Paranoid about anonymity

[o_e_l_e_o]

But to the contrary, I don't use a VPN since I am really not willing to hide what I am doing to my ISP provider.

Can I ask why not? I don't know which country you are based in, but the majority of ISPs the world over keep tabs on what their customers are doing, which sites they are visiting, etc. Using a VPN which isn't linked to your real identity in any way (and therefore paid for in thoroughly anonymized bitcoin) is a good way to prevent this if you don't want to use Tor.

No problem if you share your information with the genuine organization that secures your data safely.

It is impossible to know which organization are "genuine" and will store your data securely. Once your data is on their servers, you have no idea who has access to it, who they can share it with, the physical security of their servers, the digital security of their servers, how they encrypt it, how they store it, how they transfer it, etc., etc. Even "reputable" companies like Binance and Coinbase have leaked user data. There is always a risk when you complete KYC.

[1714708087]

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[1714708087]

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[slackovic]

But to the contrary, I don't use a VPN since I am really not willing to hide what I am doing to my ISP provider.

Can I ask why not? I don't know which country you are based in, but the majority of ISPs the world over keep tabs on what their customers are doing, which sites they are visiting, etc. Using a VPN which isn't linked to your real identity in any way (and therefore paid for in thoroughly anonymized bitcoin) is a good way to prevent this if you don't want to use Tor.

I personally don't use VPN to stay anonymous simply because I don't trust that VPN company won't keep logs of who am I and of my activity. True, there are bunch of them saying they don't keep logs, but who says they won't give everything to the authorities once they come knocking on their doors?

I only recently found out that Brave browser has integrated private browsing using Tor network. Did anyone try it? It looks like a really easy way to browse the Internet using Tor network.

[NavI_027]

Of course, everyone care about their own security/privacy but some think what could possibly go wrong?. They have the "Nah, I'm just surfing the internet so I guess there is nothing to lose" kind of mindset. Well, that's understandable tho because not all of us are aware of the technicallities of cybercrime. The whole stuff is so sophisticated up to extent that most of us choose to ignore it subconsciously . However, this is a bad habit and should not be tolerated. So let us all educate the others even only by means of giving simple advice, we don't need to be computer experts to do that .

I only recently found out that Brave browser has integrated private browsing using Tor network. Did anyone try it? It looks like a really easy way to browse the Internet using Tor network.

That feature is only available for PC/laptop users, isn't it? I used the mobile version for quite a long time  already and yet I am not aware of it.

[slackovic]

Of course, everyone care about their own security/privacy but some think what could possibly go wrong?. They have the "Nah, I'm just surfing the internet so I guess there is nothing to lose" kind of mindset. Well, that's understandable tho because not all of us are aware of the technicallities of cybercrime. The whole stuff is so sophisticated up to extent that most of us choose to ignore it subconsciously . However, this is a bad habit and should not be tolerated. So let us all educate the others even only by means of giving simple advice, we don't need to be computer experts to do that .

I only recently found out that Brave browser has integrated private browsing using Tor network. Did anyone try it? It looks like a really easy way to browse the Internet using Tor network.

Well, I hope that Brave browser will become most popular browser because it has intergrated surfing trough Tor network. I think that's enough privacy and anonymity for most people.

That feature is only available for PC/laptop users, isn't it? I used the mobile version for quite a long time  already and yet I am not aware of it.

You are right! It seems like this feature is only available to Windows users. I also don't know if this feature is available for macOS and Linux versions. I hope they will enable this feature for everyone because it's the easiest way to stay anonymous on the Internet.

[slackovic]

I only recently found out that Brave browser has integrated private browsing using Tor network. Did anyone try it? It looks like a really easy way to browse the Internet using Tor network.

Tor integration on Brave Browser is far from perfect, which makes de anonymization is far easier.

You are probably right. I think they did it like that so that ordinary people can easily use it. The problem is will that give non-technical person false hope that he is surfing completely anonymous? Because if it's easy to de-anonymize, then what's the point, right?

You are right! It seems like this feature is only available to Windows users. I also don't know if this feature is available for macOS and Linux versions. I hope they will enable this feature for everyone because it's the easiest way to stay anonymous on the Internet.

No idea about Mac OS, but i couldn't find option on Linux. But those who use Linux should be able to download and install Tor Browser instead.

The whole idea is to have everything in one browser. When anonymity is not important, then you can use regular browsing. But when anonymity is important, you can simply switch to surfing trough the Tor newtork.

[Heisenberg_Hunter]

Can I ask why not? I don't know which country you are based in, but the majority of ISPs the world over keep tabs on what their customers are doing, which sites they are visiting, etc. Using a VPN which isn't linked to your real identity in any way (and therefore paid for in thoroughly anonymized bitcoin) is a good way to prevent this if you don't want to use Tor.

