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Author Topic: Bitcoin Treasuries  (Read 2173 times)
fillippone (OP)
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October 09, 2020, 08:48:18 AM
Last edit: May 16, 2023, 01:17:55 AM by fillippone
Merited by The Sceptical Chymist (2), bitmover (2), Vispilio (2), acquafredda (2), Symmetrick (2), JayJuanGee (1), babo (1), Lucius (1), ingiltere (1), stompix (1), Coin-1 (1), DdmrDdmr (1), Paolo.Demidov (1), Coyster (1), Last of the V8s (1), FullNode (1)
 #1

I found on Reddit a nice website.

https://bitcointreasuries.org/


As I already was keeping track of companies staking Bitcoins, I decided to create my own version of this website, using Google Drive:

Bitcoin Treasuries (Link to Google Spreadsheet)





I opened several threads on the subject:


I will work to improve this spreadsheet, trying to monitor the trickle down effect kickstarted by Microstrategy decision.
Square was an obvious follower. Now I am really curious who’s going down the same path.


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October 09, 2020, 10:04:42 AM
Merited by fillippone (2), JayJuanGee (1)
 #2

I have said this in one or two of my previous posts that MISCONCEPTIONS, MISINTERPRETATION are part of the many bad teeth affecting Bitcoin adoption, so I am excited about your project in that direction.

I perceive/think many people are un-sure of financial technology, the difficulty to make 1$ or more are getting brain straining, nerve racking, bones gnashing so I understand their skepticism about the lights of the risk.

Project like this when read and see that big companies interest and using big money in Bitcoin/crypto-coin can give people courage about it all. Its an exciting project.
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October 09, 2020, 10:45:54 AM
Merited by fillippone (2)
 #3

I will work to improve this spreadsheet, trying to monitor the trickle down effect kickstarted by Microstrategy decision.
Square was an obvious follower. Now I am really curious who’s going down the same path.
I presume quite a few corporations are also going to make the same move, it's good for adoption as I'm quite sure other companies will be tracking the pros the decision taken by Microstrategy, square and Grayscale is having on their company before making a decision themselves to follow that path. And with the increase in MST stocks after investing in Bitcoin, it's a good signal for more btc investments by other companies. I'll prefer when Bitcoin is flashed and highlighted in the news for these, than scams that's most times the faults/follies of the victims, who don't take responsibility of their privacy and security.

Well done fillippone

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October 09, 2020, 11:24:30 AM
 #4

It’s nice to see everything in one place, but I see you haven’t added Grayscale to your spreadsheet unlike the website which you stated in the OP. Of course, it is clear to me that the Grayscale case is a fund, so we cannot consider it an investment in terms of what MicroStrategy has done.

And I’m definitely interested in who will be next on the list, but honestly I’m even more interested in who all of the big companies have invested in Bitcoin without making it public - I guess it’s possible to do that, or maybe I’m wrong considering we’ve seen that MicroStrategy first announced its decisions to the SEC?

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October 09, 2020, 11:41:01 AM
 #5

It’s nice to see everything in one place, but I see you haven’t added Grayscale to your spreadsheet unlike the website which you stated in the OP. Of course, it is clear to me that the Grayscale case is a fund, so we cannot consider it an investment in terms of what MicroStrategy has done.
<...>

Exactly, the precise reason why I choose to keep Grayscale and Square (the CashApp part) is that those BTC amounts are not exactly their money, rather those coins belong to clients. So they are only managing those coins on behalf of clients.

I hope you noticed I left those informations on the second sheet on the spreadsheet.

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October 09, 2020, 11:43:44 AM
Merited by fillippone (2)
 #6

Neat link, here's hoping that this list continues growing! I already see late-coiners moaning how it's unfair that all the big companies have bought into Bitcoin before them and now they're once again at an disadvantage.

Also I completely missed the news that Square now has Bitcoin holdings! Makes sense though, seeing how Jack Dorsey has been a Bitcoin bull for quite a while now. When Twitter? Wink

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October 09, 2020, 03:09:32 PM
 #7

These type of companies will get more and more common, there is no way that these will be the last. Not only there will be more companies investing into crypto which would be given and totally realistic, but also the companies that invested right now will get richer thanks to the investment to bitcoin and when they get richer their investors will get richer and when that happens there will be more investors who will put money in them because they succeeded and that means more money coming towards bitcoin as well.

