Working online for bitcoin - would you give this up?

[Vod]

Let's say I can offer you a minimum of $1USD an hour (in crypto) just for being online and available.

Examples would include:
- voting on various items
- updating/ verifying information
- real time ($$) vs time period ($)
- gaming tournaments

My new project is committed to building infrastructure with security, anonymity and automation at it's core.  You only need to be a club member and a real person to participate, and I do not care where you are from, how old you are or what your nature/nurture system is (gender/religion/etc)

I would have a third party verify the same person is always doing the work, using biometric liveness.    By using Amazon lifecycle rules, you can publicly verify that any data is destroyed after being processed.   

So as long as I got a heartbeat from this service that your account number is available, you would start earning crypto and I would have no idea who you are - just that you are unique.  You will gain experience points in individual areas, and could be paid more during "surge events" ($$$) where a company needs data processed in bulk and speed.

I will have this service create a GUI that allows you to make yourself available/unavailable easily, with obvious indication - but your camera would need to be uncovered when you are available.

Would you give up this private info temporarily to an anonymous/automated service in exchange to working at home when you want?  If no, what are your concerns?

Comments/questions welcome. 

[1713286866]

1713286866

[target]

Hire me Vod. I wouldn't mind $1 an hour as long as I can work along while staying also in bitcointalk and can browse somewhere else too. Is it going to be in BTC?

I have no idea about the biometric liveness though  

Also keep in mind that Vod has a history of posting personal information of users on this forum.

KYC would be a problem indeed. I just read the description thoroughly.
A $1 may not be huge for some but its worth good for the country where I am. People needs job in times like this.

[joniboini]

I'd be interested if not for the access for my camera, or if that's required I won't do that for $1/hour. My current freelance project does not need any personal data except e-mail and stuff like that but I got around $5/hour, so that rate is definitely not interesting. I understand the necessity to make sure it's not a bot though.

What if you insert a captcha every once in a while or after each task is done? Don't know how feasible it is though.

[cryptomaniac_xxx]

The "access to your camera" is a big concern obviously, and as we all know, webcam hijacking is another mode of attack, i.e. spying. What if this GUI itself gets hack?

[Vod]

KYC would be a problem indeed. I just read the description thoroughly.
A $1 may not be huge for some but its worth good for the country where I am. People needs job in times like this.

There will be no KYC.  There is a third party that simply validate you are in front of your computer.  I would have no access to anything, other than the code they give you that shows you are available.   You attach that code to your Club profile, to start receiving actual BTC. 

You need to get away from the idea of trust that never works with humans.  Even the most honest of people can be forced (violence, blackmail, bribery etc) to reveal information. Cryptography allows information to be automatically accessed and destroyed in a controlled, provable way.   Even if someone sent me 10 bitcoin, I could not access information other than this number did work at this time. 

$1/hour is the minimum this service will pay.  I'm looking at spreading the wealth around - I'm hoping thousands of people will consider $1/hour in crypto to be worth answering questions.

Those who are old enough may remember All Advantage, which paid $1.25US/hour, plus referral bonuses.  Great idea, but it relied on advertising income.  My GUI is just a browser extension with a noticeable indication you are available.   Jobs could flash, open a new tab, etc.  The task would have a scenario and some resolutions for example.  The majority wins and in some cases winning/losing increases certain attributes.  For example, one incorrect answer is worth less than one correct answer.

Hire me Vod.

I'll send you a member sponsorship when I launch. 

The "access to your camera" is a big concern obviously, and as we all know, webcam hijacking is another mode of attack, i.e. spying. What if this GUI itself gets hack?

I agree with you, which is why I will recommend you cover your camera except for when you are at your computer actively available for work.   I will not be doing any programming myself, but the extension I release will access the camera only through the OS and not directly.   

What if you insert a captcha every once in a while or after each task is done? Don't know how feasible it is though.

Feasible, but it just proves you are not a bot.  I don't care about your IP, email, etc - so a bad actor could make hundreds of accounts and eventually control the voting automation.

There are facial captchas, but again you'd be uncovering your camera after every task.   I don't see any other way of proving you are unique without requiring any PII.

[target]

Hire me Vod.

I'll send you a member sponsorship when I launch. 

Great. I can work that out. I'll wait for the launch.  I haven't been on the internet during the time when AllAdvantage reign but I have some experience with Paid to Surf jobs.  

There are facial captchas, but again you'd be uncovering your camera after every task.   I don't see any other way of proving you are unique without requiring any PII.

A captcha every once in awhile sound a little better to me than having a camera that will scan our faces every task. If you are allowing bad actors to have hundreds of accounts, how are the accounts and votes going to be unique?

[Harlot]

Depends on how you define "available" for being online. If being available means to you being focused solely on doing the tasks given to the users I believe 1$ won't cut it for example you will just be earning 8$ for 8 hours worth of work and that's only 240$ for a month. But if "available" means to you is it doesn't intrude on other tasks such as their main work I think people will find it attractive. It will be a bonus if they can choose what type of work they want to handle as it will be much easier for them to manage it as a side income.

[LeGaulois]

Considering the number of people using Amazon Mechanical Turk and the number of people trying to apply to join the platform I would say the rate won't be a problem.

I used myself platforms similar to what you're thinking and the KYC was mandatory (although a light verification), yet it didn't stop people to work on it (Sometimes the webcam was used to study eyes movements or facial expressions) and I'm talking about over 100k persons.

So don't worry about that, I can guarantee you won't have a problem finding people to complete the jobs.

#Moneymatters

[Vod]

Depends on how you define "available" for being online.

Great question!  "Available" just means you are in front of the computer available to do quick tasks that may pop up.  You can do anything you normally do while being available.

So don't worry about that, I can guarantee you won't have a problem finding people to complete the jobs.

Thanks for that insight - I'll take your guarantee.   What compensation do I Get if you are wrong?   

[rhomelmabini]

Any estimates how many works to be done within an hour? Why does camera still needed when you are online and doing some stuff, does it falls on the biometric liveness kind of thing? Was it only fix $1/hour or it will still varies depending on the work you're working?

