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Author Topic: Mineral Oil cooled rigs....  (Read 5181 times)
Atheros
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November 29, 2011, 09:27:36 AM
 #21

D&T get off your high horse cause you dont know what i know.
See D&T, we just don't know what he knows.  Grin

Re-read what he said again, he wanted to run water to the pool as a reservoir and back to the AC. The AC use liquid gas not water. Why would he want an AC if what he said is a liquid cooling setup? hence does he know how AC works?
No, when I was talking about AC, I was talking about dumping the heat to the pool instead of the air, similar to Geothermal which is why he brought it up. The water would not replace the pseudo-freon. The outside radiator on the AC unit would be replaced with a heat exchanger (just like with geothermal).

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Gerald Davis


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November 29, 2011, 01:40:25 PM
 #22

Re-read what he said again, he wanted to run water to the pool as a reservoir and back to the AC. The AC use liquid gas not water. Why would he want an AC if what he said is a liquid cooling setup? hence does he know how AC works?

The outside of the AC unit is merely a set of compressor coils there isn't anything that limits it to dumping heat into air.  The coils get hot and that heat flows into air (aided by a fan).  No reason the hotside can't be cooled w/ pool water.  Air is commonly used because it is  the cheapest (and least efficient) place to dump heat.  If a heat exchanger carrying pool water flowed past the hotside of AC unit then the water would get warmer and the AC unit cooler.

Heat inside house -> Working Fluid -> Compressor Coils -> outside air (driven by fan)


vs

Heat inside house -> Working fluid -> Compressor Coils -> heat exchanger -> Pool Loop (driven by pump)



Still confused?  Well I don't care enough to help you further.  I just found it ironic that you questioned if someone know how an AC unit works when your question indicated a lack of knowledge in yourself.  You then cemented that perception by responding.  Grin

On edit: Looks like some college student wrote a thesis on using waste heat from AC unit to warm pool water:
http://minds.wisconsin.edu/handle/1793/7674

Quote
PS. btw as the matter of fact, I did use geothermal heat pump. In 2002, after couple years of building liquid cooling system, i got sick of using heatercore (rads werent available for PC yet here), i dug up my ground and buried 100 ft of copper tubing. I used Iwaki pump to push all the liquid thro it. It was more of an experiment. My PC desk has to be by the entrance cause i couldnt route the tubing indoors.
Nice experiment but that isn't a heat pump maybe that is why you are confused?
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November 29, 2011, 04:34:52 PM
 #23

To outside ground water? Are we living in the same planet ?
Last time i checked the heat was pumped out by air.

Google geothermal heat pump and educate yourself.

Second even in a air source heat pump (AC unit is simply a uni-directional heat pump) the heat isn't pumped out BY AIR.  The heat is transfered via a working fluid.  It use to be freon and now is the enviro friendly stuff.

so heat inside ------> working fluid -----> coils outside.  

In ground source heat pump the heat is pumped INTO ground (either ground water or closed water loop underground)
In air source heat pump the heat is pumped INTO the air.

There is little difference between a ground source heat pump (aka geothermal heat pump) or an air sourced heat pump.  The only thing that changes is where you "dump" the heat.  Given the ground stays cool all year round it is more efficient to dump heat there in the summer and pull heat from there in the winter.

Maybe you didn't know but in an AC unit the air inside the house stays inside and the air outside the house stays outside.  There is no movement of air.

D&T get off your high horse cause you dont know what i know.

At first the other poster talks about AC and you brought up geothermal? As if its already available for us to buy. Hence i asked if you lived on the same planet. You didnt get the hint and still thought you're educating me ?

Re-read what he said again, he wanted to run water to the pool as a reservoir and back to the AC. The AC use liquid gas not water. Why would he want an AC if what he said is a liquid cooling setup? hence does he know how AC works?

I built a rack (server rack) using chilled liquid cooling. My controller is a simple Arduino board that connects to sensors to read dewpoint and auto adjust the compressor to have no condensation at the heat block. I guess i dont know how AC works at all eh?