I was both a TOR user and a VPN user a few years back. In the country where I live in currently, there aren't much exposure towards bitcoin and I could say around 75% of the citizens residing over here aren't aware of the term digital currency or bitcoin. But truly speaking this isn't the only reason why I don't use VPN. I download and upload decent chunks of data all the month with the cumulative rate reaching over 1.5 TB+ and my current ISP provides over a seamless 150-200 Mbps speed which isn't truly achievable with the VPN providers. Each time I should be logging off and on the VPN which had become cumbersome over time.

Apart from this I was initially using TOR for connecting bitcointalk in 2018 and connecting through TOR was problematic with the captcha issues prevailing back then. However theymos came up with the captcha bypass solution but I am certainly used to this normal logging behavior. When there does seem to be good exposure towards bitcoin from my country citizens I might be thinking of a way to use bitcointalk through TOR or by using VPN.

[o_e_l_e_o]

I personally don't use VPN to stay anonymous simply because I don't trust that VPN company won't keep logs of who am I and of my activity.

Your ISP definitely keeps logs of everything you do, and they are linked to your real name and address. At least with good VPNs you can sign up anonymously and pay in anonymized bitcoin.

-snip-

I used VPNs and Tor a long time before I used bitcoin. I am much more concerned about blanket surveillance by governments and large corporations than I am about people finding out I own bitcoin. If speed is an issue then I would shop around - you should be able to find one that only gives you a 2-3% speed reduction.

[slackovic]

I personally don't use VPN to stay anonymous simply because I don't trust that VPN company won't keep logs of who am I and of my activity.

Your ISP definitely keeps logs of everything you do, and they are linked to your real name and address. At least with good VPNs you can sign up anonymously and pay in anonymized bitcoin.

True. But I don't mind my ISP keeping track of what I do online. When I will mind that, I will use Tor browser to stay anonymous.

But the problem with anonymity is that you have to be very careful what you are doing when browsing anonymous. It takes one tiny mistake to disclose your identity. You can make 999 correct steps to avoid being identified and then you make one mistake (like entering your phone number or any other personal data) and your anonymity is gone...

[o_e_l_e_o]

True. But I don't mind my ISP keeping track of what I do online. When I will mind that, I will use Tor browser to stay anonymous.

So if you don't trust the VPN company with logs of what you are doing online, why do you trust your ISP with logs of what you are doing online, especially considering the ISP know your real name and address whereas a good VPN company would not?

It takes one tiny mistake to disclose your identity. You can make 999 correct steps to avoid being identified and then you make one mistake (like entering your phone number or any other personal data) and your anonymity is gone...

That's not an argument for giving up on anonymity before you've even begun. Quite the opposite, in fact - it's an argument for taking extra care at all times. It only takes one tiny mistake to crash your car and cause multiple fatalities. That doesn't mean we should all drive with our eyes closed.

[Eplus_Team]

The right to privacy is not just for criminals. Its very important to protect yourself. To anonymize your BTC transactions you can use Samurei Wallet or Wasabi wallet for example

[slackovic]

True. But I don't mind my ISP keeping track of what I do online. When I will mind that, I will use Tor browser to stay anonymous.

So if you don't trust the VPN company with logs of what you are doing online, why do you trust your ISP with logs of what you are doing online, especially considering the ISP know your real name and address whereas a good VPN company would not?

I'm saying that I wouldn't trust VPN companies that say they don't keep logs of what their users are doing online if I wanted to stay anonymous. I would rather use Tor network which is free.

It takes one tiny mistake to disclose your identity. You can make 999 correct steps to avoid being identified and then you make one mistake (like entering your phone number or any other personal data) and your anonymity is gone...

That's not an argument for giving up on anonymity before you've even begun. Quite the opposite, in fact - it's an argument for taking extra care at all times. It only takes one tiny mistake to crash your car and cause multiple fatalities. That doesn't mean we should all drive with our eyes closed.

You are comparing totally different things. When I'm surfing anonymous and I make a mistake, it doesn't hurt me or anyone else. It reveals my identity, but it doesn't hurt me or anyone else. And when I'm driving my car without being careful, I'm danger to myself and others on the road.

[o_e_l_e_o]

I'm saying that I wouldn't trust VPN companies that say they don't keep logs of what their users are doing online if I wanted to stay anonymous. I would rather use Tor network which is free.

Tor is obviously the better choice if anonymity is your goal, as a VPN does not give you anonymity by any means. But saying that you don't trust VPN providers not to keep logs but you have no problem with your ISP keeping logs seems a bit backwards to me.