[Harlot]

Depends on how you define "available" for being online.

Great question!  "Available" just means you are in front of the computer available to do quick tasks that may pop up.  You can do anything you normally do while being available.

If that is the case then I think a lot of people will see it attractive as long as it doesn't disturb on what they are doing. Also are these task as soon as it pops out in their computer would the users have some kind of deadline/allotted time for them to finish it before the task disappears and becomes invalid in your part? I see that this is also an important part for people who can't do the task right away.

[Vod]

Also are these task as soon as it pops out in their computer would the users have some kind of deadline/allotted time for them to finish it before the task disappears and becomes invalid in your part? I see that this is also an important part for people who can't do the task right away.

Most would be "micro tasks" that require a response within 15 seconds or so, or it moves to the next person.  I would need an example of someone who would be "Available" but could not do a task right away.

[Vod]

No, i would find better paying jobs which have better privacy.

Can I ask what privacy is lacking?  My method gives up no information all your utilities don't know - you are at home using power, water, etc.  They can deduce how often you shower, what temp you like your home at, etc.  The only privacy you give up is that you are available to work, and that isn't even stored - only the tasks you do.

I'm not interested with the job, but are there any rough estimation how many hours you could work (on average) in a day?

Not yet - I'm still working out the numbers.  My goal is to increase crypto usage, so the number of services I can offer will determine how many hours per day a person can work.

[LoyceV]

I will have this service create a GUI that allows you to make yourself available/unavailable easily, with obvious indication - but your camera would need to be uncovered when you are available.

This is a deal breaker for me.

There will be no KYC.  There is a third party that simply validate you are in front of your computer.  I would have no access to anything, other than the code they give you that shows you are available.

I'd have a very hard time trusting the third party will keep the video absolutely private, and for $1 per hour I certainly won't risk it.

My goal is to increase crypto usage, so the number of services I can offer will determine how many hours per day a person can work.

Can you give an example of a task that would be worth paying $1 for someone sitting at his computer for an hour?

But many people from 3rd world find $1/hour is good offer.

Top 20 countries with the lowest wages shows several countries in which $1/hour is above average. They won't turn a profit from advertising (they can't afford to buy most products), so I'm curious what kind of tasks pay for this. If you're paying $1/hour, you'll potentially have millions of employees.

[Vod]

Top 20 countries with the lowest wages shows several countries in which $1/hour is above average. They won't turn a profit from advertising (they can't afford to buy most products)

Right now it looks to cost about $0.09 (0.000 007 5 Bitcoin) to have something manually verified.  I'm developing partnerships to have a certain number of tasks coming in per hour - I'm not going to be relying on advertising income.

If you're paying $1/hour, you'll potentially have millions of employees.

Club membership is for crypto enthusiasts.   There are a number of requirements, and the invitations are private to start.   I want to attract people that use crypto and are willing to spend it on other online services.  I don't want to attract people that don't care about crypto and just want to make money.  

I'd have a very hard time trusting the third party will keep the video absolutely private, and for $1 per hour I certainly won't risk it.

I'd be interested in figuring out a way they could not access the videos - seeing as there is no human interaction needed. 

[hatshepsut93]

Well, I think most people who visit this board are some sort of skilled workers who won't lift their finger for $1/hour, myself included. This shouldn't discourage you, because there's a lot of people out there who do grueling data entry or captcha jobs for even smaller payments. If you'll find a way to reach out this audience, you won't have any problem with getting users.

[cryptomaniac_xxx]

The "access to your camera" is a big concern obviously, and as we all know, webcam hijacking is another mode of attack, i.e. spying. What if this GUI itself gets hack?

I agree with you, which is why I will recommend you cover your camera except for when you are at your computer actively available for work.   I will not be doing any programming myself, but the extension I release will access the camera only through the OS and not directly.   

I remember joining such groups years ago, but it didn't require any facial recognition, so I guess it really evolved. Anyhow, how about another options similar to odesk or what we now today as upwork? Wherein your screen are being recorded doing the job? I guess it is much worst as far as security is. I will subscribe to this thread and wait for any release or update.

[ABCbits]

No, i would find better paying jobs which have better privacy.

Can I ask what privacy is lacking?  My method gives up no information all your utilities don't know - you are at home using power, water, etc.  They can deduce how often you shower, what temp you like your home at, etc.  The only privacy you give up is that you are available to work, and that isn't even stored - only the tasks you do.

Just like everyone, the usage of camera. I know we don't have much privacy these days, but i won't make it any worse.

If you're paying $1/hour, you'll potentially have millions of employees.

Club membership is for crypto enthusiasts.   There are a number of requirements, and the invitations are private to start.   I want to attract people that use crypto and are willing to spend it on other online services.  I don't want to attract people that don't care about crypto and just want to make money. 

IMO crypto enthusiasts usually also privacy enthusiasts who likely to reject your invitation due to privacy concern.

[examplens]

There will be no KYC.  There is a third party that simply validate you are in front of your computer.  I would have no access to anything, other than the code they give you that shows you are available.

I'd have a very hard time trusting the third party will keep the video absolutely private, and for $1 per hour I certainly won't risk it.

yes, this pretty much violates privacy. there are already applications that track the activity on the computer, may freelance services use it to control working hours. Vod says they haven't access to anything, hackers also haven't access to anything, but almost every day we hear about a new hack and certain complications that as result. for example the last thing with the Twitter hack, who put a lot of money into a security.
I don't think the information is safe there, especially if your program comes out of anonymity, become famous and pay attention to possible available data.

although when I think about it, I'm not sure what anyone could do with my video of me sitting at a desk.

[SFR10]

I don't see any other way of proving you are unique without requiring any PII.

I'm not a coder/developer but perhaps there might be a way in the extension itself to assign unique digital signature/print for each computer/device.
<sup>- I do know it won't completely eliminate this issue but it'll significantly reduce the chances of someone abusing it.
- AFAIK, it'll have only a minor impact when it comes to deanonymizing.</sup>

Great question!  "Available" just means you are in front of the computer available to do quick tasks that may pop up.  You can do anything you normally do while being available.

