Suggestion: Make it just a little more difficult to create a new account.

[Timelord2067]

Another suggestion I'd agree with is to withdraw the Copper Membership in it's entirety - Newbies just see it as a fast track to post with images and then boost their accounts with bells and whistles while lacking substance in their posts.

[1713946217]

1713946217

[LoyceV]

Another suggestion I'd agree with is to withdraw the Copper Membership in it's entirety - Newbies just see it as a fast track to post with images and then boost their accounts with bells and whistles while lacking substance in their posts.

They risk losing $24 by buying a Copper Membership and getting it banned. I don't think they'll keep buying new Memberships.

[zasad@]

One can create 30 accounts here in probably 5 minutes or less.  There isn't even an email confirmation needed to create an account so one can just put in a random anything.  At least confirm someone's registration email actually exists. I think that will help avoid a lot of junk users.  Def not foolproof but way better than not even confirming an email one uses even if it's a "throwaway" email.

Registering by email or phone number will not solve the problems with fraud. There are many services on the Internet with temporary emails and phone numbers, they are either free or very cheap. One user said a brilliant phrase: “Why make scammers smarter?”
A fraudster can create a new account, but he still uses old accounts on social networks. It will be caught and painted in red.

[NavI_027]

Registering by email or phone number will not solve the problems with fraud. There are many services on the Internet with temporary emails and phone numbers, they are either free or very cheap.

Yeah you're right. It really seems that it doesn't make any contributions at all because at the end of the day the fraudsters will always find a way but I don't see with improving the forum's system as well. So why not ? Fraudsters might not be affected but I think spammers will do. They may realize that undergoing several stages just to make an account for spamming is not worth of their time anymore — this means less pollution inside.

[Timelord2067]

Another suggestion I'd agree with is to withdraw the Copper Membership in it's entirety - Newbies just see it as a fast track to post with images and then boost their accounts with bells and whistles while lacking substance in their posts.

They risk losing $24 by buying a Copper Membership and getting it banned. I don't think they'll keep buying new Memberships.

You can make $24 in one week participating in a SigCamp.

Registering by email or phone number will not solve the problems with fraud. There are many services on the Internet with temporary emails and phone numbers, they are either free or very cheap.

Not to mention the temporary phone number services already offered here in the bitcointalk forum "services" sub-section and probably other places, less obvious.

[Charles-Tim]

In my opinion, the merit system is enough to shapen this forum, even  creating two accounts will be hard for newbies to develop, it takes time to even develop one account to Hero rank not to talk of Legendary. Most of the new accounts are for bounties but if not for bounties, it will be hard for a single person to develop two accounts.

I like this forum because we are many, if our population is reduced to thousands from the present millions, this forum will actually not be in balance, many signature campaigns will leave, many people will not be able to join or register for bounty campaigns, in a negative feedback, many of us will leave, the members will reduce until Bitcointalk fold up.

[Timelord2067]

I like this forum because we are many, if our population is reduced to thousands from the present millions,

Although there are well over two million (and closing in on three million) registered users here on bitcointalk, the actual numbers of day-to-day participation is closer to around ten thousand UID's (and that includes all the scammers with the farmed accounts)

[philipma1957]

Making new account harder to create will only scare genuine new people, and it will not stop scammers and spammers.
Even now lot of people report that they can't create account until they pay evil fee, as they probable use shared IP address.
But adding some sign up quiz random questions can maybe slow spammers down

answering 3 Questions that need a little research may work.

or better yet 3 math problems.
add three 3 digit numbers

111+123+140 =   374    

or four problems

add four 4 digit numbers

1001+1002+1003+1004 = 4010

Yeah have a script generate 4 random number tell the person add the 4.

once a correct answer is given have a 60 second clock count down to next set of four 4 digit numbers

so time delay between the random generated math problems

slow it down

1 wait 60 second for second
2 wait 60 second for third
3 wait 60 second for fourth

that is 3 minutes and the added time to add the four problems up so  5 or more minutes to do an anonymous email account

seems pretty doable but as I have said before I can't code and have zero idea how hard this would be to code.

it would make for a delay for every new account.
Every new account could still be  anonymous!

