WTF Auction #10 - Unique 5 BTC Hybrid Coin - Lealana & Casascius

[anonymousminer]

You can guess on the topic.... or say we will insure it, but you can't..... PERIOD.  Sure the agent will tell you all you want to hear about providing coverage, but when you go to make a claim they will not cover ANY digital value.  It's a fact.  I highly recommend those of you dealing with high end coins to make yourself a bit more informed on this matter.  I have done my research, but no need to trust me... do your own.  

I think it depends who you talk to @ the post office. My friend is a postmaster with almost 10 years experience. He said if you can prove you paid XYZ for it (I explained it as a password to a digital safe) then they shouldn't deny the claim. It's digital property according to the IRS so I don't see how the USPS can consider to be something else.

He is wrong and merely guessing.  I'm done saying the same thing over and over.  Take your chance.  Oh.... and ask your buddy if he's certain enough that the USPS would cover it to dig in his pocket if they don't.  I bet you get his real answer.... and if he says yes, get it in writing.

[The real WTF]

For something this expensive....you either meet personally or hire a crypto courier like Anonminer.

  I would never ever send this by mail. Just my Satoshis

If the winner is in the continental USA I would be happy to fly/drive out and personally deliver the coin, however that cost would have to be added to the total amount as some sort of delivery fee.  Or if someone wants to come to Colorado they are more than welcome to come pick it up.  If not, shipping high value items is a thing and I remain confident that it can be shipped safely.

[av8rjeff]

I bid 5.00 BTC

[The real WTF]

I bid 5.00 BTC

^^ This is the winning bid. ^^

PM me your shipping information and escrow preference, and we will be in touch with the details.  Thank you!

This auction is now closed.

[Lesbian Cow]

Should still have 33 minutes left no?

4pm MT = 6pm EST = 10:00 PM Sunday utc

[av8rjeff]

I just PM'd TrWTF the same.  If by chance he doesn't catch it, I'll honor the original posted time for sure.

[The real WTF]

I just PM'd TrWTF the same.  If by chance he doesn't catch it, I'll honor the original posted time for sure.

I botched it, sure enough. Per the terms of the auction, av8rjeff is the winner. I’m not even sure anyone else was going to bid though. Was anyone else planning to? Even if so, av8rjeff just say the word and it’s yours.

[Room101]

I was one of the people seriously considering it, but between shipping, Insurance, and the uselessness of Australian customs, it was just too much risk. Good chance I would have had to pay a 10% tax if it arrived safely. Tricky one to sell in these times, if I'd been in the USA I would have been all over it.

[Agrawas]

I just PM'd TrWTF the same.  If by chance he doesn't catch it, I'll honor the original posted time for sure.

I botched it, sure enough. Per the terms of the auction, av8rjeff is the winner. I’m not even sure anyone else was going to bid though. Was anyone else planning to? Even if so, av8rjeff just say the word and it’s yours.

Not sure what happened here with timings and so many other discussions, but I was kinda interested as I PMed u too..

[Hellot]

Why would you sell this for less than peel value?  That's around $2200 right now.

[anonymousminer]

Why would you sell this for less than peel value?  That's around $2200 right now.

It was a botched auction. 

[Room101]

Yeah I've been thinking about this a bit, because I really wanted it, but for this value coin I feel international shipping, and perhaps even shipping in general, is just not worth the risk. Which means coins like this will start getting peeled more and more often, which is a shame. But given the non 0% chance it gets lost/stolen in the mail, and the $2500 extra value in shit coins, I think if I was selling I would want at least a 10% premium over face value, otherwise safer to just peel. Will also make selling smaller denomination coins pretty difficult if bitcoin goes up a lot, need some kind of decentralized insurance solution with a trusted member or something. Like escrow plus. It's a market friction, which means there is value to be offered and money to made somewhere.

[iBitcoinHongKong8]

Yeah I've been thinking about this a bit, because I really wanted it, but for this value coin I feel international shipping, and perhaps even shipping in general, is just not worth the risk. Which means coins like this will start getting peeled more and more often, which is a shame. But given the non 0% chance it gets lost/stolen in the mail, and the $2500 extra value in shit coins, I think if I was selling I would want at least a 10% premium over face value, otherwise safer to just peel. Will also make selling smaller denomination coins pretty difficult if bitcoin goes up a lot, need some kind of decentralized insurance solution with a trusted member or something. Like escrow plus. It's a market friction, which means there is value to be offered and money to made somewhere.

I hear ya on this, however I feel like for a coin of this value it's perfectly suited to hire a crypto courier such as AM, MJ or Krogoth as well as some others who are all are specialists in this field and enjoy doing it for a fair fee. Terms can be easily worked out I'm sure. Everyone I've spoken to all seem extremely reasonably minded folks. So this IMO is the perfect situation for these coins. As BTC rises it's worth hiring a courier. And if people choose not to collect their premium then they can peel therefore enhancing the value of the unpeeled coins by the day. I literally feel like this is a win win situation especially if you're more than happy with hiring a courier for the more expensive items. Just my 2bits. Peel away is fine with me too! These are all good problems to have. It's also nice that if you choose to peel you get a decent free added value from the forks. So I guess it just depends on where each individual's thresholds are. I'm more than happy to pay for a flight to ensure I get my property but that's just me. All the best to everyone!

iBHK8

[kryme]

Curious question for the couriers... Would you have to legally declare this coin if you're travelling with it internationally as the value is over $10,000?