Most would be "micro tasks" that require a response within 15 seconds or so, or it moves to the next person.  I would need an example of someone who would be "Available" but could not do a task right away.

• If a certain task moves to the next person ^{[even though they were available but somehow couldn't deliver it]}, they won't be receiving anything. Am I right?
• What I'm also trying to understand is how the timer works?
  ^{- Does it count only when we're doing the tasks?}

[Vod]

Well, I think most people who visit this board are some sort of skilled workers who won't lift their finger for $1/hour, myself included.

Once my club members prove their skills, I'm sure we can accept specialized tasks at a higher pay rate.  Consider the $1 a "proof of concept" if you wish, although $1 is more than enough for millions of skilled workers if they are in developing countries

I'm not a coder/developer but perhaps there might be a way in the extension itself to assign unique digital signature/print for each computer/device.

The extension could not have access rights to escape a virtual container.  A scammer can create hundreds of virtual machines and flip between them.

• If a certain task moves to the next person ^{[even though they were available but somehow couldn't deliver it]}, they won't be receiving anything. Am I right?
• What I'm also trying to understand is how the timer works?
  ^{- Does it count only when we're doing the tasks?}

WIP:  User will receive notification of task.  They will have xx seconds to accept, or they will become unavailable, and the task will be offered to the next user.  You will also become unavailable if the camera can't see you.  In either case, you just need to set yourself as available again.

You are paid per hour of available time - not just the seconds spent doing the task.

Vod says they haven't access to anything, hackers also haven't access to anything, but almost every day we hear about a new hack and certain complications that as result. for example the last thing with the Twitter hack, who put a lot of money into a security.
I don't think the information is safe there, especially if your program comes out of anonymity, become famous and pay attention to possible available data.

Hackers can only access unencrypted information.  In the twitter hack, like most hacks, they were helped by an insider.    If no human can access the encrypted data, and this is provable, then a hacker cannot touch it.  

although when I think about it, I'm not sure what anyone could do with my video of me sitting at a desk.

I really doubt the service would be storing these videos.  All they need is encrypted data of what you look like, then they scan the images coming in to see if you are there.  There would be no reason to keep the information after that.   If this third party uses AWS, for example, we can verify the data is being deleted.  

Wherein your screen are being recorded doing the job?

That's great for a task that doesn't require exclusivity.  If the task is a vote/opinion for example, just recording someone checking a box opens the entire system up to abuse.

Cos being available for a complete 1 hour that’s just being focused at doing something without living that area would be costlier than the 1 dollar per hour price slated

This program will not interest those who have high expenses.   When you are surfing the web, or reading your email, set yourself to available.  But if you pay to go online, you can join other programs that don't require you to be online as you do them.[/list]

[examplens]

Vod says they haven't access to anything, hackers also haven't access to anything, but almost every day we hear about a new hack and certain complications that as result. for example the last thing with the Twitter hack, who put a lot of money into a security.
I don't think the information is safe there, especially if your program comes out of anonymity, become famous and pay attention to possible available data.

Hackers can only access unencrypted information.  In the twitter hack, like most hacks, they were helped by an insider.    If no human can access the encrypted data, and this is provable, then a hacker cannot touch it.  

I am just saying, even the big global players have a problem with security. it doesn't matter what exactly the omission was, it happened.
as far as I can see many are sceptical, so if you need people to test you can contact me when you start with this. more because I am curious than because of money 

[Vod]

so if you need people to test you can contact me when you start with this. more because I am curious than because of money  

Thank you!  Obviously I can't make guarantees on security, but I am committed to building an anonymous, automated and secure system.  If I do something and it doesn't work, then we try something else until it does work.  The key is openness as we develop together.   You won't see me unilaterally changing terms to scam thousands of BTC. 

I am still amazed that crypto is over a decade old and people allow themselves to be scammed on this forum.

[VSYNC_]

You'll have no trouble at all getting people to sign up for this.. whether or not they'll be able to respond in 15 seconds to a request I'm not sure, and ideally you want a situation where it's as common as possible for people to respond and not skip to other people.  The more frequently people respond and complete the tasks, the less people you need to have on call to get your quotas completed, so the less $1 per hours you have to pay out to get the same volume of tasks complete.

It's a good model though - having a list of hundreds of people and a first come first serve basis.

Instead of paying someone a guaranteed $1 per hour irrespective of whether or not they complete any tasks though (but as long as they are "available" for the whole hour), why not pay a lesser amount as a basis (or even no base rate) and then pay per completion?  There will still be a lot of people from 3WC that will complete the tasks, you'll still have a queue of people waiting to complete them, but you won't be having to pay out $1 per hour * the length of the queue in order to get the workload pushed through.

[Vod]

Instead of paying someone a guaranteed $1 per hour irrespective of whether or not they complete any tasks though (but as long as they are "available" for the whole hour), why not pay a lesser amount as a basis (or even no base rate) and then pay per completion?  There will still be a lot of people from 3WC that will complete the tasks, you'll still have a queue of people waiting to complete them, but you won't be having to pay out $1 per hour * the length of the queue in order to get the workload pushed through.

I appreciate these ideas, as I'm still working on the details.

I don't expect people to be available for long periods of time.  When you first become available, you will get some tasks, and it will slow down.  The system will not pass a second task from the same person to you right away. 

Remember that I'm not going to have hundreds of people expecting to be paid hourly.  The club is private and will grow as people start to use the services.  When you signal availability, you could go into a queue waiting until someone else becomes unavailable.   In other words, you people won't be available for hours a day at the start.

whether or not they'll be able to respond in 15 seconds to a request I'm not sure

There will be two timers - the first one is to accept the task.   Then, depending on the task, you have a second timer to complete the task.  I don't see any reason why a person working on their computer could not click a link within seconds, if they were expecting one. 

[VSYNC_]

Instead of paying someone a guaranteed $1 per hour irrespective of whether or not they complete any tasks though (but as long as they are "available" for the whole hour), why not pay a lesser amount as a basis (or even no base rate) and then pay per completion?  There will still be a lot of people from 3WC that will complete the tasks, you'll still have a queue of people waiting to complete them, but you won't be having to pay out $1 per hour * the length of the queue in order to get the workload pushed through.

