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Author Topic: Paranoid about anonymity  (Read 269 times)
bitcoiners98
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March 26, 2020, 07:20:12 AM
Merited by o_e_l_e_o (1), 20kevin20 (1)
 #1

I've been finding ways to reduced identifiable or traceable data back to my identity. My question is: Is it worth taking care of anonymity too much, even if I won't be using cryptos for any illegal matters?
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March 26, 2020, 07:35:54 AM
 #2

I've been finding ways to reduced identifiable or traceable data back to my identity. My question is: Is it worth taking care of anonymity too much, even if I won't be using cryptos for any illegal matters?

It depends if you are ready to pay tax in the future or not...

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March 26, 2020, 07:53:13 AM
 #3

This is vague question, but if you actually care about your anonymity, then it is worth to take care/manage your anonymity.

On a side note, even if you don't do anything illegal, you will face trouble if your government is tyranny or dictator.

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March 26, 2020, 08:04:51 AM
Last edit: March 26, 2020, 02:33:00 PM by Jawhead999
Merited by 1miau (2), hosseinimr93 (1), o_e_l_e_o (1), DdmrDdmr (1)
 #4

Is it worth taking care of anonymity too much, even if I won't be using cryptos for any illegal matters?

Yeah it's very worth to taking care of our anonymity even if you don't using for illegal things.

There are many problem if you give your KYC to other people or any website, such as :
1. Using / giving personal information can attract criminal to hack your account. Usually many account only make password from his personal information, like his full name, born day, or maybe email. With your personal information they can using that's data to try hacking your account

2. Imagine if you already giving your KYC for untrusted or scam project. This project can use your personal information to make a new project and scamming other people money or any illegal purpose. After they successfully scamming people, they will run with the money, and you can get caught by police or FBI

There also another thread explain about Why KYC is extremely dangerous – and useless

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March 26, 2020, 08:07:52 AM
 #5

If you care about your anonymity, you care about your personal information. If it worths or not caring about it it's only up to you. If you don't mind that many entities may know your personal data, go ahead and be careless. But, in my opinion, that would be a huge mistake. Your personal information should be personal.

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March 26, 2020, 08:13:44 AM
Merited by 1miau (2), o_e_l_e_o (1), DdmrDdmr (1)
 #6

I'd like to bring up one extra point in favour of as much anonimity as you can get:

What if someone bad knows you hold x BTC (or any altcoin). He knows crypto seedphrases are seldomly kept in a bankvault at the bank, but usually reside somewhere in your home. I wouldn't want somebody with a big baseball bat waking me up demanding the seedphrase of my wallet and threatening to hurt my daughter or my wife if i don't comply.

KYC-exchange's databases get hacked on a weekly basis. If you don't cover your tracks, it's only a matter of time before some criminal close to you gets his hands on your address AND is able to track that you've withdrawn all your funds from the hacked exchange to the same wallet, and the funds never moved again... So he'll be able to conclude you hold x amount of euro's or dollars worth of crypto coins... Nothing is stopping him from using this info to rob you (violently if needs to be... He needs to find a piece of paper with some words scrabbled onto them, or he needs a password or pin to unlock your wallet... You need to be awake and afraid to give this info to him).

If you try to give your KYC info to as little actors as humanly possible, and always use a mixer/coinjoin/anon coin to hide your tracks, it'll be a lot harder for a criminal to get your address... And if he has your address he won't know how much crypto you hold, so he has no clue if it's beneficial to rob you, or if it's a waste of time...

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March 26, 2020, 08:20:06 AM
 #7

Is it worth taking care of anonymity too much, even if I won't be using cryptos for any illegal matters?[/b]
If you don't use it for any illegal purpose and you don't care about paying taxes, I think this will be fine, you don't need to worry about it. Typically, cryptocurrencies will be used for large transactions and for dealing with people with geographical distance, this will reduce transaction waiting time as well as avoid taxes and fees. But any transaction used for tax avoidance is illegal, meaning you have to remain anonymous.

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March 26, 2020, 11:40:54 AM
Last edit: March 29, 2020, 05:13:58 AM by o_e_l_e_o
Merited by 1miau (2), mocacinno (1), DdmrDdmr (1)
 #8

Is it worth taking care of anonymity too much, even if I won't be using cryptos for any illegal matters?
Of course it is. Privacy should be a fundamental human right, and you shouldn't be willing to give it up just for the sake of convenience. I also do nothing illegal with my bitcoin, but I am still very careful and very strict with my privacy. Almost everyone in the world is strict with their privacy in some form or another, but for some reason all sense goes out the window when it comes to sending KYC documents to complete strangers online.