[famososMuertos]

I do not think the problem is a new account, but the use that is given to each one, if!.So is only a matter of time to determine who is misusing the accounts, how kindly the forum allows.

The forum has its rules and in the practical it is the best defense for useless accounts or those who want to cheat, I think it is preferable to motivate users to make reports to the moderator.

[PrimeNumber7]

Making new account harder to create will only scare genuine new people, and it will not stop scammers and spammers.
Even now lot of people report that they can't create account until they pay evil fee, as they probable use shared IP address.
But adding some sign up quiz random questions can maybe slow spammers down

answering 3 Questions that need a little research may work.

or better yet 3 math problems.
add three 3 digit numbers

111+123+140 =   374    

or four problems

add four 4 digit numbers

1001+1002+1003+1004 = 4010

Yeah have a script generate 4 random number tell the person add the 4.

once a correct answer is given have a 60 second clock count down to next set of four 4 digit numbers

This wouldn’t be difficult to implement, but it also would not be difficult to bypass via a bot parsing the numbers being displayed and solving the problem. Parsing handwritten numbers is considered the “hello world” of neural networks (machine learning models often used on images), and the bar to beat this countermeasure would be low.

The only real way to prevent bots from solving problems is to use a Adversarial network that adds noise to images that the user needs to classify. This is difficult without knowing the model a potential adversary is using to classify the image via automation. 

[actmyname]

This wouldn’t be difficult to implement, but it also would not be difficult to bypass via a bot parsing the numbers being displayed and solving the problem. Parsing handwritten numbers is considered the “hello world” of neural networks (machine learning models often used on images), and the bar to beat this countermeasure would be low.

Any arithmetic or word re-entry question would be an easy workaround for account spammers. Specific image recognition is harder considering one would have to have input material to gauge the data. I certainly wouldn't mind a "this IP is evil" marker ere to account registration, though: you might say that it would be a tool better used by those that are mass-creating accounts, but given that the difference for them is changing usernames and exit node connections for their network, I think the benefits are more in the Newbies' favor.

What would your reaction be, if your first experience signing up to the forum was to be slammed in the face with a paywall? There goes that username, by the way... unless you want to pay up!

[FIFA worldcup]

One can create 30 accounts here in probably 5 minutes or less.  There isn't even an email confirmation needed to create an account so one can just put in a random anything.  At least confirm someone's registration email actually exists. I think that will help avoid a lot of junk users.  Def not foolproof but way better than not even confirming an email one uses even if it's a "throwaway" email.

As far as I know you cannot create 30 accounts at the same time and that too in 5 mins   A super human can be that fast.

If you are using a clean IP, after creating 3 or 4 accounts you will get an IP ban (Evil IP) on the account and to activate those accounts you need to pay a small portion of bitcoins. So you have to pay for those accounts if you want to post from them.

[PrimeNumber7]

This wouldn’t be difficult to implement, but it also would not be difficult to bypass via a bot parsing the numbers being displayed and solving the problem. Parsing handwritten numbers is considered the “hello world” of neural networks (machine learning models often used on images), and the bar to beat this countermeasure would be low.

Any arithmetic or word re-entry question would be an easy workaround for account spammers. Specific image recognition is harder considering one would have to have input material to gauge the data. I certainly wouldn't mind a "this IP is evil" marker ere to account registration, though: you might say that it would be a tool better used by those that are mass-creating accounts, but given that the difference for them is changing usernames and exit node connections for their network, I think the benefits are more in the Newbies' favor.

What would your reaction be, if your first experience signing up to the forum was to be slammed in the face with a paywall? There goes that username, by the way... unless you want to pay up!

It is not difficult to classify images using a neural network. Take a look at this competition in kaggle. Data scientists created models to classify pictures of flowers into one of 100 different types of flowers. I don’t think even most flower experts would be able to classify flowers as well as some of the models created were able to. There are publicly available models that can classify images into one of a broad range of categories.