PS. btw as the matter of fact, I did use geothermal heat pump. In 2002, after couple years of building liquid cooling system, i got sick of using heatercore (rads werent available for PC yet here), i dug up my ground and buried 100 ft of copper tubing. I used Iwaki pump to push all the liquid thro it. It was more of an experiment. My PC desk has to be by the entrance cause i couldnt route the tubing indoors.
You're making yourself look stupid.

You're talking about a non-heatpump underground source of cooling.  The other posters are talking about a heatpump whose hotside radiator is modified to be cooled with pool water.
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November 29, 2011, 05:00:54 PM
 #24

Re-read what he said again, he wanted to run water to the pool as a reservoir and back to the AC. The AC use liquid gas not water. Why would he want an AC if what he said is a liquid cooling setup? hence does he know how AC works?

The outside of the AC unit is merely a set of compressor coils there isn't anything that limits it to dumping heat into air.  The coils get hot and that heat flows into air (aided by a fan).  No reason the hotside can't be cooled w/ pool water.  Air is commonly used because it is  the cheapest (and least efficient) place to dump heat.  If a heat exchanger carrying pool water flowed past the hotside of AC unit then the water would get warmer and the AC unit cooler.

Heat inside house -> Working Fluid -> Compressor Coils -> outside air (driven by fan)


vs

Heat inside house -> Working fluid -> Compressor Coils -> heat exchanger -> Pool Loop (driven by pump)



Still confused?  Well I don't care enough to help you further.  I just found it ironic that you questioned if someone know how an AC unit works when your question indicated a lack of knowledge in yourself.  You then cemented that perception by responding.  Grin

On edit: Looks like some college student wrote a thesis on using waste heat from AC unit to warm pool water:
http://minds.wisconsin.edu/handle/1793/7674

Quote
PS. btw as the matter of fact, I did use geothermal heat pump. In 2002, after couple years of building liquid cooling system, i got sick of using heatercore (rads werent available for PC yet here), i dug up my ground and buried 100 ft of copper tubing. I used Iwaki pump to push all the liquid thro it. It was more of an experiment. My PC desk has to be by the entrance cause i couldnt route the tubing indoors.
Nice experiment but that isn't a heat pump maybe that is why you are confused?

LOL

First, please stop calling condenser .... a compressor coil. Thats confusing as hell and certainly makes you look....

Second, if you're talking about cooling the condenser by using water which then dump heat into the pool then thats essentially what i did in my experience, except the heatsource is the condenser not my computer.

Third, the dumb poster didnt even think doing this is the most INefficient because you're producing the middleman from liquid to air. Why use AC to cool the room air temp? Who's the dumb ass now?

Either you drop AC all together and use geothermal to cool the heatsource directly (your mining farm) thro or use AC to chill your liquid which carries heat from the heatsource.

Yes, the poster doesnt know crap right from the moment he asked if using pool and radiator in his "mineral oil cooling"
If I lived near a lake or had a pond in my back yard, I would totally pump water through a heat exchanger connected to a conventional water cooling system. One could build walls of systems that are silent and leave very little heat in the room.

Way to think genius !!

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November 29, 2011, 05:03:59 PM
 #25

D&T get off your high horse cause you dont know what i know.
See D&T, we just don't know what he knows.  Grin

Re-read what he said again, he wanted to run water to the pool as a reservoir and back to the AC. The AC use liquid gas not water. Why would he want an AC if what he said is a liquid cooling setup? hence does he know how AC works?
No, when I was talking about AC, I was talking about dumping the heat to the pool instead of the air, similar to Geothermal which is why he brought it up. The water would not replace the pseudo-freon. The outside radiator on the AC unit would be replaced with a heat exchanger (just like with geothermal).

Dont try to make like you know what you're talking about. You're thinking of having the condenser in a pool.

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November 29, 2011, 05:05:44 PM
 #26

To outside ground water? Are we living in the same planet ?
Last time i checked the heat was pumped out by air.

Google geothermal heat pump and educate yourself.

Second even in a air source heat pump (AC unit is simply a uni-directional heat pump) the heat isn't pumped out BY AIR.  The heat is transfered via a working fluid.  It use to be freon and now is the enviro friendly stuff.

so heat inside ------> working fluid -----> coils outside.  

In ground source heat pump the heat is pumped INTO ground (either ground water or closed water loop underground)
In air source heat pump the heat is pumped INTO the air.