When I'm surfing anonymous and I make a mistake, it doesn't hurt me or anyone else. It reveals my identity, but it doesn't hurt me or anyone else.

That depends entirely on your risk model and what you are doing online. There are plenty of people around the world whose lives would be at risk if their online activities were linked to their real world identities. Just because you have no need or desire for complete anonymity doesn't mean that others share that view.

[slackovic]

I'm saying that I wouldn't trust VPN companies that say they don't keep logs of what their users are doing online if I wanted to stay anonymous. I would rather use Tor network which is free.

Tor is obviously the better choice if anonymity is your goal, as a VPN does not give you anonymity by any means. But saying that you don't trust VPN providers not to keep logs but you have no problem with your ISP keeping logs seems a bit backwards to me.

As I said earlier, I don't have any problem my ISP keeping logs about my online activity because when I don't use VPN or Tor, I don't need anonymity. Besides, my ISP never said that they don't keep logs about my online activity. Everyone knows that ISPs are keeping logs about their users activity. The problem is when VPN service is advertising that they don't keep logs, but they do. Trust me. They have to protect themselves when authorities come knocking on their doors.

When I'm surfing anonymous and I make a mistake, it doesn't hurt me or anyone else. It reveals my identity, but it doesn't hurt me or anyone else.

That depends entirely on your risk model and what you are doing online. There are plenty of people around the world whose lives would be at risk if their online activities were linked to their real world identities. Just because you have no need or desire for complete anonymity doesn't mean that others share that view.

I never said that no one needs anonymity. I know there is a lot of people who would be at great risk if they wouldn't be anonymous online. I said that I personally don't need anonymity because I live in a relatively free country where I don't have to watch what I'm writing. And I'm not doing anything illegal to be

[20kevin20]

Personal opinion: there doesn't even need to be the desire/need to hide from anyone. It's just that we should stop letting them take our intimacy away. Why let anyone, be it the ISP, VPN or whoever else know what you're doing on the internet? I'm sure you'd mind if I knew every time you entered a website and all your internet traffic even if I told you and you knew that I wouldn't harm you in any direct/indirect way. Why let someone else?

I don't know, it should bother us all how much we're being used and how our own, personal thoughts, ideas and information are all being sold by the people we pay on a monthly basis. Take a look at this article: https://www.experian.com/blogs/ask-experian/heres-how-much-your-personal-information-is-selling-for-on-the-dark-web/

Who can assure you that your ISP 100% does not take your information and sell it on the dark web/black markets anonymously?

You don't need to be a criminal. You don't need to have something to hide. You only need to prevent yourself from being another product for the companies you pay.

~
I never said that no one needs anonymity. I know there is a lot of people who would be at great risk if they wouldn't be anonymous online. I said that I personally don't need anonymity because I live in a relatively free country where I don't have to watch what I'm writing. And I'm not doing anything illegal to be

Oh man, that's just in your own mind. I'm from a theoretically "relatively-free" country too. Freedom is only a relative world, it's imaginary. If you think it from more perspectives, you aren't really free. You're part of a society that submits to their own government. I don't know which country you are from, but take a look at countries locked down due to the pandemic. This is how fast "freedom" can vanish. Within one speech and a few pieces of paper, it's gone.

You don't have to watch what you're writing but someone else watches it for you and it may turn against you at any time. Consider me paranoid, this is basically a debate between someone who wants to have their own intimacy and someone who doesn't give a damn right now about their own data being sold and transferred to intelligence agencies and whoever else at all times!

[slackovic]

Personal opinion: there doesn't even need to be the desire/need to hide from anyone. It's just that we should stop letting them take our intimacy away. Why let anyone, be it the ISP, VPN or whoever else know what you're doing on the internet? I'm sure you'd mind if I knew every time you entered a website and all your internet traffic even if I told you and you knew that I wouldn't harm you in any direct/indirect way. Why let someone else?

I don't know, it should bother us all how much we're being used and how our own, personal thoughts, ideas and information are all being sold by the people we pay on a monthly basis. Take a look at this article: https://www.experian.com/blogs/ask-experian/heres-how-much-your-personal-information-is-selling-for-on-the-dark-web/

Who can assure you that your ISP 100% does not take your information and sell it on the dark web/black markets anonymously?

You don't need to be a criminal. You don't need to have something to hide. You only need to prevent yourself from being another product for the companies you pay.

