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Author Topic: Premonition - Bitcoin skyrockets above 30$  (Read 5539 times)
cbeast
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November 24, 2011, 11:27:13 AM
 #21

Over two billion people lack a proper toilet to take a dump into every day.  An electronic P2P currency requiring a computer equal to their yearly wage in cost is probably far from their immediate concerns.

So stop giving all the money to middle-men and start paying people to be productive. Eliminating the failing bank system is a good start.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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November 24, 2011, 11:35:19 AM
 #22

There's no doubt about it. Bitcoin is going to $1000.



I'm as serious as Lou Ferrigno is The Hulk.


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November 24, 2011, 12:52:48 PM
 #23

Bitcoins have already hit $30.  It's not so much a premonition as a... postmonition.  My postmonition record is pretty much 100%.  Astounding.

Do not send bitcoins to me: 16b8s7pBJ9rUmsExNW25qD5VUqVqRPZuXu
100% solar powered bitcoin generation
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November 24, 2011, 12:55:44 PM
 #24

Over two billion people lack a proper toilet to take a dump into every day.  An electronic P2P currency requiring a computer equal to their yearly wage in cost is probably far from their immediate concerns.

So stop giving all the money to middle-men and start paying people to be productive. Eliminating the failing bank system is a good start.

I'm giving out plenty of money to middle-men at the moment.  Just took out a mortgage to buy a house.  The bank is loving it.  Couldn't get the builder to accept bitcoins.

Do not send bitcoins to me: 16b8s7pBJ9rUmsExNW25qD5VUqVqRPZuXu
100% solar powered bitcoin generation
Jonathan Ryan Owens
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November 24, 2011, 01:04:03 PM
 #25

Over two billion people lack a proper toilet to take a dump into every day.  An electronic P2P currency requiring a computer equal to their yearly wage in cost is probably far from their immediate concerns.

So stop giving all the money to middle-men and start paying people to be productive. Eliminating the failing bank system is a good start.

I'm giving out plenty of money to middle-men at the moment.  Just took out a mortgage to buy a house.  The bank is loving it.  Couldn't get the builder to accept bitcoins.

Didn't you explain to them that it's the currency of the future though?

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November 24, 2011, 04:47:09 PM
 #26

Over two billion people lack a proper toilet to take a dump into every day.  An electronic P2P currency requiring a computer equal to their yearly wage in cost is probably far from their immediate concerns.

So stop giving all the money to middle-men and start paying people to be productive. Eliminating the failing bank system is a good start.

I'm giving out plenty of money to middle-men at the moment.  Just took out a mortgage to buy a house.  The bank is loving it.  Couldn't get the builder to accept bitcoins.

I'd take payment in Bitcoins to build a house! Finding someone else in my area who uses them is my problem.

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November 24, 2011, 04:51:58 PM
 #27

I dream that someone finds a compelling use for bitcoins beyond the Silk Road.  There are none yet.
Actually there is.

But people do not comprehend it.
yet...

Secret hint: Look on what people in the 3rd world are currently lacking and how this can be changed.
apply worldwide.

Over two billion people lack a proper toilet to take a dump into every day.  An electronic P2P currency requiring a computer equal to their yearly wage in cost is probably far from their immediate concerns.

More people in India have access to a cell phone than a "proper" toilet.  Half of the planet live in cultures that do not value Western concepts of hygiene.  Your statement above is irrelevant.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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November 25, 2011, 12:54:50 PM
 #28

Well Mr Andresen himself predicted up to 5 more bubbles, so it's easily possible should Bitcoin be here to stay.

If/when a killer app pops up (and there is still a lot of potential) raising demand, it's almost certain it will attract lots of investors again.

https://localbitcoins.com/?ch=80k | BTC: 1LJvmd1iLi199eY7EVKtNQRW3LqZi8ZmmB
cbeast
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November 26, 2011, 02:04:54 PM
 #29

Well Mr Andresen himself predicted up to 5 more bubbles, so it's easily possible should Bitcoin be here to stay.

