Would you move jurisdiction to avoid tax on your coinage?

[figmentofmyass]

It makes me wonder, is there really no way you can hide away from your tax man's snooping at your Bitcoin or crypto profit?

Of course you can attempt to hide it. You might get away with it. You more might be nailed to wall and have your life blown up. In most countries tax declarations are taken on trust. It's not often they look further but when they do they do not mess around. People pay tax for the sake of a quiet life.

despite the supposedly egalitarian nature of the american tax audit system, i've seen multiple tax analysts (including former IRS workers) say audits are all about cost/benefit, and that's how the IRS structures their audit flagging system---to catch big fish, not small ones. actually it's a matter of fact now that i'm looking it up. if you make $1M+ then your chances of an audit go up almost 10x. https://money.com/audit-red-flags/

beyond that, for small fries like us, i'd like to think that if you cross all your Ts and dot all your Is---like reporting all the 1099 income bitcoin exchanges are handing to the IRS and play it smart by not claiming all sorts of deductions, credits, write-offs---that an audit is unlikely. especially when you consider how complex and time-consuming an audit of a crypto user could be.

now that i think about it, that's probably the motivation behind the mass letter campaigns they've been doing. they don't have anywhere near the resources to audit all those letter recipients. they're just hoping to scare 90% of them into filing amended returns and ponying up the unpaid taxes.

I don't have any ties so going elsewhere is no big deal for me. It would be a bit different if I had 50 kids and a disabled budgerigar. Handing over an extra quarter of one's entire profit, if it happens, would be enough to motivate me to consider shopping elsewhere.

that's the dream, ain't it? to go live on a beach somewhere where taxes and cost of living are cheap. i haven't amassed quite enough riches yet myself.

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[Lucius]

As long as it has a measurable value they will want to tax it. It doesn't need a legal definition as long as it's not explicitly illegal.
I find the radically different rules in each EU country kinda weird. You'd think by this point they would've started to harmonise it.

The EU is a group of countries that, out of some common interests, want to be together, but at the same time each country wants to be autonomous and independent in some respects. Personally, I have never liked the idea of such an association, which literally falls apart every time it encounters a crisis - and when it comes to cryptocurrencies, each country has a different policy.

Given the current situation of the EU and the rest of the world, it is very likely that the authorities will look for all possible ways to replenish the state treasuries - all this free money should be collected from somewhere.

I personally count on Bitcoin to be the usual means of payment in 5-10 years, so I won't even have to convert it to fiat - and then I can go on a trip around the world, so let anyone tax me - if they can

[gentlemand]

that's the dream, ain't it? to go live on a beach somewhere where taxes and cost of living are cheap. i haven't amassed quite enough riches yet myself.

I'd rather stay where I'm at but giving up that big a chunk is a motivator to think again. There's degrees of extremity. Some tax black holes are so out of the way or cabin feverish you'd probably spend what you were saving on trying to make it liveable, or bearable.

The tax havens I've been to all seemed a tad uptight and creepy. When the prime reason most of the population has to be there is money that's going to infect the vibe.

[coolcoinz]

I already have some backup plans in motion that allow me to avoid taxes. Not to give too much details, I have people willing to buy BTC from me for cash for a small fee, basically any amount, so I'm not really afraid of sudden capital gains taxes being imposed.
I'm planning to move for other reasons. The EU is becoming more and more socialist and the governments are making up some strange taxes every year. For instance people used to have wells on their properties, but now the EU is thinking about taxing people for the water they collect. I bet their next step is going to be taxing for rain collected from the roofs. We're going to have meters on our downspouts. In many places you even have to register your solar panels with the government and ask for permits to build a stupid wooden shed in your back yard.

[gentlemand]

I already have some backup plans in motion that allow me to avoid taxes. Not to give too much details, I have people willing to buy BTC from me for cash for a small fee, basically any amount, so I'm not really afraid of sudden capital gains taxes being imposed.

In this day and age a large amount of cash is a flat out liability in many places. Bizarre that it's come to this but if someone offered me tens or hundreds of thousands of Euros in cash I'd likely refuse it. There's only so much shopping and car filling I can do.

