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[digaran]

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[Rikafip]

I don't know if they were dropped on their head or something, but did 2 DT members just tagged a LE representative on this platform?

Just because someone names his account "FIODNederland" doesn't mean that its their representative.

I'd suggest they remove their feedback immediately if they don't want to be associated with a sanctioned service and having their names blacklisted.

Lol you serious? Even if it turns out that it was indeed legit account, why would their name be "blacklisted". This is not North Korea.

[Vod]

All is good, my bad. They are just concerned citizens protecting this community from??? The account has posted an official announcement of shutting down any activity due to criminal charges, then you have 2 people giving the account negative trust!!!! What could go wrong, after all when you speak against someone, they tag you!!!

Did that account spoke against sinbad or those 2 DT? am I saying this to have revenge on people I never met or had any interactions with?

It's for their own good, and the community's. We wouldn't want to be seen as a community defending criminals.

Criminals defending criminals?

 

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Lol, sometimes I feel like an alien from outer space, because when I talk, they seem to "hear" gibberish.

If you're referring to the members who responded to you here, it's because of your reputation--which you earned.

There's an old saying that says "We judge ourselves by our intentions.  Others judge us by our actions."  You might think you're a white knight, a paragon of lucidity amidst a forum comprised of drooling retards, but that's not what the forum is telling you.  Could they all be wrong?  Sure, but that's like saying you could get struck by lightning after winning the lottery, i.e., you might want to take a minute and do some self-reflection.

All that said, I do at least appreciate you making me aware of this news.  I'm going to have to search for more info on what happened, as I'm interested in the legitimacy of these new mixing services. 

By the way, law enforcement deserves a lot of criticism for a lot of different things.  I'm not saying they're wrong in this instance, but I wouldn't blindly defend any government agency.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

My man, what actions? I'm talking about the fact that in a press release they said this, and this is a public forum, all can read what we say.
<snip>
Any US citizen gets an immediate blacklist. I'm just warning people here.

Well in this case it's just your words, not your actions.  And like I said, if you find yourself getting flamed in every thread you post in or create, it's because of your reputation.  In other words, unless said reputation gets a good polishing you're never going to be able to taken seriously, even if you're in the right.  It's a harsh forum, but you know that already.

So most of this action has to do with some group of hackers in N. Korea?  And that makes every other user of the mixer guilty?  That's also pretty harsh.

[philipma1957]

My man, what actions? I'm talking about the fact that in a press release they said this, and this is a public forum, all can read what we say.
<snip>
Any US citizen gets an immediate blacklist. I'm just warning people here.

Well in this case it's just your words, not your actions.  And like I said, if you find yourself getting flamed in every thread you post in or create, it's because of your reputation.  In other words, unless said reputation gets a good polishing you're never going to be able to taken seriously, even if you're in the right.  It's a harsh forum, but you know that already.

So most of this action has to do with some group of hackers in N. Korea?  And that makes every other user of the mixer guilty?  That's also pretty harsh.

Yeah its really harsh. For instance SBF was running a dishonest exchange so every american using it should be blacklisted?

[suchmoon]

My man, what actions? I'm talking about the fact that in a press release they said this, and this is a public forum, all can read what we say.
<snip>
Any US citizen gets an immediate blacklist. I'm just warning people here.

Well in this case it's just your words, not your actions.  And like I said, if you find yourself getting flamed in every thread you post in or create, it's because of your reputation.  In other words, unless said reputation gets a good polishing you're never going to be able to taken seriously, even if you're in the right.  It's a harsh forum, but you know that already.

So most of this action has to do with some group of hackers in N. Korea?  And that makes every other user of the mixer guilty?  That's also pretty harsh.

Yeah its really harsh. For instance SBF was running a dishonest exchange so every american using it should be blacklisted?

Not sure why you two are feeding the sig-spamming troll. Read the actual treasury press release. It doesn't say that past users of the mixer are guilty... but if you continue doing business with the sanctioned entity you may get into trouble. Kinda moot point now that the website is down.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Not sure why you two are feeding the sig-spamming troll. Read the actual treasury press release. It doesn't say that past users of the mixer are guilty... but if you continue doing business with the sanctioned entity you may get into trouble. Kinda moot point now that the website is down.

