on what condition can people have fath for bitcoin just like for gold?

[designfail]

Gold is a Great conductor and will become more and more useful and rare into the future,..

Not to mention Gold is rare throughout the universe created when Stars Super Nova,..

Imo, Gold and Btc cannot be compared other than their Price,..

So, maybe if there was a practical use for Btc such as conducting, then we would be talking,..

Bitcoin is Valuable to me because its the Original CryptoCurrency, we have to think about thousands of years into the future and Make a Place for BTC there.

There is a chance greater than zero that each of us's DNA sequence is mined somewhere up there, and somebody up there had collected their 25 "up-there-conis" for finding a "block".. There are about 6 Billion blocks found so far and lets say maximum 21 Billion blocks could exists at the same time, so some of them will disappear over time (i.e. "death"), more will be mined (i.e. "birth")..

[1714974417]

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[ecto]

Gold is a Great conductor and will become more and more useful and rare into the future,..

Not to mention Gold is rare throughout the universe created when Stars Super Nova,..

Imo, Gold and Btc cannot be compared other than their Price,..

So, maybe if there was a practical use for Btc such as conducting, then we would be talking,..

Bitcoin is Valuable to me because its the Original CryptoCurrency, we have to think about thousands of years into the future and Make a Place for BTC there.

There is a chance greater than zero that each of us's DNA sequence is mined somewhere up there, and somebody up there had collected their 25 "up-there-conis" for finding a "block".. There are about 6 Billion blocks found so far and lets say maximum 21 Billion blocks could exists at the same time, so some of them will disappear over time (i.e. "death"), more will be mined (i.e. "birth")..

https://i.imgur.com/xKfuLoO.jpg

[QuestionAuthority]

That's all correct if you can identify what's really true and what really constitutes progress. If you followed the truth of this forum starting two short years ago you would have already lost all of your money to MyBitcoin or Bitcoinica or GLBSE or Pirate@40 or on and on and on. If any other investment vehicle had this many problems so soon after introduction it would already be ancient history. Fanatical idealism is keeping Bitcoin alive.

Bitcoin isn't an investment vehicle. It's an asset that, when used properly, gives the ultimate control to the user.

Those "problems" you've listed are only problems because people ignore one simple rule: If you aren't the sole controller of your private keys, you don't have any bitcoins.

It's unfortunate that so many are willing to resort to traditional methods and give up control of their assets, but that should be a lesson for everyone else. Apparently many fail to learn from the mistakes of others.

It's also unfortunate that I am labeled as a fanatic because I simply want to retain control of my assets and not be persecuted for it.

Bitcoin does allow this kind of control, like nothing else in existence. So, don't expect it to become ancient history as long as people like me continue to value this property.

I'm happy that you kept all of your Bitcoins. You know I've been ripped off several times. I'm not discounting the value of holding on to your Bitcoins at all costs. You should protect that key like it was your house key. The problem is that a lot of us need cash to give Bitcoin value. Just holding on to it doesn't really create any value for us. When I was mining with video cards I needed to cash in some Bitcoins to pay the high electric bill and buy supplies to keep mining. Exchanges are necessary for that to happen. I'm sure I don't need to tell you how many exchanges have ripped people (including me) off. The very last exchange to screw me was CryptoXchange and I almost quit Bitcoin because of it. You'll get a laugh out of this: PatrickHarnett, MnW and Yankee convinced me it was a great trustworthy exchange because I was fed up with Trade Hill. lol

Bitcoin most certainly is an investment vehicle. I would go so far as to say, at this point it is mostly an investment vehicle. If I want to shop at that overpriced overstock.com I can simply use a credit card. I don't need to first exchange my cash for Bitcoins to do it. If I'm buying Bitcoins it's to hold and wait for them to appreciate not because I want to buy some junk online. I could do that before Bitcoin ever existed. If I mine Bitcoins then I want to hold them for sure because I want as large a return on my equipment investment as possible. If I bought my mining equipment from a scam artist like BFL then I really need to hold my coins or I may never ROI. Many people choose to use the numerous opportunities that are available on this forum to attempt to increase their small holdings of coin into a larger holding. They are promised a greater return and that's why they are here - profit. Let's face it, no one is using Bitcoin because their doctor said their health would improve if they got themselves a few Bitcoin. They want a fucking profit! Well guess what, they just made Bitcoin an investment vehicle.