That is just a fact, the companies who invest into stocks and other stuff so far will be able to invest into bitcoin and not worry about it, it was a volatile and "dangerous" asset so far but in the past 2 or so years people have seen how awesome it is to invest into it.

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October 09, 2020, 03:52:26 PM
Merited by Upgrade00 (1)
 #8

A very interesting tweet originated a thoughtful article by Messari:

Quote
$SQ rationale:
- instrument for economic empowerment
- global monetary system
- more ubiquitous currency in the future

$MSTR rationale
- dependable store of value
- attractive investment asset

Bitcoin's success is not predicated on serving a singular purpose
Quote
Today, @Square announced that it has purchased $50M in bitcoin. Square believes cryptocurrency is an instrument of economic empowerment and provides a way to participate in a global monetary system, which aligns with the company’s purpose. For more, visit http://squ.re/investors.
https://twitter.com/riabhutoria/status/1314198475626733569

In this article Messari’s Connor Dempsey stated that:

Quote

As Fidelity Digital Asset’s Ria Bhutoria pointed out, Square’s rationale for the move differed from that of MicroStrategy, as well as Paul Tudor Jones. Where each institutional predecessor was drawn to Bitcoin due to its potential to appreciate in value and its track record as a dependable store of value, Square’s motivations were more mission driven.

I think this is very true.
Bitcoin is a multi faceted investment. There is more than one investment thesis behind it.

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October 09, 2020, 04:13:32 PM
 #9

There was a thread recently about a company Diginex, which supposedly has something to do with bitcoin and just got listed on the NASDAQ.  They don't fit into the bitcoin-as-a-treasury-currency theme here, but I thought I'd mention it.

And yeah, I've been following MicroStrategy's stock price quite closely ever since they decided to buy up all that bitcoin--which I find to be an astounding thing for a public company to do.  But as I said in previous threads about MSTR, the shareholders don't seem to mind all that much, at least if you can infer that from the stock price.

Grayscale I've heard things about, but I'll have to check out the links provided in the OP about them and Square.  All in all, this is some pretty interesting stuff going on in the crazy world of bitcoin.


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October 09, 2020, 04:49:35 PM
 #10


there is no wallet address to check whether their holding is true?

i don't doubt if they have indeed invest to btc. while they announced how much they bought on otc, its going to be exciting to check in the website where their trails go.
or even which altcoins they have also invested. i'm sure its not just BTC that they are up to.

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October 09, 2020, 05:17:07 PM
 #11

[...] i'm sure its not just BTC that they are up to.

Some outliers may have holdings in alts that they are directly involved with, but I think it's doubtful we'll see significant altcoin treasuries anytime soon. Ethereum seems like a bad store of value for lack of a defined supply maximum and centralized currencies such as Ripple only introduce unwanted dependencies. Further down the list market cap size and volatility become an issue.

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October 09, 2020, 05:49:05 PM
 #12

I think the original website made a little bit of confusion between firms holding Bitcoin for clients (Grayscale) and bitcoin hodling bitcoins as a Treasury (Microstrategy, Sqaure app, limited to their Treasury part).
While the first are not putting their funds at risk, as those coins are ultimately their client's money, the latter have a directional risk in this venture.

This is why I am putting on two separate sheets.

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October 09, 2020, 06:50:24 PM
 #13

I believe the network effect will create tremendous growth for the Bitcoin price. Once a few big companies join the wave, the "herd" will feel obliged to follow the example.
After the companies guess who's joining the party?? - The nations.

Not financial advice, but .01 btc could soon be worth a house. Wink
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October 09, 2020, 06:55:08 PM
Merited by fillippone (2), JayJuanGee (1)
 #14

I found on Reddit a nice website.

https://bitcointreasuries.org/


As I already was keeping track of companies staking Bitcoins, I decided to create my own version of this website, using Google Drive:

Bitcoin Treasuries





I think this is interesting that you're tracking this.  One nit- "bitcoin investment" column is just taking the "today's value" divided by the "market capitalization" column, but the market capitalization is not a good indicator of the company's investable assets if that's the ratio you're trying to get at. What are you attempting to show in the last column?  Maybe the heading just needs to be updated to something more reflective of what you're tracking.

Also, Galaxy Digital's link shows holdings of 14,651 btc, not 16,651.  Is that a mistake or do you have a more updated number somewhere? It makes an $1100 in their average price cost basis.

