Paper wallets still good options

[hd49728]

However, as you said, nowadays it's easier to just generate a mnemonic seed and store that one for long term. Human readable words are easier to hide in plain sight than something that clearly looks like a private key.
Just Electrum is not the best example, its seed works only with Electrum. Ian Coleman's tool is a better call.

Yeap, Electrum is only one of SPV wallet. People can choose non-custodial wallet for their preference and do relevant steps to created, secure, and backup their wallets. During the process of create, secure, backup wallets, and during the lifespan, if one mistype their wallets' private keys into the search box of Google or browser's address space, they should move their funds immediately and dispose that wallet forever.

Exposing private keys to search engines is so bad.

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[hatshepsut93]

Paper wallet is cumbersome to use, need good knowledge about it before use and before holding if you want one. It can be burned in fire accident, it can be destroyed by water or other liquids, that is why I do not like it. But for safety, it is still good because its private keys are offline.

There's a lot misconceptions here. Hardware wallet are not immune to elements either, and you'd need a very good fire-proof safe to protect any kind of wallet from those accidents.

Paper or hardware wallets aren't the only methods of storing keys offline, even storing them on a CD, floppy disc or a USB stick still counts as offline storage.

But offline storage alone isn't a guarantee that your keys won't be stolen. Most of the times coins are stolen when you access them, for example when you enter your seed or private key into a fake wallet software, or when you have malware on your computer that logs keystrokes or can steal private keys from RAM. Hardware wallet protects from all that because the key is used in a secure isolated environment. If you want to achieve the same with a paper wallet, you need to make your own cold storage setup.

[Pmalek]

Electrum wallet is an online wallet, I even read is an open source wallet created long time ago, people claimed online wallets are not secure but electeum wallet really is worth of saving bitcoin. We are different people with different opinion though, I just like electrum for saving little amount of bitcoin, and I have coinomi for sophisticated reasons. I do not have hardware wallet for now, but planning to get ledger nano x which I believe has overtook paper wallets trend of last decade.

Electrum is a software wallet. It is a much safer variant than web/online wallets hosted by third parties. Compared to Coinomi it is certainly a better option if we are only talking about a place to store Bitcoin. Coinomi is closed-source but it is a multi-currency wallet which is a plus.

A properly generated paper wallet is the best you can do security wise. Hardware wallets are close but still in 2nd place. And I say that as a hardware wallet user myself. Don't think about hardware wallets as too expensive. Consider how expensive it would be to lose your coins for not paying enough attention on security.

[o_e_l_e_o]

if one mistype their wallets' private keys into the search box of Google or browser's address space, they should move their funds immediately and dispose that wallet forever.

This is true, but in what scenario is someone inputting their private keys in to a search engine? Most people shouldn't even be handling their private keys; that's the whole point of having a secure wallet to handle them for you. Even having your private keys revealed in plain text or copied to your clipboard on a computer with internet access is a risk. I would suggest if you have entered your private key in to a search engine, even accidentally, you look again at your security set up to figure out how and why that even happened. This is a potentially catastrophic and completely preventable mistake.

even storing them on a CD, floppy disc or a USB stick still counts as offline storage.

This is true, but only if the removable media was generated from an airgapped computer and is only ever plugged in to an airgapped computed. If you create a USB stick with private keys from an internet enabled device, that's not offline storage.

A properly generated paper wallet is the best you can do security wise.

I agree, but with the caveat that it is set up properly. A lot of newbies do not have the knowledge or skills to do this, and end up creating insecure paper wallets. For these users, a hardware wallet is a better choice.

[hd49728]

This is true, but in what scenario is someone inputting their private keys in to a search engine? Most people shouldn't even be handling their private keys; that's the whole point of having a secure wallet to handle them for you. Even having your private keys revealed in plain text or copied to your clipboard on a computer with internet access is a risk. I would suggest if you have entered your private key in to a search engine, even accidentally, you look again at your security set up to figure out how and why that even happened. This is a potentially catastrophic and completely preventable mistake.

When they have a transaction need to be confirmed or need to give receiving address to trade partners. When they copy and paste receiving address, they mistakenly copy and paste private key. It is uncommon mistake but I think it can happen. Human can make mistakes and sometimes their mistakes are catastrophic. If they do such mistakes and don't move funds to another wallet, and if that wallet is compromised, that will be a truly catastrophic money-lost lesson.

[enhu]

However, as you said, nowadays it's easier to just generate a mnemonic seed and store that one for long term. Human readable words are easier to hide in plain sight than something that clearly looks like a private key.
Just Electrum is not the best example, its seed works only with Electrum. Ian Coleman's tool is a better call.