I don’t think it is unreasonable to have a cheap paywall for certain IP addresses. Most people are able to pay a few dollars to sign up for a forum account, but this is prohibitively expensive for a spammer signing up hundreds/thousands of accounts.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Such junk accounts would likely get nuked eventually.

Or sold, although that isn't likely to happen these days since it would take a monumental effort to rank up multiple accounts from scratch.  And given that it is in fact almost impossible to farm accounts since the introduction of the merit system, I don't really think we need to make it more difficult for anyone to register here.  I'm not even sure people are creating 20, 30, or 100 accounts like they were back in 2015-17 when all it took to rank them up was to post regularly. 

Having a bunch of Jr. Member accounts doesn't really get you all that much nowadays, right?  I guess you could still participate in bounties, but the whole reason people were farming accounts a few years ago was to maximize earnings for signature campaigns if I'm not mistaken--and the only way a newcomer can hope to control a Hero or Legendary account right now is if they buy one. 

[Upgrade00]

I'm not even sure people are creating 20, 30, or 100 accounts like they were back in 2015-17 when all it took to rank them up was to post regularly. 

I also don't think so, the period you cited was when Bitcoin had the most buzz around it and ICOs were benefiting from the hype, hence creating multiple low-ranked accounts on the forum must have been productive as some of the ICO bounties I've seen accepted Jr members who did not need a single merit to rank up even after the merit system was initiated.

The buzz of that period have quietened down and ICOs are not as popular anymore, the enhanced newbie restrictions has also worked to limit the growth of account farms, there may still be a few from back then, but it's a diminishing system.

[philipma1957]

Making new account harder to create will only scare genuine new people, and it will not stop scammers and spammers.
Even now lot of people report that they can't create account until they pay evil fee, as they probable use shared IP address.
But adding some sign up quiz random questions can maybe slow spammers down

answering 3 Questions that need a little research may work.

or better yet 3 math problems.
add three 3 digit numbers

111+123+140 =   374    

or four problems

add four 4 digit numbers

1001+1002+1003+1004 = 4010

Yeah have a script generate 4 random number tell the person add the 4.

once a correct answer is given have a 60 second clock count down to next set of four 4 digit numbers

This wouldn’t be difficult to implement, but it also would not be difficult to bypass via a bot parsing the numbers being displayed and solving the problem. Parsing handwritten numbers is considered the “hello world” of neural networks (machine learning models often used on images), and the bar to beat this countermeasure would be low.

The only real way to prevent bots from solving problems is to use a Adversarial network that adds noise to images that the user needs to classify. This is difficult without knowing the model a potential adversary is using to classify the image via automation. 

It is not so much that the numbers can be added quickly as it is the delay from

question 1 correct answer to question 2
 correct answer to question 3
correct answer to question 4

the bot will have to wait 60 seconds to answer next question  it can not speed the delay of 60 seconds.

so that is 3 minutes no matter what.

you could also have a hidden timer.  say 5234 + 1284 + 7345 + 4567 = ?  a real human would have a calculator and add the 4 numbers in about 10 seconds to 30 seconds  the answer is 18430


So first question gives 4 numbers randomly  and randomly assigns a time slot to give answer in  30 to 55 seconds

so first question pops up  person adds 4 numbers and wait for time slot this is at least 30+ seconds.
then 1 minute timer for second question to appear.   now we are up to 90+ seconds add random time slot we are past 2 minutes

wait 1 minute to see third question assign random time slot  3 minutes and 30=50 seconds more and 4 minutes time minimum has past.

wait 1 minute for last question up to 5 minutes assign random time slot and close to 6 minutes to do a free unknown account.

If you want to do things fast you can give money and a traceable confirmed email.

So fast sign up is money and verified email.

Slow unknown is play the adding and timing game.

[UmerIdrees]

Such junk accounts would likely get nuked eventually.

