Bitcointalk Poker Series format discussion - Let's keep them all in one place.

[1r0n1c]

I like playing 2 tournaments at the weekend, but I understand you when it´s too demanding - especially when timezones issues pop up.
However, when we decide to have 1 final table after 2 months I would like to increase the pricepool. Either we´re paying 1500 or 2000 instead of 1000, or what Ivan suggested, that
we create an additional Price pool for the guys with the most points (maybe 200 extra and places 1-3 are paid?!).
I know, the idea is having fun, spending a good time with people from this Forum, but it´s also a competition.

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[figmentofmyass]

However, when we decide to have 1 final table after 2 months I would like to increase the pricepool. Either we´re paying 1500 or 2000 instead of 1000, or what Ivan suggested, that we create an additional Price pool for the guys with the most points (maybe 200 extra and places 1-3 are paid?!).
I know, the idea is having fun, spending a good time with people from this Forum, but it´s also a competition.

are you saying you wanna add an additional buy-in on top? so instead of 1000+200 per game as now, it would be 1000+200+200, where 200 goes to the championship prize pool and 200 goes towards a separate prize pool for the top 3 in league points?

i kinda like it. it adds some additional incentive to play every game. what does everyone else think?

[1r0n1c]

However, when we decide to have 1 final table after 2 months I would like to increase the pricepool. Either we´re paying 1500 or 2000 instead of 1000, or what Ivan suggested, that we create an additional Price pool for the guys with the most points (maybe 200 extra and places 1-3 are paid?!).
I know, the idea is having fun, spending a good time with people from this Forum, but it´s also a competition.

are you saying you wanna add an additional buy-in on top? so instead of 1000+200 per game as now, it would be 1000+200+200, where 200 goes to the championship prize pool and 200 goes towards a separate prize pool for the top 3 in league points?

i kinda like it. it adds some additional incentive to play every game. what does everyone else think?

exactly! I like the idea as well. It could have multiple effects when we pay 1000 + 200 + 200
1. People are more motivated to Play every game (to collect as many league Points as possible)
2. That lead´s to a higher Price pool on the final table
3. the top 3 in league Points are more appreciated for their good Play

What do you guys think about that?

[tyKiwanuka]

i kinda like it. it adds some additional incentive to play every game. what does everyone else think?

I think the Top9 in league points should get some prize. For example CCwatcher420/JTisCuban has 14 participations and is playing good poker throughout both series. Missed Grand Final in first series, but will probably qualify for it this time. If he isn't in the money there, he would have participated in every tournament there was and never has gotten anything back. This is kind of unfair (well, is Poker fair anyway ? ) imo and regular players (add maybe good to it) should get rewarded at some point.

It's the same with you, but you at least were able to win some BTC in small final.

If you split some additional prize pool for league points between 9 players, it will be quite few for each one of them then again though.....but maybe better than nothing

[arallmuus]

I think it would be great if we had one mid week tourney, and one sunday tourney. That way, the later half of the weekend is booked. Time zones would be an issue so we would need to tally who is where.

If some people have hard time catching up the game on both Saturday and Sunday then it might be harder for them to play on mid week. Life is getting back to normal now with no more quarantine in some country

I think the Top9 in league points should get some prize. For example CCwatcher420/JTisCuban has 14 participations and is playing good poker throughout both series. Missed Grand Final in first series, but will probably qualify for it this time. If he isn't in the money there, he would have participated in every tournament there was and never has gotten anything back. This is kind of unfair (well, is Poker fair anyway ? ) imo and regular players (add maybe good to it) should get rewarded at some point.

At some point I do know that this is a game and there will always be a winner or loser . Everyone cant win everything sadly  

Anyway, isnt there some runners up freeroll in the 1st series? Since there will be 3 places paid in the Grand Final, Perhaps the other 6 could be invited to play some runners up 0.01 guaranteed game? Probably sponsored by our 3 winners in the Grand Final (?)

Got invited by efialtis to a runners up game before eventhough I didnt make alot of points in the first series  

Hey together,

I can't wait to meet you all at the tables on Sunday for our 10 mBTC Runners-up Freeroll. Please do not share the password with anyone. Thank you! Smiley

I'm not really keen on mixing it into the series itself. I think it would make a cool tournament to run once a month itself. Bounty tournaments are fun and can get pretty wild, so I'd definitely join one for a good time. I think the idea behind a series and a championship lends itself to a points only for finishes format and should be kept that way.

Noted on this, I guess it would be hard to change the current one

[CCwatcher420]

I think the Top9 in league points should get some prize. For example CCwatcher420/JTisCuban has 14 participations and is playing good poker throughout both series. Missed Grand Final in first series, but will probably qualify for it this time. If he isn't in the money there, he would have participated in every tournament there was and never has gotten anything back. This is kind of unfair (well, is Poker fair anyway ? ) imo and regular players (add maybe good to it) should get rewarded at some point.