The argument that you don't need privacy if you aren't doing anything illegal is also known as the "nothing to hide, nothing to fear" argument. Essentially it says if you aren't doing anything wrong, then you have nothing to worry about if everybody and their aunt sticks their nose in to your personal and private information. Which is of course utter nonsense. If you have nothing to fear, then why not post under your real name? Why not share your real address and phone number? Why not share your email addresses and their passwords? Why not share your cloud storage accounts and their passwords? Why even have curtains on your windows? Why even wear clothes? After all, you've got nothing to hide, right?

Nonsense. It doesn't matter whether or not you have anything to hide or whether or not you are doing anything illegal. Privacy is a basic right, and you should protect it.

You might want to have a read of this topic, and my reply to it, for some more information: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5214200.0

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March 26, 2020, 12:00:25 PM
 #9

Being completely anonymous is no easy task, and requires a certain amount of knowledge with complete commitment to that goal. Let's say you use Tor, coin mixers and never give your real identity anywhere on the Internet - and then one day for some reason, make a cardinal mistake and access the Internet using your real IP address.

In this case, the whole anonymity operation becomes worthless if someone tries to locate you/find out your true identity. However, I think anyone who is somehow involved in crypto should maintain a certain level of privacy, because we are all potential targets of online hackers, but also of possible physical attacks.

There are documented cases where some people were robbed and even killed because they publicly shared information that they had a significant amount of BTC. There are far more of those who have been victims of various online attacks, quite targeted in the sense that it can be concluded that they are conducted by professional hackers searching for their victims through forums and various social networks. Therefore, it is important to keep your profiles low and not brag to your friends and acquaintances about dealing with crypto unless you like to live dangerously.

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March 26, 2020, 12:08:25 PM
 #10

Is it worth taking care of anonymity too much, even if I won't be using cryptos for any illegal matters?[/b]
If you don't use it for any illegal purpose and you don't care about paying taxes, I think this will be fine, you don't need to worry about it. Typically, cryptocurrencies will be used for large transactions and for dealing with people with geographical distance, this will reduce transaction waiting time as well as avoid taxes and fees. But any transaction used for tax avoidance is illegal, meaning you have to remain anonymous.

But there are some cases that you have to comply the requirements of your local exchange regarding KYC, you have no choice but to use them when you convert your crypto to your local fiat. Unless, you will use some P2P transactions to exchange your crypto, and this option is sometimes too risky. Maybe just submit your docs to legit merchants if you can't avoid the KYC thing.

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March 26, 2020, 12:15:28 PM
 #11

You wouldn't be doing anything illegal, that is understandable, but others will, they'll try to steal from you, take your coins, steal your information, pose with your identity and they can only be successful in all these if you are careless about your anonymity, if you care less about your privacy and present your personal data to them all because you feel you have nothing to worry about, afterall doing nothing illegal, are you?

Privacy and anonymity is so important in this modern world, even your phones, computers and other electronic gadgets are no longer devices you just alow anyone operate without bothering, there are certain information that should remain with you and just you alone, your private keys for example, would you make it available for others to see, just because you're a "clean guy"? You'll lose everything you have in that wallet if you do so.

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March 26, 2020, 12:23:41 PM
 #12

you have no choice but to use them when you convert your crypto to your local fiat. Unless, you will use some P2P transactions to exchange your crypto, and this option is sometimes too risky.
I have been using peer-to-peer exchanges for years and have never had any issues. BISQ in particular has has (as far as I am aware) a grand total of two transactions which ran in to issues with scammers performing chargebacks, and they responded by removing the implicated payment methods so this is no longer possible. Compare this to centralized exchanges which have literally thousands of reports of accounts being locked, accounts being hacked, coins being frozen, coins disappearing, coins not being credited properly, unannounced KYC requirements, KYC documents being hacked, KYC documents being sold, exit scamming, shutting down, servers being hacked, etc., etc. I would argue that centralized exchanges are far more risky than peer-to-peer ones.

Maybe just submit your docs to legit merchants if you can't avoid the KYC thing.
What would you classify as a "legit" merchant? Coinbase are probably the biggest bitcoin related company in the world. They were actively selling their customers' private information to third parties without their knowledge or consent. Binance have been hacked multiple times, both for coins and for KYC documents. Being "legit" means nothing.


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March 26, 2020, 01:24:04 PM
 #13

It depends on lots of factor. If you are a country where BTC is illegal (like me), I would say it's very much important to be untraceable. Anytime government may start investigation and you will find youself in heavy trouble.
Moreover, it's always better to not share your public holding. As someone else pointed that yoy may become a target of criminal which we have seen couple of times before too. However, if you are using crypto for no purpose than paying someone which isn't illegal, there's no need of such much anonymity.

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March 26, 2020, 01:38:32 PM
 #14

Who are you to be in the need to be anonymous.

A spy? a dissident? or something else. If yes then it's recommanded.