I wasn't intentionally feeding a troll (though my remarks about his rep and such probably did just that--my bad).

Visiting government websites isn't my favorite activity, and I feel unclean the longer I linger on one, so I didn't do a thorough reading of what the Treasury Department wrote.  Did the article not say that anyone involved in mixing their funds with the various alleged criminals they mentioned essentially give up their rights to said funds?  It could very well be that I read it wrong or too quickly.

And I don't know, what this looks like is the Treasury trying to protect the USD by vilifying crypto as hard and publicly as they can.

[Helena Yu]

Read the negative feedback explanation, if I create an alt account using your wife or parent names, can you trust me?

Negative - You think that trading with this person is high-risk. You might also be able to add a flag.

Did the article not say that anyone involved in mixing their funds with the various alleged criminals they mentioned essentially give up their rights to said funds?

It says they will block the funds that associated with Sinbad, but the sanctions is only for people who use Sinbad after this article released.

SANCTIONS IMPLICATIONS

As a result of today’s action, all property and interests in property of the entity described above that are in the United States or in the possession or control of U.S. persons must be blocked and reported to OFAC. OFAC’s regulations generally prohibit all dealings by U.S. persons or within the United States (including transactions transiting the United States) that involve any property or interests in property of a blocked or designated entity.

In addition, persons that engage in certain transactions with the entity designated today may themselves be exposed to sanctions.

There's an unaccepted proposal dedicated for mixing, it's not only for Sinbad, but every kind of ways to achieve privacy https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2023/10/23/2023-23449/proposal-of-special-measure-regarding-convertible-virtual-currency-mixing-as-a-class-of-transactions

[nutildah]

And btw, the same members that immediately tagged that account, will now have a target on their backs as a "suspect". Don't take my words for it, when you think about it, you'd know.

I thought about it and no, they won't. That's a ridiculous assertion. We don't even know for sure that is a legitimately government-controlled account.

I'm sure the US government does keep a database of everything that's ever happened on this forum (maybe other governments do as well) -- going all the way back to the Dread Pirate Roberts days, or maybe even the Wikileaks donation days. The NSA likely keeps an archive of the entire internet. Unless you're laundering drug money, ransomware/hacker theft money, or work for a terrorist group, I wouldn't worry about it.

[NotATether]

My man, what actions? I'm talking about the fact that in a press release they said this, and this is a public forum, all can read what we say.
<snip>
Any US citizen gets an immediate blacklist. I'm just warning people here.

Well in this case it's just your words, not your actions.  And like I said, if you find yourself getting flamed in every thread you post in or create, it's because of your reputation.  In other words, unless said reputation gets a good polishing you're never going to be able to taken seriously, even if you're in the right.  It's a harsh forum, but you know that already.

So most of this action has to do with some group of hackers in N. Korea?  And that makes every other user of the mixer guilty?  That's also pretty harsh.

Yeah its really harsh. For instance SBF was running a dishonest exchange so every american using it should be blacklisted?

No, you're missing the point. SBF paid off politicians in Washington (nevermind using customers' money), so they're obviously not going to go after him /s

In all seriousness though, it looks like the world governments are declaring war on mixers, and by extension, crypto privacy.

I'm not sure how someone can get OFAC sanctioned for dealing with Sinbad in the future if they have already shut down though.

[JeromeTash]

The person behind the account had to even purchase a copper membership just to make the announcements? Who does that?

I had this board on ignore, just removed the tick to let you know about the implications. 

Sounds about right, because in the last 7 days, you have had 54 posts in the same board you put on ignore 

[The Sceptical Chymist]

The person behind the account had to even purchase a copper membership just to make the announcements? Who does that?

I ought to know this, having been here so long, but maybe it was so that he could post that image?  I think that's one of the restrictions a copper membership lets you side-step.

And I just read that announcement again; though I don't have any doubts that sinbad was seized, some of the wording there was just weird--even the first line:

To all criminal users of former mixer Sinbad.io

What kind of official statement starts off with what amounts to "Hey, all you criminals!"?  And this, too:

We urge all criminal users and admins of mixers to cease all unlawful actions immediately. Persistent engagement will lead to severe legal consequences.

