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Author Topic: why hoarding Smerits?  (Read 481 times)
mu_enrico
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April 13, 2020, 04:35:42 PM
 #21

@OP
I believe hoarding is not the correct term to explain why some of the members who have lots of merits seem stingy or slow to spend their sMerits. Well, you know they can't stay online 24/7 and giving merit is a wearying activity (or should I say it sucks, lol). So many cheaters, copy pasters, plagiarists, etc., made them have to be careful with giving sMerits.

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April 13, 2020, 04:37:16 PM
 #22

I have realized that with the advent of new merit system, most of the established members are hoarding Smerits.
I thought this was an old thread but no, fresh from today´s oven (albeit using and old recipe). Regardless, do go ahead and show those established members, in order to get a sense of the dimension of the issue being discussed here (if not nominally, numerically).

Quote
I have also came across various posts on other forums in which they are selling merits.
 
Likely existed from the very first day, and pretty much unavoidable, although in big picture, the number of cases and amounts are expected to be small in proportion, to the point that it should be deemed pretty much meaningless (although, at this stage, unused airdropped sMerits are perhaps more of a risk than a potential benefit in my opinion).
 
Quote
IMHO all this is leading to the over all quality decay of this prestigious forum, various new members are migrating to other forums where it is much more easier to rank up. Existing lower rank members are also feeling 'hit the wall' kind of situation and not putting enough efforts in their posts.
You don’t really need rank that much unless it’s to benefit from campaigns. If people find alternatives they prefer, it’s their prerogative, but to discuss there is no need to escalate to any rank at all (although Jr. Member is desirable to be able to include images, which sometimes help to explain or refer to specific information).

Quote
But since we have adopted this system I urge all established members of this forum ( who have say in the matter) to look for possible solutions for speeding up the "merit giving system", or look for the alternatives.
It’s been discussed tons of times. The Merit System pivots around various key factors which I assume are monitored, and are moving in the currently intended ranges:

- Currently there is a more or less constant flow of merits of around 4,7K-6,7K per week. That could be increased by means of additional merit sources or allowance, but I figure it targets and intended weekly/monthly amount. I presume that the figure is more or less thought out.

- Each week there are something like 550 – 650 different sMerit awarders (with obvious different weights), which ensures some diversity of criteria.

- There are also between 800 and 1.000 different sMerit receivers per week. Out of those, around 100 are first time receivers. This latter may be an indicator to watch.

- The number of people that rank-up can (and is) be monitored.

Now could it if be moving at a faster pace?
Sure, but I’m not sure that the current parameters fall short of what is currently intended. I mean more sMerits could be pumped into the system through the Merits Sources (ideally through more sources in any case), or the 2:1 ratio (2 earned Merits: 1 generated sMerit) ratio could be altered (i.e. 3:2 ratio).
Those accounts that really put some time and effort scale the ranks (whether it’s their intent or not) without too much of an issue. Time is an important factor though.

Quote
One solution from my side is we can modify the merit system by making Smerits in the multiple of 5, So that the minimum merits one can give and receive is 5 from single user. This will lead to the change in minimum numbers of merit requires for jr member and members but I am sure that will speed up the much needed change.
There’s no need for that. Changing the rank’s requirements could be done without the above (i.e. lower the merit requirement for some mid-high ranks). If it has not been done, I assume it’s because it’s thought to be acceptable as is.
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April 13, 2020, 04:41:04 PM
 #23

Look at Ddmrddmr, iasenko, nullious, RapTarX  Cheesy and a lot of other members who have been ranked up so far after the merit system is introduced. They have received 1 merit most of the times and that's how they have reached their current amount of merits.
LoyceV has stated already, think from the anti point. I have received 522 merits which mean a total of 261 smerirs from which I have around 16 smerits now. I, and other members (not everyone), have been meriting posts which seems deserving, all the times. So, I guess the system is not a resistant towards rank up, the resistant is our goal; we want things to achieve with less effort.

If newbies are frustrated that they can't rank up on a discussion forum, that's 99.9% likely because they're here to use the forum as a place of employment
This, you have mentioned already.
various new members are migrating to other forums where it is much more easier to rank up.

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April 13, 2020, 05:00:40 PM
 #24

I have realized that with the advent of new merit system, most of the established members are hoarding Smerits.
For me, hoarding sMerit maybe is not something that can be blamed on forums, but this kind of behavior will only be considered as a form of lack of hoarding contributions for forums and users. The bitcointalk.org forum has become a library for the bitcoin community around the world to learn it and now we have 117,144 active profiles based bpip.org. If this forum has been considered as our place to gain knowledge such as a library, then we must have a good contribution to the forum and users in a good and recommended way.

