China Can Reverse Bitcoin Transactions?

[GreatArkansas]

I am surprised on what I saw in Forbes article lately.

"Chris Larsen, Executive Chair Of Ripple, Argues China Can Reverse Bitcoin Transactions" - READ MORE

According to Larsen, “…at least 65 percent of cryptocurrency mining is concentrated in China, which means the Chinese government has the majority needed to wield control over those protocols and can effectively block or reverse transactions”

My question is, is this really possible? Does it mean if 65% of cryptocurrency mining is located in China then they can possible to reverse Bitcoin transactions? Unless if they will all cooperate.

This is kinda bit scary since when I started to own and use Bitcoin, I haven't saw or experience reversing some Bitcoin transaction.

So, if this will ever happen, what could be possible effects or downsides in Bitcoin or in whole cryptocurrency?

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[FlightyPouch]

I am confused, bitcoin transactions are irreversible, it is true they hold the majority of the miners but how would that matter in this situation? Is this because of the blocks that they can manage? Even with all of that I doubt it.

[TravelMug]

This has been previously discussed in this thread, Chris Larsen, Chair Of Ripple, Argues China Can Reverse Bitcoin Transactions.

[harizen]

Countered by the article here:

https://www.btctimes.com/news/no-china-cannot-reverse-bitcoin-transactions

It's true that most mining pools were in China but it's not that simple and really complicated to make such a reversal transaction attempt.

And I also doubt they will really do that aggressively*. I mean, why?

[BitMaxz]

That's impossible to happen never heard that there is someone who can reverse the confirmed transaction.
Maybe possible on some altcoin but not for bitcoin.

But I think that's why they always recommend 3-5 confirmation because below can be reversible?

[coupable]

Countered by the article here:

https://www.btctimes.com/news/no-china-cannot-reverse-bitcoin-transactions

It's true that most mining pools were in China but it's not that simple and really complicated to make such a reversal transaction attempt.

And I also doubt they will really do that aggressively*. I mean, why?

Impossible to happen. Simply because China will be the first victim to lose its position build over many years. It's like when we think about how quantum computers can compromise the concept of cryptocurrency in general.

[seoincorporation]

This is possible with the 51% attack... But no one says it would be cheap or efficient.

Lets say china, sends 100,000 btc to an exchange, then sell the bitcoins and after that they use the network to pus a block where the 100,000 btc goes to another address and not to the exchange, since they have more of the network the valid blockchain will be that one and all the nodes will update to it.

But after that, we could see a fork like the one we see with ETH on the DAO incident. So, it can happen, but it could be fixed.

[1miau]

Well, another point why we should trade things made / said by Ripple with caution. I think this is just a way to get publicity for their shitcoin XRP.

It's simply impossible for Chinese government to "take over" enough miners. They even failed to shut down large facilites when the government considered to ban mining: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-cryptocurrency/china-wants-to-ban-bitcoin-mining-idUSKCN1RL0C4
They did not try in the end most likely because the government knows very well that an attempt would fail.

[tbct_mt2]

Well, another point why we should trade things made / said by Ripple with caution. I think this is just a way to get publicity for their shitcoin XRP.

It's simply impossible for Chinese government to "take over" enough miners. They even failed to shut down large facilites when the government considered to ban mining: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-cryptocurrency/china-wants-to-ban-bitcoin-mining-idUSKCN1RL0C4
They did not try in the end most likely because the government knows very well that an attempt would fail.

Government can not take over all needed big mining pools at set up at the same time to dominate the network hashrates to do replay attacks and reverse transactions. Basically, the longer your transaction was confirmed (confirmations) the harder the government or anyone else can dig very deeper to past layer of blockchain transaction to reverse yours.

If a transaction is confirmed after one month, it is impossible to reverse it. This topic and this question reminds me the importance of keep a part of my bitcoin investment in off-line status. Off-line keep it safe from attacks and it does help to increase the total confirmations it has over time. Together, it help my bitcoin is safe enough.

One way to think about the blockchain is like layers in a geological formation, or glacier core sample. The surface layers might change with the seasons, or even be blown away before they have time to settle. But once you go a few inches deep, geological layers become more and more stable. By the time you look a few hundred feet down, you are looking at a snapshot of the past that has remained undisturbed for millions of years. In the blockchain, the most recent few blocks might be revised if there is a chain recalculation due to a fork. The top six blocks are like a few inches of topsoil. But once you go more deeply into the blockchain, beyond six blocks, blocks are less and less likely to change. After 100 blocks back, there is so much stability that the coinbase transaction—the transaction containing newly mined bitcoin—can be spent. A few thousand blocks back (a month) and the blockchain is settled history, for all practical purposes. While the protocol always allows a chain to be undone by a longer chain and while the possibility of any block being reversed always exists, the probability of such an event decreases as time passes until it becomes infinitesimal.