I appreciate these ideas, as I'm still working on the details.

I don't expect people to be available for long periods of time.  When you first become available, you will get some tasks, and it will slow down.  The system will not pass a second task from the same person to you right away.  

Remember that I'm not going to have hundreds of people expecting to be paid hourly.  The club is private and will grow as people start to use the services.  When you signal availability, you could go into a queue waiting until someone else becomes unavailable.   In other words, you people won't be available for hours a day at the start.

whether or not they'll be able to respond in 15 seconds to a request I'm not sure

There will be two timers - the first one is to accept the task.   Then, depending on the task, you have a second timer to complete the task.  I don't see any reason why a person working on their computer could not click a link within seconds, if they were expecting one.  

Ok, so you've got task providers you're partnering though, and your business model is that the more tasks workers complete, the more you make.

So your ideal situation is as many tasks as possible being completed, but at any level (even if there are just 100 tasks a day being completed), you're going to want fast responses which means you're going to want to have people permanently ready.

How are you going to balance the growth in tasks with the growth in users?  Tasks grow too fast and your ability to have them completed quickly will diminish, users grow too fast and it's wasted labour that could be used to increase revenue.

Re your last point, I work on my laptop 14 hours a day on average and even with a tab open on a different window and a noise, there's a good chance I would miss a lot of jobs because of the normal everyday things that people do - toilet, food, breaks, etc. you couldn't expect people to be proactively responsive all day, and when they miss opportunities they're being paid for nothing.

What would stop people from collecting the $1 per hour and deliberately not doing much/any work? Also what kinds of tasks are you expecting them to do?  Captcha completions, link clicks etc?

[Vod]

Ok, so you've got task providers you're partnering though, and your business model is that the more tasks workers complete, the more you make.
What would stop people from collecting the $1 per hour and deliberately not doing much/any work? Also what kinds of tasks are you expecting them to do?  Captcha completions, link clicks etc?

No.  I am creating my own tasks.  With automation as one of my goals, I need to deal with situations that AI cannot handle yet. 

The club has many services.  When a service needs verification, there would be a task created for an odd number of users.  The task will have links, and the link that is clicked on the most is considered the solution.

Re your last point, I work on my laptop 14 hours a day on average and even with a tab open on a different window and a noise, there's a good chance I would miss a lot of jobs because of the normal everyday things that people do - toilet, food, breaks, etc. you couldn't expect people to be proactively responsive all day, and when they miss opportunities they're being paid for nothing.

If you step away from the computer, or do not accept/reject a task, you will go unavailable.  You are only paid when you are available to do tasks.  I will prob need to adjust my numbers to pay a bit per task as well.

[Vod]

as with modern silicone masks one can  easily hide his/her true identity in front of Web camera.

While it is true that current AI algorithms are fooled by the mask, there is still enough bio metric information to 100% identify you - the AI just needs to be retrained.
Edit:  Found a link:  https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/12/tech/face-recognition-masks/index.html

This service will be one of many in the club.  No one will have to use their camera if they don't want to earn money this way.

[VSYNC_]

as with modern silicone masks one can  easily hide his/her true identity in front of Web camera.

While it is true that current AI algorithms are fooled by the mask, there is still enough bio metric information to 100% identify you - the AI just needs to be retrained.
Edit:  Found a link:  https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/12/tech/face-recognition-masks/index.html

This service will be one of many in the club.  No one will have to use their camera if they don't want to earn money this way.

Ahh ok, what kinds of tasks will you be getting people to do?  That will have a big impact on the overall flow of the model.

Also, what is the purpose of the camera shot?  Just to ensure that real people are completing tasks and that it's not being automated?

If someone did automate it, and that software completed the tasks to the same standard you would expect from a person, then that would be good for both you and them?  If they can't automate it as good as a human would manually, then you will detect that by their output and then can shut them out anyway.

ie. instead of the metric being "is a real person completing the task", you could sidestep the hassle of involving cameras and just change the metric to "is the task being completed to a satisfactory level" which is much easier to check and won't involve messy privacy stuff.

[Vod]

ie. instead of the metric being "is a real person completing the task", you could sidestep the hassle of involving cameras and just change the metric to "is the task being completed to a satisfactory level" which is much easier to check and won't involve messy privacy stuff.

I like your continued interest; helping me flush out ideas.

I need to verify that the user is unique - they cannot complete the task successfully if I don't know they are unique.  When I get into mediation, for example - a person could paste an address that isn't correct.  The system won't know, but a person can look at the evidence and say "yes, that is his address" or "no, that is not his address".   If you get one person running dozens of tasks, he can easily skew the results in his favor.

If I want to be able to pay per hour, I need to make sure the person is the same as they were before, and that they are in front of the computer.

[OgNasty]

Vod has been caught posting personal information of users on this forum. This is probably the worst case scenario for anyone to give up their info.

DO NOT GIVE YOUR INFORMATION TO THIS INDIVIDUAL.

[Vod]

This is why Mr. OG lies.

I will never ask for your personal information, so don't sweat it. 

[mikeywith]

While privacy is indeed a huge concern especially when it has to do with the camera, those who need the job can still be anonymous, the system needs to run in a way that there are no links at all between whatever the 3rd party collects and the person's personal/public data, in other words, no connection between the member identity in your club and their identity on this forum for an example.

It's pretty useless to have a video of someone sitting in front of their PC when you don't know that person, but if somehow it was linked to their social media or bitcointalk account then that will be an issue.

Also, there is a major issue with the way you plan to operate, you are going to pay the members just for being online, which means there is a possibility that the system fails to send a task for a whole hour or two and then you simply need to pay them for that even if they haven't done anything, the question is, where will the money come from?

The payment model is somehow unfair, it's to everybody's interest not to receive any tasks, so those who get more tasks will be paid an equal amount to those who were somehow lucky and went away with jut 1-2 tasks, also the type of the tasks is important.

