I'm just mad at chipmixer team

[pocketmoney]

I'm just mad at chipmixer team because it's the second time they gave me unconfirmed chips. Why the hell on earth did you do this?

Just imagine that I sweep a private key, which occurs to be unconfirmed and it's parent tx has damn 3 sat/b fee! So now I have to wait uncertain amount of time while a 3 sat/b tx will get a confirmation in a 83MB mempool! What the f*ck?!

Chipmixer, you do not have to give clients unconfirmed private keys goddamnit!!!

EDIT: changed the title

Mr. Big

[1714879835]

1714879835

[1714879835]

1714879835

[stomachgrowls]

I'm just mad at chipmixer team because it's the second time they gave me unconfirmed chips. Why the hell on earth did you do this?

Just imagine that I sweep a private key, which occurs to be unconfirmed and it's parent tx has damn 3 sat/b fee! So now I have to wait uncertain amount of time while a 3 sat/b tx will get a confirmation in a 83MB mempool! What the f*ck?!

Chipmixer, you do not have to give clients unconfirmed private keys goddamnit!!!

Why not try to contact them?

chipmixer@protonmail.com
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1003345

Cant say much or cant give advise about mixing matters yet im not that too familiar with.

[hulla]

Firstly, this post is not in the right section.
Second, you don't need to panic cause you'll get back your fund but I'm surprised with your calm because the record of the mixing company you mentioned is outstanding and i will advise you to contact the details provided by the used above
Hope your session token are intact.

[JeromeTash]

Have you contacted their and they ignored your complaint?
There is no need to spit fire yet the support could provide you a viable solution on your current issue. It's a major problem, bitcoin network fees have been high of late and therefore most systems/platforms have been affected especially if they are not using a regularly updated fee price.

Please first contact them

[posi]

Have you contacted their and they ignored your complaint?
There is no need to spit fire yet the support could provide you a viable solution on your current issue. It's a major problem, bitcoin network fees have been high of late and therefore most systems/platforms have been affected especially if they are not using a regularly updated fee price.

Please first contact them

As it was said before,i dont theres need for the OP to panic after all it already weekend and most of low fee transactions have the chance to be confirmed but it the reason behind the tx fee is because the company service is cheap than most mixing companies which didnt provide genuine service.

[Pffrt]

Firstly, this post is not in the right section.
Second, you don't need to panic cause you'll get back your fund but I'm surprised with your calm because the record of the mixing company you mentioned is outstanding and i will advise you to contact the details provided by the used above
Hope your session token are intact.

It's not about getting your coin 100%. With unconfirmed tx, OP either have to wait for the tx to get confirmed or pay huge fee to cover the input's fee which would be more expensive for him.
I don't think contacting with Chipmixer would make any sense in such a case. It may not be a problem from Chipmixer side too as on recent time, fee fluctuations is more common.

[bitmover]

I'm just mad at chipmixer team because it's the second time they gave me unconfirmed chips. Why the hell on earth did you do this?

The network is very congested now. I think you can give them some time. Which fee did they use for the chips?

Relax, chipmixer has  a good reputation and I believe you will have access to your coins in no time.

[RapTarX]

I'm just mad at chipmixer team because it's the second time they gave me unconfirmed chips. Why the hell on earth did you do this?

The network is very congested now. I think you can give them some time. Which fee did they use for the chips?

Relax, chipmixer has  a good reputation and I believe you will have access to your coins in no time.

OP already has said that it's 3 sat/byte, I guess it's too low considering the current mempool. Since ChipMixer is a reputed one in this business, I guess nothing to be worried, however, they shouldn't have give someone such a input in this congested situation.

[DireWolfM14]

I'm just mad at chipmixer team because it's the second time they gave me unconfirmed chips. Why the hell on earth did you do this?

Just imagine that I sweep a private key, which occurs to be unconfirmed and it's parent tx has damn 3 sat/b fee! So now I have to wait uncertain amount of time while a 3 sat/b tx will get a confirmation in a 83MB mempool! What the f*ck?!

Chipmixer, you do not have to give clients unconfirmed private keys goddamnit!!!

You can still sweep or spend the funds from that private key, even if the funding transaction isn't confirmed.  If you sweep the key and apply a high fee to your transaction, the parent transaction will very likely get confirmed faster.  It's known as "Child-Pays-For-Parent."

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4odi90/can_someone_explain_cpfp_child_pays_for_parent/  

[khaled0111]

It doesn't matter how much fees ChipMixer used or if the transaction is confirmed or not as long as you are going to sweep the private keys into a new wallet.

As suggested by DireWolfM14, make a CPFP transaction and make sure to add enough fees to get both transactions confirmed within the same block (you will have to use a wallet that allows spending unconfirmed transactions such as Electrum).
However, I tend to agree with you, ChipMixer should give only confirmed chips to avoid any inconveniences.