[coolcoinz]

^
Many EU states have the duty to accept cash written in the law, so it's really not that hard to spend cash. In the country it's customary to use cash everywhere, starting from gifts and ending in real estate purchases. Want to buy a car or a motorcycle? You go to a dude, write down the agreement on the spot, hand him cash and off you go. Got a job for a mechanic, a gardener, basically any other contractor? All of them will take cash.
I could think of a dozen clean and legal ways to spend 100k EUR within a week.

[typelau]

Tbh, I thought it was still 45% until a few months ago.... It'd encourage me to just keep holding bitcoin if the rates go up and wait on moving.

It'd make somewhere like Belgium (30% rate) much easier to move to though (they have a low statute of about 3 years if you move a company there and pass a language test in German or French).

I think it is a wise action on your side

[gentlemand]

^
Many EU states have the duty to accept cash written in the law, so it's really not that hard to spend cash. In the country it's customary to use cash everywhere, starting from gifts and ending in real estate purchases. Want to buy a car or a motorcycle? You go to a dude, write down the agreement on the spot, hand him cash and off you go. Got a job for a mechanic, a gardener, basically any other contractor? All of them will take cash.
I could think of a dozen clean and legal ways to spend 100k EUR within a week.

https://www.europe-consommateurs.eu/fileadmin/user_upload/eu-consommateurs/PDFs/PDF_EN/Limit_for_cash_payments_in_EU.pdf

It varies wildly between countries. And even if you do manage to buy a Southfork style ranch with cash in the middle of suburban Paris you're still likely to have a small problem explaining the origin of the cash.

[Lucius]

It varies wildly between countries. And even if you do manage to buy a Southfork style ranch with cash in the middle of suburban Paris you're still likely to have a small problem explaining the origin of the cash.

For some small things it is not a problem to sell BTC and use fiat to pay for goods and services of lesser value. Theoretically, no one will ask me where I got my BTC with which I paid for a plane ticket or hotel accommodation, but the origin of the property is something that is a very serious matter in some countries. I think that in Sweden, for example, there is an online database where everyone can look at what someone else owns and compare it with their income, and in case they suspect some irregularities they can very easily report it.

The EU is becoming more and more socialist and the governments are making up some strange taxes every year. For instance people used to have wells on their properties, but now the EU is thinking about taxing people for the water they collect. I bet their next step is going to be taxing for rain collected from the roofs. We're going to have meters on our downspouts. In many places you even have to register your solar panels with the government and ask for permits to build a stupid wooden shed in your back yard.

Water should be one of the basic human rights, and if it is on your property no one should ask you to pay taxes because you use it. And I know of cases in my country where people have to pay to use such water, but for now only if they use it in commercial agricultural production. A lot of things that were perfectly normal and free 20 years ago are no longer today, but it's just a result of the government's efforts to make people as dependent on the state as possible - and if you have your own water, produce your own food, your own electricity and maybe use Bitcoin - then you present a problem.

[teosanru]

In the UK there's talk of raising capital gains to be in line with income tax to pay for our virus holidays. For a large amount of profit in Bitcoin and friends that would mean an increase from 20% to 45%.

https://archive.is/VJrzY

There's a good chance of it not happening as it'll outrage the government's rich friends but if it does 45% would be way too much and I'd look seriously at relocating as there's not much keeping me here anyway. 20% I can absolutely live with. Over double and I'm going to get serious about shopping elsewhere.

Do you have a limit to your tolerance or would you stay put no matter what rates they threw at you? I expect many other countries will be looking at low hanging fruit too.

I would like to fetch some help that how is bitcoin or other coins taxed in your country as capital gains? Reading the bare text of law you generally consider tax on coins when they are realized into fiat. Are you paying tax even when you sell your coins in BTC pair? Because even that is relinquishment of an asset.

Coming to the tax rate, I feel that the whole world is having this problem of high taxes for individuals. Moving to a tax heaven too doesn't makes sense as these days all countries are placing certain restrictions on people having assets in tax heaven. My country notifies such countries as Notified jurisdictional areas and have placed certain increased tax rates on transactions with people of these countries without giving them the benefit of double tax avoidance agreements. Governments globally are now seeing these tax heavens companies as shady shell companies even though you carry a legitimate business.