[QuestionAuthority]

That's all correct if you can identify what's really true and what really constitutes progress. If you followed the truth of this forum starting two short years ago you would have already lost all of your money to MyBitcoin or Bitcoinica or GLBSE or Pirate@40 or on and on and on. If any other investment vehicle had this many problems so soon after introduction it would already be ancient history. Fanatical idealism is keeping Bitcoin alive.

I did two things:

A.  I showed that according to the Quantity Theory of Money, real output (Q) can increase without an increase in the money supply (it requires falling price levels instead).

B.  I discussed the idea of myth vs reality and presented my Theory of Dinosaurism.  

You seem to agree that this is all true.  

But I think you are also suggesting that "falling prices are bad" is some sort of truth, and that if we question this it represents "fanatical idealism."  Is this correct?


All groups have shared myths including bitcointalk--you call this groupthink in your signature.  Myths are part of being human and shape our society--they can help us or hinder us.  For example, the "HODL" myth helps us overcome fear during outbreaks of FUD.  So far this myth has been beneficial to its subscribers.  "Deflation is bad" is another myth that was helpful in growing the economy after the Great Depression and World War II.  I no longer subscribe to this myth, however.  

I don't agree that falling prices are bad. I have always believed that Bitcoin should not be pegged to the USD because that creates most of its problems. People should barter Bitcoin like any other commodity. Bitcoin could then be pegged in exchangeable value for product instead of being reliant on the US government to set its value (how many Bitcoins does that cost). There's a little of that going on but not nearly enough. Bitcoin business can't even operate without BitPay type business because someone needs to seamlessly exchange the spent Bitcoins for fiat because Bitcoin can't pay the bills. Everyone here preaches how fucked up the American Dollar is and how they can't wait until Bitcoin replaces that nasty old fiat and in the same breath they ask how many American Dollars Bitcoin is worth today: "Have you seen the price of Bitcoin today? It almost at $1000. Wow!" What a load of crap. You can't have your cake and eat it too. If the dollar crashes Bitcoin goes with it because Bitcoin is pegged to the dollar.

[fengshu]

http://buttcoin.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/buttcoin-infograph.png

should there be "known something about..." not "known nothing about..."?

[fengshu]

Those "problems" you've listed are only problems because people ignore one simple rule: If you aren't the sole controller of your private keys, you don't have any bitcoins.

yes, you are right. bitcoins = its private keys.
1  as assets,we need the community to keep bitcoin's advantage over its competitors all the time.
    while we can not promise it.
2  if we regard bitcoin as medium of exchange more then assets, it will have both fiat and gold's pros.

[QuestionAuthority]

That's all correct if you can identify what's really true and what really constitutes progress. If you followed the truth of this forum starting two short years ago you would have already lost all of your money to MyBitcoin or Bitcoinica or GLBSE or Pirate@40 or on and on and on. If any other investment vehicle had this many problems so soon after introduction it would already be ancient history. Fanatical idealism is keeping Bitcoin alive.

I did two things:

A.  I showed that according to the Quantity Theory of Money, real output (Q) can increase without an increase in the money supply (it requires falling price levels instead).

B.  I discussed the idea of myth vs reality and presented my Theory of Dinosaurism.  

You seem to agree that this is all true.  

But I think you are also suggesting that "falling prices are bad" is some sort of truth, and that if we question this it represents "fanatical idealism."  Is this correct?


All groups have shared myths including bitcointalk--you call this groupthink in your signature.  Myths are part of being human and shape our society--they can help us or hinder us.  For example, the "HODL" myth helps us overcome fear during outbreaks of FUD.  So far this myth has been beneficial to its subscribers.  "Deflation is bad" is another myth that was helpful in growing the economy after the Great Depression and World War II.  I no longer subscribe to this myth, however.  

I don't agree that falling prices are bad. I have always believed that Bitcoin should not be pegged to the USD because that creates most of its problems. People should barter Bitcoin like any other commodity. Bitcoin could then be pegged in exchangeable value for product instead of being reliant on the US government to set its value (how many Bitcoins does that cost). There's a little of that going on but not nearly enough. Bitcoin business can't even operate without BitPay type business because someone needs to seamlessly exchange the spent Bitcoins for fiat because Bitcoin can't pay the bills. Everyone here preaches how fucked up the American Dollar is and how they can't wait until Bitcoin replaces that nasty old fiat and in the same breath they ask how many American Dollars Bitcoin is worth today: "Have you seen the price of Bitcoin today? It almost at $1000. Wow!" What a load of crap. You can't have your cake and eat it too. If the dollar crashes Bitcoin goes with it because Bitcoin is pegged to the dollar.

