Princess Latifa's capture and disappearance, and it's bigger implications.

[DireWolfM14]

File in the "Life is stranger than fiction" directory.  

Recently the BBC's Panorama documentary series broadcast the story of Latifa bint Mohammed Al Maktoum.  She's the daughter of Shaik Mohammed Al Maktoum, the ruling monarch of Dubai, an emirate of the UAE.  The documentary is about Latifa's attempted escape from Dubai, where she felt constrained by her father, family, and traditional treatment of women in the UAE.  Latifa attempted to escape in 2018, but the attempt failed when she was captured by Indian Special Forces on a yacht in the in Indian Ocean.  Her pleas to the Indian authorities for asylum were ignored.

Here's a link to the BBC's documentary:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000sspm/panorama-the-missing-princess

Today, the Daily Mail issued a report that asserts there was a deal made between the Dubai monarchy and the Indian authorities.  Previous to the capture of Latifa, India had apparently requested the extradition of British arms dealer Christian Michel, who had been living in Dubai. Dubai had declined these request previously.  However, two weeks after Latifa's disappearance (capture) in the Indian Ocean, Christian Michel was secretly extradited to India.

Daily Mail article:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9303341/Dubais-Princess-Latifa-returned-swap-British-arms-dealer.html

Up until now there has been surprisingly little coverage of this story despite it's salacious nature and barbarity; Latifa has been imprisoned by her father for three years, and now it's not known if she's alive.  World leaders seem to be looking the other way when topics of this sort were exposed, and the main-stream media hasn't been pressing on the issue either.  

In another surprisingly late move the Saudi Prince and presumptive heir to the Saudi throne, has now been implicated by U.S. intelligence in the death of journalist Jamal Khashoggi.  Why now?  Anyone who was paying attention knew the prince had to be involved, no one would have imagined such a thing happening without his knowledge.

The leaders of Saudi, the UAE, and others, have been doing these kinds of things for decades.  They are thugs, racketeers, and murders, but now it looks like the world is finally waking up.  What's changed?  Why are these stories being brought to light now, even though they are both three years old?

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[PrimeNumber7]

The Saudi and UAE governments have the consent of their people, even though they are not democracies. Their people, by and large, are not oppressed by most standards, although they don't have the same freedoms as citizens in the US do. Both countries also have vast natural resources that are needed by the rest of the world.

The above means that it will be very difficult to overthrow either government because any new government installed would be viewed by their respective people as illegitimate.

[suchmoon]

Their people, by and large, are not oppressed by most standards

Only if you don't count women as people.

[PrimeNumber7]

Their people, by and large, are not oppressed by most standards

Only if you don't count women as people.

Women have fewer rights in these countries, and they are something closer to being oppressed by Western standards, however, the government still has the consent of the governed, even from the women.

[suchmoon]

the government still has the consent of the governed, even from the women.

Right, because if they didn't they would have elected a new king or emir. 

I'm sure Kim has like 99.99% consent of norks too.

[DireWolfM14]

The Saudi and UAE governments have the consent of HALF their people, even though they are not democracies. HALF Their people, by and large, are not oppressed by most standards, although they don't have the same freedoms as citizens in the US do.

FIFY, but that's not exactly what I'm debating here.  That debate has only one outcome; a troll-fest of "flatearther" proportions.

Both countries also have vast natural resources that are needed by the rest of the world.

The above means that it will be very difficult to overthrow either government because any new government installed would be viewed by their respective people as illegitimate.

This more inline with the debate I was fishing for:  I'm not proposing overthrowing anyone, and I'm not advocating for war, quite the opposite.  I'm wondering why these three-year-old atrocities are being dusted off and pranced around. 

[suchmoon]

a troll-fest of "flatearther" proportions.

Buzzkill.

This more inline with the debate I was fishing for:  I'm not proposing overthrowing anyone, and I'm not advocating for war, quite the opposite.  I'm wondering why these three-year-old atrocities are being dusted off and pranced around.  

Wasn't there Latifa's video that was leaked recently? I wasn't following the news but I thought that was the trigger for the latest Latifa news.

As for Khashoggi, the report was prepared long ago and just recently declassified by the new US administration. It shouldn't have been classified to begin with, but I doubt that Biden is itching to start a war with the Saudis... maybe squeeze them a bit with some angle on Iran or Yemen, not sure.

[PrimeNumber7]

The Saudi and UAE governments have the consent of HALF their people, even though they are not democracies. HALF Their people, by and large, are not oppressed by most standards, although they don't have the same freedoms as citizens in the US do.

FIFY, but that's not exactly what I'm debating here.  That debate has only one outcome; a troll-fest of "flatearther" proportions.

I should be clear that I believe that women in middle eastern countries should have more rights. With that being said, these countries have different cultural norms than the West. I would point to the number of asylum claims from women who are from the UAE and Saudi Arabia as to how women in these countries view themselves.

Both countries also have vast natural resources that are needed by the rest of the world.

The above means that it will be very difficult to overthrow either government because any new government installed would be viewed by their respective people as illegitimate.

