Which fastest LN, LTC, Dash?

[yhiaali3]

Which fastest LN, LTC, Dash?

Bitrefill, the mobile operator, has run a competition to find out which currencies are faster to pay phone bills via its system via the currencies BTC, ETH, LTC, Dash, Doge and the winner will receive a 100 $ award.

 Three people have tried to pay using Bitcoin Lighting Network and LTC, Dash currencies.
The result was the victory of the person who was paid using the Dash coin as the process took only about 24 seconds !!!
Contest Twitter page:
https://twitter.com/bitrefill/status/1263125649792917506



This is surprising to me, I was expecting the Bitcoin Lighting network to win, but unfortunately the Lighting network needs to open a channel and some procedures before the transfer and also not available in all bitcoin wallets so Dash coin won.

[shaheer001]

Its amazing DASH will now get more investors and it will boost up the DASH ranking I have also read that DASH is officially used in Brazil and one another country I think Venezuela for online bill payments and daily purchase items.

[tsaroz]

The person doing the lightning transaction would have made some delay while making the transaction. And it's a bit confusing with all those invoice while dash just needs to input address and amount. It's overall a win win for crypto as people are using it for making their day to day transaction and bitrefill has been a goto option for gift cards and airtime for some years now.

[yhiaali3]

The person doing the lightning transaction would have made some delay while making the transaction. And it's a bit confusing with all those invoice while dash just needs to input address and amount. It's overall a win win for crypto as people are using it for making their day to day transaction and bitrefill has been a goto option for gift cards and airtime for some years now.

Yes, it is true that the lightning network needs some preparation before transmission, and this is already confusing in such a competition that requires great speed. I think this is what made Dash superior to it.

[CuriousGeorge]

The person doing the lightning transaction would have made some delay while making the transaction. And it's a bit confusing with all those invoice while dash just needs to input address and amount. It's overall a win win for crypto as people are using it for making their day to day transaction and bitrefill has been a goto option for gift cards and airtime for some years now.

Yes, it is true that the lightning network needs some preparation before transmission, and this is already confusing in such a competition that requires great speed. I think this is what made Dash superior to it.

Isn't it the receiver must also use LN client to be able receive the bitcoin from the LN of bitcoin?

The average TPS between litecoin and dash are not having a huge gap but it looks like there are other factors that affected it.

[hatshepsut93]

Here's the blog post that explains the rules of this competition: https://blog.bitrefill.com/bitrefill-contest-fastest-phone-refill-on-earth-c721d4d6aff2?gi=82bba82fd868

This wasn't a test of raw network speed, bur rather a test of payment speed on the same platform called Bitrefill using different currencies.

This is surprising to me, I was expecting the Bitcoin Lighting network to win, but unfortunately the Lighting network needs to open a channel and some procedures before the transfer and also not available in all bitcoin wallets so Dash coin won.

It has nothing to do with opening a channel, which takes as long as confirming a transaction on chain, the channel is already created in this competition.

[blue Snow]

The person doing the lightning transaction would have made some delay while making the transaction.

Yes, it is true that the lightning network needs some preparation before transmission,

Because they aren't use custodial wallet.

Isn't it the receiver must also use LN client to be able receive the bitcoin from the LN of bitcoin? 

off course.

read this : The Lightning Network FAQ

Seems you are just woke up from long sleep.

[pakhitheboss]

24 seconds is a great achievement for Dash. I also thought LN should have won this contest. Is the recover ready to have LN payments as you need that too. Still it is a win win for cryptocurrency as fiat cannot beat that kind of speed.

[yhiaali3]

It has nothing to do with opening a channel, which takes as long as confirming a transaction on chain, the channel is already created in this competition.

I expected that the reason for the delay was to opening a channel, so the channel has nothing to do with the delay.
But I didn't know how long it took to pay the bill using the Bitcoin Lighting network.

[dady12]

Its amazing DASH will now get more investors and it will boost up the DASH ranking I have also read that DASH is officially used in Brazil and one another country I think Venezuela for online bill payments and daily purchase items.

Do you have any info if dash is spreading among Venezuelan businesses?
I mean if they will adopt it right now and will be able to get dash - wallets to pay in grocery stores and etc. it will affect dash' price positively

[hatshepsut93]

I expected that the reason for the delay was to opening a channel, so the channel has nothing to do with the delay.
But I didn't know how long it took to pay the bill using the Bitcoin Lighting network.

