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Author Topic: Show deletion count of self-moderated topics.  (Read 1599 times)
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March 20, 2014, 05:54:23 AM
 #1

Self moderated topics have the warning at the top:

Quote
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic.

One thing that may be of interest to someone reading such a topic would be to know some objective marker of how many posts were deleted that they can then make their own judgements about how reliable the content in it is. A simple change like this would be helpful:


Quote
This is a self-moderated topic with 230 of 400 posts deleted. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic.

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March 20, 2014, 08:26:15 AM
 #2

While the idea in general is fine, it doesn't really tell you anything about why the posts were removed.  Take the recent example of a manufacturer from a certain country, and somebody having a general and deeply entrenched issue with that country in general coming in spamming the thread with their wholly off-topic posts.

Just showing "with 8 out of 20 posts deleted" might give the impression the author (actually, the mods in this case*) is silencing critics of the company, or the product, or whatever rather than just having dealt with spam/troll/off-topicness.

* I can only hope SMF has a differentiation between topic-starter deletions and mod deletions internally Smiley

How do we create self moderated topics (sorry for being off-topic)
When you start a new topic, expand the "Additional options..." below the post text field, and look for "Self-moderated".  Note that you can only set this on creation (so you can't make a thread self-moderated after the fact), and it is not available in all sub-forums.  E.g. it's not available in 'Other > Meta', but it is available in 'Bitcoin > Development & Technical Discussion'

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March 20, 2014, 08:41:39 AM
 #3

While the idea in general is fine, it doesn't really tell you anything about why the posts were removed. 
Indeed, and I'm aware of the threads you speak of, but it is completely objective which absolves the forum moderators of any responsibility and once set up is zero maintenance effort.

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March 20, 2014, 08:56:08 AM
 #4

Of course the information is objective - but psychology rarely is Smiley

"with N out of M posts deleted"
'Don't trust OP! Look at this: "with N out of M posts deleted", lol! SCAMMER with something to hide!'
...
"with N+1 out of M posts deleted"

Wink

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March 20, 2014, 09:16:17 AM
 #5

Of course the information is objective - but psychology rarely is Smiley

"with N out of M posts deleted"
'Don't trust OP! Look at this: "with N out of M posts deleted", lol! SCAMMER with something to hide!'
...
"with N+1 out of M posts deleted"

Wink
I'm more than well aware of its limitations. Are you suggesting it's not worth adding though?

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March 20, 2014, 09:22:27 AM
 #6

I think to have started a tiny little revolution Smiley
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #rZ4M31bk6bc0SvQe

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
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March 20, 2014, 09:25:14 AM
 #7

While we're at it, theoretically one could just choose "enable display of deleted posts" as a feature as well, leaving all subjectivity out of the moderators' responsibility.

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March 20, 2014, 09:54:54 AM
 #8

Of course the information is objective - but psychology rarely is Smiley

"with N out of M posts deleted"
'Don't trust OP! Look at this: "with N out of M posts deleted", lol! SCAMMER with something to hide!'
...
"with N+1 out of M posts deleted"

Wink
I'm more than well aware of its limitations. Are you suggesting it's not worth adding though?

To be honest - this will be a solution that goes from one extreme to the other.

IMHO - The fact that there is a notice that the topic is self-moderated is sufficient.

Knowing how many posts were moderated is irrelevant. It is actually more misleading than helpful. It can also be more damaging than helpful - you could easily get a few people exploiting that and trying to cause harm and defamation.

In other words - I don't see any benefit of knowing the number of deleted posts. As soon as you see the notice you already know that this number could be more than zero.

If anyone is really that bored to do such changes I would rather suggest that this notice be in a bit bigger letters and maybe bold and/or red color (so that it is really obvious!).