Or sold, although that isn't likely to happen these days since it would take a monumental effort to rank up multiple accounts from scratch.  And given that it is in fact almost impossible to farm accounts since the introduction of the merit system, I don't really think we need to make it more difficult for anyone to register here.  I'm not even sure people are creating 20, 30, or 100 accounts like they were back in 2015-17 when all it took to rank them up was to post regularly. 

Having a bunch of Jr. Member accounts doesn't really get you all that much nowadays, right?  I guess you could still participate in bounties, but the whole reason people were farming accounts a few years ago was to maximize earnings for signature campaigns if I'm not mistaken--and the only way a newcomer can hope to control a Hero or Legendary account right now is if they buy one. 

There is no reason for anyone to create multiple accounts or bulk accounts because they wont be able to rank up. There might be few people who still making accounts to participate in the bounties but even if they are doing it, they are just wasting their time and efforts.
If anyone wants to earn money from bounty or campaigns, a better option is to have a single account and focus on it to get high ranks. It takes a lifetime to rank one account from Newbie to Legendary now-a-days.

[actmyname]

-snip-If you want to do things fast you can give money and a traceable confirmed email.

So fast sign up is money and verified email.

Slow unknown is play the adding and timing game.

Here's the crutch:

Assume we do implement the system of "wait and calculate" where we use numbers. Actually, let's make this a steel man and say there's a bit more involvement. If there is any route for this to become automated (I have seen data entry for captchas et al from years ago) then it absolutely will be - your bottleneck is not the wait time. One would need to determine the identity of the user that is registering the accounts, otherwise you could just open the registration in a different session (i.e. switching IP/fingerprint/etc).

This is what happens when the account spammers decide to attack your method: they take the 5 minute hit, and then start pumping out accounts past that point since concurrent registration is possible.

[philipma1957]

-snip-If you want to do things fast you can give money and a traceable confirmed email.

So fast sign up is money and verified email.

Slow unknown is play the adding and timing game.

Here's the crutch:

Assume we do implement the system of "wait and calculate" where we use numbers. Actually, let's make this a steel man and say there's a bit more involvement. If there is any route for this to become automated (I have seen data entry for captchas et al from years ago) then it absolutely will be - your bottleneck is not the wait time. One would need to determine the identity of the user that is registering the accounts, otherwise you could just open the registration in a different session (i.e. switching IP/fingerprint/etc).

This is what happens when the account spammers decide to attack your method: they take the 5 minute hit, and then start pumping out accounts past that point since concurrent registration is possible.

Which would be only worth while to do if coins take a bull run again.

I have a lot of pc's with different ip's scattered about nj

Lets say I want to make 15 'fake' anon accounts a day .
 I need 3 pc's doing it on 3 ip's I have 3 separate tips and internet accounts.
so there is the setup time.
Writing a script to do it.
 Once I do 3 on my ip i have to reset my ip's if i don't want to pay for owning an evil ip. 
Yeah I could do it at no gear cost as I have the gear.

I have separate pc's and internet services.

In fact i don't need a scrypt I could manually do 3 at a time using teamviewer for 2 not in my house and 1 using my house's ineter net.

So yeah 30 minutes to maybe 60 minute a day.  I could do 9 accounts.

I would think a lot of people have access to many more internet accounts then I do.

So then 'free' accounts would need longer timers than my suggested amounts.

And it may just succeed in normal good people saying fuck it. I won't bother.

[malevolent]

No, clearly. But the idea is to slow them down, not to stop them.
I'd add something extra: allow creation of only one account per computer/user/browser. Yeah, it's also weak, but it'll earn a few extra seconds too.

And as long as the forum keeps IP logs, I find all the discussion about extra privacy rather useless. I believe that the ones who want to enforce their privacy will research/know what to do with or without the mail confirmation requirements.

IP addresses aren't stored indefinitely, though.

https://bitcointalk.org/privacy.php

Some among the most clueless and/or careless of users might still want to have a little bit more anonymity, too.