If/when a killer app pops up (and there is still a lot of potential) raising demand, it's almost certain it will attract lots of investors again.

Killer apps will come in waves of complexity. Each new adaptation will inspire further development of the technology. Bitcoin is in the prototyping phase. The current client is like the Intel 8080. "Nobody needs more than 640k."

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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November 26, 2011, 02:53:00 PM
 #30

Well Mr Andresen himself predicted up to 5 more bubbles, so it's easily possible should Bitcoin be here to stay.

If/when a killer app pops up (and there is still a lot of potential) raising demand, it's almost certain it will attract lots of investors again.

Killer apps will come in waves of complexity. Each new adaptation will inspire further development of the technology. Bitcoin is in the prototyping phase. The current client is like the Intel 8080. "Nobody needs more than 640k."

If you are gonna use analogies, you should at least use one that is actually true.  

Quote
Gates himself has strenuously denied making the comment. In a newspaper column that he wrote in the mid-1990s, Gates responded to a student's question about the quote: "I've said some stupid things and some wrong things, but not that. No one involved in computers would ever say that a certain amount of memory is enough for all time." Later in the column, he added, "I keep bumping into that silly quotation attributed to me that says 640K of memory is enough. There's never a citation; the quotation just floats like a rumor, repeated again and again."

Gates, who is retiring from his day-to-day role at Microsoft Corp. on June 30, also insisted in a 2001 interview with U.S. News & World Report that he hadn't made the comment. "Do you realize the pain the industry went through while the IBM PC was limited to 640K? The machine was going to be 512K at one point, and we kept pushing it up," he told the magazine. "I never said that statement — I said the opposite of that."

1Kz25jm6pjNTaz8bFezEYUeBYfEtpjuKRG | PGP: B5797C4F

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cbeast
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November 26, 2011, 03:09:05 PM
 #31

If you are gonna use analogies, you should at least use one that is actually true.  

You just made baby Jesus cry.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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November 27, 2011, 12:09:14 AM
 #32

Well Mr Andresen himself predicted up to 5 more bubbles, so it's easily possible should Bitcoin be here to stay.

If/when a killer app pops up (and there is still a lot of potential) raising demand, it's almost certain it will attract lots of investors again.

Here is a suggestion, what about no more bubbles? Stop advertising bitcoin as an "investment" and get on with regular use.

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they keep laughing, then they start choking on their laughter, and then they go and catch their breath. Then they start laughing even more.
cbeast
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November 27, 2011, 12:26:59 AM
 #33

Well Mr Andresen himself predicted up to 5 more bubbles, so it's easily possible should Bitcoin be here to stay.

If/when a killer app pops up (and there is still a lot of potential) raising demand, it's almost certain it will attract lots of investors again.

Here is a suggestion, what about no more bubbles? Stop advertising bitcoin as an "investment" and get on with regular use.

"Investors" and "manipulators" are going to find out one day that Bitcoin is a 24/7 open ledger that won't allow cheating. For every pump, there will be an instant dump and vice-versa. There will be very sophisticated analytics of the block-chain so it will be difficult to pull HST algorithm tricks like you can with the closed systems on Wall Street. Bitcoin will become a full-fledged currency worthy of spending and saving. Apps will be developed, which will cause speculative bubbles. The bubbles we will see in the future will be as unpredictable as any, but Bitcoin will be spent because they are damn useful. When people become accustomed to using Bitcoin, more apps will be developed. Rinse. Repeat.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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November 27, 2011, 01:29:07 AM
 #34


"Investors" and "manipulators" are going to find out one day that Bitcoin is a 24/7 open ledger that won't allow cheating.

Did anyone say that 'investors' or 'manipulators' are 'cheating'?  If they did, I would disagree, and go so far as to say that they (or we) are probably the only reason the system is even where it is today.

For every pump, there will be an instant dump and vice-versa. There will be very sophisticated analytics of the block-chain so it will be difficult to pull HST algorithm tricks like you can with the closed systems on Wall Street. Bitcoin will become a full-fledged currency worthy of spending and saving. Apps will be developed, which will cause speculative bubbles. The bubbles we will see in the future will be as unpredictable as any, but Bitcoin will be spent because they are damn useful. When people become accustomed to using Bitcoin, more apps will be developed. Rinse. Repeat.