It's the same with you, but you at least were able to win some BTC in small final.

If you split some additional prize pool for league points between 9 players, it will be quite few for each one of them then again though.....but maybe better than nothing

Lol. Glad to see my consistency wasn't unnoticed. it isn't about prizes for me. I genuinely enjoy poker. I probably would have also made the final 10 on the first series had it not been for 2 bad beats. But it happens.

The site is soft enough where I have subsidized the last few tournament buyins with cash game winnings. I do enjoy playing on other sites as well. I mostly like the community aspect of this series.

I would enjoy an actual series with low buyin/high buyin tournies as well.

[figmentofmyass]

i kinda like it. it adds some additional incentive to play every game. what does everyone else think?

I think the Top9 in league points should get some prize. For example CCwatcher420/JTisCuban has 14 participations and is playing good poker throughout both series. Missed Grand Final in first series, but will probably qualify for it this time. If he isn't in the money there, he would have participated in every tournament there was and never has gotten anything back. This is kind of unfair (well, is Poker fair anyway ? ) imo and regular players (add maybe good to it) should get rewarded at some point.

It's the same with you, but you at least were able to win some BTC in small final.

i feel like the championship entry is already a flat payout---9 people winning a satellite ticket basically. the idea of this IMO would be to reward the top performers in the league. the championship game (or the runners up game, if there is one) in many ways is up to chance, whereas placing in the top 3 for the entire series says something more about skill/consistency.

i think if we're gonna add something it should be top heavy but let's hear some more opinions.

Anyway, isnt there some runners up freeroll in the 1st series?

SwC was nice enough to put that on for us. let's see if they'll do it again.

[Trofo]

This thread needs a bump, since new series will be starting soon and efialtis already said that he is starting to work on organization so I decided to once more sum up my thoughts on how we should move forward:
- We should make it one tournament per week, played on Sunday. I could be wrong but from what I have seen I have a feeling Sunday is better day for most of us. We are loosing players every week and that is probably due to heavy time involvement with the series as our lives gets more and more to normal. One tournament per week would help me to keep attending all the tournaments, and probably some other users as well
- Buy in should stay around current levels, If you get SwC to take that extra chips from the buy in, maybe we can make buy in 1500 chips, 1000 for the tournament, 250 for the grand table, 250 for the top 3 per points finished. This part is not really important for me personally but I saw some suggestions to that end
-5000 chips seems to work rather well for weekly tournaments so I would keep current chip/blinds structure
-10k chips for grand finale sounds reasonable

Our biggest problem going forward is attendance and we should do anything in our power to raise the number of participants. I think this is mostly the case of time involvement while current buy in structure should be fine for all interested. If you are on the brink on joining our little poker series please speak up and let us know what is stopping you.

[Steamtyme]

~snip~
i feel like the championship entry is already a flat payout---9 people winning a satellite ticket basically. the idea of this IMO would be to reward the top performers in the league. the championship game (or the runners up game, if there is one) in many ways is up to chance, whereas placing in the top 3 for the entire series says something more about skill/consistency.

i think if we're gonna add something it should be top heavy but let's hear some more opinions.

Anyway, isnt there some runners up freeroll in the 1st series?

SwC was nice enough to put that on for us. let's see if they'll do it again.

I don't think raising the entry to accommodate a special prize for top 3 will benefit the series overall. I think it will actually drive away more players than it will attract, based on the consistency and skill levels shown so far. I'd say most of the participants are fairly decent poker players with a few that have solid consistent documented finishes by the end of the series. This is also entering the 15-20$ buy-in that a lot of players won't want to consistently risk for a small tournament.
It would be different if it was just added to that tournaments prizepool, but again I think a lot of people will shy away from a larger buy-in.

Unfortunately efialitis did inform us that there was no runner-up tournament this time around.

Our biggest problem going forward is attendance and we should do anything in our power to raise the number of participants. I think this is mostly the case of time involvement while current buy in structure should be fine for all interested. If you are on the brink on joining our little poker series please speak up and let us know what is stopping you.

Agreed. I do think a lot of people drop out near the end if they are no longer in contention for the Championship. The 2 tournaments a weekend was definitely a draw back imo. If we carried on that way I likely wouldn't be able to participate fully, I've actually booked off some vacation the last 2 series just to fit in another couple tournaments lol.

Moving to 1 a weekend is already a good step in the right direction. I just try to mention the tournament to any and all that will listen. I haven't been on th eSWC cash tables lately but I was going to start poking some of their regs to come on out and join, I'm sure some of them already have an account here.