How about you don't pay them per hour and simply pay them by the tasks that are equivalent to your pay rate? if you are willing to pay $1 an hour, and your tasks cost 10 cents each, give them 10 tasks within an hour, if there are more tasks they make more money if there are fewer tasks then the money doesn't have to "come from nowhere".

Now if you are looking for people who have a bit of skill and are into crypto for the tech, then chances are this isn't going to work, but if you are just looking for people then it's almost guaranteed that even a low pay rate like that will attract a large number of people despite the privacy aspect.



 

[Vod]

While privacy is indeed a huge concern especially when it has to do with the camera, those who need the job can still be anonymous, the system needs to run in a way that there are no links at all between whatever the 3rd party collects and the person's personal/public data, in other words, no connection between the member identity in your club and their identity on this forum for an example.

Perfectly put!  The service I choose (or have someone create) will have to use automated encryption keys the staff does not have, and the encrypted files themselves are protected against access and deleted immediately after use.   I've even decided on a GUID as the identifier so I can't guesstimate who it is based on the signup date.  This GUID will be associated with your profile.  The service will just send the GUID and the info eg:  "Profile available".

The payment model is somehow unfair, it's to everybody's interest not to receive any tasks, so those who get more tasks will be paid an equal amount to those who were somehow lucky and went away with jut 1-2 tasks, also the type of the tasks is important.

Let me explain how the system will work.   I am going to use terms online/offline, on/off.

The system will have to scale to the frequency of the tasks coming in.  You won't be able to go online whenever you want; there will have to be a queue system.  You go online, and if there is a queue you'll be told how long and be offered notifications when you are going online so you don't have to sit staring at a timer.  I also don't want people waiting for more than 15 minutes, so flow of people into this service will be controlled by the private club membership.   Statistics can show me the tasks coming in, the number of people needed, the number available, the price of a basic service, etc.  Overall the system has to lose money or have a delay in service response.  That loss is controlled by the queue, and recovered by our service prices.

About going offline:  You will go offline if you don't acknowledge a task, or stop moving for a few seconds.  (I'll have to see what options there are.)  It will warn you before it boots you, and I'll have a "Break" mode that will take you offline but you'll skip the queue when you come back.   WIP: need to allow for multiple people on one computer.

Now if you are looking for people who have a bit of skill and are into crypto for the tech, then chances are this isn't going to work, but if you are just looking for people then it's almost guaranteed that even a low pay rate like that will attract a large number of people despite the privacy aspect.

Once people have been doing specific tasks for a while, we will be able to offer higher end services for more money.  Some may not even require you to be online. I would love to see new projects using this service and spreading some crypto around. 

[amishmanish]

WIP:  User will receive notification of task.  They will have xx seconds to accept, or they will become unavailable, and the task will be offered to the next user.  You will also become unavailable if the camera can't see you.  In either case, you just need to set yourself as available again.

You are paid per hour of available time - not just the seconds spent doing the task.

From this it sounds like the ideal candidate will be someone inside their home with a PC and some system to notify them of tasks. This may sound strange to some but this is perfect for millions of educated housewives and unemployed grads who want to do something that can get them a little cash in pocket. Really appreciate your intention for this to also be a way of spreading crypto-wealth.

I think the major issue with would be finding decent people to work for the club. I like the idea of private invitation. You would also need to vet the people who get in. How do you plan to do that? Personally, I would love to refer some people to this service whom i know to be sincere and looking for such an opportunity. Please let me know if you are comfortable using this method. I see no reason as to why it shouldn't work if you vet the recruiters well and maybe put a limit to the number of people someone can refer. I don't expect to be paid for referring. Providing someone a way to fish is a reward in itself in crypto.

[Kakmakr]

I really want to applaud any projects that would increase Crypto currency usage and adoption and also spreading of tokens to as many individuals as possible. When Crypto currencies are hoarded by a few individuals (Whales).. manipulation of the price becomes easier, so it will reduce price manipulation, if projects like this succeeds.   

I also like projects that helps with poverty alleviation, because too much wealth are centralized in first world countries. There are many people living in 3rd world countries that are earning a minimum wage of $10 a week if they are lucky enough to be employed. 

Most of those people would not worry about sacrificing their privacy or leaving traces behind of their real identity. Unemployment has risen exponentially during the Covid-19 pandemic and people are struggling to survive. ($1 per hour will help them to survive) 

It will be very bad, if a project like this was used to exploit people who are already struggling. (If you are willing to work for $1/hour.. you are one of those people)

I will certainly monitor the progress of this project and then point people in this direction that are in need, because I know many people who are currently unemployed and in need of some kind of income. 

[leea-1334]

It sounds like a good idea, except the camera part because I don't know how that camera will take and transmit my face,,, how do I know it is not doing it for bad purposes especially if it is third party? I am OK with giving myself some other method for verifying I am a real person there. This heartbeat thing while on my computer is fine, for example.

And how does payment charge work,,, If I sit there for 8 hours will I get minimum $8 or will I only get paid per hour of tasked work, because the only way I do this is if I can sit and earn for the full 8 hours otherwise my bills and time is wasted.

If I can sit 8 hours and get $8 min,,, I am definitely interested.

[dansus021]

Hire me Vod 

is the project already running 
since i dont have real job because of this pandemic shit 

this covid have a real deal my workplace bankrupt because this Bit**

[Vod]

You would also need to vet the people who get in. How do you plan to do that?

Why do I need to vet people?   Crypto is blind; if a person meets the minimum club requirements they can join the same as anyone else.  I don't care who they are - my platform is build on anonymity.

It will be very bad, if a project like this was used to exploit people who are already struggling. (If you are willing to work for $1/hour.. you are one of those people)

If you've followed my posts over the past decade, you'll see that I fight against people who exploit others. 

[gabbie2010]

Kudos to you for conceptualizing this idea I hope this idea comes into real live my advice is to find a way of discouraging any means of automating those tasks to wide off those who wants to circumvent those tasks and your efforts at all cost thus depriving thousand of real and legitimate workers globally means of earning some bucks.
This idea will spread the gospel of using cryptocurrencies worldwide of course newbies workers will know that creating a wallet is mandatory to receive payment thus creating an avenue for learning and the use of cryptos, this will also reduce poverty rate especially in third world countries particularly at this point in time when coid-19 is ravaging the world.