There is little difference between a ground source heat pump (aka geothermal heat pump) or an air sourced heat pump.  The only thing that changes is where you "dump" the heat.  Given the ground stays cool all year round it is more efficient to dump heat there in the summer and pull heat from there in the winter.

Maybe you didn't know but in an AC unit the air inside the house stays inside and the air outside the house stays outside.  There is no movement of air.

D&T get off your high horse cause you dont know what i know.

At first the other poster talks about AC and you brought up geothermal? As if its already available for us to buy. Hence i asked if you lived on the same planet. You didnt get the hint and still thought you're educating me ?

Re-read what he said again, he wanted to run water to the pool as a reservoir and back to the AC. The AC use liquid gas not water. Why would he want an AC if what he said is a liquid cooling setup? hence does he know how AC works?

I built a rack (server rack) using chilled liquid cooling. My controller is a simple Arduino board that connects to sensors to read dewpoint and auto adjust the compressor to have no condensation at the heat block. I guess i dont know how AC works at all eh?

PS. btw as the matter of fact, I did use geothermal heat pump. In 2002, after couple years of building liquid cooling system, i got sick of using heatercore (rads werent available for PC yet here), i dug up my ground and buried 100 ft of copper tubing. I used Iwaki pump to push all the liquid thro it. It was more of an experiment. My PC desk has to be by the entrance cause i couldnt route the tubing indoors.
You're making yourself look stupid.

You're talking about a non-heatpump underground source of cooling.  The other posters are talking about a heatpump whose hotside radiator is modified to be cooled with pool water.

Yes and thats a good idea..... to dumb asses

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Gerald Davis


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November 29, 2011, 05:13:51 PM
 #27

Re-read what he said again, he wanted to run water to the pool as a reservoir and back to the AC. The AC use liquid gas not water. Why would he want an AC if what he said is a liquid cooling setup? hence does he know how AC works?

The outside of the AC unit is merely a set of compressor coils there isn't anything that limits it to dumping heat into air.  The coils get hot and that heat flows into air (aided by a fan).  No reason the hotside can't be cooled w/ pool water.  Air is commonly used because it is  the cheapest (and least efficient) place to dump heat.  If a heat exchanger carrying pool water flowed past the hotside of AC unit then the water would get warmer and the AC unit cooler.

Heat inside house -> Working Fluid -> Compressor Coils -> outside air (driven by fan)


vs

Heat inside house -> Working fluid -> Compressor Coils -> heat exchanger -> Pool Loop (driven by pump)



Still confused?  Well I don't care enough to help you further.  I just found it ironic that you questioned if someone know how an AC unit works when your question indicated a lack of knowledge in yourself.  You then cemented that perception by responding.  Grin

On edit: Looks like some college student wrote a thesis on using waste heat from AC unit to warm pool water:
Quote
Second, if you're talking about cooling the condenser by using water which then dump heat into the pool then thats essentially what i did in my experience, except the heatsource is the condenser not my computer.

No it isn't.  The post was about an AC unit in general.  An AC is a very effective method of collecting heat to be transfered (either to outside air or outside water).  In other words it could be used by anyone who has an AC not just someone w/ a mining rig.

Quote
Yes, the poster doesnt know crap right from the moment he asked if using pool and radiator in his "mineral oil cooling"
If I lived near a lake or had a pond in my back yard, I would totally pump water through a heat exchanger connected to a conventional water cooling system. One could build walls of systems that are silent and leave very little heat in the room.

Way to think genius !!

What is wrong with that.  First of all that was an unrelated post to the topic of AC units.  Using a heat exchanger is smart in an instance like that because the GPU loop can be kept separate from the pool loop (which contains impurities).  Granted I see no advantage of using mineral oil but with a heat exchanger it doesn't matter what is in each loop.



Two sealed loops.  Only the heat can flow from one loop to the other.

Looks like a university computer lab did that some years ago (and yes they properly used a heat exchanger between the two loops):
http://hackedgadgets.com/2007/01/07/water-cooling-computers-with-a-swimming-pool/

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November 29, 2011, 05:25:40 PM
 #28

Re-read what he said again, he wanted to run water to the pool as a reservoir and back to the AC. The AC use liquid gas not water. Why would he want an AC if what he said is a liquid cooling setup? hence does he know how AC works?