[gentlemand]

Yes. Btc to altcoin is a taxable event too.it's classed as a disposal just like a sale into fiat. I'm sure many a trader didn't know that and ran up a vast potential bill. They'll likely get away with it but in future much less so.

Taxes are a fact of life and I'm fine with it provided they're reasonable enough. More than doubling is not reasonable.

[coolcoinz]

https://www.europe-consommateurs.eu/fileadmin/user_upload/eu-consommateurs/PDFs/PDF_EN/Limit_for_cash_payments_in_EU.pdf

It varies wildly between countries. And even if you do manage to buy a Southfork style ranch with cash in the middle of suburban Paris you're still likely to have a small problem explaining the origin of the cash.

Of course. It always depends on the value of a single purchase. It's much easier to hide the purchase of 2 small apartments than a big mansion in the suburbs.

For some small things it is not a problem to sell BTC and use fiat to pay for goods and services of lesser value. Theoretically, no one will ask me where I got my BTC with which I paid for a plane ticket or hotel accommodation, but the origin of the property is something that is a very serious matter in some countries. I think that in Sweden, for example, there is an online database where everyone can look at what someone else owns and compare it with their income, and in case they suspect some irregularities they can very easily report it.

In most EU countries they do it like this. When you buy property the notary has to report the value for tax purposes. The property and paid tax go into the database where they sometimes put the total value of your purchases against your paid income tax. If you paid very little = you had not much income and shouldn't be able to make that purchase.
Store purchases don't get reported this way. Nobody knows if you have a computer with a virtulal reality setup worth 10k USD in your room. Nobody knows if you have a swimming pool in the garden. These things don't get reported anywhere or compared against your income/taxes.

Water should be one of the basic human rights, and if it is on your property no one should ask you to pay taxes because you use it. And I know of cases in my country where people have to pay to use such water, but for now only if they use it in commercial agricultural production. A lot of things that were perfectly normal and free 20 years ago are no longer today, but it's just a result of the government's efforts to make people as dependent on the state as possible - and if you have your own water, produce your own food, your own electricity and maybe use Bitcoin - then you present a problem.

They are looking for money wherever they can, even if it means cheating people and stealing from them. I can give you some more ridiculous things the government came up with.
For instance, they are checking people's wells to find if they're not taking water from their wells and using it in the house. If you have such setup you are supposed to have a meter on your well water so that they can charge you for waste water.
They are also snooping around properties to see if people are not cutting trees without paying for them. Yes, you have to pay for each tree cut on your property and the cost depends on diameter of the trunk.
They are flying drones to check if people aren't building anything without permits. I'd agree if it was about the house, but they are comparing the pictures of your house with these made with drones to see if you did not add anything like a garage.
They are charging big properties with rain tax. If you have a big roof you have to pay for the rainwater. This is by far the most ridiculous tax.

Because of the above, I'll try my best to avoid whatever taxes I can and won't feel like a cheater or a thief. As long as the government will keep making up new ways to steal from me, I'll be doing the same.

[dothebeats]

On my side of the globe, I'm not really affected since the government here doesn't seem to have any interest in taxing crypto gains as of the moment and are still exploring options on where to get some taxes from. They are exploring internet streaming apps and even social media to be taxed which, to me, is kinda annoying and really unnecessary. But in the event that my coins are taxed wildly by that percentage, I'd say it's time to head out and find a country that is more forgiving in taxing cryptocurrencies. The Philippines is starting to think some crazy ideas to gather tax money from the citizens in order to make up for the lost profits from the pandemic, though little does the administration understand that its citizens are comprised mostly of middle-class families with just enough money to live comfortably here.

Yes. Btc to altcoin is a taxable event too.it's classed as a disposal just like a sale into fiat. I'm sure many a trader didn't know that and ran up a vast potential bill. They'll likely get away with it but in future much less so.