~
I never said that no one needs anonymity. I know there is a lot of people who would be at great risk if they wouldn't be anonymous online. I said that I personally don't need anonymity because I live in a relatively free country where I don't have to watch what I'm writing. And I'm not doing anything illegal to be

Oh man, that's just in your own mind. I'm from a theoretically "relatively-free" country too. Freedom is only a relative world, it's imaginary. If you think it from more perspectives, you aren't really free. You're part of a society that submits to their own government. I don't know which country you are from, but take a look at countries locked down due to the pandemic. This is how fast "freedom" can vanish. Within one speech and a few pieces of paper, it's gone.

You don't have to watch what you're writing but someone else watches it for you and it may turn against you at any time. Consider me paranoid, this is basically a debate between someone who wants to have their own intimacy and someone who doesn't give a damn right now about their own data being sold and transferred to intelligence agencies and whoever else at all times!

OK, let me ask you one thing. Are you surfing trough the Tor network right all the time? Because, any other form of anonymity (like a VPN service) is you trusting someone else they won't give logs about your activity to someone else, and you are paying them for that. And how's that different from what I'm doing (surfing without a VPN service or without Tor)?

True, you can pay for a VPN service with cryptocurrency, even a private one like Monero. But as I said earlier, it takes one tiny mistake to reveal your identity as the owner of the wallet that you used to pay for the VPN.

[o_e_l_e_o]

The problem is when VPN service is advertising that they don't keep logs, but they do. Trust me. They have to protect themselves when authorities come knocking on their doors.

I mean, I don't disagree with your stance about not trusting VPN providers, but there are plenty of examples of providers who have been subpoenaed or another jurisdiction's equivalent and had to prove in a court that they had no logs to hand over.

I said that I personally don't need anonymity because I live in a relatively free country where I don't have to watch what I'm writing. And I'm not doing anything illegal to be

The only reason you don't have to watch what you are writing is because you haven't written anything your government disagrees with. Write something they view as "extreme" enough and it won't be long before they come knocking at your door. That is the whole point of the surveillance states that are being set up the world over - to make you scared to step out of line:

No matter the specific techniques involved, historically mass surveillance has had several constant attributes. Initially, it is always the country’s dissidents and marginalized who bear the brunt of the surveillance, leading those who support the government or are merely apathetic to mistakenly believe they are immune. And history shows that the mere existence of a mass surveillance apparatus, regardless of how it is used, is in itself sufficient to stifle dissent. A citizenry that is aware of always being watched quickly becomes a compliant and fearful one.”

Because, any other form of anonymity (like a VPN service)

A VPN won't make you anonymous, and is not designed to.

[BayAngelo]

i am Nigerian. our government doesn't work with data. they have no functional database that provide an accurate figure of the country population. been anonymous isn't a huge deal when it come to tax evasion. exposing your identity on the web will definitely cause harm to you if you are a prominent figure here. i don't think there is other thing that can cause problem here.

[slackovic]

I said that I personally don't need anonymity because I live in a relatively free country where I don't have to watch what I'm writing. And I'm not doing anything illegal to be

The only reason you don't have to watch what you are writing is because you haven't written anything your government disagrees with. Write something they view as "extreme" enough and it won't be long before they come knocking at your door. That is the whole point of the surveillance states that are being set up the world over - to make you scared to step out of line:

No matter the specific techniques involved, historically mass surveillance has had several constant attributes. Initially, it is always the country’s dissidents and marginalized who bear the brunt of the surveillance, leading those who support the government or are merely apathetic to mistakenly believe they are immune. And history shows that the mere existence of a mass surveillance apparatus, regardless of how it is used, is in itself sufficient to stifle dissent. A citizenry that is aware of always being watched quickly becomes a compliant and fearful one.”

The part in bold is true. And that's why I said that I personally don't need anonymity when I'm online. But I'm glad that I have the option to surf online anonymously if I ever need that.

[ololajulo]

I've been finding ways to reduced identifiable or traceable data back to my identity. My question is: Is it worth taking care of anonymity too much, even if I won't be using cryptos for any illegal matters?

It depends if you are ready to pay tax in the future or not...

In some countries it is dangerous to try keep your income from the government because of Tax, lately the USA government plan to send some country men out of the country if they dont pay tax, you will lose a lot if detected. I dont think the anonymity in cryptocurrency is to prevent tax payment. Is better to get informed early and prepare the tax payment process before spending, or rather till after bullrun if you are a longtime investor, to take profit in fiat and do other things with the rest.

[Velkro]

My question is: Is it worth taking care of anonymity too much, even if I won't be using cryptos for any illegal matters?

I think that it is. In modern times, people throw away their privacy so easily its crazy. We talk about not only facebook but instagram and all other social media. Not everyone will suffer consequences of that behaviour but some will. Why risk that? Why sharing my poop time, my food, my activities? Its same in terms of crypto or FIAT money.