Bitcoin Forum
April 24, 2024, 10:16:41 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Total power used to create the Bitcoin blockchain  (Read 274 times)
Wexlike (OP)
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1473
Merit: 1086



View Profile
September 15, 2020, 03:05:55 AM
Merited by suchmoon (4), El duderino_ (3), vapourminer (1), xhomerx10 (1), Hueristic (1), JayJuanGee (1), stompix (1)
 #1

Just a few moments ago this question popped to my mind. I was curious and asked myself how much raw power was used in the process of building the Bitcoin blockchain.

Actually this is a very interesting and research paper worthy question to answer, after all we're building the new digital pyramids of our era brick by brick - or better block by block. I started the question in the Wall Observer thread, but I'd like to concentrate the discussion and the research in a specific thread so it won't get buried under thousands of pages.

xhomerx10 started to work on it already and just came up with a very interesting observation, that even the bandwidth should be accounted in the equation to get an accurate picture.

Here are the postings from the WO thread:


An interesting question just popped in my mind:

How much kWh was used to create the current Blockchain?

Should be somehow possible to calculate it based on the given mining hardware and mining difficulty.


From inception or for each new block?  


Purely from a scientific point of view. And from inception, thus the genesis block.

Would be nice to see(feel) the monumental work and energy that was put to secure the blockchain and to get an impression and a feel of how much power was used to create this distributed ledger.


An interesting question just popped in my mind:

How much kWh was used to create the current Blockchain?

Should be somehow possible to calculate it based on the given mining hardware and mining difficulty.

Possible to estimate, yes; but I don’t see how it could be easy.  That would require cost/efficiency estimates for every generation of miners:  CPU (various optimized implementations and CPU models), GPU (ditto), FPGA, every generation of ASIC...

Does a collection of those historical data even exist anywhere?  If you folks discussing this were to gather in the first instance, the effort may be worth a research paper.  Maybe one already exists (with data up to some past point).


Purely from a scientific point of view. And from inception, thus the genesis block.

Would be nice to see(feel) the monumental work and energy that was put to secure the blockchain and to get an impression and a feel of how much power was used to create this distributed ledger.

I don’t think that the historical electricity cost would give a clear view of the current security of the Bitcoin blockchain.  With ASIC hardware, you could easily outrun the whole early CPU-mined Bitcoin network at drastically lower energy cost!  Of course, as you continued rewriting blockchain history, sooner or later, you would slam into the historical point at which the real Bitcoin network’s hashrate exceeded your hardware’s capabilities.  From that point onwards, you would just get further and further behind with your fake blockchain, as the chaintip of the real Bitcoin network keeps advancing faster than you can chase it.*

Still, yes, the energy-cost accounting would be historically interesting.

purely for science

The real kind!

(* And one of the marvellous properties of the Nakamoto Consensus is that the “real” chain can be selected by an isolated node with no information except the block data alleging one or more consensus-rule valid chains.  Most-work (not “longest”) chain wins, and that’s that.  Not even a trustworthy realtime clock source is required.  It is the whole point of how this is supposed to work; but somehow, I often see people missing it—usually when they want to suggest some “improvement” which would break Bitcoin’s security without even achieving what they expect.)




What people forget on these type calculations is all those that mined but didn't win a block, that is part of the calculations as that is what creates the dif.


Working on it...

 Transferring 10 MB of data uses about the amount of energy in a AA battery which is 0.0039 kWh
Here are the top ten viewed YouTube music videos and the number of times they were viewed (while I compiled this tonight).

Song_Title_Artist__Uniform_Resource_Locator__Number_of_Views_
DespacitoLuis_Fonsi_ft._Daddy_Yankeehttps://youtu.be/kJQP7kiw5Fk6965149726
Baby_SharkPINKFONGhttps://youtu.be/XqZsoesa55w6555048616
Shape_of_YouEd_Sheeranhttps://youtu.be/JGwWNGJdvx84974976171
See_You_AgainWiz_Khalifa_ft._Charlie_Puthhttps://youtu.be/RgKAFK5djSk4721137015
Uptown_FunkMark_Ronson_ft._Bruno_Marshttps://youtu.be/OPf0YbXqDm03945458571
Gangnam_Style_PSYhttps://youtu.be/9bZkp7q19f03782347210
SorryJustin_Bieberhttps://youtu.be/fRh_vgS2dFE3338412458
SugarMaroon_5https://youtu.be/09R8_2nJtjg3281040028
RoarKaty_Perryhttps://youtu.be/CevxZvSJLk83172242295
Thinking_Out_LoudEd_Sheeranhttps://youtu.be/lp-EO5I60KA3072397098

 The average video play time is ~ 4 minutes which equates to about 40 MB of data transfer per video per view.
The total number of views for the 10 songs above is 43808209188.
This translates to 683408063.3328 kWh of energy for the data transfer alone.  