This is what I thought of some time since most traders are trying to find a workaround on btc taxation such as doing this. There would be no workaround if the exchanges are in cooperation with the government to impose these taxes.

Taxes are a fact of life and I'm fine with it provided they're reasonable enough. More than doubling is not reasonable.

And provided that they are really being used for the welfare of the society and not just going inside the pockets of those who are seated in the public offices.

[gentlemand]

Of course they ain't. Most of it is going on wastage or paying for things I'll never need or violently disagree with.

But it's the price of staying relatively free. Not a bargain but it's the only game in town.

[Polo7]

In the UK there's talk of raising capital gains to be in line with income tax to pay for our virus holidays. For a large amount of profit in Bitcoin and friends that would mean an increase from 20% to 45%.

https://archive.is/VJrzY

There's a good chance of it not happening as it'll outrage the government's rich friends but if it does 45% would be way too much and I'd look seriously at relocating as there's not much keeping me here anyway. 20% I can absolutely live with. Over double and I'm going to get serious about shopping elsewhere.

Do you have a limit to your tolerance or would you stay put no matter what rates they threw at you? I expect many other countries will be looking at low hanging fruit too.

london been money favorite destination uk pound use to be most demand currency at the times becouse the money the IMF loanded to 3 rd world countries been invested in london luxury proprties as we know those properties never ment to be they living there it was just excuses to move money into uk.


its win win situation they got money from IMF and they exchnaged this into uk good value currency.



what is uk now?  its like circus was party was but the mess is left behind.

uk economy was based on pure financial speculation the boom is popped and bye bye uk pound.



what can save the situation in uk?  need new investment and capital so the other country richest goverment officials and olcargars need to invest in uk then the demand to have uk pounds will grow and uk pound sterling will grow again if not then sorry uk pound will fall down and will be less worthed.

also a lot indian high inflated currency been invested in uk


the uk curreny high demand wich has made uk pound sterling strongest in the world.


in this economic situation the europe has world best situation right now on the economic market.

[Polo7]

what i see?  i see the goverment will start taking from the rich by high taxes.


to do this they had to leave from eu to make sure uk people dont start to move money to abroad.

everything is connected and worksstep by step i myself been in uk and i know exacly what is going on there.

the tax rising is only way to protect british pound sterling value.

[gentlemand]

The original idea of leaving the EU was put together by rich psycho cocksucker assholes who wanted to undercut the tax and regulatory regimes of nearby countries while destroying the quality of life of normal people to pay for it. It was not to raise taxes.

This is entirely a response to the Covid fun and its cost.

[Lucius]

~snip~

When you look at it from that angle than one can wonder for a reason where my money goes, especially if you don't have free health care available or see how hundreds of thousands of soldiers from your country are involved in various wars around the world due to geostrategic interests (otherwise they call it the spread of democracy).

I used to have free health care, and now I have to pay for every visit to the doctor or I have to pay a fixed fee every month to have free health care. What I see is that the EU is copying some things from the USA and I don’t like that, and I like it less and less to live in one such community where we are all in a union, but we are actually fighting each other at every opportunity.

[gentlemand]

I used to have free health care, and now I have to pay for every visit to the doctor or I have to pay a fixed fee every month to have free health care. What I see is that the EU is copying some things from the USA and I don’t like that, and I like it less and less to live in one such community where we are all in a union, but we are actually fighting each other at every opportunity.

Where's that? I haven't heard of countries having a full on downgrade.

Much of Europe has health insurance, either compulsory or top up. In Ireland you pay 50 Euros to see the doctor and pay a daily cost for a hospital stay. The idea of everywhere in Europe being free at point of contact isn't really true, but it still beats the pants off the US.

[Lucius]

Where's that? I haven't heard of countries having a full on downgrade.

Let's say it's in the country that last joined the EU. Previously, health insurance was completely free, but for years the so-called supplementary health insurance has been introduced and costs approximately 10 EUR per month - and if you do not have it, you have to pay for each visit to the doctor or each examination you do. For those who do not go to the doctor often, this is not a problem - but if by any chance you have to go to the hospital, the costs without such additional insurance are terribly high.