Is bitcoin on lightning network a different form of money?

[Robinhawkjay]

Im a new user, trying to understand wallets etc.

If lightning network is offchain, isnt the currency just backed by the bitcoin blockchain rather than bitcoin? Or does the mess of channel routings end up in a block on the chain without me having to put it there?

Also, using electrum on android, should i just use a different wallet? Seems often recommended for pc, but ... too complicated to be starting with?

[hatshepsut93]

Lightning network uses real Bitcoin transactions underneath, you just don't broadcast them but instead use them as your to keep track of your balance. So, it's not some token or virtual coin, it's real Bitcoin.

Or does the mess of channel routings end up in a block on the chain without me having to put it there?

Yes, kinda like that, when you choose to close your channel, you are just broadcasting the latest of these unbroadcasted signed transactions.

[Robinhawkjay]

But it doesn't exist in my wallet until its broadcast and added to a block... so how come the fees are nominal or zero?

[rhomelmabini]

You can try to learn more from here about Lightning Network https://academy.binance.com/blockchain/what-is-lightning-network

But it doesn't exist in my wallet until its broadcast and added to a block... so how come the fees are nominal or zero?

I think you'll have fee of it not that's equal to zero, yeah it's almost free but every transaction has its price. My question since I'm not that well versed on it as well is, does LN pose a danger to miners?

[Robinhawkjay]

You can try to learn more from here about Lightning Network https://academy.binance.com/blockchain/what-is-lightning-network

Cheers!

[hatshepsut93]

But it doesn't exist in my wallet until its broadcast and added to a block... so how come the fees are nominal or zero?

Fees are low because there's no expensive resource like block space for transactions to compete, only the nodes that route transactions know about them, so the capacity for transactions is much higher. On chain a full nodes stores all transactions in Bitcoin's existence, forever, which is why we have the block limit and why transaction fees get high sometimes.

[Robinhawkjay]

Fees are low because there's no expensive resource like block space for transactions to compete, only the nodes that route transactions know about them, so the capacity for transactions is much higher. On chain a full nodes stores all transactions in Bitcoin's existence, forever, which is why we have the block limit and why transaction fees get high sometimes.

I think what I don't get is how it ends up on the blockchain... and it has to or it isn't mine, right? At some point a miner must be hashing it into a block, otherwise as far as the archive is concerned it hasn't moved.
And there's no transaction fees or time elapsed... not sure if it's lightning network or blockchain transaction processing I'm misunderstanding or what.
The funds can't be available until a miner includes them in a block... So the payment is locked to my wallet by smart contract or whatever it is, but I couldn't spend it over the main chain until it gets hashed in? The alternative is it just disappears into lightning vr . Wrecking my head

[GeorgeJohn]

Im a new user, trying to understand wallets etc.

If lightning network is offchain, isnt the currency just backed by the bitcoin blockchain rather than bitcoin? Or does the mess of channel routings end up in a block on the chain without me having to put it there?

Also, using electrum on android, should i just use a different wallet? Seems often recommended for pc, but ... too complicated to be starting with?

You are welcomed to bitcointalk community, concerning lightning network,i will advice to research through Google to get the necessary information you need ,couple with the forum information

[yhiaali3]

I think you'll have fee of it not that's equal to zero, yeah it's almost free but every transaction has its price. My question since I'm not that well versed on it as well is, does LN pose a danger to miners?

As for your question: Does LN pose a danger to miners? The answer, in my opinion, does not matter because, in the end, all transactions must be recorded on the Bitcoin blockchain. I mean, when you open a payment channel using the LN between you and another person, you can do many transactions between you and him without  recording that on the blockchain, so there is no fee as long as the channel is open, but when the channel is closed, the final result must be recorded on the Bitcoin blockchain and therefore must be done Pay fees to miners.
In short, you must ultimately pay the miners in order for them to record the final transaction on the Bitcoin blockchain.

[Jating]

Im a new user, trying to understand wallets etc.

If lightning network is offchain, isnt the currency just backed by the bitcoin blockchain rather than bitcoin? Or does the mess of channel routings end up in a block on the chain without me having to put it there?

Also, using electrum on android, should i just use a different wallet? Seems often recommended for pc, but ... too complicated to be starting with?

I will refer to this threads below, it has a in-depth discussions about Lightning Network (LN), maybe you can find your answers there or even more:

• Lightning Network Discussion Thread
• Is the Lightning Network centralized?
• The Lightning Network FAQ

[slaman29]

LN's a tech, but it uses Bitcoin. A lot of crypto now use this socalled 2nd layer tech even Tether now is using OMG atop Ethereum. Doesn't change what it uses as the underlying currency!

Regards to the Electrum issue: on mobile is quite clunky I have to agree. It's perfect for desktop, very easy to use, but it seems a bit weird on mobile (Android) and to be fair doesn't even look like the same thing. I had to double check several times to see I was using an actual app made by the same guys.

[o_e_l_e_o]

I think what I don't get is how it ends up on the blockchain... and it has to or it isn't mine, right? At some point a miner must be hashing it into a block, otherwise as far as the archive is concerned it hasn't moved.

When you first use Lightning, you open a channel with another party by broadcasting a transaction to the blockchain. You can then move funds back and forth across your channel. When you do, both you and the other party in your channel sign a new transaction stating funds have moved, but you don't broadcast it. You can send money back and forth as many times as you like, each time signing a new transaction stating the new balance. Whenever you want to take the coins back out of Lightning and on to the main blockchain, you simply close your channel by broadcasting the most recent transaction, and whatever the balance on your channel was is how much bitcoin you can withdraw.

Basically you put bitcoin in, move it back and forth, and then take more/less/the same amount of bitcoin out again at a later date. There is a lot more going on behind the scenes in the form of hash timelock contracts to ensure honesty between participants, but that's the basis of it.

So the payment is locked to my wallet by smart contract or whatever it is, but I couldn't spend it over the main chain until it gets hashed in?

That's correct. Bitcoin in a Lightning channel cannot be spent on the main chain until the channel is closed by broadcasting the transaction with the channel's most recent balance.

[Ryker1]

Im a new user, trying to understand wallets etc.

If lightning network is offchain, isnt the currency just backed by the bitcoin blockchain rather than bitcoin? Or does the mess of channel routings end up in a block on the chain without me having to put it there?

Also, using electrum on android, should i just use a different wallet? Seems often recommended for pc, but ... too complicated to be starting with?

Well, that was too many queries and perhaps you need to study first how to use Lightning Network to the Electrum. Here is the thread that made by ^{[@BitCryptex]}, please read carefully and understand every detail because everything was stated are so important.
^{[ https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5259973.0 ]}
I suggest you to open your Electrum in a clean device, not by the device that prone to use by you daily.

[Robinhawkjay]

Thanks, all, for the help/homework. Formulating the question is the trick... apologies. Im going to avoid using mobile altogether, except for LN transactions, I think.

Still think lightning network should be considered bitcoin backed rather than bitcoin... Any takers?

[hermawan9416]

I don't quite understand the question, could you clarify?

[GGUL]

Topic "What does the Lightning Network need to become mainstream?" moved to altcoins.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5274368.msg55155201#msg55155201

That means something?

[Timelord2067]

I like the analogy of an abacus or the five ball novelty whereby the funds shift backwards and forwards between two points (and only those two points)

The novelty analogy demonstrates the first ball triggers the movement of the second, then third etc shifting the transaction across numerous channels.