That has nothing to do with sinbad.  It's just a general threat.  So I've no clue what motivated the person behind the FIODNederland to post that, but it just looks bizarre to me.

[BenCodie]

In all seriousness though, it looks like the world governments are declaring war on mixers, and by extension, crypto privacy.

Indeed. Reason is they're starting to realise that chain analysis and other related scams are simply not effective enough to pinpoint  and accurately target any of the results that it provides. AML scores, chain labeling, etc. are fools games. These tools alone are not enough to be able to do an LE job properly. One reason for such, might be mixers, maybe privacy protocols, maybe other means of privacy. Now, imagine that a group or entity finally realize that they've spent hundreds of millions, maybe in the billions, for ineffective tech?

What happens then? Irrational and old means...
fear tactics & war


Don't make yourself a target, don't make yourself a victim and stay out of the crosshairs of these relentless entities. Ensure your cybersecurity and privacy is up to scratch!

The person behind the account had to even purchase a copper membership just to make the announcements? Who does that?

I ought to know this, having been here so long, but maybe it was so that he could post that image?  I think that's one of the restrictions a copper membership lets you side-step.

And I just read that announcement again; though I don't have any doubts that sinbad was seized, some of the wording there was just weird--even the first line:

To all criminal users of former mixer Sinbad.io

What kind of official statement starts off with what amounts to "Hey, all you criminals!"?  And this, too:

We urge all criminal users and admins of mixers to cease all unlawful actions immediately. Persistent engagement will lead to severe legal consequences.

That has nothing to do with sinbad.  It's just a general threat.  So I've no clue what motivated the person behind the FIODNederland to post that, but it just looks bizarre to me.

Maybe all of this is adding up to a smart exit strategy. If so. Seems to be fooling everyone. Theymos should check if the copper membership fee was paid from an address connected to Sinbad

I wonder if anyone had mixing in progress/any ongoing business with Sinbad before all of this...and what the status is now.

(I know - it's no joke with the government release. I'm strictly talking about the BCT account created and its purpose. Validity of what I've said above is no more than some thoughts...)

[JeromeTash]

-snip-

I'm strictly talking about the BCT account created and its purpose. Validity of what I've said above is no more than some thoughts...)

If you look at the timing, I have a feeling that the account might have actually been created by LE for the purpose of making the announcement here. Unless if someone has some supernatural powers or saw the leaked seizure announcement before the official publication.

Check LoyceV's findings.

Unlikely. The account was created 2.5 hours before fiod.nl published this article, and posted about it 6 minutes after publication.

[Poker Player]

In my opinion there is nothing wrong with leaving negative feedback on that account as long as we don't know that it really belongs to FIOD from the Netherlands, which could be easily proven. Another thing is that it seems likely that it is, as JeromeTash comments, and that is a bit of a concern. Can you imagine the FBI creating an account in a similar situation?

[suchmoon]

In my opinion there is nothing wrong with leaving negative feedback on that account as long as we don't know that it really belongs to FIOD from the Netherlands, which could be easily proven. Another thing is that it seems likely that it is, as JeromeTash comments, and that is a bit of a concern. Can you imagine the FBI creating an account in a similar situation?

Why would that be a problem? Free country, even Winnie the Pooh is welcome to create an account here. I think.

[JeromeTash]

Another thing is that it seems likely that it is, as JeromeTash comments, and that is a bit of a concern. Can you imagine the FBI creating an account in a similar situation?

The Feds have probably been in this forum or created several accounts here way before we even registered 
Imagine the old wild Silk Road days, you think they didn't bother scouting these streets for evidence?

Just saying that there is nothing to be surprised or worried about because they can be anywhere if they want to.

[KTChampions]

Just a bunch of teenagers acting so immaturely, not realizing what implications your actions have.
Acting like cartel leaders to immediately tag a LE account the same day they announced taking down an illegal service, now good for you, keep those morons on DT, because we are in bed with criminals after all, now that we don't condemn such behaviour, right? Well I will do my unimportant part of ~ those bozos.

Don’t forget to stop drinking water because that’s what criminals do, you don’t want to be like them? 


I think any government official who wanders onto the forum (with threats and “warnings”) should be marked red. There are irresistible contradictions between Bitcoin and the fiat legal system, and interaction with such guests carries obvious risks.