One thing I think might be nice especially considering we are currently rather small - Is a group discussion about the Championship game before the date is set. The time is not really movable to accommodate all of our players atm, but date seems easy enough to find one that works for all. I say this as I am lucky that I will be able to play this weekend, but if I were on my dayshifts I would be SOL. Nothing crazy but the option between 2 weekends might be nice.

[figmentofmyass]

We should make it one tournament per week, played on Sunday.

+1

If you get SwC to take that extra chips from the buy in, maybe we can make buy in 1500 chips, 1000 for the tournament, 250 for the grand table, 250 for the top 3 per points finished. This part is not really important for me personally but I saw some suggestions to that end

i'm open to this. @Steamtyme does raise some good points though.

we need to consider how to maximize participation. is an extra 300 chips per game (going towards league prizes) going to do that? it could keep players coming back to improve their standings, but it could also deter people entirely who don't feel they have a shot at top 3 to begin with.

i suppose we could consider a flatter structure for the top x in points? @tyKiwanuka suggested expanding it to the top 9. my gut reaction was "that's too flat" but in reality there was a lot of competition for 5th-9th place so it could keep things interesting. thoughts?

-5000 chips seems to work rather well for weekly tournaments so I would keep current chip/blinds structure
-10k chips for grand finale sounds reasonable

+1

[Betwrong]

If you get SwC to take that extra chips from the buy in, maybe we can make buy in 1500 chips, 1000 for the tournament, 250 for the grand table, 250 for the top 3 per points finished. This part is not really important for me personally but I saw some suggestions to that end

i'm open to this. @Steamtyme does raise some good points though.

we need to consider how to maximize participation. is an extra 300 chips per game (going towards league prizes) going to do that? it could keep players coming back to improve their standings, but it could also deter people entirely who don't feel they have a shot at top 3 to begin with.
~

I personally agree with 1000+250+250 structure, but it still remains a question, to me at least, whether new people are not joining because the prize pool looks too small to them, or because the entry price looks too big?

I think we can try to solve it in one shot in the #3 Series. On the one hand, we make it 1000+250+250, so those who want bigger prize pool will be happy. Yet on the other hand, if we make it one tournament per week, played on Sunday, as @Trofo suggested, people like me, who put limits on what they can potentially lose to gambling during a certain period of time, will be happy as well, because instead of risking 2,400 chips per week(1,200+1,200), they will be risking only 1,500 chips(per week).

[arallmuus]

I think we can try to solve it in one shot in the #3 Series. On the one hand, we make it 1000+250+250, so those who want bigger prize pool will be happy. Yet on the other hand, if we make it one tournament per week, played on Sunday, as @Trofo suggested, people like me, who put limits on what they can potentially lose to gambling during a certain period of time, will be happy as well, because instead of risking 2,400 chips per week(1,200+1,200), they will be risking only 1,500 chips(per week).

For regulars like us, it would be great to spend only 1500 per week. As FOMA has stated, this rise to a new issue that some people that dont play regularly or some new guy that only want to try it for one or two times. Instead of the regular 1200 chip , they would be risking 300 more for 1500

I personally dont mind with lower prizepool because Im not really aiming for the money. 1200 chips is good enough because in regular tournament we will have the some decent prizepool in accordance to number of people ( Provided if you are top 3 or perhaps 4 )

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

- We should make it one tournament per week, played on Sunday. I could be wrong but from what I have seen I have a feeling Sunday is better day for most of us. We are loosing players every week and that is probably due to heavy time involvement with the series as our lives gets more and more to normal. One tournament per week would help me to keep attending all the tournaments, and probably some other users as well

I have not problems.

- Buy in should stay around current levels, If you get SwC to take that extra chips from the buy in, maybe we can make buy in 1500 chips, 1000 for the tournament, 250 for the grand table, 250 for the top 3 per points finished. This part is not really important for me personally but I saw some suggestions to that end

I do not understand the bold part. 250 for the final tournament and what is this top 3 per point things?

-5000 chips seems to work rather well for weekly tournaments so I would keep current chip/blinds structure
-10k chips for grand finale sounds reasonable

Agree on both, although I will need to take the test of playing with 10k chips yet 🤪

What about late registration? Do we really need it?

[Steamtyme]

What about late registration? Do we really need it?

I think we have done away with it completely, iirc. Maybe we left in a 5-10 minute late reg that wouldn't really make a difference overall.