 I'm just warming up.  Thanks for the confidence and the pressure JJG, it will help me to achieve the optimal level of arousal required to complete my mission.

 Wait, should I even bother to include data transfer for pool mining or just the CPU/GPU/FPGA/ASIC power required for hashing?

  Don't worry @Hueristic.  I'll use the network hash rate in my calculation to ensure the energy usage from all miners is included.

edit: SMF seems to insert superfluous breaks when translating BBcode to HTML.


Damn, that's the spirit - awesome !

I was thinking of only the power required to run the hash rate. But if transferring the block chain to thousands of different peers at a specific time (different sizes, varying amount of nodes, etc) makes an extra impact to the total power usage, it would be awesome to include it as well for the big picture.

My main idea is to have a given number to show how much raw power was put into building the blockchain, to show that it is not backed by nothing, but that we are building the new digital pyramids.
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
1713953801
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1713953801

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1713953801
Reply with quote  #2

1713953801
Report to moderator
1713953801
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1713953801

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1713953801
Reply with quote  #2

1713953801
Report to moderator
philipma1957
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 4102
Merit: 7763


'The right to privacy matters'


View Profile WWW
September 15, 2020, 04:09:53 AM
Last edit: September 15, 2020, 04:20:29 AM by philipma1957
 #2

me like.

lets pretend todays power use.

off the top of my head 6000 megawatts per hour. for sept 14 2020.

i will show some math for todays guess.

bitcoin hash rate charts. show 125-145 eh daily.

that is

135eh average or
135,000 ph or
135,000,000 th

at 50 watts a th  that is  6,750,000,000 watts

or  6,750,000 Kwatts

or 6750 mega watts.

some will argue that the network is 40 watts a th.

that is 5,400 mega watts.

so we are using 5,400-6750 mega watts an hour.

roughly all of niagara falls usa and canada power plants.

all ballpark in my head math.  but to be fair i did this breakdown for daily numbers at least 25 times since 2014.



if you said 5000 to 7000 megawatts an hour for sept 14 2020 i am fairly sure you have guessed correctly.


▄▄███████▄▄
▄██████████████▄
▄██████████████████▄
▄████▀▀▀▀███▀▀▀▀█████▄
▄█████████████▄█▀████▄
███████████▄███████████
██████████▄█▀███████████
██████████▀████████████
▀█████▄█▀█████████████▀
▀████▄▄▄▄███▄▄▄▄████▀
▀██████████████████▀
▀███████████████▀
▀▀███████▀▀
.
 MΞTAWIN  THE FIRST WEB3 CASINO   
.
.. PLAY NOW ..
Last of the V8s
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1652
Merit: 4392


Be a bank


View Profile
September 15, 2020, 06:48:01 AM
Merited by Hueristic (1), JayJuanGee (1)
 #3

https://twitter.com/blockbain/status/1305539345991036933



a fair few

most of the work's been done. when in doubt ask @blockbain. he's an amenable chap and knows all about the stuffs

just needs totting up to get your answer

JayJuanGee
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3696
Merit: 10143


Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"


View Profile
September 15, 2020, 07:07:19 AM
 #4

https://twitter.com/blockbain/status/1305539345991036933



a fair few

most of the work's been done. when in doubt ask @blockbain. he's an amenable chap and knows all about the stuffs

just needs totting up to get your answer

You are taking all the fun out of doing the work from scratch.

1) Self-Custody is a right.  There is no such thing as "non-custodial" or "un-hosted."  2) ESG, KYC & AML are attack-vectors on Bitcoin to be avoided or minimized.  3) How much alt (shit)coin diversification is necessary? if you are into Bitcoin, then 0%......if you cannot control your gambling, then perhaps limit your alt(shit)coin exposure to less than 10% of your bitcoin size...Put BTC here: bc1q49wt0ddnj07wzzp6z7affw9ven7fztyhevqu9k
xhomerx10
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3822
Merit: 7962



View Profile
September 15, 2020, 02:30:35 PM
 #5

https://twitter.com/blockbain/status/1305539345991036933



a fair few

most of the work's been done. when in doubt ask @blockbain. he's an amenable chap and knows all about the stuffs

just needs totting up to get your answer

 Well that simplifies things!  Thanks Mr. Last of the V8s Smiley
xhomerx10
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3822
Merit: 7962