[iBitcoinHongKong8]

Curious question for the couriers... Would you have to legally declare this coin if you're travelling with it internationally as the value is over $10,000?

I don't see why they would need to as it's not their property. They are simply delivering from point A to B even though they may need to hit a point C in the middle of all that. Perhaps someone else can chime in but the couriers don't own the property so I genuinely don't think they need to declare a thing. In this case, they're really no different than a FedEx or USPS guy/gal at your door delivering your package! Again just my 2bits!

iBHK8

[MoparMiningLLC]

I like the idea of using couriers for the more expensive items - seems like the price of taking care of the couriers travel would be worth it considering the relative safety of worrying about regular shipping and then if something does happen having to worry about the insurance claims.

A trusted courier would be a fair solution for both parties, especially as there are a few well trusted individuals to offer that service.

[iBitcoinHongKong8]

I like the idea of using couriers for the more expensive items - seems like the price of taking care of the couriers travel would be worth it considering the relative safety of worrying about regular shipping and then if something does happen having to worry about the insurance claims.

A trusted courier would be a fair solution for both parties, especially as there are a few well trusted individuals to offer that service.

I couldn't agree more!

iBHK8

[Room101]

I like the idea of using couriers for the more expensive items - seems like the price of taking care of the couriers travel would be worth it considering the relative safety of worrying about regular shipping and then if something does happen having to worry about the insurance claims.

A trusted courier would be a fair solution for both parties, especially as there are a few well trusted individuals to offer that service.

I couldn't agree more!

iBHK8

Agreed! I think COVID is scrambling my brain, I forgot that one day I'll actually be able to leave the country again!

[Hellot]

Curious question for the couriers... Would you have to legally declare this coin if you're travelling with it internationally as the value is over $10,000?

I don't see why they would need to as it's not their property. They are simply delivering from point A to B even though they may need to hit a point C in the middle of all that. Perhaps someone else can chime in but the couriers don't own the property so I genuinely don't think they need to declare a thing. In this case, they're really no different than a FedEx or USPS guy/gal at your door delivering your package! Again just my 2bits!

iBHK8

Who owns the property is irrelevant.  Customs declaration varies by country and it boils down to what you are carrying, not necessarily who owns it.  If you are entering the US/EU the declaration form lists "monetary instruments".  A loaded crypto collectible is effectively a bearer-negotiable monetary instrument but since countries haven't legally made that distinction yet and the forms do not specifically list "cryptocurrency", you have room for not declaring it.  Some countries have classified Bitcoin as property and you don't declare your $20,000 Rolex when entering a country.  Countries are slow and have only recently gotten around to classifying gold coins as cash.  But that doesn't mean that customs can't choose to make your life hard, including going as far as to confiscate it, forcing you to spend time/money to get it back.  Some countries are more corrupt than others.
  
Your best chance for success is for the collectible to not stand out from your other property.  I'm curious what steps the couriers here are taking to ensure the item gets through customs without drawing scrutiny.  I'm also interested to hear from people like Bobby Lee who have traveled internationally with loaded physical crypto coins.

[krogoth]

Curious question for the couriers... Would you have to legally declare this coin if you're travelling with it internationally as the value is over $10,000?

I don't see why they would need to as it's not their property. They are simply delivering from point A to B even though they may need to hit a point C in the middle of all that. Perhaps someone else can chime in but the couriers don't own the property so I genuinely don't think they need to declare a thing. In this case, they're really no different than a FedEx or USPS guy/gal at your door delivering your package! Again just my 2bits!

iBHK8

Who owns the property is irrelevant.  Customs declaration varies by country and it boils down to what you are carrying, not necessarily who owns it.  If you are entering the US/EU the declaration form lists "monetary instruments".  A loaded crypto collectible is effectively a bearer-negotiable monetary instrument but since countries haven't legally made that distinction yet and the forms do not specifically list "cryptocurrency", you have room for not declaring it.  Some countries have classified Bitcoin as property and you don't declare your $20,000 Rolex when entering a country.  Countries are slow and have only recently gotten around to classifying gold coins as cash.  But that doesn't mean that customs can't choose to make your life hard, including going as far as to confiscate it, forcing you to spend time/money to get it back.  Some countries are more corrupt than others.
  
Your best chance for success is for the collectible to not stand out from your other property.  I'm curious what steps the couriers here are taking to ensure the item gets through customs without drawing scrutiny.  I'm also interested to hear from people like Bobby Lee who have traveled internationally with loaded physical crypto coins.

  Then it goes without saying a Trezor or hardwallet will be treated in the same way.

  If it goes that way...then memorize the mnemonic seed...wipe the Trezor clean...and you have nothing to declare..then just place the mnemonic seed upon arrival at destination.

  Or even better...don't take trezor with you.....arrive at destination...buy a new trezor and input the mnemonic seed...voila!    God bless Satoshi!