Merit system is an effort that requires each user to post quality things. Apart from aiming to help the forum reduce junk posts, the merit system will also function as a requirement for user rankup after the number of posts and activities. Someone with a lower rank is forced to post quality things if they want to move up to a higher rank and this does not mean that users who have been ranked higher can post junk because there are no rules that say users can post junk on forums and if found it will be deleted.

And one form of contribution to forums and users is distributing sMerit on other users posts that are considered quality and useful. Even though the merit system is not moderated, it must run as expected and we have statistics to control it. Good if you receive merit, you also have to distribute them to other users quality posts. Dont be stingy and dont be afraid, because only users who are afraid and stingy can be categorized as sMerit hoarders.

I did not expect the list of users on this thread to be considered a member of sMerit hoarding. [CLUBS] Top Merited-Users Classified into 4 Clubs

I have also came across various posts on other forums in which they are selling merits.
If indeed you find it, make one thread on the reputation board that is equipped with solid evidence. If they are proven to be misusing merit, they will also get prizes such as negative trust.

One solution from my side is we can modify the merit system by making Smerits in the multiple of 5, So that the minimum merits one can give and receive is 5 from single user. This will lead to the change in minimum numbers of merit requires for jr member and members but I am sure that will speed up the much needed change.
Not a good solution in my opinion and theymos will not consider it. Try to be a user who can post quality things, and you will have the opportunity to get more than what you expect and without having to change the minimum send sMerit to 5.

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April 13, 2020, 05:20:58 PM
 #25

From what I've seen of the Signature Campaigns you only have to qualify with five initial merits in the last 120 days, not a rolling 5-in-120,
This rules is only for reducing some spam applications actually. Again if anybody have much merits there is no guaranty that the user will be accepted or not. It also depends on from where the merits came. Sometime lower merited user also do quality posts. But basically who do quality posts earn merits.

I will suggest, instead of complain merit system just contribute yourself and share your best knowledge & experience with community.
If anybody follow this suggestion and make a decision to go ahead by this way hope the user will success. But if any user get the merits system as very hard, rank up is not for him IMO. 

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April 13, 2020, 06:03:07 PM
 #26

Oh, we didn't had thread with complaints about merit system for a quite long time. OP, I think you're wrong.
Quote
IMHO all this is leading to the over all quality decay of this prestigious forum, various new members are migrating to other forums where it is much more easier to rank up.
It's OK, and it actually was one of points of merit system. Users who are making quality posts aren't leaving this forum because they aren't struggling to get merits and rank-up. While users who can't make good posts and don't get merits, it's not a problem that they are leaving, because in most cases they don't contribute anything to forum.
But can you tell where they are going to, because there isn't many alternative forums, especially these which have things like signature campaigns. Porobably only Cryptotalk comes as closest alternative.

Quote
One solution from my side is we can modify the merit system by making Smerits in the multiple of 5, So that the minimum merits one can give and receive is 5 from single user. This will lead to the change in minimum numbers of merit requires for jr member and members but I am sure that will speed up the much needed change.
I don't think it's good idea. I think it may increase abuse of merit system. Also, in first place, why do we need to rush rank-up proccess?

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April 13, 2020, 07:08:15 PM
 #27

Maybe just maybe if you tried to stray away from the marketplace section and altcoin discussion you'll find it easier to earn merits in your part. These sections are typically avoided by merit sources since there is no real conversation going on. Based on your post history you aren't that bad of a poster so really you have better chances of earning merits in other sections where members value what you post. Do not be one of those newbie and low ranking members thinking that merits are a hindrance of ranking up since they are the obvious ones who aren't really contributing anything to the forum.
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April 14, 2020, 03:13:45 AM
Last edit: April 14, 2020, 03:24:20 AM by tranthidung
 #28

I have realized that with the advent of new merit system, most of the established members are hoarding Smerits.
I don't know how you came to the judgement like that. Is this based on any source of data, statistics?

AFAIK, most of sMerits on the forum have been delivered by established and high ranked members. My thread has not yet been updated with recent data but basically such a big stuff does not change too much after several weeks.
In ntransactions
Receivers:
  • They received merits mostly from Legendary, and Hero members.
  • Exception is Global moderators, who received merits from Legendary (1st), Staff (2nd), and Hero Member (3rd) but the difference in percents between Staff (15.3%) and Hero Member (14.8%) is very small.