This more inline with the debate I was fishing for:  I'm not proposing overthrowing anyone, and I'm not advocating for war, quite the opposite.  I'm wondering why these three-year-old atrocities are being dusted off and pranced around. 

What do you propose to happen to these countries? These countries are not democracies, so public pressure will not have much effect, as there are no elections that might result in changes. Sanctions are an act of War, and could result in net harm if they decline to sell their oil to the rest of the world.

[Kittygalore]

Only if you don't count women as people.

AFAIK women are an object in most Arab nations and you forgot to mention the LGBT community and the men there without beards. I don't get it, back in Medieval Era, Middle East is flourishing in terms of Mathematics and Sciences but now they are slowly regressing back to the old ways where religion is the principal font of knowledge and anything that refutes it is subject to blasphemy and apostasy.

[DireWolfM14]

What do you propose to happen to these countries? These countries are not democracies, so public pressure will not have much effect, as there are no elections that might result in changes. Sanctions are an act of War, and could result in net harm if they decline to sell their oil to the rest of the world.

I haven't proposed anything, I was just asking questions.  But since you bring it up, sanctions are used against countries that violate the rights of their citizens all the time, so why not the oil-rich countries of the middle east?  Do we selectively sanction abusive regimes based on whether they have commodities we want? 

[coolcoinz]

Wasn't there Latifa's video that was leaked recently? I wasn't following the news but I thought that was the trigger for the latest Latifa news.

As for Khashoggi, the report was prepared long ago and just recently declassified by the new US administration. It shouldn't have been classified to begin with, but I doubt that Biden is itching to start a war with the Saudis... maybe squeeze them a bit with some angle on Iran or Yemen, not sure.

Yes it was.

I remember watching her last video before her attempted getaway and she said that if she's captured for the second time, she's going to get killed. When she was caught for the first time they kept her in the basement and force fed her. Her father's bodyguards were threatening her that if she tries to escape again she's not going to leave that basement alive. There's a new video posted by her last week where she claims that her room was turned into a prison with bars in windows and she can't go anywhere, so at least she wasn't killed.
Her father is a total psycho. For those who didn't know, here's a few facts from his family life:
In 2019 he divorced his wife under Sharia law, without asking for her opinion or even informing her about the proceedings.
His wife took their children and moved to London where he was harassed and threatened by her ex's goons. He demanded she returned children to him but she refused and won the court case against him.
His other daughter Shamsa escaped to the UK in 2000 and was abducted, brought back on a private jet and most likely imprisoned. She hasn't been seen for the last 20 years.

[PrimeNumber7]

What do you propose to happen to these countries? These countries are not democracies, so public pressure will not have much effect, as there are no elections that might result in changes. Sanctions are an act of War, and could result in net harm if they decline to sell their oil to the rest of the world.

I haven't proposed anything, I was just asking questions.  But since you bring it up, sanctions are used against countries that violate the rights of their citizens all the time, so why not the oil-rich countries of the middle east?  Do we selectively sanction abusive regimes based on whether they have commodities we want? 

Like I said, sanctions are an act of War. Sanctions could lead to oil being unavailable to the West.

Sanctions are also a means to get the citizens of a country to try to affect change in their government. The governments of the UAE and the Saudis have money to insulate themselves for longer than the West could survive without their oil.

[Cnut237]

Do we selectively sanction abusive regimes based on whether they have commodities we want?  

Yes, that's how it works. Some we sanction, some we regard as trusted friends, some we sell weapons to.

And as shocking as their treatment of women is, that's not even the main issue in the UAE... 88% of the 'population' consists of migrant labourers who are effectively slaves. Look at this report from the International Campaign For Freedom in the UAE.

[DireWolfM14]

I should be clear that I believe that women in middle eastern countries should have more rights. With that being said, these countries have different cultural norms than the West.

Just a slight correction; I wouldn't say that applies to all middle eastern countries.  Jordan, for example allows women all the rights of men.  Women not only get to drive, but they can vote, and hold office.  Jordan isn't alone, but they are the most democratic of the middle eastern monarchies.

That doesn't mean they've abandoned their family traditions, or religious culture.

I would point to the number of asylum claims from women who are from the UAE and Saudi Arabia as to how women in these countries view themselves.

I take it you're implying there aren't many?  That may be true, but for a variety of reasons there weren't many slaves that attempted to escape from cotton plantations either.

Yes, that's how it works. Some we sanction, some we regard as trusted friends, some we sell weapons to.

And as shocking as their treatment of women is, that's not even the main issue in the UAE... 88% of the 'population' consists of migrant labourers who are effectively slaves. Look at this report from the International Campaign For Freedom in the UAE.

One thing that's rarely brought up about the makeup UAE citizens; they are almost always family of the Emir, and they are almost always wealthy business men, land owners, oil barons, or the henchmen of the afore mentioned.  So, no, you won't find them risking their lives in the oil fields.  That's why Allah surrounded them with dirty Syrians, Iraqis, and Egyptians who've been displaced by wars they exasperated.

[Toplistico.com]

Women have fewer rights in these countries

It's all because of their religion. Their religion states that the rank of women is lower than that of men.