In a different story, total full nodes in China is small compares to other nations:
- Total full nodes: 8086
- US: 2264
- Germany: 1514
- France: 587
- Netherlands: 389
- Canada: 279
- SG: 272
- Great Britain: 247
- Russia: 197
- China: 180

https://bitaps.com/

Another fear that repeatedly raises is risk from quantum computing on Bitcoin. It is another joke and is used to create FUDs.

[Darker45]

Countered by the article here:

https://www.btctimes.com/news/no-china-cannot-reverse-bitcoin-transactions

This was countered over and over again. I don't understand why this kind of fear is still sown by certain personalities. Oh, well, spreading FUD may benefit their own coins, of course. But they should know better, that pulling Bitcoin down, the very foundation of crypto, might cause everything to crumble down.

And this:

“It’s not hard to imagine a dystopian future. A U.S. defense payment to an ally could be blocked or reversed”, says Larsen.

Does Larsen foresee a future in which the US government itself would be using Bitcoin?

[meanwords]

“It’s not hard to imagine a dystopian future. A U.S. defense payment to an ally could be blocked or reversed”, says Larsen.

Does Larsen foresee a future in which the US government itself would be using Bitcoin?

It's most likely that he is saying that to scare newbies even further since a lot people have been imagining that the US might even use Bitcoin at some point in the future. A statement that is too absurd but people will eventually get tired of this anyway.

[pooya87]

this FUD article was already discussed on this forum (in the link posted above) and it is not the first time these Ripple guys try spreading FUD about bitcoin and the news sites publish it. they actually do it quite often. what we don't see is what they are doing behind the scene, which is selling their shitcoin to the centralized world. so they have to attack bitcoin like this and then go on by saying their technology (the PoS Ripple which is severely flawed and can indeed be reversed) is better.
#ReadBetweenTheLines

[peter0425]

Another china issue,so Now it is cryptocurrency the next target of China to take over?hahaha

I don't believe that this is indeed,because Bitcoin transaction is irreversible and even that they have the majority of miners meaning they can break the protocols that easy.

i still believe in safeties of crypto and hope China is not into making it difficult.

[imstillthebest]

china did it again , this country always known to have a control onto something  but am i the only one that thinks that this is useful ? like for example when a hacker stole something and he send the coins , we can request to reverse or to block those transactions that were coming from a suspected address .

its not scary or threatening as long as they will use those special powers on good use .

[Warkop]

In my opinion something like this is impossible, because a confirmed transaction cannot be returned so there is no need to worry about this FUD, because in my opinion they are just scaring everyone by making uncertain articles about this, maybe this is just their game for makes everyone panic and everyone who panics will throw away the Bitcoin they hold.

[bitmover]

It's simply impossible for Chinese government to "take over" enough miners. They even failed to shut down large facilites when the government considered to ban mining: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-cryptocurrency/china-wants-to-ban-bitcoin-mining-idUSKCN1RL0C4
They did not try in the end most likely because the government knows very well that an attempt would fail.

People get confused about miners based in China and Chinese Government mining.

Chinese Government, as far as I know, there are no miners from the chinese government.  China cannot control bitcoin.

Additionally, even if  Chinese government did, they wouldnt be able to revert a transaction. Only one, and then they would all be blacklisted from all bitcoin nodes and kicked out of the network.

[Becky666]

He should know by now that, cheap publicity will remain cheap. Concentrate on your shitcoins ripple and let Bitcoin be, bitcoin has nothing to do with your inability to measure up with other top coins.

Bitcoin transaction was only reversed onces in history due to a hack back in "2010 when 91 billion of Bitcoin was created from tin air by anonymous hacker". Bitcoin transactions can't be reverse even though China had 65% of the mining rings. During the China ban on bitcoin, how many of these miners were affected?.

[playingpolice]

It's simply impossible for Chinese government to "take over" enough miners. They even failed to shut down large facilites when the government considered to ban mining: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-cryptocurrency/china-wants-to-ban-bitcoin-mining-idUSKCN1RL0C4
They did not try in the end most likely because the government knows very well that an attempt would fail.

People get confused about miners based in China and Chinese Government mining.

Chinese Government, as far as I know, there are no miners from the chinese government.  China cannot control bitcoin.

Additionally, even if  Chinese government did, they wouldnt be able to revert a transaction. Only one, and then they would all be blacklisted from all bitcoin nodes and kicked out of the network.

The chinese government has full control over chinese businesses. There is no difference between the Chinese government and companies like Alibaba. Even Joint Ventures have to give all control over to a Chinese partner.

[Jet Cash]

Are most of the miners in China, or are they owned by Chinese?
Don't forget that mining pools are large groups of people providing hash power. If their power is abused, then they can move to another pool.

[jademaxsuy]

I hope this not true because it is somehow could be use for cheating. We do not want that to happen and since bitcoin was believed already to have a transaction that is irriversible.

Anyway all things that has done has news to it. There will come a time that if what they say is true will going to reveal itself in the future. For now, enjoying what bitcoin could offer is better idea than to think something not doing right with the system.

I do believe also with the bitcoin system that it could not be that easy to make irriversible transactions. It is even way harder to decrypt a btc so to would be likewise to the system that has been fully functional and establish.