I don't want to be to sacrilegious, and I am a huge fan of Bitcoin in it's current original form, but it is simply not a very good internet currency for buying trinkets.  This is largely due to the lack of claw-back protection unless one uses a very cumbersome and expensive escrow or something.

Of course Bitcoin and it's cash-like qualities sounds like the cat's pajamas to the likes of logansyrche (or whatever his name was.)  The guy was so stupid that I don't think he even realized there was anything wrong with taking someone's BTC and giving them nothing in return.  The trouble is that about half the people in the world are of his caliber or below.  Another fair fraction are Libertarians who seem to believe that it is a good and healthy thing to get screwed since that is the way markets develop or something.

Sorry, but as a consumer I'm not about to get screwed and it does not matter if its for $1.00 or $10,000.00.

Bitcoin has a great promise, and I think that there is some possibility that it will be realized, but it's not for exchanging trinkets.  At least not directly.  I sometimes wonder if Satoshi didn't design Bitcoin to be just barely usable enough to keep the network going on the backs of dead-enders who cling to some Utopian vision where they sit on their asses and get people to send them Bitcoin until they cannot produce results (through 'no fault of their own', giving them a legitimate reason default.)

Looks like I've made around 50 purchases on e-bay, and 4 or 5 of them have not gone through because the seller did not have the goods after all.  In at least one case, I had to get PayPal to retrieve my money.  I'll bet that had that not been an option it would get screwed by about 25% of the counterparties.  (Actually, I bet that e-bay would not be able to stay in business.)  I acknowledge that PayPal takes an unpleasant bit out of transactions, but from my perspective as a buyer, it is worth it.

What Bitcoin could do, and if it survives probably will end up doing, would be to provide backing value to currency systems which share it's distributed nature and some of the other niceties, but go farther to address some of the deficiencies that the 'real' Bitcoin has in terms of usability.


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November 27, 2011, 02:13:11 AM
 #35

It is my opinion that a rise in value without a bubble is possible.
Lets face it bitcoin was (is) advertised as a get rich-quick-scheme by some people. And it was released to the public by the wrong people.

Comeon, gawker, internet gossip. What do you think what kind of people that attracted?
Bitcoin is a inherently subversive system and should be treated as such it should be revealed to people who would take an interest in that aspect not the ones looking for a few days of internet fame.

Bitcoin "skyrocketing" could ultimately destroy it before it reaches its full potential. Lets say it gets to the status of wikileaks, the news has has a frenzy about it and then it becomes something "eveybody and their grandma" knows about but doesn't care about.
And a scenario where bitcoin were to shoot up to $1000 and then plunge back to $50 would ultimately make the whole world consider it something to stay away from.

We should avoid bubbles or at least attempt to make them less severe. But the news media, gossips sites and propaganda alas "spreading the word" amplify it. Know someone who owns a business who would be open-minded for this kind for commerce? Tell them. (They will tell their customers which will result in real permanent growth)
Know someone who has spare cash which they don't wanna spend? Keep quiet.

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they keep laughing, then they start choking on their laughter, and then they go and catch their breath. Then they start laughing even more.
cbeast
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November 27, 2011, 03:03:50 AM
 #36


"Investors" and "manipulators" are going to find out one day that Bitcoin is a 24/7 open ledger that won't allow cheating.

Did anyone say that 'investors' or 'manipulators' are 'cheating'?  If they did, I would disagree, and go so far as to say that they (or we) are probably the only reason the system is even where it is today.
I was speaking of Wall St. cheaters.