View Profile
September 15, 2020, 02:56:54 PM
Merited by vapourminer (2), stompix (1)
 #6

source: https://twitter.com/blockbain/status/1304223971148210177

Hash Rate

ASIC Efficiency

Hash Rate Efficiency

Energy Expended


 
1"I estimated the minimum #bitcoin network electrical energy by year with on-chain & equipment data.
(hashes/yr (colored by era))* (average miner J/Th) = energy/year
Total Energy Minimum: 96,029,700,113 kWh (Block 1 - 647,693)"

1Quoted from T.₿ain PΣ C₿P
@blockbain


 
Ucy
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 2576
Merit: 401


View Profile
September 15, 2020, 03:02:06 PM
 #7

I am not really sure if it's a good idea to compare the electricity consumption of those songs listed above with Bitcoins'. They don't really look as important/valuable as Bitcoin, and probably don't deserve to consume too much. In my opinion, it's OK for Bitcoin to consume lots of electricity for good uses and for security, as long as the energy is efficiently used... and comes from good/clean sources.
xhomerx10
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3822
Merit: 7962



View Profile
September 15, 2020, 09:18:08 PM
 #8

I am not really sure if it's a good idea to compare the electricity consumption of those songs listed above with Bitcoins'. They don't really look as important/valuable as Bitcoin, and probably don't deserve to consume too much. In my opinion, it's OK for Bitcoin to consume lots of electricity for good uses and for security, as long as the energy is efficiently used... and comes from good/clean sources.

 Much like Bitcoin, the music used in the example has the ability to transcend cultural and language barriers.  I hope that one day, Bitcoin is just as popular as any one of those songs; hence the comparison.
xhomerx10
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3822
Merit: 7962



View Profile
September 15, 2020, 09:24:32 PM
Merited by Hueristic (1), JayJuanGee (1)
 #9

 All the required work plus a presentation had already been done.  
  
Cryptocurrency Proof-of-Work Mining Energy Consumption | Tyler Bain

stompix
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2870
Merit: 6264


Blackjack.fun


View Profile
September 16, 2020, 04:05:55 AM
 #10

Working on it...
Transferring 10 MB of data uses about the amount of energy in a AA battery which is 0.0039 kWh

Eureka, I have found the culprits, now we can point the finger at the ones truly responsables for global warming..
It's Romania and its outrageous internet speeds.

Just think, if every Romanian would use its grotesque  Grin and monstrous  Grin internet connection at full capacity just for one minute a month...
Let's see..
500Mbit/s > 60MB > 60 seconds, that's 3.6 GB a day.
You've said 0.0039kWh per 10 MB, so that's 1.4Khw a day, but there are 365 days and 20 million of you so that's 10 billion kWh/year or 20% of the power you produce in a year.

That's for one minute of full speed a day.
Time for a UN resolution limiting your speeds at some 10Mbits and tax you 50 euros a month.

Energy Expended


This one will soon need a new line, at current speeds we're doing at least 50,000,000,000 with best efficiency gear.

.
.BLACKJACK ♠ FUN.
█████████
██████████████
████████████
█████████████████
████████████████▄▄
░█████████████▀░▀▀
██████████████████
░██████████████
████████████████
░██████████████
████████████
███████████████░██
██████████
CRYPTO CASINO &
SPORTS BETTING
▄▄███████▄▄
▄███████████████▄
███████████████████
█████████████████████
███████████████████████
█████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
███████████████████████
█████████████████████
███████████████████
▀███████████████▀
█████████
.
slaman29
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2632
Merit: 1212


Livecasino, 20% cashback, no fuss payouts.


View Profile
September 16, 2020, 05:30:18 AM
 #11

Nice. I can think of additional power used that might not be in the calculations.

Every look up of the blockchain, every time a client is fired up, this must also at least take some power as it is all transferring data right? And the inefficiency of most devices or even the internet speed if we understand like in Asia where I am many are on old devices and slow internet. This must all account for more power being used:)

██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
... LIVECASINO.io    Play Live Games with up to 20% cashback!...██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
WHIZZ718
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 13
Merit: 0


View Profile
September 16, 2020, 07:34:50 AM
 #12

My full node at home used about 50 Watts.  By comparison to a centrally heated bank branch with several staff who drive to work, quite a big energy saving, and I don't have to go there to stand around in a queue.  The blockchain itself, although it does admitedly use far more energy that we would like it to, could be compared to the entire finance sector plus services plus outsourced services such as workplace anti-fraud and employee retention bonus.  It is centuries of overpaid loyal employees who created trustworthy conventional currency, so how much CO2 had those cost ?