The difference between Bitcoin LN and Dash was 0.5 seconds, and keep in mind that this is a total time, so it could have been caused by running code on the backend or frontend and other similar delays that have nothing to do with the network. IMO Lightning is the actual winner here, because you pay at comparable speed, while holding the #1 cryptocurrency in the world, that is the most decentralized and secure, unlike Dash and all other options. I doubt that in the real world anyone cares about a 0.5 second difference.

[Yaunfitda]

If the difference is 0.5 secs, then there's much difference to me. I still prefer which I'm comfortable and that is LN (Lightning Network) if the speed difference is like 10 seconds or more, then you can call it a win Dash.

Of course, there are countries that are going to use Dash as payment method, but I still think that bitcoin can still be a viable option if LN is going to be implemented and used globally.

[Little Mouse]

Was not Lightning Network supposed to be the fastest? What's wrong then? As far as I know Lightning Payments are instant and faster than any other crypto, then how Dash becomes the winner here?
Seems I am in lack of lots of crypto knowledge.

[passwordnow]

Like what other thought, LN is also my first thought to win this transaction race and next is Doge. Regardless of the winner, Dash is a reputable altcoin and it's quicker and better than any altcoin that we know. I have transacted with LTC before and it's not that within secs but I still find it quick. Dash is also known to be the most expensive yet profitable masternodes of all time so having this contest win by them is also a great achievement to DASH community.

[hugeblack]

I was expecting this result and I will give some reasons why Dash excels:

 - Activate multi-phased forks, of Dash version 0.14: ChainLocks^[1] and LLMQ-Based^[2] InstantSend, Dash transactions become FINAL in a second.
 - Reducing the possibility of 51% attacks & reorgs and thus instantly spendable payments: only need two confirmations.
 - Dash has a ~2.6 minutes block interval, meaning for a Dash transaction to be considered confirmed, it requires a 5-minute wait.
 
What are 51% mining attacks?

It occurs when one entity has more hash power than the total combined hash power of all other miners and thus ignores the blocks that other miners have found and only mining new blocks above its own block.

How can Dash solve this?

Using ChainLocks is to perform a verifiable network-wide measurement/vote of the "first-seen" rule. Because LLMQs are randomly generated, if enough members (e.g. >= 60%) of LLMQ members see the block first, more than 60% of the whole network should also have seen it first.
For more read this ---> https://blog.dash.org/mitigating-51-attacks-with-llmq-based-chainlocks-7266aa648ec9

Do not forget:

 - Masternodes (Dash):less crowded ---> many blocks are empty and therefore it is easy to obtain confirmation faster than the lightning network.
 - The confirmation time for the lightning network is less than a minute, so it is possible for Dash to defeat it, but it does not mean that it is the fastest ever.
 - Lightning network needs some settings, such as fund a payment channel, balance would go up and down until you decided to lock that channel.


[1] https://github.com/dashpay/dips/blob/master/dip-0008.md
[2] https://blog.dash.org/introducing-long-living-masternode-quorums-76ea8b23a85a

[qwizzie]

Besides the whole speed thing on one specific site (Bitrefill), i am more interested in knowing which network will provide the strongest security on their transactions and
which transactions have the most chance on succeeding (reaching receiver).

LN :

* Double spending of transactions bugs & vulnerable to bad actors within its system -> https://news.bitcoin.com/hidden-lightning-network-bug-allowed-spending-of-fake-bitcoins/
* Routing problem causing a large part of its transactions to fail  --> https://news.bitcoin.com/researchers-scathing-lightning-network-analysis-finds-flaws/

At this point LN is pretty much still alpha software, that should not be used without knowing all the risks that are associated with using alpha software

'Alpha software is computer software that is still in the early testing phase. ... The "alpha phase" of software development follows the early programming and design stages,
but precedes the ''beta phase" in which the software closely resembles the final version'

LTC :

* Litecoin's transactions rely on proof of work for its security (just like Bitcoin) and it needs a certain number of transaction confirmations, before those transactions gets settled
   on the blockchain and are considered immutable and protected against double spending. Litecoin's blocks are created faster then Bitcoin and it transactions are therefore also
   confirmed faster then Bitcoin, but it is in no way instantly settled and usable by the receiver.
* Litecoin does not have any routing problems like LN has, which means that its transactions will be successful (reaching receiver) when using the correct transaction fee. Settlement will just
   take a certain number of blocks / a certain time.
* Litecoin does have a vulnerability to 51% attacks, inherited from Bitcoin. Most proof of work cryptocurrencies have this vulnerability.

