Do you trust the co-vid19 vaccine ?

[mindrust]

but making mandatory for all, young and children with a near zero risk of dying from Covid included, without knowing the side-efects in the mid-long term, is just insane to me.

At last somebody with a functioning brain cells made an appearence.

The vaccination agenda was set in motion long before the covid19. If you want to see the evidences, they are everywhere. They have been telling you this in the past 10 years. If you want to find them they are only 1 click away from you.  That's if you "really" want to find and see them because brainwashed people can't see them even when you spoon feed them with information.

[beertoll]

but making mandatory for all, young and children with a near zero risk of dying from Covid included, without knowing the side-efects in the mid-long term, is just insane to me.

At last somebody with a functioning brain cells made an appearence.

The vaccination agenda was set in motion long before the covid19. If you want to see the evidences, they are everywhere. They have been telling you this in the past 10 years. If you want to find them they are only 1 click away from you.  That's if you "really" want to find and see them because brainwashed people can't see them even when you spoon feed them with information.

That's because vaccination of the population is a conspiracy in your head and you think there is a secret "agenda". No, it hasn't started in the past 10 years. The growing list of mandatory vaccination requirements for children and certain professions was in place many decades ago. Many of you fully vaccinated anti-vaxxers don't have terrible diseases like polio because of the mandatory vaccinations.

Every parent who participates in their kids' lives is aware of that. But somehow you think that it is a piece of secret information. And it is literally one post away, although you read only whatever fits your already established beliefs:

Some vaccines are already mandatory and have been for many decades,  before some people were born.

Some people who are against vaccines have been vaccinated for a number of diseases and just don't realize it.

For example, in the US, each state decides which vaccines are required for children before enrollment and attendance at childcare facilities or schools.

Some professions require mandatory vaccinations as well.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/parents/records/schools.html
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/imz-managers/laws/index.html

For the state of Illinois the minimum requirement for mandatory vaccines is:
Diphtheria
Pertussis
Tetanus
Polio
Measles
Rubella
Mumps
Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib)
Invasive Pneumococcal Disease
Hepatitis B
Varicella
Meningococcal Disease

Virtually every country has a list of mandatory vaccines. You can check requirements on your country's health department website and find out what is already mandatory in your country and learn that you have been vaccinated against a bunch of diseases and realize that one more mandatory vaccine is not as big of a deal as people make it.

Regarding why is it important for as many people as possible to get the COVID vaccine, there are several reasons, one of them is to not let the virus mutate in unvaccinated and create new variants that can infect vaccinated.
You can read more here if you are genuinely interested:
https://www.clickondetroit.com/health/2021/05/03/why-is-it-important-for-as-many-people-as-possible-to-get-the-covid-vaccine/

[beertoll]

Read my original answer to your post here before it gets buried:

My previous answer has information about side effects and in this post, I want to reiterate the need to vaccinate as many people as possible, even those with a lower risk.

I do understand that taking into account the emergency in all the world and the threat for some elderly and vulnerable people, they are helping many people for whom it is less the risk of the vaccine than of the virus; but making mandatory for all, young and children with a near zero risk of dying from Covid included, without knowing the side-efects in the mid-long term, is just insane to me.

First of all, I'm not aware of near-zero risk groups. Even in young people, there can be a form of brain damage. COVID-19 can cause strokes, seizures and Guillain-Barre syndrome — a condition that causes temporary paralysis. COVID-19 may also increase the risk of developing Parkinson's disease and Alzheimer's disease. Some adults and children experience multisystem inflammatory syndrome after they have had COVID-19. In this condition, some organs and tissues become severely inflamed. Imaging tests taken months after recovery from COVID-19 have shown lasting damage to the heart muscle, even in people who experienced only mild COVID-19 symptoms. This may increase the risk of heart failure or other heart complications in the future. The type of pneumonia often associated with COVID-19 can cause long-standing damage to the tiny air sacs (alveoli) in the lungs. The resulting scar tissue can lead to long-term breathing problems.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-long-term-effects/art-20490351

There are several reasons for the need to vaccinate as many people as possible, but the main reason is that vaccines, including Covid vaccines, are not magical potions that put a holly shield around you. They train your immune system to recognize certain proteins. If a virus mutates into new variants that use altered proteins - your immune system may not be able to recognize them.