If not and you live a normal life I wouldn't recommand it to you. Because you will end up paying more taxes the day they will find about you. And they always catch you.
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March 26, 2020, 01:48:18 PM
Merited by o_e_l_e_o (2), 1miau (2)
 #15

Who are you to be in the need to be anonymous.

A spy? a dissident? or something else. If yes then it's recommanded.

If not and you live a normal life I wouldn't recommand it to you. Because you will end up paying more taxes the day they will find about you. And they always catch you.

If you think those are the only usecases for privacy ( being a spy or being a dissident) you won't mind if i ask you the following privacy-invading info:
  • Your name
  • Your address
  • Your phone number
  • Your birthdate
  • How much money is in your wallet right now, where did you get it and where are you going to spend this money
  • The complete list of your bank account numbers and a big record of all transactions made to/from these bank accounts
  • A list of valuable items in your house

Will you give me the answers? No? I tought so... You'd have to be really careless if you'd answer these questions...
Why woudn't you give me an anwer to these questions: simple: because this would invade your privacy, and they put you at risk for being robbed. It's nobody's business who you are, how much money you have and where it's stored... Why would you make an exception for digital cash?
If you give away your KYC info to anybody, and you don't mix/coinjoin your coins, anybody will potentially know who you are and how much funds you hold... Not an ideal situation.

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March 26, 2020, 02:31:02 PM
 #16

If you think those are the only usecases for privacy ( being a spy or being a dissident) you won't mind if i ask you the following privacy-invading info:
  • Your name
  • Your address
  • Your phone number
  • Your birthdate
  • How much money is in your wallet right now, where did you get it and where are you going to spend this money
  • The complete list of your bank account numbers and a big record of all transactions made to/from these bank accounts
  • A list of valuable items in your house

Fun fact:

There are people who are paranoid about anonymity, but share all their life on social media platforms like facebook. They scream about how it is dangerous to pass basic KYC, while making, for example, a selfie for facebook/instagram with new 65`TV with a comment "how good it is to have a salary and birthday at the same day"  Smiley

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March 26, 2020, 02:43:54 PM
 #17

However, if you are using crypto for no purpose than paying someone which isn't illegal, there's no need of such much anonymity.
Nonsense. Do you browse any illegal sites online? If the answer is no, surely then you will have no problem posting your entire internet browsing history on your Facebook page for everyone you know to examine? You just said so yourself - you aren't doing anything illegal, so there is no need for privacy. Why do you post on this forum under an alias and not your real name? By your own logic, the fact you are trying to hide your real name can only mean you must be trying to do things which are illegal, right?

Because you will end up paying more taxes the day they will find about you.
What has paying taxes got to do with anything? If you are worried about the tax man catching up with you, then simply pay all the taxes you owe. This changes nothing about why you should maintain your privacy.

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March 26, 2020, 02:50:53 PM
 #18

you have no choice but to use them when you convert your crypto to your local fiat. Unless, you will use some P2P transactions to exchange your crypto, and this option is sometimes too risky.
I have been using peer-to-peer exchanges for years and have never had any issues. BISQ in particular has has (as far as I am aware) a grand total of two transactions which ran in to issues with scammers performing chargebacks, and they responded by removing the implicated payment methods so this is no longer possible. Compare this to centralized exchanges which have literally thousands of reports of accounts being locked, accounts being hacked, coins being frozen, coins disappearing, coins not being credited properly, unannounced KYC requirements, KYC documents being hacked, KYC documents being sold, exit scamming, shutting down, servers being hacked, etc., etc. I would argue that centralized exchanges are far more risky than peer-to-peer ones.

Maybe just submit your docs to legit merchants if you can't avoid the KYC thing.
What would you classify as a "legit" merchant? Coinbase are probably the biggest bitcoin related company in the world. They were actively selling their customers' private information to third parties without their knowledge or consent. Binance have been hacked multiple times, both for coins and for KYC documents. Being "legit" means nothing.



That's the problem that I am thinking about. What if in my country there is no p2p exchange!?, what if I can only convert my crypto to local fiat on a centralized exchange that requires KYC!? what the solution!? explanation please! anyone!
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March 26, 2020, 04:27:43 PM
Merited by o_e_l_e_o (1), 1miau (1)
 #19

3 angle, where are you from? There are probably a few decentralized exchanges from your area that allows you to trade crypto to fiat that you are not yet aware of.

Check out the list of P2P exchanges https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/dyclf8/list_of_bitcoin_persontoperson_p2p_bitcoin/
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March 26, 2020, 06:05:59 PM
 #20

I've been finding ways to reduced identifiable or traceable data back to my identity. My question is: Is it worth taking care of anonymity too much, even if I won't be using cryptos for any illegal matters?

You never know when some weirdo on the internet will start targeting you for things they’ve made up in their delusional minds due to their own miserable lives. Restricting what you let be known about yourself can protect you from other users’ mental illness, even if you aren’t involved in anything illegal.

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