[RapTarX]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4odi90/can_someone_explain_cpfp_child_pays_for_parent/  

Or this one compiled by me- Child Pays For Parent

However, I tend to agree with you, ChipMixer should give only confirmed chips to avoid any inconveniences.

Mistakes happens and service providor fix that as much as possible but problem is when a reputed mixer like Chipmixer do such a mistake, it sometimes can't be accepted TBH. Using CPFP solves the problem but why would anyone take another hassle since he is using a paid service. Nevertheless, there's no way but waiting for mempool to be cleared.

[AdolfinWolf]

I'm just mad at chipmixer team because it's the second time they gave me unconfirmed chips. Why the hell on earth did you do this?

Just imagine that I sweep a private key, which occurs to be unconfirmed and it's parent tx has damn 3 sat/b fee! So now I have to wait uncertain amount of time while a 3 sat/b tx will get a confirmation in a 83MB mempool! What the f*ck?!

Chipmixer, you do not have to give clients unconfirmed private keys goddamnit!!!

You can still sweep or spend the funds from that private key, even if the funding transaction isn't confirmed.  If you sweep the key and apply a high fee to your transaction, the parent transaction will very likely get confirmed faster.  It's known as "Child-Pays-For-Parent."

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4odi90/can_someone_explain_cpfp_child_pays_for_parent/  

Not totally fair though, if that were to be Chipmixer's new standard, their mixing process would defacto no longer be "free" for people who want to mix & go / are in a hurry.

I'm inclined to agree with OP here.

Although...  ..standard practice in this case would probably be to give out vouchers, - and what's really the difference between a voucher redeemed for a chip in the near future and a "now" unconfirmed chip? not much (apart from the obvious, eg the chip never confirming..)

It doesn't matter how much fees ChipMixer used or if the transaction is confirmed or not as long as you are going to sweep the private keys into a new wallet.

As suggested by DireWolfM14, make a CPFP transaction and make sure to add enough fees to get both transactions confirmed within the same block (you will have to use a wallet that allows spending unconfirmed transactions such as Electrum).
However, I tend to agree with you, ChipMixer should give only confirmed chips to avoid any inconveniences.

See, you already contradicted yourself. Of course it matters. It would be roughly the same as a credit card company charging hidden fees. doing a CPFP, you're trading chipmixer's time for your money..
(Noted: i doubt that there is much Chipmixer can do about this very instance.)

I guess that this shouldn't really be a problem as long as it is communicated clearly.

Also, good luck CPFP'ing chipmixer transactions. They're usually HUGE.

I'm just mad at chipmixer team because it's the second time they gave me unconfirmed chips. Why the hell on earth did you do this?

Just imagine that I sweep a private key, which occurs to be unconfirmed and it's parent tx has damn 3 sat/b fee! So now I have to wait uncertain amount of time while a 3 sat/b tx will get a confirmation in a 83MB mempool! What the f*ck?!

Chipmixer, you do not have to give clients unconfirmed private keys goddamnit!!!

You can still sweep or spend the funds from that private key, even if the funding transaction isn't confirmed.  If you sweep the key and apply a high fee to your transaction, the parent transaction will very likely get confirmed faster.  It's known as "Child-Pays-For-Parent."

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4odi90/can_someone_explain_cpfp_child_pays_for_parent/  

I don't see how this works. Let's say we have 3 chips, 0.002, 0.004, 0.008, (doesn't really matter) and they all have unconfirmed pay to many parents with multiple outputs (0.002, 0.002, 0.002 x30 usually etc.)... How exactly do you want to CPFP this? It's going to cost an absurd amount of money.

Probably way more than the chip is even worth.

[DireWolfM14]

good luck CPFP'ing chipmixer transactions. They're usually HUGE.

Excellent point, and TBH the size of the parent transaction wasn't something I considered.  True that CM's outputs can be huge, and that could prevent CPFP from having any affect if the fees are set to a reasonable level.

It's an issue that CM could resolve by adding time to age their chips prior to releasing them.  I doubt they like that prospect, since most of the time this isn't an issue, but when blocks are full and fees are huge it does pose a challenge for their clients.

[figmentofmyass]

It's an issue that CM could resolve by adding time to age their chips prior to releasing them.  I doubt they like that prospect, since most of the time this isn't an issue, but when blocks are full and fees are huge it does pose a challenge for their clients.

it's a difficult problem to solve on a dynamic/automated level. no matter how good fee estimation algorithms are, there are always unknowns and congestion can throw a wrench into things.

miners cleared the mempool down to 3 sat/byte this morning and the OP hasn't been back since, so chances are that this has been resolved.