[OgNasty]

Known pedophile wants to access cameras in your house... Sure sounds like nothing could go wrong here.

[Vod]

Known pedophile wants to access cameras in your house... Sure sounds like nothing could go wrong here.

Sorry, you will not have access to the cameras, Mr. OG.  

my advice is to find a way of discouraging any means of automating those tasks to wide off those who wants to circumvent those tasks and your efforts at all cost thus depriving thousand of real and legitimate workers globally means of earning some bucks.

whoa.... can you rephrase that?   I don't understand.  

[VSYNC_]

ie. instead of the metric being "is a real person completing the task", you could sidestep the hassle of involving cameras and just change the metric to "is the task being completed to a satisfactory level" which is much easier to check and won't involve messy privacy stuff.

I like your continued interest; helping me flush out ideas.

I need to verify that the user is unique - they cannot complete the task successfully if I don't know they are unique.  When I get into mediation, for example - a person could paste an address that isn't correct.  The system won't know, but a person can look at the evidence and say "yes, that is his address" or "no, that is not his address".   If you get one person running dozens of tasks, he can easily skew the results in his favor.

If I want to be able to pay per hour, I need to make sure the person is the same as they were before, and that they are in front of the computer.

Ok, I get you.  You need to know that each user is unique as they are completing tasks.

Just as a suggestion, there's two points that you can do this: 1st is the point you're looking at now, at the time of the task being completed.  Using a camera you can see that they are indeed someone unique.  You do this every time they complete a task.

The 2nd option though is checking they are unique a single time before they are viable for tasks, and then attaching them to their account.  Logically, if they wanted to set up lots of accounts, they would fail the subsequent attempts because of a single check on each account.

The way that most platforms achieve this is using a unique govt ID, photo + message on a piece of paper.  Once they complete that and send it to you, you can assign "that face" to "that account" and never have to worry about it again.  

The reason this is superior is two-fold: one, people are used to doing this already with other platforms so it sounds way less weird than having a camera watching them.  No one will bat an eye if you ask for a photo with their passport and a message saying "vod's website name, date, signature".

Two, it's computationally less expensive for you, and reduces process times as well.  Incorporating cameras into your system means they have to run autonomously at the right time, record things for you to see later, or even worse (computationally) you incorporate some kind of deep learning model into the mix which checks peoples' faces on-the-fly each time they complete a task.  It's additional latency, things that need to be completed etc etc where it's a huge reduction of complexity to check once, store that image, and then every time a new person creates an account run the deep learning model on that image against all other images you already have stored for existing accounts.

Besides it's a super low-jack method of achieving this.  You can use file uploading, and an extra page in your workflow, and you can even run the deep learning model for face recognition/comparison on an aws instance without needing to even connect that to the system of the site.  The alternative is building camera systems into your processes and then further complicating it by having on-the-fly facial recognition (unless you're going to do it all manually, which is a bad idea for a few reasons, but also would be easier/optimal with the system I suggested anyway).

[gabbie2010]

my advice is to find a way of discouraging any means of automating those tasks to wide off those who wants to circumvent those tasks and your efforts at all cost thus depriving thousand of real and legitimate workers globally means of earning some bucks.

whoa.... can you rephrase that?   I don't understand.  
[/quote]
Try and block any loophole that will warrant some computer experts that can automate those jobs or task to earn more bitcoin for themselves rather allow real workers to complete those tasks.

[amishmanish]

You would also need to vet the people who get in. How do you plan to do that?

Why do I need to vet people?   Crypto is blind; if a person meets the minimum club requirements they can join the same as anyone else.  I don't care who they are - my platform is build on anonymity.

Maybe "vet" people sounds a bit too martial. I suppose what i mean is that whether you plan to have a way of selecting people that does not leave it open for multi-accounts, alt-accounts? Those people always find a way to crowd out normal users. It maybe a positive to have some way of ensuring that the people who get in aren't looking to exploit but to make it work. That is why i thought a system of "references" akin to real world job applications may be something to think of.

[Vod]

That is why i thought a system of "references" akin to real world job applications may be something to think of.

Automated reference checks can be abused.  I have a method for preventing most multiple accounts.

[Hamphser]

Rates are good for people who do live on third world since you dont need to do hardwork to earn some bucks but one thing that made me hesitate on where you do need to open up your camera just to see that you are
unique and active. Is there any other way to verify someones activeness on not showing off our faces?

[Kakmakr]

Rates are good for people who do live on third world since you dont need to do hardwork to earn some bucks but one thing that made me hesitate on where you do need to open up your camera just to see that you are
unique and active. Is there any other way to verify someones activeness on not showing off our faces?

I think there are multiple ways to solve that problem with challenge–response type tests like Captcha's software that can be implemented. They can make use of several different types in 1 hour session..like, https://www.letsnurture.com/blog/8-widely-used-captcha-examples.html

I know there are some very sophisticated bots out there that can solve some of these Captcha challenges, so you must mix them up to confuse these bots.

Another way to solve this is to send a verification via SMS or email to a user for them to type in, before they will be able to access the next part of the task. The verification should say something like What is 5 + 5 = ??  (The user must figure out the answer and then type that in)  

How does this sound?...... much better than Face recognition software.... right.  

[Vod]

Is there any other way to verify someones activeness on not showing off our faces?

If you have suggestions, I'd love to hear them!   None of them so far solve the problem of making sure a unique person is doing the task.

[2double0]

Is there any other way to verify someones activeness on not showing off our faces?

If you have suggestions, I'd love to hear them!   None of them so far solve the problem of making sure a unique person is doing the task.

What about the tasks which are made to be done by a single person? How can that task be cheated by more users if it is already assigned to the one who gets chosen by the task provider? If verification is so much necessary 'and if users agree', why not choose a service that does verification processes instantly and does not give any details of the face of that person but prove that the person is genuine?