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March 20, 2014, 09:55:33 AM
 #9

I'm more than well aware of its limitations. Are you suggesting it's not worth adding though?
No, I think it's worth adding - I'm just not entirely convinced whether it would have the desired effect.  Only way to find out is to try Smiley

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March 20, 2014, 10:08:50 AM
 #10

Of course the information is objective - but psychology rarely is Smiley

"with N out of M posts deleted"
'Don't trust OP! Look at this: "with N out of M posts deleted", lol! SCAMMER with something to hide!'
...
"with N+1 out of M posts deleted"

Wink
I'm more than well aware of its limitations. Are you suggesting it's not worth adding though?

To be honest - this will be a solution that goes from one extreme to the other.

IMHO - The fact that there is a notice that the topic is self-moderated is sufficient.

Knowing how many posts were moderated is irrelevant. It is actually more misleading than helpful. It can also be more damaging than helpful - you could easily get a few people exploiting that and trying to cause harm and defamation.

In other words - I don't see any benefit of knowing the number of deleted posts. As soon as you see the notice you already know that this number could be more than zero.

If anyone is really that bored to do such changes I would rather suggest that this notice be in a bit bigger letters and maybe bold and/or red color (so that it is really obvious!).
Can't see how adding this information is helpful if they're also given the option:

While we're at it, theoretically one could just choose "enable display of deleted posts" as a feature as well, leaving all subjectivity out of the moderators' responsibility.

Then if they're sceptical, they can see for themselves.

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March 20, 2014, 11:39:48 AM
 #11

At first I thought it could be a good idea, but it doesn't really tell us much and could even give the wrong impression. Maybe the posts that are deleted/self-moderated by the op should actually just be 'hidden' and other people can choose to view/unhide them and make their own mind up. Self-moderation is good for deleting spam and/or harassment, but it's mostly just used by petty tyrants who like to police people.

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March 20, 2014, 01:16:55 PM
 #12

i suggest that deleted posts should have a sign left too like "xxx deleted a post"

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March 23, 2014, 05:01:50 PM
 #13

Great idea !
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March 23, 2014, 05:20:17 PM
 #14

It will definitely be implemented in this version or the next in the new software currently being developed.
Great idea!
You are developing it?
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March 26, 2014, 01:11:09 AM
 #15

I think this would be great. Maybe we should also be able to see the deleted posts!

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March 26, 2014, 03:31:32 AM
 #16

Simply, dont allow self moderated topics in marketplace, selfmoderated topics are fine as long as money isn't involved.
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March 26, 2014, 03:49:23 AM
 #17

Simply, dont allow self moderated topics in marketplace, selfmoderated topics are fine as long as money isn't involved.
Companies announcing hardware, software being announced, potential scams, trojans, viruses, unhappy customers being silenced, protocol development discussions... there's a lot more going on than just marketplace where there is potential for abuse of self moderation.

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March 26, 2014, 04:00:43 AM
 #18

Simply, dont allow self moderated topics in marketplace, selfmoderated topics are fine as long as money isn't involved.
Companies announcing hardware, software being announced, potential scams, trojans, viruses, unhappy customers being silenced, protocol development discussions... there's a lot more going on than just marketplace where there is potential for abuse of self moderation.

Hmm, then admin should remove it completely. Censorship isn't good.
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March 26, 2014, 04:45:21 AM
 #19

I would disallow "self moderated" topics altogether, or at least disallow lower rank members from starting one.
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March 26, 2014, 05:17:36 AM
 #20

I would disallow "self moderated" topics altogether, or at least disallow lower rank members from starting one.

Having been on both sides of the equation I would strongly disagree with removing them completely.

"Self Moderated" threads are a very good solution and a compromise between a clean thread, threads with some criticism and abuse. And in the alternative - whining to the administrators to remove abusing posts.

We are already seeing threads that were spun off in response to someone getting moderated in another thread. So those that don't want to be moderated do have their option.
In addition, people who subscribe to email updates already get the original post even if it subsequently gets deleted.

I guess adding an option to display deleted posts is another middle ground - at least that way there is also the option to quote a deleted comment in another thread.

As for adding some conditions for people in order to open such a thread - I don't see what's the point for that. It is really not a big deal to post 50 spam posts in some other thread (and actually we would be provoking such a behavior if we did that).

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