For every pump, there will be an instant dump and vice-versa. There will be very sophisticated analytics of the block-chain so it will be difficult to pull HST algorithm tricks like you can with the closed systems on Wall Street. Bitcoin will become a full-fledged currency worthy of spending and saving. Apps will be developed, which will cause speculative bubbles. The bubbles we will see in the future will be as unpredictable as any, but Bitcoin will be spent because they are damn useful. When people become accustomed to using Bitcoin, more apps will be developed. Rinse. Repeat.
I don't want to be to sacrilegious, and I am a huge fan of Bitcoin in it's current original form, but it is simply not a very good internet currency for buying trinkets.  This is largely due to the lack of claw-back protection unless one uses a very cumbersome and expensive escrow or something.

Of course Bitcoin and it's cash-like qualities sounds like the cat's pajamas to the likes of logansyrche (or whatever his name was.)  The guy was so stupid that I don't think he even realized there was anything wrong with taking someone's BTC and giving them nothing in return.  The trouble is that about half the people in the world are of his caliber or below.  Another fair fraction are Libertarians who seem to believe that it is a good and healthy thing to get screwed since that is the way markets develop or something.

Sorry, but as a consumer I'm not about to get screwed and it does not matter if its for $1.00 or $10,000.00.

Bitcoin has a great promise, and I think that there is some possibility that it will be realized, but it's not for exchanging trinkets.  At least not directly.  I sometimes wonder if Satoshi didn't design Bitcoin to be just barely usable enough to keep the network going on the backs of dead-enders who cling to some Utopian vision where they sit on their asses and get people to send them Bitcoin until they cannot produce results (through 'no fault of their own', giving them a legitimate reason default.)

Looks like I've made around 50 purchases on e-bay, and 4 or 5 of them have not gone through because the seller did not have the goods after all.  In at least one case, I had to get PayPal to retrieve my money.  I'll bet that had that not been an option it would get screwed by about 25% of the counterparties.  (Actually, I bet that e-bay would not be able to stay in business.)  I acknowledge that PayPal takes an unpleasant bit out of transactions, but from my perspective as a buyer, it is worth it.

What Bitcoin could do, and if it survives probably will end up doing, would be to provide backing value to currency systems which share it's distributed nature and some of the other niceties, but go farther to address some of the deficiencies that the 'real' Bitcoin has in terms of usability.



I'm glad you had good experiences with Paypal. Not everyone would would share your view of them. Caveat emptor. It's kind of early to judge Bitcoin because it's so early in its development. Give it a chance. You can second guess Satoshi all you want. Bitcoin is here to stay and it will evolve into something very useful.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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November 27, 2011, 03:15:40 AM
 #37

I dream that someone finds a compelling use for bitcoins beyond the Silk Road.  There are none yet.
Actually there is.

But people do not comprehend it.
yet...

Secret hint: Look on what people in the 3rd world are currently lacking and how this can be changed.
apply worldwide.

Over two billion people lack a proper toilet to take a dump into every day.  An electronic P2P currency requiring a computer equal to their yearly wage in cost is probably far from their immediate concerns.

More people in India have access to a cell phone than a "proper" toilet.  Half of the planet live in cultures that do not value Western concepts of hygiene.  Your statement above is irrelevant.

Okay, I know your comment is in jest (as it doesn't make sense any other way).  But I'll bite.  Having traveled through India I saw what the locals did with their waste and the condition of the rivers.  Bacteria don't care about Western or Eastern values, political correctness or whether people have mobile phones or not.  Bacteria don't discriminate in the people that they infest or in the illness caused.  Hygienic disposal of waste is obviously far more important than mobile phone ownership.

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November 27, 2011, 03:57:38 AM
 #38


...
What Bitcoin could do, and if it survives probably will end up doing, would be to provide backing value to currency systems which share it's distributed nature and some of the other niceties, but go farther to address some of the deficiencies that the 'real' Bitcoin has in terms of usability.

I'm glad you had good experiences with Paypal. Not everyone would would share your view of them.

I only hope to get people to see that there are some legitimate advantages which PayPal (and pretty much all mainstream systems) which Bitcoin lacks.  I feel that if people do not appreciate these and take steps to address them, they will be disappointed in their efforts.