In values of transactions
Receivers:
  • For all ranks of receivers, majority of their earned merits come from Legendary members.
  • Jr. Members: received their merits mostly from Legendary, Hero members, and Members (descendingly).
  • Members: received their merits mostly from Legendary, Hero members and Members (descendingly).
Where receivers received merits from, and meriters sents merits to
If you are not interested in statistics, you can simply look at bar charts which help you fastly see most of sMerits were distributed by Hero and Legendary members.

For example: with receivers are Brandnew and newbie members, Hero and Legendary members are the most merit senders to them. For more details, please take a look at the given thread.

In number of transactions:

In value of transactions:

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April 14, 2020, 03:24:44 AM
 #29

@OP
I believe hoarding is not the correct term to explain why some of the members who have lots of merits seem stingy or slow to spend their sMerits. Well, you know they can't stay online 24/7 and giving merit is a wearying activity (or should I say it sucks, lol). So many cheaters, copy pasters, plagiarists, etc., made them have to be careful with giving sMerits.
Aside from that, some also are too picky to choose the right one like me. I mean, I want to give my smerits to someone with exceptional post but sometimes I'm more attracted giving merits to members which is polite and with the right intention of helping others Smiley. I love appreciating small contributions from people with kind heart.
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April 14, 2020, 05:01:04 AM
 #30

~~~
Anyone who can post high quality, I think they have the right to get merit as a form of appreciation. Even though higher ranking members do not need merit as a condition for rising rank, their experience and knowledge are things that should get attention for merit.

If you are interested in distributing your sMerit to members with lower rankings on quality posts, I think that is no problem. But for me, I can distribute it to anyone on quality posts even though they are higher members. Post quality is the basic standard for distributing sMerit, so we dont need to limit it to rankings because only members who post quality goods have the right to get it.

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April 14, 2020, 05:43:18 AM
 #31

I have realized that with the advent of new merit system, most of the established members are hoarding Smerits.

How did you come to this conclusion?

Quote
Merit system was not at all needed in the very first place because we have trust system already

Trust system and ranking system can't be compared  as they are both different things. Merit system has done more good than harm imo, previous ranking system was merely based on your activity, make some posts daily and done. Even for spammers it was easy to rank up.

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April 14, 2020, 06:43:44 AM
 #32

~~~
Post quality is the basic standard for distributing sMerit, so we dont need to limit it to rankings because only members who post quality goods have the right to get it.
Hmm, it's not like that I'm just limiting my smerit and no longer open for high members. Actually, I also give merits to Sr. Members and up if there's a chance but I realized that my smerits would be more meaningful if I give it to those low ranked quality posters. Besides, they needed it most compare to those Legendary members who already got overflowing recognition from the others Cheesy. For me it is just my simple token of appreciation which can somehow uplift their self esteem as a member of this forum. I want them to feel that they really belong here Smiley.
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April 14, 2020, 06:59:03 AM
Last edit: April 14, 2020, 07:21:03 AM by Upgrade00
 #33

only members who post quality goods have the right to get it.
I agree, merit should be freely given to any user who makes quality contributions regardless of their forum rank. But I also think that quality should be dependent on the users rank.
With the exception of alt accounts, users rank should also reflect their knowledge and technical know-how. If we agree with this, then a newbie can get merit for a post, which is deemed quality cause of their rank.
If a Hero member makes same post, I may not be inclined to give out any merits for it, as their higher rank means higher quality expectations, and this should reflect in their discussions.

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April 14, 2020, 12:59:15 PM
 #34

The bottomline is that, we cannot force other users to give us merit if they do not want to, they might have their own reasons of not doing so. But do not be worried, there are DTs and other users who does give you merit IF they find your post or topic created, informative or making any sense. There are also merit giveaway threads to which we can find hope. Just be active in this forum and try to construct posts which would be beneficial to the eyes of other users. It would be hard but, hard work pays, remember that. I myself is having a hard time to earn but is still trying to, so you better do the same thing if you are seeking progress.
@OP
I believe hoarding is not the correct term to explain why some of the members who have lots of merits seem stingy or slow to spend their sMerits. Well, you know they can't stay online 24/7 and giving merit is a wearying activity (or should I say it sucks, lol). So many cheaters, copy pasters, plagiarists, etc., made them have to be careful with giving sMerits.
Indeed. As I have said, they are not giving merits to eberyone because of their reasons. They mighy be saving it for posts or topics which would finally make them to do so and we should respect that.

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