Everything can be priced in everything else, it's just easiest to use the petrodollar (a.k.a. the reserve currency of the world) when pricing an asset that can be accessed anywhere in the world. If the petrodollar is replaced in the future, we will simply price everything in whatever takes its place. Would you prefer we tell you the exchange rate of Bitcoins in BigMacs or would that just be confusing because you would have to think about the dollar value of a BigMac first? If you are bartering, you are still pricing things and no matter how much you try to ignore a single currency, those items still have a price in that currency! I know that you know this, yet here you are writing this paragraph that I just read.

There is no denying the current world state of affairs and why we price things in dollars. That doesn't mean it's going to be like that forever.

I don't really give a shit if Bitcoin replaces fiat, I just want my assets to be mine. Bitcoin is the only thing that gives me this kind of control. Someone could take every physical asset I own, but they still could not access my bitcoins without my permission.

I don't want Bitcoin to be priced in anything (even though I like BigMacs). I want it to have its own value if it is going to be used as a currency. Do you see any of these BigMacs priced in dollars? http://www.burgerkingjapan.co.jp/campaign/cp111.html
No, they price them in their currency. I know its not priced in Dollars because there is no fucking way that I would pay $7.50 for a BigMac. Bitcoins need to have intrinsic value for trade just as a national currency does. It can be exchanged for any currency but it should have its own value first. Unfortunately it can't because people don't trade Bitcoin for something and then spend the Bitcoin they received on something else. There is always an exchange for fiat in the chain. If people want Bitcoin to replace fiat then stop using fiat and start using Bitcoin.

[fengshu]

I would argue that focusing on #1 and #2 tend to increase output, but the increase is mostly garbage output, not real and useful output.  Manipulating #1 and #2 cause us to exploit our natural resources at a faster rate but provides less real and useful output than if the economy was left to its own devices, also leaving less resources available for our children.  But this is a subject for another longer post….

this is very thinking.
high speed fait circulation bring problems, because commodities are at certain produce period, the period can not be shorten unlimited.
the same for bitcoin.

[vnvizow]

As long as we believe in BTC the value will be there 

[BitOnyx]

There isn't much of similarities between gold and bitcoin. Bitcoin will get stable enough to become new gold when almost all of it would be dig up. So in year.... 2100

[activebiz]

If people had a sure way to protect their bitcoins the price would by up *5 by now, maybe we should look at the idea of hardware wallets.

[shawshankinmate37927]

...maybe we should look at the idea of hardware wallets.

Yeah, I think hardware wallets will be a big step in the right direction.  Desktops, laptops, tablets, and smartphones aren't designed to protect private keys.

[cryptoanarchist]

If people had a sure way to protect their bitcoins the price would by up *5 by now, maybe we should look at the idea of hardware wallets.

There is a sure way to protect bitcoins, it simply takes some effort on the part of the user. There are cold wallets, offline wallets, M of N wallets, paper wallets, etc.

I agree that effortless protection would improve things for those who refuse to put forth the effort.

Isn't that one of the beauties of bitcoin? That stupid, lazy people will be the last people to catch on?

[Beliathon]

Condition? It's not about conditions, it's about IQ, and ability to learn - and more importantly - unlearn.

[fengshu]

If people had a sure way to protect their bitcoins the price would by up *5 by now, maybe we should look at the idea of hardware wallets.

this is a good idea on btc wallet security , and security bring public confidence on btc.

[E.exchanger]

People will trust btc as gold when the gov and banks start accepting and supporting btc as a currency!!!

[fengshu]

If people had a sure way to protect their bitcoins the price would by up *5 by now, maybe we should look at the idea of hardware wallets.

There is a sure way to protect bitcoins, it simply takes some effort on the part of the user. There are cold wallets, offline wallets, M of N wallets, paper wallets, etc.

I agree that effortless protection would improve things for those who refuse to put forth the effort.

Isn't that one of the beauties of bitcoin? That stupid, lazy people will be the last people to catch on?

A vocal minority around these parts will tell you that it's a flaw, not a feature.

I tend to believe that reality is something like this (not limited to Bitcoin either):

Security <---------------|-----------------> Convenience

The further you move towards one, the less you have of the other.

as long as people are accustomed to the way.

i think mostly like this :
much more safe for individual and enterprise<------------|------------> easy to understand for public