PayPal is way high on my shit-list and I was/am planning to dump them, but that is because of the Wikileaks thing.  As a payment platform for _buying_ trinkets, it's fine.  So, again, if that is what people are hoping to use Bitcoin to compete with, beware.

Caveat emptor. It's kind of early to judge Bitcoin because it's so early in its development. Give it a chance. You can second guess Satoshi all you want.

I'm not second-guessing Satoshi (but would not hesitate to if I felt so inclined.)  What I am doing is questioning the various interpretations of his work which I feel are, as often as not, peoples personal projections.

Bitcoin is here to stay and it will evolve into something very useful.

I hope to God that it will...I've got a raft of BTC at this time.  But the last thing I want in a monetary system is 'evolution'.  I want a fixed set of rules which do not change except only under the most extreme of circumstances.  In this case, only when there is a terminal threat to the core of the system.

I feel that a variety of tuned currencies which derive their value from Bitcoin could both do the heavy lifting of supporting entire economic zones (if it every became desirable to do), AND at the same time provide a lot of features that were left out of Bitcoin in the interest of making the system clean, reliable, and simple.  Win/win as far as I am concerned.


cbeast
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November 27, 2011, 05:06:58 AM
 #39

I hope to God that it will...I've got a raft of BTC at this time.  But the last thing I want in a monetary system is 'evolution'.  I want a fixed set of rules which do not change except only under the most extreme of circumstances.  In this case, only when there is a terminal threat to the core of the system.

I'm talking about evolution in the sense of adaptation. The code is tight and unlikely to change much. Bitcoin will be around after EU and USD are in Chinese.

I feel that a variety of tuned currencies which derive their value from Bitcoin could both do the heavy lifting of supporting entire economic zones (if it every became desirable to do), AND at the same time provide a lot of features that were left out of Bitcoin in the interest of making the system clean, reliable, and simple.  Win/win as far as I am concerned.

I understand the idea of sovereign currencies pegged to Bitcoin, but not because it is lacking features. If they choose to not use the One World Currency, then they will be playing catch up later.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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November 27, 2011, 07:02:27 AM
 #40

I hope to God that it will...I've got a raft of BTC at this time.  But the last thing I want in a monetary system is 'evolution'.  I want a fixed set of rules which do not change except only under the most extreme of circumstances.  In this case, only when there is a terminal threat to the core of the system.

I'm talking about evolution in the sense of adaptation. The code is tight and unlikely to change much. Bitcoin will be around after EU and USD are in Chinese.

I hope that it's long life pans out, of course, and the fact that it has held up as well as it has is promising, but I'm certainly not betting the house on things.

I have significant concern that if/when Bitcoin is forced to make the shift to 'super nodes' or whatever due to the load of maintaining accurate records for something as complex as an entire economy (vertically), it will fail for either technical or organizational reasons.

If the developers decide to insert various bells and whistles to overcome legitimate shortcomings in the system when it is employed for all potential uses, I can only see this aggravating whatever potential problems are already on the horizon.

I feel that a variety of tuned currencies which derive their value from Bitcoin could both do the heavy lifting of supporting entire economic zones (if it every became desirable to do), AND at the same time provide a lot of features that were left out of Bitcoin in the interest of making the system clean, reliable, and simple.  Win/win as far as I am concerned.

I understand the idea of sovereign currencies pegged to Bitcoin, but not because it is lacking features. If they choose to not use the One World Currency, then they will be playing catch up later.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by 'sovereign currencies pegged to Bitcoin.'

I see Bitcoin's only hope is for it to be both truly global, and completely divorced from any governmental sponsorship.  Global because otherwise national attacks will probably be successful (if they are are ratcheted up until they succeed.)  Divorced from governmental sponsorship because that will eventually corrupt anything as important as a monetary system (imho.)

I hope that Bitcoin remains completely and actively disassociated from any interaction or any involvement with any bodies of state (or corp/gov.)  Failing to do so will be a waste of time, or worse, I believe.  I hope that the community considers Bitcoin to be happy to be left alone, but willing to be a belligerent in asymmetrical warfare if that situation is foisted upon it.


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