If half of the population is unvaccinated, they may cultivate new variants that will start infecting vaccinated people and all the efforts to combat the pandemic will be in vain.

[Jet Cash]

They don't train your immune systemn to do anything, your adaptive immune system does that. All vaccines do is to bypass your primary protection, and present fake information in the hope that this will create a form of immunity. There are several things that can go wrong, especially if a patient is not tested vefore vaccination. These errors can cause an opportunistic virus to mnutate and negate the benefits (??) of vaccination.

Vaccines increase the risk of mutations, not those who believe in the experience and skills of Mother Nature. Mother Nature wants to save you, big pharma doesn't care - they just want your money, or your government's.

[beertoll]

They don't train your immune systemn to do anything, your adaptive immune system does that. All vaccines do is to bypass your primary protection, and present fake information in the hope that this will create a form of immunity. There are several things that can go wrong, especially if a patient is not tested vefore vaccination. These errors can cause an opportunistic virus to mnutate and negate the benefits (??) of vaccination.

Vaccines increase the risk of mutations, not those who believe in the experience and skills of Mother Nature. Mother Nature wants to save you, big pharma doesn't care - they just want your money, or your government's.

Another one with the big pharma.

What you said is nonsense because mRNA vaccines do not introduce viruses to your organism. They instruct your cells to create proteins which you immune system recognize as foreign and trains to combat them in the future.

Understanding mRNA COVID-19 Vaccines - https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/mrna.html#:~:text=First%2C%20COVID%2D19%20mRNA%20vaccines,protein%20piece%20on%20its%20surface.

[Ultegra134]

They don't train your immune systemn to do anything, your adaptive immune system does that. All vaccines do is to bypass your primary protection, and present fake information in the hope that this will create a form of immunity. There are several things that can go wrong, especially if a patient is not tested vefore vaccination. These errors can cause an opportunistic virus to mnutate and negate the benefits (??) of vaccination.

Vaccines increase the risk of mutations, not those who believe in the experience and skills of Mother Nature. Mother Nature wants to save you, big pharma doesn't care - they just want your money, or your government's.

Mutations are a normal occurrence and has been happening with all viruses, even of the common flu/influenza. I don't get why most anti-vaxxers and conspiracy theorists just won't understand that this is normal behavior. Viruses mutate in order to survive, new strains do not necessarily mean that vaccines are useless, they may have a lower efficacy, but they still work to a decent percent.

In worst case scenario, a third dose can be administered, to fight the newest strains, that's what happens with the influenza virus too.

[Porfirii]

You beertoll and Ultegra134 are using the antivaxxer and conspiracy theorist labels and, although with many people you are right, you should not take a black-and-white approach as this is not my case as I am not against vaccines, just want to wait and see a little bit before deciding to get the jab safely and I just don't accept any Government making it mandatory in this phase without further testing, as it would set a very dangerous precedent.

First of all, I'm not aware of near-zero risk groups. Even in young people, there can be a form of brain damage. COVID-19 can cause strokes, seizures and Guillain-Barre syndrome — a condition that causes temporary paralysis.

As I am young and the risk for me to die from covid is near zero (estimated 0,2%), if you are not aware of near-zero risk groups you should, especially when you say that we only read whatever fits our established beliefs. I am aware of the risks of the virus, of course, but the vaccine has reported side effects too, with several deaths from strokes and thrombosis among others (a few days ago a young boy of 21 years died from the vaccine in my country). 1st rule in medicine: do not harm.

That's because vaccination of the population is a conspiracy in your head and you think there is a secret "agenda". No, it hasn't started in the past 10 years. The growing list of mandatory vaccination requirements for children and certain professions was in place many decades ago. Many of you fully vaccinated anti-vaxxers don't have terrible diseases like polio because of the mandatory vaccinations.

I know well the polio as one familiar of mine got it when there wasn't any vaccine for it. The effects in children of these diseases you posted are devastating, nothing to do with Covid, and even in the case of the polio vaccine, when it was released for the first time, many millions of doses were contaminated by HPV, which wasn't known in that moment, with millions of women dying from womb cancer derivated from the vaccination  10 or even more than 20 years after it.

With these precedents, you should at least understand that some people prefer to wait and see, especially when the typical minimum timeline for any drugs to be safe has been reduced by 10 times with these brand new vaccines: you talk about trusting the scientific community when they are not meeting the proper observation criteria which are the fundamentals of the scientific method.