Dash :

* Dash rely on both proof of work and proof of service for sending and settling its transactions on its blockchain. Thanks to Dash masternode network it can settle its transactions within a few
  seconds without the need for waiting a number of a blocks. Its transactions are immediately locked against double spending and after those few seconds also fully spendable by the receiver.
  Currently some 90% of Dash transactions are settled this way, both fully traceable transactions and private transactions.
* Dash does not have any routing problems like LN has, which means that its transactions will be both instant & successful (reaching receiver), when using the correct transaction fee (which is
   lower then Litecoin and i suspect it is even lower then LN heavily subsidized fees).
* Dash does not have a vulnerability to 51% attacks, unlike Bitcoin and Litecoin. ChainLocks protects Dash against 51% attacks.

[yhiaali3]

* Dash does not have any routing problems like LN has, which means that its transactions will be both instant & successful (reaching receiver), when using the correct transaction fee (which is
   lower then Litecoin and i suspect it is even lower then LN heavily subsidized fees).

Thank you for this explanation full of enough technical details, but I have a question about the fees. Do you think Dash fees are lower than LN fees?
For example, if we assume that we will pay a $ 100 phone bill, what will be the Dash fee and how much will the LN fee be? Do you have an idea for that?

[qwizzie]

* Dash does not have any routing problems like LN has, which means that its transactions will be both instant & successful (reaching receiver), when using the correct transaction fee (which is
   lower then Litecoin and i suspect it is even lower then LN heavily subsidized fees).

Thank you for this explanation full of enough technical details, but I have a question about the fees. Do you think Dash fees are lower than LN fees?
For example, if we assume that we will pay a $ 100 phone bill, what will be the Dash fee and how much will the LN fee be? Do you have an idea for that?

I know what Dash, Litecoin and Bitcoin's median transaction fees (in usd) are from bitinfocharts : https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/transactionfees-btc-ltc-dash.html



LN has its own median base fee, which can be found here : https://1ml.com/statistics



This median base fee is currently a fixed 1 satoshi  (which is very very low in usd value, but could increase with a rising Bitcoin price).
From 99 percentiles there is a fixed 5 satoshi fee.

There are talks by Lightning Network devs about raising the minimum median base fee to 5 satoshi, thereby flipping the current fee model and introducing a fee market.
This would most likely make LN median fees more expensive then Dash median fees.

Link : https://www.coindesk.com/as-lightnings-economy-takes-shape-devs-are-split-on-proposed-fee-hike

On the other hand there are also talks about possible raising Dash transaction fees to defend against spamming

Link : https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/minimum-fees.49137/  

For now though it looks like LN has lower fee costs then Dash, that is if the median fees on transactions are comparable to LN median base fee
(so that we are comparing apples with apples) and if LN percentiles stay below 99.

Also there is this to take into consideration :

Experiments they ran using their simulation led them to conclude that the “negligible fees” are massively subsidized by the large Lightning nodes.”
Rosenthal adds that most transactions pay roughly 10% of the cost of their routing, which could potentially work in a different context.

Source : https://news.bitcoin.com/researchers-scathing-lightning-network-analysis-finds-flaws/

[aleix]

Was not Lightning Network supposed to be the fastest? What's wrong then? As far as I know Lightning Payments are instant and faster than any other crypto, then how Dash becomes the winner here?
Seems I am in lack of lots of crypto knowledge.

FYI


https://docs.dash.org/en/stable

https://docs.dash.org/en/stable/wallets/dashcore/privatesend-instantsend.html

https://docs.dash.org/en/stable/developers/integration.html#integration-instantsend

[NeuroticFish]

I can admire how inventive are the Dash promoters.
Of course, there are probably some bits here and there favoring their calculation, which I will not bother reading, however, since most stores don't accept neither Dash nor LN transaction, it doesn't matter at all, isn't it?


PS. Not that I am a fan of Ripple and Co, but why didn't you add proper competition there (XRP, maybe WAVES, maybe others too) which are also fast and very fast (and also not accepted anywhere)?