[Harlot]

Maybe I have not read the part about allowing the sytem/UI accessing our camera and I think this one is really a big concern for me yeah I got interested of earning a few dollars of not it being able to disturb my main activity but the camera to show proof that you are the ones working makes me insecure. I mean people who have experienced work from home due to the pandemic majority of them will say that they never have experienced their company asking for access in their cameras just to show proof that they are working, for them I think it is enough that their employees are delivering the work they are expected to do and it is good to go. If this is a way to avoid some kind of cheating in the system I believe this would be very hard for anyone to agree.

[Vod]

What about the tasks which are made to be done by a single person?

There will be no such tasks.  Three people will be minimum (testing/low value tasks), and it can scale right up to election size tasks.  We have Amazon's word they can handle it.  

Can you name a task that one person can do with 100% accuracy that a properly trained AI cannot?

[VSYNC_]

What about the tasks which are made to be done by a single person?

There will be no such tasks.  Three people will be minimum (testing/low value tasks), and it can scale right up to election size tasks.  We have Amazon's word they can handle it.  

Can you name a task that one person can do with 100% accuracy that a properly trained AI cannot?

That's a good point.  Why aren't you just using AI's for task completion Vod? 

[Vod]

That's a good point.  Why aren't you just using AI's for task completion Vod? 

I am using AI for task completion, where I can.

[Zemomtum]

Bitcoin revolution is all about anonymity, giving out my camera is KYC is disguise and does not provide any form of identity security.

[Vod]

It's getting difficult to keep track of all these threads and PMs.  I'm going to set up a quick forum where we discuss features and not hijack bitcointalk - it's my intention to have annual club elections.  I'll post the link here when ready. 

[VSYNC_]

That's a good point.  Why aren't you just using AI's for task completion Vod? 

I am using AI for task completion, where I can.

It's an interesting concept I can tell, and regarding your comment on the aesthetics thread, that all made sense about the distribution and collection as well (couldn't reply there).

As an early adopter why would I have advantages over others who come along later?  I saw you mention that somewhere and with any large platform in their early stages it's one of the most critical factors imo

[Vod]

Visiting with a friend.   I'm not ignoring you. 

[DarkDays]

I personally wouldn't work for $1/hour, but then again, I reside in one of the most expensive cities in the world.

I think for unskilled workers in the poverty-stricken areas or those in less developed economies might be willing to work for that sort of money.

In some countries, the average monthly salary is around $100. So working 40 hours a week for you with this task could help these guys bring in almost twice the monthly salary—not too bad, particularly when you consider that $1 is listed as the absolute minimum.

You might be able to attract some higher quality candidates if you also specify the upper limit of their earning potential, e.g. $2, $5, $10/hour etc.

[COBRAS]

Visiting with a friend.   I'm not ignoring you.  

I think bast way if you try yourself first, and many peole was seen your face first, because if something hapend clients will search not you, but all invited you users  

You are relay use a ICQ ? ICQ in 2020 is a fraud flag my friend. IQC is aert what in your country landline phone modem internet.

[Vod]

Visiting with a friend.   I'm not ignoring you.  

I think bast way if you try yourself first, and many peole was seen your face first, because if something hapend clients will search not you, but all invited you users  

You are relay use a ICQ ? ICQ in 2020 is a fraud flag my friend. IQC is aert what in your country landline phone modem internet.

I'm not sure what your first sentence means, but regarding ICQ, look at my seven digit number; I used that a looooong time ago. 

[Fatemablabla]

Is there any open position available? I would like to apply Vod. Let me know. Thanks.

[UmerIdrees]

Let's say I can offer you a minimum of $1USD an hour (in crypto) just for being online and available.

Examples would include:
- voting on various items
- updating/ verifying information
- real time ($$) vs time period ($)
- gaming tournaments

I would be happy to work in any of these tasks in 1$ per hour work. I hope you really have that job and i get selected for it 

I would wait for your PM to discuss further on this.  Thanks

[Vod]

In regards to the last two comments:   

1) Please do not PM me general questions about working in the club.  So there be no misunderstanding, I am overseeing the construction of the club, and will pass leadership on in a democratic process.   
2) The selection process will be automatic.  Some manual verification will be needed to build the automatic verification systems, but it will slowly open to the public. 

I have launched the temporary development forum.  If you and I have discussed ideas, please register; it is not to discuss work!  There is nothing there right now, as I'm busy packing for family business out of province. 

Reasons to join: 

- You want to suggest or discuss new intermediate+ features.
- You have questions about proving specific experience.
- You have experience with certain skills.

Requirements:

- You have read the relevant information already, so you do not duplicate posts.
- You can prove any statement you claim to my satisfaction.  (If you are worried about this, wait until the process is automated).
- You meet the minimum requirements.

[dikaprob]

how it's work?

[JohnBitCo]

how it's work?

Its already mentioned in the posts above you and in the OP post and you should be able to read / understand first.

- You have read the relevant information already, so you do not duplicate posts.

If you can't understand how it work's, then this work is not for you.

[Ucy]

By using Amazon lifecycle rules, you can publicly verify that any data is destroyed
are being processed.  

You mean the private data^?
 If yes... I'd say the problem with this is how can one be certain that the data is actually destroyed and not stored atall in anyway considering that this is likely centralized. This is one the main concern with giving out private info to centralized services.

Will probably try this if my biometric data (like my face) can be split into different parts and sent to multiple third-parties or AI to verify. That should help prevent the possibility of one service having my full face or biometric data.

[Vod]

By using Amazon lifecycle rules, you can publicly verify that any data is destroyed
are being processed.  

You mean the private data^?
 If yes... I'd say the problem with this is how can one be certain that the data is actually destroyed and not stored atall in anyway considering that this is likely centralized. This is one the main concern with giving out private info to centralized services.

Will probably try this if my biometric data (like my face) can be split into different parts and sent to multiple third-parties or AI to verify. That should help prevent the possibility of one service having my full face or biometric data.

I don't know if your face is considered PII if it's not tied to any other information. Otherwise, any device that records images would be subject to regulation.