No need to be an anti-vaxxer nor a conspirathy theorist to have a healthy critical mindset.

[franky1]

seems tvbcof and badecker and tash are not complaining about science.. they are just complaining about american doctors..

well thats their capitalism for them

in the UK doctors dont get commission. in many countries doctors dont get commission.
there is no 'pill mill' drug problem in the UK where doctors write scripts for cash.

guess this proves badecker and co dont like capitalism after al and would prefer it if doctors treat patients as patients and not customers. as that is all badecker and co keep displaying when they argue about american medical system.. the money making doctors  act funny.. and that includes the links to badeckers influencers that pay doctors to say foolish things like advertise herbal remedies and drugs not made for the conspiracy influencers adverts.

but hey, capitalism so even if badecker hates doctors for it. he then loves doctors for it. making badecker and co.. hypocrits

[beertoll]

You beertoll and Ultegra134 are using the antivaxxer and conspiracy theorist labels and, although with many people you are right, you should not take a black-and-white approach as this is not my case as I am not against vaccines, just want to wait and see a little bit before deciding to get the jab safely and I just don't accept any Government making it mandatory in this phase without further testing, as it would set a very dangerous precedent.

First of all, I'm not aware of near-zero risk groups. Even in young people, there can be a form of brain damage. COVID-19 can cause strokes, seizures and Guillain-Barre syndrome — a condition that causes temporary paralysis.

As I am young and the risk for me to die from covid is near zero (estimated 0,2%), if you are not aware of near-zero risk groups you should, especially when you say that we only read whatever fits our established beliefs. I am aware of the risks of the virus, of course, but the vaccine has reported side effects too, with several deaths from strokes and thrombosis among others (a few days ago a young boy of 21 years died from the vaccine in my country). 1st rule in medicine: do not harm.

That's because vaccination of the population is a conspiracy in your head and you think there is a secret "agenda". No, it hasn't started in the past 10 years. The growing list of mandatory vaccination requirements for children and certain professions was in place many decades ago. Many of you fully vaccinated anti-vaxxers don't have terrible diseases like polio because of the mandatory vaccinations.

I know well the polio as one familiar of mine got it when there wasn't any vaccine for it. The effects in children of these diseases you posted are devastating, nothing to do with Covid, and even in the case of the polio vaccine, when it was released for the first time, many millions of doses were contaminated by HPV, which wasn't known in that moment, with millions of women dying from womb cancer derivated from the vaccination  10 or even more than 20 years after it.

With these precedents, you should at least understand that some people prefer to wait and see, especially when the typical minimum timeline for any drugs to be safe has been reduced by 10 times with these brand new vaccines: you talk about trusting the scientific community when they are not meeting the proper observation criteria which are the fundamentals of the scientific method.

No need to be an anti-vaxxer nor a conspirathy theorist to have a healthy critical mindset.

In none of my responses to you, I labeled you or used the term anti-vaxxer. I mentioned people who are against vaccines in general that are fully vaccinated but are not aware of it. My replies to you are thorough and non-haughty. I share my opinions with you in a dialogue without any attacks. I used the anti-vaxxer term only with people who mention big pharma in every post and imply that their government wants to poison them, not in replies intended to you. The quotes you've highlighted or mentioned are the responses to other people's posts as you can see.

Before this reply of yours, I said that I understand when people base their fears on the fact that it is a new vaccine and that some people prefer to wait and see. And now after you saying "...you should at least understand that some people..." I think you've missed that reply. That reply has information on some misunderstandings about the rapid timelines and safety of these vaccines, why the corners weren't cut and why the long terms effects are unplausible, and why it is riskier to wait that vaccinate. The original reply - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5294239.msg57582041#msg57582041

Totally agree with, "No need to be an anti-vaxxer nor a conspiracy theorist to have a healthy critical mindset" but many people say that they have critical mindset. Oftentimes people think that when they go against common knowledge or authorities or established science is because they have critical mindset.

Regarding your quote, "if you are not aware of near-zero risk groups you should, especially when you say that we only read whatever fits our established beliefs", I'm aware of low-risk groups and the 0.20 percent of people dying is not near zero to me. And I never heard that someone else would call it near zero. Here is an illustration, in a college that has 5000 students, 10 young people may die (0.2%). Again, this is not near zero to me. Also realize that they will bring the virus to their family members who may have a higher risk of dying and hospitalization.