The outside of the AC unit is merely a set of compressor coils there isn't anything that limits it to dumping heat into air.  The coils get hot and that heat flows into air (aided by a fan).  No reason the hotside can't be cooled w/ pool water.  Air is commonly used because it is  the cheapest (and least efficient) place to dump heat.  If a heat exchanger carrying pool water flowed past the hotside of AC unit then the water would get warmer and the AC unit cooler.

Heat inside house -> Working Fluid -> Compressor Coils -> outside air (driven by fan)


vs

Heat inside house -> Working fluid -> Compressor Coils -> heat exchanger -> Pool Loop (driven by pump)



Still confused?  Well I don't care enough to help you further.  I just found it ironic that you questioned if someone know how an AC unit works when your question indicated a lack of knowledge in yourself.  You then cemented that perception by responding.  Grin

On edit: Looks like some college student wrote a thesis on using waste heat from AC unit to warm pool water:
Quote
Second, if you're talking about cooling the condenser by using water which then dump heat into the pool then thats essentially what i did in my experience, except the heatsource is the condenser not my computer.

No it isn't.  The post was about an AC unit in general.  An AC is a very effective method of collecting heat to be transfered (either to outside air or outside water).  In other words it could be used by anyone who has an AC not just someone w/ a mining rig.

Quote
Yes, the poster doesnt know crap right from the moment he asked if using pool and radiator in his "mineral oil cooling"
If I lived near a lake or had a pond in my back yard, I would totally pump water through a heat exchanger connected to a conventional water cooling system. One could build walls of systems that are silent and leave very little heat in the room.

Way to think genius !!

What is wrong with that.  First of all that was an unrelated post to the topic of AC units.  Using a heat exchanger is smart in an instance like that because the GPU loop can be kept separate from the pool loop (which contains impurities).  Granted I see no advantage of using mineral oil but with a heat exchanger it doesn't matter what is in each loop.

http://www.frozencpu.com/images/products/large/ex-rad-170.jpg

Two sealed loops.  Only the heat can flow from one loop to the other.

Looks like a university computer lab did that some years ago (and yes they properly used a heat exchanger between the two loops):
http://hackedgadgets.com/2007/01/07/water-cooling-computers-with-a-swimming-pool/



Using mineral oil as a mean to carry heat is genius i see... It got nothing to do with using 2 loop to exchange heat of each other. Heck I used water to cool the TEC that cooled another waterloop. Water is alot more efficient to carry heat. This poster just threw out ideas like a genius.

The idea of having AC (phase-change) to be cooled by geothermal was to cool the mining rigs, not the room. If you want to have one to cool your room, be my guest. Its stupid to put phasechange in the middle. And yet you started out as David Suzuki.


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November 29, 2011, 05:50:28 PM
 #29

Holy. Crap. People.

If you wish to quote someone, please quote only the additions in the previous post, or just the piece you're rebutting against or commenting on.  There is no need to quote a giant wall of text to respond to a single point.  My finger tires of scrolling.

Also, watch your end-quote tag, your responses are getting lost in the grey.

Finally, please read carefully before posting angry flame-ups - 80% of this thread is arguing across what appears to be a language barrier.  As far as I can tell you're all talking about the same things, but referring to them differently.

plastic.elastic, please chill the fuck out.  Don't invite the nonsense arguments and then turn to calling everyone idiots, and learn to accept some criticism once in a while for god's sake.

Team Epic!

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November 29, 2011, 05:52:33 PM
 #30

Holy. Crap. People.

If you wish to quote someone, please quote only the additions in the previous post, or just the piece you're rebutting against or commenting on.  There is no need to quote a giant wall of text to respond to a single point.  My finger tires of scrolling.

Also, watch your end-quote tag, your responses are getting lost in the grey.

Finally, please read carefully before posting angry flame-ups - 80% of this thread is arguing across what appears to be a language barrier.  As far as I can tell you're all talking about the same things, but referring to them differently.

plastic.elastic, please chill the fuck out.  Don't invite the nonsense arguments and then turn to calling everyone idiots, and learn to accept some criticism once in a while for god's sake.