The office light bulb in a major Wall Street finance institution is the wrong CO2e to compare to Bitcoin, and they might have paid some third world charlie to offset their carbon emissions from that light bulb.  The other CO2 caused by all things bought with all of the gross salaries plus bonuses plus construction plus other spending by those institutions all causes concrete to be bought, precious things for someone to be bought, all causing CO2e.  There is a big cost of loyal employees.

Using 2018 figures, as this years' are incomplete, US GDP was about 20.5 $TN (20.5 x10^12 US$).  US CO2 was about 5 GT (5 x10^9 Metric Tons; 16 Tons per capita per annum before imports).  So for every $4100 issued in the US, on average 1 Metric Ton (1000kg) of CO2 blows out in the USA (not counting other CO2 elsewhere needed to make components and imports). 

Now how does the CO2e of all the money creation by conventional $ finance in three decades compare to the CO2e of all the 21M Bitcoins which will ever be made ?  Are there other harms caused by creation of conventional $ ?
xhomerx10
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3822
Merit: 7962



View Profile
September 16, 2020, 11:32:46 AM
 #13

Working on it...
Transferring 10 MB of data uses about the amount of energy in a AA battery which is 0.0039 kWh

Eureka, I have found the culprits, now we can point the finger at the ones truly responsables for global warming..
It's Romania and its outrageous internet speeds.

Just think, if every Romanian would use its grotesque  Grin and monstrous  Grin internet connection at full capacity just for one minute a month...
Let's see..
500Mbit/s > 60MB > 60 seconds, that's 3.6 GB a day.
You've said 0.0039kWh per 10 MB, so that's 1.4Khw a day, but there are 365 days and 20 million of you so that's 10 billion kWh/year or 20% of the power you produce in a year.

That's for one minute of full speed a day.
Time for a UN resolution limiting your speeds at some 10Mbits and tax you 50 euros a month.

Energy Expended


This one will soon need a new line, at current speeds we're doing at least 50,000,000,000 with best efficiency gear.


 Ha ha!  Good one.
 Romania does have awesome internet speed but please don't send in the UN; there's too much bureaucracy already!
el kaka22
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3500
Merit: 1162


www.Crypto.Games: Multiple coins, multiple games


View Profile
September 16, 2020, 05:08:30 PM
 #14

People will try to find the most weak spots of bitcoin and try to hit it there, it will always be like that until end of universe because let's be honest with each other there is no way that financial sector will just come out and say "bitcoin is so awesome that banks are now useless".

They will keep buying it, invest on  it, even say good things about it but in the end they are not going to accept the fact that bitcoin is far superior than any other method of finance, fiat sucks and banks sucks even harder, they literally steal your money to grow bigger and bigger, for a bank to be successful you have to be poorer, that is literally the way they make money, their aim is to get all the money in the world.

This is why they will blame bitcoin with whatever they can, including wattage which makes ZERO sense when they spend soooo much more.

█████████████████████████
███████▄▄▀▀███▀▀▄▄███████
████████▄███▄████████
█████▄▄█▀▀███▀▀█▄▄█████
████▀▀██▀██████▀██▀▀████
████▄█████████████▄████
███████▀███████▀███████
████▀█████████████▀████
████▄▄██▄████▄██▄▄████
█████▀▀███▀▄████▀▀█████
████████▀███▀████████
███████▀▀▄▄███▄▄▀▀███████
█████████████████████████
.
 CRYPTOGAMES 
.
 Catch the winning spirit! 
█▄░▀███▌░▄
███▄░▀█░▐██▄
▀▀▀▀▀░░░▀▀▀▀▀
████▌░▐█████▀
████░░█████
███▌░▐███▀
███░░███
██▌░▐█▀
PROGRESSIVE
      JACKPOT      
██░░▄▄
▀▀░░████▄
▄▄▄▄██▀░░▄▄
░░░▀▀█░░▀██▄
███▄░░▀▄░█▀▀
█████░░█░░▄▄█
█████░░██████
█████░░█░░▀▀█
LOW HOUSE
         EDGE         
██▄
███░░░░░░░▄▄
█▀░░░░░░░████
█▄░░░░░░░░█▀
██▄░░░░░░▄█
███▄▄░░▄██▌
██████████
█████████▌
PREMIUM VIP
 MEMBERSHIP 
DICE   ROULETTE   BLACKJACK   KENO   MINESWEEPER   VIDEO POKER   PLINKO   SLOT   LOTTERY
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!