P. S. People with truly critical mindsets will be able to make the right choices. I believe that you are one of them and you just need to keep relying on sources of scientific evidence. Writing thorough responses takes time, and although some people enter into a dialogue, some just spew random stuff. I don't see a value in responding to most of those comments and going to spend my time on something useful. I'm unsubscribing from this thread and apologize if I won't see your reply and won't reply to you.

P. P. S. Look at the comment below which is a perfect example of "people just spew random stuff". So I hope Porfirii you will understand why I think this is a waste of time.

[Tash]

Seems beertoll did not get the message that the great covid war is already decided, and he lost.

[beertoll]

Seems beertoll did not get the message that the great covid war is already decided, and he lost.

And this is a very good illustration of what I meant by "just spew random stuff". So I hope Porfirii you will understand why I think this is a waste of time.

[Jet Cash]

mRNA vaccines are not new, they have been under development for over 20 years. It's just that they don't work. Also the spike protein doesn't always stay in the muscle tissue, but can escape and float round the body, before settling in important organs. There is no research or information on the effect this will have, but it is certainly not beneficial.

I understand how they work, and they are a step closer to the use of the live virus. I just don't understand why they don't use the live virus to create natural immunity. Oh wait, there isn't any money in that.

[beertoll]

mRNA vaccines are not new, they have been under development for over 20 years. It's just that they don't work. Also the spike protein doesn't always stay in the muscle tissue, but can escape and float round the body, before settling in important organs. There is no research or information on the effect this will have, but it is certainly not beneficial.

I understand how they work, and they are a step closer to the use of the live virus. I just don't understand why they don't use the live virus to create natural immunity. Oh wait, there isn't any money in that.

You don't understand how mRNA vaccines work.


After vaccination, the cells make copies of the spike protein, and the mRNA is degraded within a few days and the spike proteins last only up to a few weeks.
https://www.muhealth.org/our-stories/how-do-we-know-covid-19-vaccine-wont-have-long-term-side-effects


Understanding How COVID-19 Vaccines Work - https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/how-they-work.html

[Ultegra134]

mRNA vaccines are not new, they have been under development for over 20 years. It's just that they don't work. Also the spike protein doesn't always stay in the muscle tissue, but can escape and float round the body, before settling in important organs. There is no research or information on the effect this will have, but it is certainly not beneficial.

I understand how they work, and they are a step closer to the use of the live virus. I just don't understand why they don't use the live virus to create natural immunity. Oh wait, there isn't any money in that.

mRNA is an old technology indeed, however it's far from ineffective. It's a promising technology to even cure some forms of cancer, which is currently in clinical testing, I don't get where you got your sources from. On top of that, there are already quite a few vaccines that are using a live virus to create immunity, such as the AstraZeneca, Sputnik and Johnson.

I think you got it all wrong.

[tvbcof]

mRNA vaccines are not new, they have been under development for over 20 years. It's just that they don't work. Also the spike protein doesn't always stay in the muscle tissue, but can escape and float round the body, before settling in important organs. There is no research or information on the effect this will have, but it is certainly not beneficial.
...

Just to note, a bigger concern is not so much about the spike proteins themselves (made by genetically modified muscle cells) floating around, but more so about the LNPs which carry the genetic reprogramming payloads homing in on certain tissues and thus infecting certain cell types which are found here and there around the body.  These LNPs have been shown (by Pfizer to Japan before it was leaked) to have an affinity for both the spleen and the ovaries.

Now, for the last half decade or so I remember various scientism rag stories about 'new targeted drug delivery systems'.  News from that front went oddly quite for a year or so before the plandemic kicked off.  It's not the only thing which is big news to geeks then suddenly practically vanishes without a trace.  One of these days I'll look back and see if it were LNPs or related which were of such interest back then.

[beertoll]

mRNA vaccines are not new, they have been under development for over 20 years. It's just that they don't work. Also the spike protein doesn't always stay in the muscle tissue, but can escape and float round the body, before settling in important organs. There is no research or information on the effect this will have, but it is certainly not beneficial.
...