Yeap, Electrum is only one of SPV wallet. People can choose non-custodial wallet for their preference and do relevant steps to created, secure, and backup their wallets. During the process of create, secure, backup wallets, and during the lifespan, if one mistype their wallets' private keys into the search box of Google or browser's address space, they should move their funds immediately and dispose that wallet forever.

Exposing private keys to search engines is so bad.

Thats very tight security. I'd not be surprised if someone did search their private key in the url.  Checking perhaps if there is a similar private key with his out of curiosity I guess.

But this is why before doing something, one has to double-check to make sure all are correct. If you have mistakenly sent funds before, you should be checked many times if possible before executing the transaction. You'd be thinking over and over why and how before you sleep if you mistakenly did it even if its just $200 worht of BTC.

[Oshosondy]

A properly generated paper wallet is the best you can do security wise.

I agree, but with the caveat that it is set up properly. A lot of newbies do not have the knowledge or skills to do this, and end up creating insecure paper wallets. For these users, a hardware wallet is a better choice.

That is what I am trying to say, hardware wallets are just better, paper wallets are complex, it is the type of wallet I can not use. With the current situation of bitcoin price, I prefer hardware wallets than using a complex, hard to know paper wallet.

[o_e_l_e_o]

When they copy and paste receiving address, they mistakenly copy and paste private key.

Genuine question - which wallet are you using where extracting your private key as simple as copying the wrong field? Most wallets will require you to go in to the console (such as dumpprivkey in Bitcoin Core), or go through a specific menu and click on a specific option to access your private key (such as Electrum). Copying your private key shouldn't be as easy as hitting Ctrl+C with the wrong field selected.

That is what I am trying to say, hardware wallets are just better, paper wallets are complex

There's no doubt that paper wallets are more complex than hardware wallets, but that doesn't necessarily make hardware wallets "better". It depends on what you are looking for in a wallet. Hardware wallets are easier to use and more convenient, sure, but securely generated paper wallets are better for long term cold storage than hardware wallets are.

[20kevin20]

Genuine question - which wallet are you using where extracting your private key as simple as copying the wrong field? Most wallets will require you to go in to the console (such as dumpprivkey in Bitcoin Core), or go through a specific menu and click on a specific option to access your private key (such as Electrum). Copying your private key shouldn't be as easy as hitting Ctrl+C with the wrong field selected.

For paper wallets, you could do that if you store your private keys & addresses in a plain text or PDF file. Back when I used them, there were times when I even scanned the privkey instead of the address by mistake as I did not fold the privkey part of the printed wallet.

Especially as a newbie, this could easily happen - it's the lack of basic crypto knowledge and the huge lack of basic cybersecurity education at its best; I could bet a significant part of BTC holders keep a copy of the paper wallets or .dat files in cloud storage as "backup".

[o_e_l_e_o]

For paper wallets, you could do that if you store your private keys & addresses in a plain text or PDF file.

Sure, but that goes back to the point I made in my post further up this page. Having such easy access to your private key(s) is a security risk, especially for newbies who may not fully understand those risks. Obviously you should never have your private keys saved in plain text, and the whole point of using a good wallet is to handle your private keys for you to reduce the risk of something going wrong. If the wallet openly displays your private keys and makes it so easy to copy them that a single misclick can leak them, then your wallet is barely any better than a text file and I would suggest re-examining your security set up and taking steps to prevent this from happening.

I could bet a significant part of BTC holders keep a copy of the paper wallets or .dat files in cloud storage as "backup".

Oh absolutely. There are also a worrying number of people who store private data in web based email accounts like Googlemail. You have absolutely no idea just how many servers around the world now have a copy of your private keys on them and just how many people have remote or even physical access to those servers. It's even worse than using a web wallet, and that's saying something.

[libert19]

Write seed on paper, and give it in a custody of bank. The best of both worlds. 

They are good for long term storage, if you do transactions frequently and want security then hardware wallets are good.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Write seed on paper, and give it in a custody of bank. The best of both worlds.

I'm not sure it is. That set up involves a lot of trust in a third party (the bank), which I would not be comfortable giving them. Are you absolutely sure no one at the bank will ever take a peek at the piece of paper you give them to store? Even if you go in to their vault yourself and lock it in a safe deposit box yourself, you have absolutely no way of knowing that they don't have another key which can open your box. You are placing complete trust in their security set up and their staff.

