China Can Reverse Bitcoin Transactions?

[Ayiranorea]

If that could happen, now itself more people could've tried it. Importantly bitcoin network could've got a bad image and the governments had a strong proof to stand against the usage of bitcoin. Maybe before the specific number of transaction confirmation, there might be chances of reversal. Just because China has the largest number of miners, they can't take the entire network into control.

[bitmover]

The chinese government has full control over chinese businesses. There is no difference between the Chinese government and companies like Alibaba. Even Joint Ventures have to give all control over to a Chinese partner.

But we are not talking about big companies like alibaba.
We are talking about many small (compared to alibaba) mining companies which join pools with their hashing power.

Chinese government cannot control everything, and there are many small groups mining there. A pool isn't a single computer or a single entity.

[Findingnemo]

AFAIK,once the transaction reaches certain amount of confirmation then it is never possible to stop or reverse the transaction.

Even though more miners are located in China it doesn't mean Chines government has complete control over it,all they can do is to stop the mining process and nothing more.

[TedMosby]

AFAIK,once the transaction reaches certain amount of confirmation then it is never possible to stop or reverse the transaction.

Even though more miners are located in China it doesn't mean Chines government has complete control over it,all they can do is to stop the mining process and nothing more.

it's called 51% attack.
when a group of miners controlling more than 50% of the network's mining hash rate or computing power.
then, the blockchain can be controlled.
https://en.bitcoinwiki.org/wiki/51%25_attack

to estimate the 51% attack cost: https://www.crypto51.app


65% is a huge percentage for the bitcoin blockchain network. but I don't think that they will do it even if they can.
it's like a suicide project for the crypto and blockchain industry/ecosystem in china.
which includes who has this 65% power.

[Debonaire217]

The question is, can China Sync all of the nodes there just for the sake of manipulating the blocks real time in just 10 minutes? I don't think so, the 51% attack on bitcoin is still impossible as nodes as very well distributed.

I am just curious, if china plans to do that, why would they reverse a transaction for? There's no reason because the only block that they have the chance to manipulate is the present block.

[Findingnemo]

AFAIK,once the transaction reaches certain amount of confirmation then it is never possible to stop or reverse the transaction.

Even though more miners are located in China it doesn't mean Chines government has complete control over it,all they can do is to stop the mining process and nothing more.

it's called 51% attack.
when a group of miners controlling more than 50% of the network's mining hash rate or computing power.
then, the blockchain can be controlled.
https://en.bitcoinwiki.org/wiki/51%25_attack

to estimate the 51% attack cost: https://www.crypto51.app


65% is a huge percentage for the bitcoin blockchain network. but I don't think that they will do it even if they can.
it's like a suicide project for the crypto and blockchain industry/ecosystem in china.
which includes who has this 65% power.

I thought it is only possible for the transaction which are in the queue even if 51% attack getting executed. But the miners are not owned by the single authority right and also there will be no gain to the attacker other than the death of the bitcoin.

So, is it really possible for China to execute if they really want to?

[BrewMaster]

I thought it is only possible for the transaction which are in the queue even if 51% attack getting executed. But the miners are not owned by the single authority right and also there will be no gain to the attacker other than the death of the bitcoin.

So, is it really possible for China to execute if they really want to?

theoretically it is possible but in reality it costs a ton of money and would require a very covert operation and coordination of at least 4 big mining pools to abuse the miners' hash power that has connected to their pool and perform such an attack.
and the result of such an attack would simply be reversal of some blocks, to reverse a transaction they actually have to be the ones sending such transaction and another entity has to be receiving it and the amount has to be huge for it to cause any issues. otherwise worst thing would be turning confirmed txs to unconfirmed which would be picked up by the 49% of the miners again.

[Twentyonepaylots]

It's simply impossible for Chinese government to "take over" enough miners. They even failed to shut down large facilites when the government considered to ban mining: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-cryptocurrency/china-wants-to-ban-bitcoin-mining-idUSKCN1RL0C4
They did not try in the end most likely because the government knows very well that an attempt would fail.

People get confused about miners based in China and Chinese Government mining.

Chinese Government, as far as I know, there are no miners from the chinese government.  China cannot control bitcoin.

I think that there is something wrong with the headline of the article, instead of using the term 'chinese miners' they used word 'China' generally which is confusing at all coz China's government don't have any hands on these miners, or just so we think about it, but I'm sure they don't.

Additionally, even if  Chinese government did, they wouldnt be able to revert a transaction. Only one, and then they would all be blacklisted from all bitcoin nodes and kicked out of the network.

There is no single evidence in the article, no specific way of reversing the transaction, it says that ' China can potentially reverse bitcoin transactions' lol how?

[nutildah]

But I think that's why they always recommend 3-5 confirmation because below can be reversible?

Besides the whole "51% attack" / "deep reorg" hypotheticals:

Back in the day when blocks could actually be orphaned, it would make sense to require multiple confirmations as one confirmation could potentially be undone if it was included in an orphaned block. In June 2015, there were actually 7 blocks orphaned in one day, but (according to blockchain.com) there hasn't been a single orphaned block since June 2017.

At this point I think 1 confirmation should be sufficient for any regular purpose, but if you want to be extra careful then wait for 2 confirmations, max. After 2 confirmations a transaction is steadfastly and forever part of the blockchain, regardless of what haters think mining pools in China can do about it, LOL.

[MCobian]

I'm not surprised that the one who said China can reverse Bitcoin transactions is Chris Larsen. Because the goal is to spread FUD,
in order for the Bitcoin price to fall. Chris Larsen wanted to make Ripple beat Bitcoin, but unfortunately that's not possible.
After all, 65% of crypto mining is in China, that doesn't mean China can reverse Bitcoin transactions.