The pictures would never be viewed by a human.   All the service will do is verify that you are the same person you were yesterday, and it's live, not a picture.  So it needs to store a picture of you to compare to the video feed.  But the video of your face is deleted as soon as it's verified - provable.  Anyone managing to hack past the firewalls and break encryption will just see pictures of people, same as in any normal photograph.   Each picture will have a number, and no other information attached to it.

You can also request your image be deleted at any time, and I will have to figure out how that will affect future desire to reuse the service.  These are ideas I would love to discuss in more detail on my development forum.   Please join it if you consider yourself to be smarter than the average user on here. 

[JanEmil]

>- gaming tournaments
Sure

[Vod]

>- gaming tournaments
Sure

That is a great example of a service that will not require live video verification.   Other examples include green screen modeling, airdrops, Machine Learning Price Prediction (MLPP), etc.  

If a person is able to evade the detection systems, and they want to dilute their provable experience with multiple accounts, they can have a couple on the system.   But for certain functions like moderation, unique individuals are key.  

You will still be able to earn coin on clubcrypto without this level of authentication.

[Vod]

By using Amazon lifecycle rules, you can publicly verify that any data is destroyed
are being processed.  

You mean the private data^?
 If yes... I'd say the problem with this is how can one be certain that the data is actually destroyed and not stored atall in anyway considering that this is likely centralized. This is one the main concern with giving out private info to centralized services.

Will probably try this if my biometric data (like my face) can be split into different parts and sent to multiple third-parties or AI to verify. That should help prevent the possibility of one service having my full face or biometric data.

I could not continue after this post, because Ucy had a valid point.  I now have a solution.

This will be implemented in the future, when two needs merge - specialization and uniqueness.  Right now everyone is starting off at the bottom (or close to it when you stake relevant assets) so there is no need for such verification.   

I've made the following changes:
- move from a guaranteed $1/hour to a dynamic system that will attempt to get you at least $1/hour by controlling the number of workers online.
- nothing to install.  All work done using a web browser.
- no more activity verification.
- paid testing will start by the end of this year (not $1 hour, but something).  If you are interested, sign up for the job newsletter on our front page. 
https://clubcrypto.live/index.php?/employment/

>- gaming tournaments
Sure

Already working with a very popular 3D game - Satisfactory.  (The developer of Minecraft plays this!)  Building the open infrastructure is the hardest, but we'll be able to add your favorite game easily.

[OgNasty]

- move from a guaranteed $1/hour to a dynamic system that will attempt to get you at least $1/hour by controlling the number of workers online.

So you've decided $1/hr was too much to pay people who work for you?  

Vod is already failing at living up to his promises.  Reducing the amount he's trying to grift from "investors" from 6 BTC to 1.8 BTC and now reducing the amount he's offering to pay workers to below $1/hr.  We can all see where this is headed...

[bitmover]

I'm not sure what your first sentence means, but regarding ICQ, look at my seven digit number; I used that a looooong time ago. 

I have a 7 digit ICQ number as well, which I still remember it (6986***) from late 90s. But I don't know password for it. Is it possible to somehow recover those old accounts? I read some reports in Reddit about people who recovered about 15 years without logging in, others that the account was deleted...

[Vod]

Vod is already failing at living up to his promises.  Reducing the amount he's trying to grift from "investors" from 6 BTC to 1.8 BTC and now reducing the amount he's offering to pay workers to below $1/hr.  We can all see where this is headed...

Talk to your boss one day about planning a business.  You make adjustments as you find efficiencies.  Would you rather I lose 99% of investments like you did in your passthrough ponzi?

I have a 7 digit ICQ number as well, which I still remember it (6986***) from late 90s. But I don't know password for it. Is it possible to somehow recover those old accounts? I read some reports in Reddit about people who recovered about 15 years without logging in, others that the account was deleted...

Why would you need to get an old ICQ account back?  Recovering your account probably won't help you retrieve old messages.  They were stored locally in .xml files.

[nelson4lov]

This will be implemented in the future, when two needs merge - specialization and uniqueness.  Right now everyone is starting off at the bottom (or close to it when you stake relevant assets) so there is no need for such verification.   

I've made the following changes:
(...)

If the biometric verification would be removed, then I can participate. My major concern was having to share my private data which didn't make much sense. I don't know if this has been asked before or answered already but I wanted to know if all the "workers" do is simply to access that website via their mobile browser daily and don't have to do anything special or fancy once logged in for the day? If yes, $1/hour is a fair deal.

[OgNasty]

Talk to your boss one day about planning a business.  You make adjustments as you find efficiencies.  Would you rather I lose 99% of investments like you did in your passthrough ponzi?

You make false claims like a scammer.  I wonder why?

It was confirmed under oath in court by pirate himself that your statement is a lie.  As far as I'm aware not a single participant walked away with less funds than was deposited.  Some even made significant sums of BTC all while the BTC price was rising!  Don't let that stop you from claiming thousands of BTC was lost with 0 evidence though.  That's what lying scamming pieces of shit do, so it's what's to be expected from you.

If Vod is so quick to spread lies, do you really want to trust him with your personal information or income? 
It is obvious Vod is a scammer from his trust ratings but if it isn't obvious, look at these threads:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5136576.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5232165.0

There's a reason Vod wants to use investor funds to fund his salary for this project, and charge members to participate, while paying users next to nothing to use their personal information.  He's trying to take funds from everyone who touches his service, to pay himself a salary for his time spent scamming, which dozens of previous employers found wasn't worth minimum wage.  Be warned.  Whether you're an investor in this project or a participant, in the end you will learn that Vod is a habitual liar, failed scammer, and trying to grift as much from this community as he can to fund his retirement since he decided to spend the last decade harassing users of this forum instead of preparing for his end of life, which investors should know is likely rapidly approaching due to a myriad of drinking and health issues.  Nothing about this "business" is on the up and up.  When he disappears, so will your investment.

[Vod]

^^ Upset with me cause I'm holding him accountable.   He admits he returned only 1% (insurance fund) and LOST 99% of his investors money.

As for everything else, he is speaking from experience and doesn't understand that I won't be recording deposits in a spreadsheet like he did.   

I'll lock this thread and make another self moderated.