If you are going to trust a third party to hold your seed for you, be it a bank, a lawyer, a friend, whomever, then it would be a wise move to encrypt it first.

[libert19]

Write seed on paper, and give it in a custody of bank. The best of both worlds.

I'm not sure it is. That set up involves a lot of trust in a third party (the bank), which I would not be comfortable giving them. Are you absolutely sure no one at the bank will ever take a peek at the piece of paper you give them to store? Even if you go in to their vault yourself and lock it in a safe deposit box yourself, you have absolutely no way of knowing that they don't have another key which can open your box. You are placing complete trust in their security set up and their staff.

If you are going to trust a third party to hold your seed for you, be it a bank, a lawyer, a friend, whomever, then it would be a wise move to encrypt it first.

My bad, you are right. Encrypted seed (in pen drive or similar storage)+ bank vault would be best of both worlds.

[hosseinimr93]

Paper wallet, hardware wallets, mobile wallets and PC wallets all have private keys or recovery seed to keep safe isn't it? I don't understand how one is safer than the other,

There are many wallets that don't give you the private key or the seed phrase. There are also some wallets that give you the private key, but they are not safe. Because they have access to your private keys as well. For example, blockchain wallet give you the seed phrase and you can recover your wallet using your seed phrase at any time, but since the wallet is not open source, that's not safe. Because we don't know whether they have access to our private key and seed phrase or not.

[hatshepsut93]

My bad, you are right. Encrypted seed (in pen drive or similar storage)+ bank vault would be best of both worlds.

Even then the seed might be seized by the government if for example they will decide to outlaw crypto and will have a suspicion that this is a Bitcoin private key, and while they wouldn't take your coins if the encryption is strong, you might be locked out of your coins if it's the only copy. If you want to be even more safe and store coins in bank for decades, it would be better to first use steganography to hide the encrypted seed in some innocent files, like family photos, and then optionally encrypt the photos. So, in case something like what I described will happen, you'll have plausible deniability and might even avoid raising any suspicion.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Paper wallet, hardware wallets, mobile wallets and PC wallets all have private keys or recovery seed to keep safe isn't it? I don't understand how one is safer than the other

Paper wallets, airgapped PC or mobile wallets, and (good) hardware wallets are all permanently offline. Your private keys and seed phrases are therefore safe from any attack via the internet or any malware.

Wallets on a PC or mobile device with internet access are vulnerable to attackers accessing your device via the internet or to malware transmitting your keys or seed phrase to a malicious third party via the internet.

anyways, I use zip and rar files to keep my recovery seed after writing in PDF file, then I use strong password on the zip/rar file

If you have done this on a non-airgapped computer (i.e. a computer with internet access, even if you disconnected from the internet while you did it), then your coins are at risk. Your seed has been saved on your computer in plain text, and could well still exist on your hard drive even if you have deleted the unzipped PDF file. It could have been or could be accessed by malware or a malicious attacker. Further, you need to ensure that the compression software you are using uses a proper encryption algorithm when password protecting files.

[Velkro]

Why paper wallet is not encouraged now
I will say paper wallet is not good to use now, because of the price of bitcoin, it is good in the past when bitcoin price was rising but unlike now, a good holder need a hardware wallet [...]

Paper wallet is cumbersome to use, need good knowledge about it before use and before holding if you want one.

I can't agree here.
Both have their use and have their advantages and disadvantages.
For example paper wallet is free. You can print it or just write your keys on piece of paper, done.
Hardware wallet is somewhat expensive and you must trust software it contains and its wallet. you must trust delivery and manufacturing so a little bit too much trust there.
Paper wallet can't fool you and its free.

[notblox1]

Paper wallet can stil be great for keeping and holding your crypto and bitcoin,
but only if you create it offline and in proper way.
Lot of people are not doing it in correct way or they they become victims of phishing scam.
Good to readbitcoin wiki page on paper wallets:
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Paper_wallet

[Tash]

I have a hardware wallet which i used once for some time. Emty now, just laying around.
Paperwallets is king for long term. For smaller, mobile or destop

[gentlemand]

My bad, you are right. Encrypted seed (in pen drive or similar storage)+ bank vault would be best of both worlds.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/19/business/safe-deposit-box-theft.html

You'd never catch me doing such a thing.

And bank vaults are a dying breed at least where I am. The nearest one to me is about 150 miles away and they're closing at a fast rate.

I may well go back to paper wallets for funds that have no intention of moving for a long time. They worked for me in the past. I get the feeling hardware wallets will get ever more holes uncovered.