[TedMosby]

I thought it is only possible for the transaction which are in the queue even if 51% attack getting executed. But the miners are not owned by the single authority right and also there will be no gain to the attacker other than the death of the bitcoin.

So, is it really possible for China to execute if they really want to?

yes, they can.
If I am not mistaken,
in 2014, a mining pool called Ghash.io, they once reached more than 50% the overall Bitcoin hashrate.
https://www.coindesk.com/ghash-commits-40-hashrate-cap-bitcoin-mining-summit

theoretically it is possible but in reality it costs a ton of money and would require a very covert operation and coordination of at least 4 big mining pools to abuse the miners' hash power that has connected to their pool and perform such an attack.
and the result of such an attack would simply be reversal of some blocks, to reverse a transaction they actually have to be the ones sending such transaction and another entity has to be receiving it and the amount has to be huge for it to cause any issues. otherwise worst thing would be turning confirmed txs to unconfirmed which would be picked up by the 49% of the miners again.

10 minutes of 51% attack will cost $1 billion. (-Andreas Antonopoulos)
https://cointelegraph.com/news/raising-the-security-bar-dash-claims-a-51-attack-is-not-enough

the legend says:
If it can’t be 51% attacked, it isn’t decentralized.

[Reatim]

I'm not surprised that the one who said China can reverse Bitcoin transactions is Chris Larsen. Because the goal is to spread FUD,
in order for the Bitcoin price to fall. Chris Larsen wanted to make Ripple beat Bitcoin, but unfortunately that's not possible.
After all, 65% of crypto mining is in China, that doesn't mean China can reverse Bitcoin transactions.

You Got it right mate,News coming from Chris Larsen must not be given any attentions since He is a Ripple Supporter and a enemy of Bitcoin.
I rather not reading any article shared by this as it is only as waste of time.

The question is, can China Sync all of the nodes there just for the sake of manipulating the blocks real time in just 10 minutes? I don't think so, the 51% attack on bitcoin is still impossible as nodes as very well distributed.

I am just curious, if china plans to do that, why would they reverse a transaction for? There's no reason because the only block that they have the chance to manipulate is the present block.

they can't mate,This is  a FUD and not be tolerated,China cannot reverse transaction that is im[possible to happen.

[The Cryptovator]

The article is quite surprising to me. We know that bitcoin is an irreversible currency and most likely that's one the reason popular. But fortunately, it's impossible, and here is an explanation. If it was possible then I don't think abusers (either from china or from other countries) will sit back until they own all the bitcoins. Bitcoin wasn't designed like that. If incase it happen then bitcoin code should rewrite by developers. But I believe it will never happen ever.

[Memminger]

I am confused, bitcoin transactions are irreversible, it is true they hold the majority of the miners but how would that matter in this situation? Is this because of the blocks that they can manage? Even with all of that I doubt it.

I am also confused about it but I think it isn't really true because if it is then it should have been a major news on crypto already.
And how could they reverse the transaction when it is already being mined?

[LogitechMouse]

No further explanation.

Bitcoin's transactions can't be reversed and if they can do it then most of the people can do it too. This is just a stupid opinion from a member of the XRP team. He is just spreading fuds again regarding Bitcoin . That's all.

[GreatArkansas]

I'm not surprised that the one who said China can reverse Bitcoin transactions is Chris Larsen. Because the goal is to spread FUD,
in order for the Bitcoin price to fall.
(...)

Most of the people said this, because Chris Larsen is connected with XRP. Let's say someone said it without connected to other altcoins or shitcoins.
Most of us for sure hate XRP here, but Chris Larsen is just saying his opinion, let's not ignore it because he is connected with XRP.
That's why I created the thread to discuss about the reversing some Bitcoin transactions if miners will coordinate somehow.

[Mahanton]

They can say all things that they do want and for people or the community to believe on then they should give out proof or sample. These kind of claims arent really that

something new into this field knowing these Ripple guys will really make out some Fud about reverse transaction is totally a bullshit thing for them to claim.

China is big and financially capable but doing this reverse thing or issue isnt really that possible.

[Hypnosis00]

It's a BIG NO, I really don't believe it. We must have to keep believing that all transactions are not reversible and we better stop talking about this coz we know that not all people have time to read the whole thread and might think that it can be possible. It should be clear that it is not going to happen and that is what we thought since before and should be until forever.

[BitSat19]

I'm not surprised that the one who said China can reverse Bitcoin transactions is Chris Larsen. Because the goal is to spread FUD,
in order for the Bitcoin price to fall. Chris Larsen wanted to make Ripple beat Bitcoin, but unfortunately that's not possible.
After all, 65% of crypto mining is in China, that doesn't mean China can reverse Bitcoin transactions.

You Got it right mate,News coming from Chris Larsen must not be given any attentions since He is a Ripple Supporter and a enemy of Bitcoin.
I rather not reading any article shared by this as it is only as waste of time.

The question is, can China Sync all of the nodes there just for the sake of manipulating the blocks real time in just 10 minutes? I don't think so, the 51% attack on bitcoin is still impossible as nodes as very well distributed.

I am just curious, if china plans to do that, why would they reverse a transaction for? There's no reason because the only block that they have the chance to manipulate is the present block.

they can't mate,This is  a FUD and not be tolerated,China cannot reverse transaction that is im[possible to happen.

Its really confusing because now many peoples are concerning about bitcoins transactions if this is impossible then can you give any update how is this impossible because they are claiming that they are able to do this and few experts sure they can do this even its very difficult so please give some update about this.

[Sadlife]

51% attack is pretty much possible given they have most of the mining center, they could reverse or block transactiom but with Bitcoin's current state its impossible to do so. All they can do is, double spend one transaction until they're kick out of the network and reprogram the nodes. It would cost them billions of billions just for that one transaction.