I don’t know anything about the SBR process. How long does it usually take, in cases whereby there is a significant monetary dispute and potentially complex evidence? I would presume that the same evidence applies in cases that are alleged to be about the same person, disposition of which should be merged because (AFAIK) the outcome substantively hinges on the allegation of multi-accounting:
We have just submitted our 6 page, 2100 word report with 27 screenshots to the mediator. They have many cases to rule on and this one has an enormous amount of information, so we ask for your patience while this is resolved. It is also possible they will need some additional information from either us or the OP prior to making a ruling. We will update the community with the results. Thank you.
With what seems to be a total of approximately 1.5 BTC on the line, the evidence in this case must be reviewed carefully. It may be technically complex. If required, the mediator should seek an expert opinion in the manner of a courtroom
expert witness.
That being said, the case should be disposed as promptly as practicable.
To the attention of anybody with access to the evidence (Betcoin.AG security department, and the SBR mediator):Again, i used betcoin.ag website without any VPN usually from my mobile always in Montenegro.
I am a citizen of Montenegro, i used the betcoin.ag site from Montenegro, on a mobile phone (mostly, not sure if i ever logged in from pc) WITHOUT any VPN.
If
(if) this user was really multi-accounting, then I would examine the evidence to see if he was using one of the specialized VPNs that give a mobile phone IP address. One of the best mobile-IP VPNs in the industry also fakes the TCP fingerprint, to make the traffic look like it originates from a mobile phone TCP/IP stack; but I do not think that they offer IP addresses in Montenegro
(not sure about that, off the top of my head).
(No, I will not provide links or further details here.)These are professional-grade services, and very expensive; however, there are consumer-oriented sites that resell them for as low as $50/month (maybe lower; I have seen $50/month). The consumer-oriented resellers are heavily promoted on forums that specifically help cheaters to run
multi-account SCAMS on eBay, Amazon,
et al., and even to multi-account on Paypal. If you ever wonder why it seems that fly-by-nights can dump so much garbage on those major sites, this is a big part of it.
(No, I will not provide links or further details here!)These specialized VPNs do have legitimate professional uses. It is a shame that some people abuse them. Anyway, only a security expert could get away with it in the long run.
If you make even one little mistake, then sophisticated security systems can still detect that you are multi-accounting behind a VPN!
I don't understand why this case is going prolonging if the solution would be you do KYC and Jimin Jibao also do KYC and with that the problem would be solved. betcoin.AG do KYC for these two people [...] The solution would be to make KYC
As a
privacy activist,
I object to the suggestion that a no-KYC site should shotgun-KYC users accused of multi-accounting.I respect Betcoin.AG’s respect for users’ privacy. If they were suddenly to demand KYC dox, I would check their TOS very carefully to see if users even had any notice that that could happen.
Because I flatly
refuse in principle ever to do KYC for cryptocurrency transactions of any kind, I strongly
distrust sites that shotgun-KYC their users while holding user funds hostage. Shotgun KYC is a common scam, especially on some exchanges that are notorious for selective scamming.
I do not want to make the case more difficult to resolve; but I must point out that if Betcoin.AG gave its users a reasonable expectation of no KYC, it is
unreasonable to suggest that they should resolve a dispute by sudden doxing.
Like most Bitcoin sites, since we do not require KYC, [...]
For the record:I’ve never submitted to any “KYC” identity-rape doxing for anything whatsoever even remotely related to Bitcoin. On principle, I never will. Why the hell would I? In principle, my finances are private—mine, and mine alone.
I also observe that KYC would not even resolve the dispute. From the other thread:
We spend many Bitcoin each year on fraud prevention technology and every time the abusers discover what we have, they come up with new ways around them. As mentioned earlier in this thread, we have banned approximately 500 abusive accounts this year. Through cooperation with some of these accounts, we have gained access to several Discord and Telegram groups with thousands of members, which specifically teach players how to cheat sites, including different methods of exploitation, how to make your region undetectable and how to fake your KYC documents. We learn a lot from these cheats, and just like them, we adapt our security as well.
Can you tell us from which country you are and from which countries you used the VPN? And what did they say exactly about your breaching the Terms?
They indicated on their terms, that Montenegro is not prohibited, so they can not give this as reason.
OP is alleged to be the alt account of a person from a banned region
and otherwise cheating the site, in violation of TOS.
There is no need for me to rehash this, so I will simply quote what I said in the other thread:
There is nothing in the world they can show that can prove that the two accounts in question belong to me.
I don’t know if you are guilty or not. I know that if you are, your VPN was not protecting you as you thought it was (LOL).
Based on my own security expertise,
I would not assume that they can have no evidence.
Yes, I am confident that I myself could avoid any multi-account detection. No, I will not tell the fine folks here how to do it. If you try, you will probably get screwed—tough luck.If you are innocent, then I expect that Betcoin.AG will probably fall flat on their faces at mediation; and they have already promised to return your remaining deposits if the mediator says to, so...
[...]
If you are innocent, I wish you good luck and a fair mediation so that you can get your money back. But if you are guilty, rot in hell! I don’t like cheaters. I am quite serious about this:
A message to cheaters:
It is easy to get away with malicious and abusive behaviour on naïve sites. —Not easy on sites that are serious about catching you.
I know of open-source code that can do at least some part of what Betcoin.AG claims their security system can do. It’s not a drop-in solution; it may require expensive consultant work to integrate into a site. I am also aware that there exist proprietary commercial systems that can catch you red-handed, if you try to multi-account from a banned region from behind a VPN. These are the same types of systems also used by banks, large cryptocurrency exchanges, and other financial institutions; the systems are expensive, and (unfortunately, in my opinion) quite commonplace in the industry. On non-gambling sites, you are being invisibly checked by such systems every day.
I am not saying that that’s what happened here. I am saying that it is a major issue that the mediator should inquire about. If my inferences are incorrect, then the outcome may or may not be unfavourable to Betcoin.AG, depending on the total weight of all the other evidence.
Moreover, I am warning cheaters that you will get caught—sometime, sooner or later, at some site—and it will hurt! Evading detection requires serious skills. People with serious skills usually apply them to activities more productive than multi-account abuse on gambling sites.
I wish to all parties a fair mediation, with results correct as to the facts and wise in the principles of justice.
Disclosure: As I said on the other thread, I have no financial interest in this case. I have no affiliation whatsoever with any of the parties to the case. I also have no prior knowledge of Betcoin.AG; I neither trust nor distrust them. I think that I am about as close as possible to being a perfectly neutral observer of this case.
I stumbled into the other thread by happenstance; and the case has kept my attention, in large part because I
do have sufficient technical expertise to have
read between the lines of Betcoin.AG’s posts. I am generally interested in these fraud prevention systems, IP address cat-and-mouse games, etc. My view of these technologies is from both directions: For honest privacy purposes, I myself study how to avoid all detection—but I nonetheless enjoy it when a cheater gets nailed.