[o_e_l_e_o]

it's a difficult problem to solve on a dynamic/automated level. no matter how good fee estimation algorithms are, there are always unknowns and congestion can throw a wrench into things.

Exactly. This has been a bit of a unique situation, with a space of 7 days between the halving and the next difficulty adjustment, which is obviously having an effect on the average block time and causing the mempool to fill up. It's not helped that for the last month or two hash power was rapidly increasing, presumably as some miners tried to make the most of the 12.5 BTC block reward. The first half of this difficulty period we were 5% or more ahead, which balances out the average and will mean that this difficulty adjustment in ~18 hours still won't correct things fully, and we will be waiting until the next one to get the mempool completely back to normal operation. Even during the run up from $4k to $14k in April - June last year, the mempool still emptied every 4 days or so. The last time the mempool didn't empty for over a week like this was during the bullrun at the end of 2017. Difficult to set up an algorithm that would be guaranteed to work in such a unique situation.

Having a quick look over some of the most recent "chip funding" transactions that ChipMixer have made, all the ones I looked at from the last batch have a fee of around 150 sats/vbyte, so will have confirmed quickly. Several from the batch before that, however, do have fees of 3 sats/vbyte as OP has said. They are all now confirmed. Given what we've said above about this being difficult to predict, perhaps ChipMixer need to have someone take a manual look at the mempool before each round of funding transactions, to ensure the (I assume) automatically selected fee is sufficient? It will be made more complicated by the fact that their funding transactions leave no change, so the fee is always whatever is left over from the funding. It's not as simple as just increasing the fee like you or I would - if they want a higher fee, then they need to calculate a whole new batch of transactions from scratch.

[hugeblack]

it's a difficult problem to solve on a dynamic/automated level. no matter how good fee estimation algorithms are, there are always unknowns and congestion can throw a wrench into things.

I agree with you that it is difficult to define an algorithm that provides a minimum fee with the best time to confirm transactions, but what distinguishes the mixer is two things of privacy and speed, failure with them will lead to a lot of grumbling, as happened with the user.

Regarding chips funding, quote this text:

ChipMixer is different:
1 - few days/weeks ago - other user's deposit is split into chips, funding private keys
2 - now - your deposit of funds

Because ChipMixer funds private keys long before your visit, they cannot be linked with your transaction.

This raises a question about how difficult it is to track your coins. I thought they were preparing the chips relatively long before the date they were put to new users, "several months in particular", but wouldn't getting new chips "deposited within a week or two" would reduce privacy?  


The other side is the source of chips funding, I did not find the appropriate quote but I do remember that it is several sources other than user funds which mean that they have enough time to prepare chips with longer time periods.

Generally, we cannot generalize what happened in this case to all Chipmixer's chips.

[bitmover]

See, you already contradicted yourself. Of course it matters. It would be roughly the same as a credit card company charging hidden fees. doing a CPFP, you're trading chipmixer's time for your money..

Don't you think that it is a bad time to mix coins now?

Network is very congested, and mixing process involves a lot of transactions. unless you are willing to pay for those fees, you are going to have to wait.
I made a transactions with 1 sat/byte about a week ago, and it took near 3 days for the first confirmation.

Maybe chipmixer could put a warning in their website with the option to mix for free with 3 sat/byte or just pay CPFP if you are in hurry (i know it will be very expensive, but it is the customer who is in a hurry).

But I think at least a warning in the website would be nice.

[o_e_l_e_o]

I thought they were preparing the chips relatively long before the date they were put to new users, "several months in particular", but wouldn't getting new chips "deposited within a week or two" would reduce privacy?  

It will depend on how many people are trying to mix at any given time, how many people tried to mix in the last few weeks to months, how many of each chip you are requesting, how many of each chip other people have recently requested, etc. Looking at some chip funding transactions from my own history (which I'm obviously not going to link to for my own privacy), if you go back a month there are still probably around 50% of chips "unspent". The further back you go, the fewer unspent chips there are, particularly among the lower denominations. There's no telling which of those chips haven't been given out yet, and which have been given out but simply not claimed by the individual yet, though.

Don't you think that it is a bad time to mix coins now?

Well, maybe, but sometimes you need to mix your coins regardless of how expensive it is.

Maybe chipmixer could put a warning in their website with the option to mix for free with 3 sat/byte or just pay CPFP if you are in hurry (i know it will be very expensive, but it is the customer who is in a hurry).

They don't need to provide an option to pay to use CPFP. If an individual wants to do that, they can simply sweep their chips and pay the required fee. As pointed out above, though, the average chip funding transaction seems to range from around 1000 to 5000 vbytes, so CPFP could end up very costly, especially if you are looking at paying a fee of 100+ sats/vbyte.