Its not criticism,

He thinks hes educating me with crap.

God has nothing to do with technology.

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November 29, 2011, 06:04:52 PM
 #31

.. Don't invite the nonsense arguments and then turn to calling everyone idiots ..

God has nothing to do with technology.

Case in point.  What you just did there was respond to a colloquialism.  You're either inviting someone to think/call you a fool, or again this is a language barrier.

Re-reading the thread, I can't even tell what point you're trying to argue.  D&T isn't trying to educate you with crap, this is a public forum.  He's adding knowledge to a public place for everyone to read and take what they will.  Me?  I am pointedly criticizing you, for doing the exact opposite.

If you believe a point incorrect, return the favor and rebut with logic and knowledge, not sarcasm and disparagement.

Team Epic!

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November 29, 2011, 06:09:05 PM
 #32

.. Don't invite the nonsense arguments and then turn to calling everyone idiots ..

God has nothing to do with technology.

Case in point.  What you just did there was respond to a colloquialism.  You're either inviting someone to think/call you a fool, or again this is a language barrier.

Re-reading the thread, I can't even tell what point you're trying to argue.  D&T isn't trying to educate you with crap, this is a public forum.  He's adding knowledge to a public place for everyone to read and take what they will.  Me?  I am pointedly criticizing you, for doing the exact opposite.

If you believe a point incorrect, return the favor and rebut with logic and knowledge, not sarcasm and disparagement.


My post is full sense of humor.

D&T isnt acknowledging anyone. His post is directed at me then pointing out the obvious like i need those crap. Hes not making point when he cant get my point. If you dont get what i'm saying, re read his post. Dont bother to reply otherwise.



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November 29, 2011, 08:02:11 PM
 #33

.. Don't invite the nonsense arguments and then turn to calling everyone idiots ..

God has nothing to do with technology.

Case in point.  What you just did there was respond to a colloquialism.  You're either inviting someone to think/call you a fool, or again this is a language barrier.

Re-reading the thread, I can't even tell what point you're trying to argue.  D&T isn't trying to educate you with crap, this is a public forum.  He's adding knowledge to a public place for everyone to read and take what they will.  Me?  I am pointedly criticizing you, for doing the exact opposite.

If you believe a point incorrect, return the favor and rebut with logic and knowledge, not sarcasm and disparagement.


My post is full sense of humor.

D&T isnt acknowledging anyone. His post is directed at me then pointing out the obvious like i need those crap. Hes not making point when he cant get my point. If you dont get what i'm saying, re read his post. Dont bother to reply otherwise.




No one gets what you are saying. A 24 man lab group does not get what your saying. Laughing? Yes, that we are. This is by far the best post of ...

"I dont have the facts to back this up..." ever!

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November 29, 2011, 08:19:27 PM
 #34

Third, the dumb poster didnt even think doing this is the most INefficient because you're producing the middleman from liquid to air. Why use AC to cool the room air temp? Who's the dumb ass now?

Either you drop AC all together and use geothermal to cool the heatsource directly (your mining farm) thro or use AC to chill your liquid which carries heat from the heatsource.

Yes, the poster doesnt know crap right from the moment he asked if using pool and radiator in his "mineral oil cooling"
You'll notice I never proposed using a pool and AC unit to cool a mining rig.

Also your last sentence here isn't a sentence.

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November 29, 2011, 08:35:57 PM
 #35

Third, the dumb poster didnt even think doing this is the most INefficient because you're producing the middleman from liquid to air. Why use AC to cool the room air temp? Who's the dumb ass now?

Either you drop AC all together and use geothermal to cool the heatsource directly (your mining farm) thro or use AC to chill your liquid which carries heat from the heatsource.

Yes, the poster doesnt know crap right from the moment he asked if using pool and radiator in his "mineral oil cooling"
You'll notice I never proposed using a pool and AC unit to cool a mining rig.

Also your last sentence here isn't a sentence.
Oh yes, as if cooling condensor is the concern in term of engergy consumption. Your so called proposal is a laughable idea at best.

maybe you should stick with mineral oil idea.


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November 29, 2011, 08:36:50 PM
 #36

.. Don't invite the nonsense arguments and then turn to calling everyone idiots ..