I've been giving the prizepool a lot of thought as that seems to be where people think we are weak. What if we allowed 1 re-buy within the first 45 minutes or something like that.  This way if someone is inclined they can buy back in off  bad beat or just because they bust out and want more. It's not much but the prizepool will continue to grow only when we get more people involved at ~the same buy-in. I personally think the increases will just turn this into more of a niche game, and i could be wrong.
I have been trying to think of neat ideas that could really be more luck based than skill based to encourage participation, without increasing buy-ins. What if we created a "High Hand" or something similar for each tournament as a side prize say 175 goes to the Championship pool and 25 goes to each tournaments "High Hand" pool. It takes a bit away from the top performers in the end but the more participants we draw in the larger the prizepools will be.

[tyKiwanuka]

I have been trying to think of neat ideas that could really be more luck based than skill based to encourage participation, without increasing buy-ins. What if we created a "High Hand" or something similar for each tournament as a side prize say 175 goes to the Championship pool and 25 goes to each tournaments "High Hand" pool. It takes a bit away from the top performers in the end but the more participants we draw in the larger the prizepools will be.

I have thought about such ideas as well. Mainly about incentives to keep the weaker and/or out-of-contention players interested and probably get new (regular) players. The best idea I could come up with, was some kind of lottery for players ranked outside of Top9 after 8 tournaments. Each player who has participated in at least 6/8 tournaments is eligible and will get "tickets" to the lottery based on his number of participations and the points he accumulated:



10 tickets per participation and one ticket per point:

I would get 60+24 = 84 tickets (ticket numbers 1-84)
SyGambler 60+23 = 83 tickets (ticket numbers 85-167)
Trofo 80+19 = 99 tickets (ticket numbers 168-......
cygan wouldn't be eligible, because only 5/8 played
jayce 60+1 = 61 tickets
etc.

Then you would have XXX tickets and the most trusted user, which is probably Hhampuz, would pick the winners with some random number generator. Each user can only have one winning ticket and you have like 3 prizes.

If you put 100 chips aside from each player for every tournament in series #2, you would have had a 14500 chips prize pool for this lottery.

The problem is........it creates additional hassle with collecting these funds, so probably not an option.

[figmentofmyass]

If you put 100 chips aside from each player for every tournament in series #2, you would have had a 14500 chips prize pool for this lottery.

The problem is........it creates additional hassle with collecting these funds, so probably not an option.

that's one reason why upfront league entry would be nice. everything gets sorted out and paid for beforehand (on a series basis rather than per game basis) except for the direct buy-ins themselves.

the problem of course is that 250+250 for league/championship prizes = 4000 chips up front, which may deter some people.

[Globb0]

I said my bit before.

I think everyone should get a point for entering any tournament match. So even if you came last 8 times you will have more points than someone who lost 2/2 of their games.

We aren't affecting the top end of your games. As seen its the usual faces in the top few slots, this is adoption at the other end of the scale.

Also I think a losers tournament was nice for something for the non pros to look forward to.

[figmentofmyass]

we're at least set on keeping 5000 chip starting stacks and the same blind structure, right?

any other thoughts on an additional buy-in to fund direct league prizes (ie top x players in points get BTC prizes)?

or about upfront league entry vs per game entry? it would be way less headache to collect fees if it were all done upfront.

I think everyone should get a point for entering any tournament match. So even if you came last 8 times you will have more points than someone who lost 2/2 of their games.

We aren't affecting the top end of your games. As seen its the usual faces in the top few slots, this is adoption at the other end of the scale.

so basically this?

linear points: (n-r+1) where n = number of entrants and r = rank placed. so for a field of 18 players:

1st place = 18 points
18th place = 1 point

the problem is it devalues the top ranks. the bigger the field is, the less share of points the winners get. in a really big field there is basically no difference between a #1 and #10 finish. i think it would be fine if we just had ~18 man tournaments, but with larger fields it flattens things quite a lot.

Also I think a losers tournament was nice for something for the non pros to look forward to.

i think so too. if we coordinate with SwC beforehand they might be willing to throw us a bone. if not, should we try to fund it ourselves? 500 chips x 20 players = the 0.01 BTC prize pool we had for the first runners up game.

[Globb0]

I don't think it has to be linear.

Keep your top places valuable. Below a certain point just give 1 point to the rest.

Might also generate some action mid table, because people might have to play to get safe.

[Trofo]

I don't think it has to be linear.

Keep your top places valuable. Below a certain point just give 1 point to the rest.

Might also generate some action mid table, because people might have to play to get safe.

So basically you are proposing to avoid 1 point for participation. That could work, at least I don't see a big downside for that proposal. Maybe we could give 10 points for first place as it is now. That way final table gets rewarded, 9th place gets 2 points if my math is correct and all other players get one point.

I would also like to have runners up tournament, I just don't know where to get money for it. I will be ok if do it like regular buy in but it would be much better if we manage to get some sponsor.