Just to note, a bigger concern is not so much about the spike proteins themselves (made by genetically modified muscle cells) floating around, but more so about the LNPs which carry the genetic reprogramming payloads homing in on certain tissues and thus infecting certain cell types which are found here and there around the body.  These LNPs have been shown (by Pfizer to Japan before it was leaked) to have an affinity for both the spleen and the ovaries.

Now, for the last half decade or so I remember various scientism rag stories about 'new targeted drug delivery systems'.  News from that front went oddly quite for a year or so before the plandemic kicked off.  It's not the only thing which is big news to geeks then suddenly practically vanishes without a trace.  One of these days I'll look back and see if it were LNPs or related which were of such interest back then.

I clicked "unwatch" this thread. Why is this sourceless insane delirium still gets emailed to me?

[tvbcof]

...

I clicked "unwatch" this thread. Why is this sourceless insane delirium still gets emailed to me?

The 'meta' board is where you would ask such questions.

[Quickseller]

In worst case scenario, a third dose can be administered, to fight the newest strains, that's what happens with the influenza virus too.

The flu vaccine is usually different each year and will depend on the mutations of the flu from the prior year.

The Covid vaccine is safe and effective and is more effective when measuring by serious cases of Covid requiring ICU hospitalization or death.

There is a risk that the Covid vaccine will harm you, but the risk is less than the benefit that it gives you via reducing the chances of you being seriously harmed by Covid, even if you are healthy.

[franky1]

mRNA vaccines are not new, they have been under development for over 20 years. It's just that they don't work. Also the spike protein doesn't always stay in the muscle tissue, but can escape and float round the body, before settling in important organs. There is no research or information on the effect this will have, but it is certainly not beneficial.

I understand how they work, and they are a step closer to the use of the live virus. I just don't understand why they don't use the live virus to create natural immunity. Oh wait, there isn't any money in that.

you know less than you think you know. and not willing to learn the bits you dont know

to create a 'live virus' that is attenuated to not replicate as much. requires incubating it at low temperatures, over multiple generations until its attained a function that at normal body temperatures it cant function its replication effectively

this was the NIH/Wuhan study of 2016-2020 that conspiracy idiots thought was covid research. . yep they used 2002 sars from bats found 2008-2018 and tried to attenuate them down into being 'live virus that does not replicate'.. and results is. it was to long a production process and unable to be done to then mass produce a vaccine for the world.. yep its not a GAIN of function found in the study. it was actually a study on attenuating down the function..

EG its like
(send a man to the arctic to have kids, grandkids, great grandkids where they get used to having sex in the snow.. then you will find if you take that multi-generational descendant to the carribean. he will be too sunburned and sweaty and heat stroked and not wanna have sex.)

this is the method that usually takes a long time to produce. and does not always work

some say that a live virus has more then just the spike protein identifier and having more then just the spike identifier means more things for immune system to learn about a virus.
the problem is the more different things it tries to learn to attack. the less it can concentrate on any single battle plan. thus making the immune system too diluted with too many differing antibodies.

EG its like
instead of one army training camp trained to recognise al-queda by the black flag with white writing. jetcash's idea is a training camp with small groups of troops. one trained to attack anyone with a head scarf. another small set to attack anyone with sandals and another small troop group to attach anyone without caucasian skin

best action is all troops should go after the guys waving the al-queda flag

by identifying one aspect that really does affect the body. like its spike 'key' into a cells 'lock' to open a cell up for invasion. this can be used more effectively to identify the virus holding the key before it gets to a lock. or identify an intruder if it gets to a cells door with the key

by having antibodies (small little Y shape) trained for the spike. these can latch onto the spike(key) and block it from being able to fit the lock. thus no invasion into a cell. and then send a message to kill the thing they just blocked with the other immuno cells

but if you have a mix of antibodies lokking for different things. the amount of antibodies that wil latch onto the spike is decreased

more varied antibodies=less antibodies for specific function..

in short the simpleist solution is the quickest solution

[mindrust]

There is a risk that the Covid vaccine will harm you, but the risk is less than the benefit that it gives you via reducing the chances of you being seriously harmed by Covid, even if you are healthy.

If you don't know about the long term effects of the vaccine, how can you say there is less risk than the potential benefits?

The vaccine is being tested on people right now and its long term effects will be visible (if there are any) years later from now.

You sound pretty stewpid.