God has nothing to do with technology.

Case in point.  What you just did there was respond to a colloquialism.  You're either inviting someone to think/call you a fool, or again this is a language barrier.

Re-reading the thread, I can't even tell what point you're trying to argue.  D&T isn't trying to educate you with crap, this is a public forum.  He's adding knowledge to a public place for everyone to read and take what they will.  Me?  I am pointedly criticizing you, for doing the exact opposite.

If you believe a point incorrect, return the favor and rebut with logic and knowledge, not sarcasm and disparagement.


My post is full sense of humor.

D&T isnt acknowledging anyone. His post is directed at me then pointing out the obvious like i need those crap. Hes not making point when he cant get my point. If you dont get what i'm saying, re read his post. Dont bother to reply otherwise.




No one gets what you are saying. A 24 man lab group does not get what your saying. Laughing? Yes, that we are. This is by far the best post of ...

"I dont have the facts to back this up..." ever!

What is there to back up? idiot

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November 29, 2011, 08:37:59 PM
 #37

Oh yes, as if cooling condensor is the concern in term of engergy consumption. Your so called proposal is a laughable idea at best.

Um... heating pools IS A large consumer of energy.  Energy on can get for free by using waste heat. Waste heat like .... the hot side of heatpump.
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November 29, 2011, 08:40:45 PM
 #38

Oh yes, as if cooling condensor is the concern in term of engergy consumption. Your so called proposal is a laughable idea at best.

Um... heating pools IS A large consumer of energy.  Energy on can get for free by using waste heat. Waste heat like .... the hot side of heatpump.

oh so we're heating the pool now?

Maybe we should build a green house in the backyard as well, so we can take use of all available energy.




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November 29, 2011, 08:45:36 PM
 #39

Oh yes, as if cooling condensor is the concern in term of engergy consumption. Your so called proposal is a laughable idea at best.

Um... heating pools IS A large consumer of energy.  Energy on can get for free by using waste heat. Waste heat like .... the hot side of heatpump.

oh so we're heating the pool now?

Maybe we should build a green house in the backyard as well, so we can take use of all available energy.

If you are going to troll at least read the thread you are trolling.

Quote
By the way, the pool is an excellent idea! Actually, why don't people's home AC units dump heat to the pool? We could easily manufacture a window AC unit with two tubes and one cable coming out of the back which you run to your pool. On the end of one of the tubes is a tiny pump which pumps water through the AC unit and back to the pool. It would be much cheaper AC and a pool at a comfortable temperature! Why doesn't this exist?

The post that started your thread derail and troll-a-thon wasn't about mining rigs specifically it was about using waste heat from an AC unit.  Dual use technology.  The pool improves AC unit efficiency (by lowering the ambient temp of hot side) and the wasted heat it used to heat the pool for "free".  The consumer saves on heating the pool and on cooling costs.

Life is too short to deal w/ sad angry idiots.  Welcome to ignore.
plastic.elastic
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November 29, 2011, 08:47:45 PM
 #40

Oh yes, as if cooling condensor is the concern in term of engergy consumption. Your so called proposal is a laughable idea at best.

Um... heating pools IS A large consumer of energy.  Energy on can get for free by using waste heat. Waste heat like .... the hot side of heatpump.

oh so we're heating the pool now?

Maybe we should build a green house in the backyard as well, so we can take use of all available energy.

If you are going to troll at least read the thread you are trolling.

Quote
By the way, the pool is an excellent idea! Actually, why don't people's home AC units dump heat to the pool? We could easily manufacture a window AC unit with two tubes and one cable coming out of the back which you run to your pool. On the end of one of the tubes is a tiny pump which pumps water through the AC unit and back to the pool. It would be much cheaper AC and a pool at a comfortable temperature! Why doesn't this exist?

The post wasn't about mining rigs specifically it was about using waste heat from an AC unit.  The pool improves AC unit efficiency (by lowering the ambient temp of hot side) and the wasted heat it used to heat the pool for "free".

Life is too short to deal w/ sad angry idiots.  Welcome to ignore.


Great idea. because i'm sure the pool would need some heating while you use your AC to cool the house. You're know its fcking hot outside.
 


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