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October 09, 2020, 07:08:06 PM
Merited by fillippone (2), JayJuanGee (1)
 #15

Nice work @fillipone, I was only aware of a few companies on your list as I started paying attention to institutional investment (or it started getting much attention) recently.
One point which is impressive from my view is how majority of those companies are up on their investment value, it's a moderate percentage increase and can be wiped off if the market goes downwards, but it seems like a good factor to attract other companies who are watching the moves made by these public firms and considering the idea of using Bitcoin as a reserve tool.

And yeah, I've been following MicroStrategy's stock price quite closely ever since they decided to buy up all that bitcoin--which I find to be an astounding thing for a public company to do.  But as I said in previous threads about MSTR, the shareholders don't seem to mind all that much, at least if you can infer that from the stock price.
Imo, the stock prices of a software company should not be much impacted by a switch in their reserve currency to Bitcoin. It's not a move that improved the fundamentals or directly affects their operation, so I was expecting the stock value to level down after the growth due to the hype about the adoption of a Bitcoin standard.

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October 09, 2020, 07:42:07 PM
 #16

And I’m definitely interested in who will be next on the list, but honestly I’m even more interested in who all of the big companies have invested in Bitcoin without making it public

I really really curious how many bitcoins Overstock or its startup tZero still have in their wallet, they have supposedly been in the game for years, and if we would go by the word of their CEO they should have kept a good chunk of the sales made in BTC in their vaults and not exchanged it.
Of course, they might have dumped more that they want to acknowledge, especially since the company is going through harder and harder times but they might still have something significant.

It would be nice to know how many coins do some of the companies that deal with bitcoins hold for themselves, like Coinbase or Binance or LocalBitcoins, probably those are outranking the ones on this list above. But we will probably never know unless they lose them all!

Also, lol:
https://bitcointreasuries.org/private-companies.html
Nice try from the owner but twitter sources, meh!

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October 09, 2020, 08:11:24 PM
 #17

<...>
Maybe the heading just needs to be updated to something more reflective of what you're tracking.


The column was meant to be exactly the percentage of the BTC investment over the market capitalisation.
The purpose was to tell how much the firm is a “bitcoin firm”.
If the firm put all his asset in bitcoin, then the bitcoin investment would be equal to his market capitalisation (like Grayscale, basically).


Also, Galaxy Digital's link shows holdings of 14,651 btc, not 16,651.  Is that a mistake or do you have a more updated number somewhere? It makes an $1100 in their average price cost basis.


I was lazy, and copied the bitcointreasury.org data in the spreadsheet. I noticed a few errors (HUT8 data are CAD, not USD), but I didn’t notice this one. Thanks for pointing out, I fixed it.

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October 10, 2020, 11:00:28 AM
 #18

The more I look at the website, the more I like the idea, the less I like the implementation.

The guys is doing several errors, on many levels:
  • He’s mixing companies putting value at risk investing in Bitcoin (Microstrategy, Square) with companies simply holding BTC on behalf of their clients (Grayscale, other ETP) and even miner with BTC inventories (HUT8)
  • He’s adding CAD and USD values like they were the same currency, which is of course an error
  • As pointed out by some sharp eyes, there are factual error is the links


This is why I am pledging to do an “improved” version of that website using my Google drive spreadsheet. Of course I will do a little bit of piggyback riding on the most tedious work, but I think the result will be more clear from a logical point of view.

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October 10, 2020, 01:14:35 PM
 #19

I think in the past year, a lot of bitcoins have been transferred to cold wallets without our knowledge. The figure above is just the tip we see. I firmly believe that this will be the preparatory step for the next bull run we will see in the future.
Bitcoin has been priced above $ 10,000 for over two months and I am optimistic about its growth.
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October 11, 2020, 03:44:37 AM
 #20


there is no wallet address to check whether their holding is true?

i don't doubt if they have indeed invest to btc. while they announced how much they bought on otc, its going to be exciting to check in the website where their trails go.
or even which altcoins they have also invested. i'm sure its not just BTC that they are up to.

I checked OP's link and there is no address, I can second this problem because people will be suspicious if there was no funds. It is easier to announce that their staking in cryptocurrency. On the other hand, I can understand the companies need to make their addresses private, I mean that is a lot of money and we all know that there have been attacks.

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