Is Bitcoin for “Fake Rich”?

[as.exchange]

Bitcoin is good just for money grab
Year 2017 shows dont be late dont be the bag holder!!

Like all the Investment Bitcoin is no Different main thing just dont be the that last guy the bag holder.

Yeah, one of points also. What you refer to is "greater fool theory" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory)

I don't know why you say that, if the reason is that you think they haven't real value like fiat, in my opinion, it's because they prefer to save for a higher price, they will actually get rich once they sell it at the price they have targeted.

Not at all - doesn't mean I think Bitcoin doesn't have a value. Otherwise I wouldn't be here, and our project wouldn't be starting with BTC as underlying first Just out of curiosity and analogy, had this possible thinking based on socio-economic trends, how iPhone, then Tesla, then now in China real estate developers - all playing on the same trend "fake rich", and with the above comments about "owning a number" - I guess it adds points to the theory about BTC also?

When you only have 1 bitcoin, you are a rich person than the other person who does not know about bitcoin.

Come to China or Hong Kong and you will see 99.9% don't know what is Bitcoin or how to buy it, and you might have even 10 Bitcoins, but most of the people you meet will be more rich than you because they got apartments, which continually increase in price without drops (yes, it can be another topic for discussion about possible real estate bubble there).

If an Apocalypse happen,the only 2 valuable assets will be FOOD and WATER.
Bitcoin is a line of code(or a number),but gold is just a shiny useless metal.Will you eat gold,when you have no food?Will you buy food with gold,when nobody accepts gold?
In a post-apocalypse world,metals like iron will be more valuable than gold,because you could create useful tools with iron.
I get your point about the "fake rich class",but Bitcoin has nothing to do with iPhone or Tesla.
Bitcoin is supposed to be a currency,a medium of exchange,not a consumer product.
Rich people will always be seen as cool badass players that have high social status,it doesn't matter if they own Bitcoins,Tesla stocks,the new iPhone or something else.

Food, water, shelter, sleep, etc. - something what can satisfy basic needs - you are correct. I guess the rest of your comments are also correct but about Bitcoin - yes, it's good medium of exchange, very convenient for international transactions, etc. But when most of the people get $1,000,000 first time, what they do? - for for real estate, some FX, some equity, and might consider minor risky assets (you can check even those "currently rich" crypto millionaires / billionaires). So how do you think why? - do they want to finally get attached to the "true elites" with real wealth? If BTC on that level would be really as good as other assets (i'm not against any nor support any - everything is good for own purposes), why wouldn't they just buy all BTC they can? Then earn, then buy more, and more? And currently / historically / likely in the future the future of country / nation is decided not by the top-crypto holders, but by the ones with significant political influence, or by UHNWI & corporates. - this can be summarised, as they say in Russia "there are 2 types of politicians: 1) politicians who own banks, and 2) politicians who are owned by banks" - effectively it's bankers and their closed circle, not crypto-billionaires who get to decide what will be our future.

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[as.exchange]

i find it not so clear if you are hating the btc users or only the fake rich people because you said that btc will become useless once the time will come that there will be no internet and electeicity but didnt you knew that not all that who use btc are bragging that they rich . there are poor users that are humble and will be humble no matter how nuch they gain from the btc they have and there are also rich people that are investing in btc and if these people brag will you still find that offensive ? no because they are the ones that are trully rich .

As noted above, neither I, neither our team, neither our company hates BTC or any crypto-asset (except for scammers). It's just an example of analogy that can be made based on how things in the world develop.

A piece of code that's is used to represent value, same as paper. You can even use plastic, amber, stones etc as money. What matter is the value it represents and whether the material can't be counterfeited, is fraud-proof, will last long and can really work well as money

I think Bitcoin could be built in such a way that the full ledger can be printed and used completely offline. You'd will need to replicate the online Decentralization Model (or a better model) and features/principles on a physical level and have People with full Physical Ledgers (more like full nodes) verify transactions of participants in their communities.

Yes, and you will end up owning the paper money or plastic or stone with BTC printed. But it won't be that type of asset owned by the "elites", will it?

[as.exchange]

Well you own nothing except numbers on the screen, and your ownership is defined by some points in a plane that is unique and immutable, as defined by the specifications set by Satoshi and other developers themselves. I will not call this "fake rich," as those sitting in piles of numbers on their bank accounts from derivatives also lie within the same principle. Instead, I'll consider them as rich people, like the normal ones who own lots of money from successful businesses since they own something that is highly-valued by other people.

Our perception of value is something complex, and we just magically agree that something is valuable, or has value, like fiat money. If that is the case, then bitcoin is, and will be, valuable too, and if someone owns a lot of it, they are 'rich' because our perception of value says so.

I think you made the best point, which can just cover all other comments and requires no debates. It's just about perception of value, which can be attached to anything any time / or can forcibly change, and people's wealth perception and number-based calculated could immediately change. Some assets have shown to have long-lasting attached perception of wealth (land, gold, factors of production, etc.), while others - we just need to wait and see if it's same (Bitcoin), or it's not, or it will be completely another thing.

I don't think that you can compare bitcoin to iPhone and Tesla. Those two are status symbols (same as expensive watches) simply because when person is wearing it, he sends the "signal" to others that he is successful/rich/whatever. I never saw someone carrying Ledger around their neck to show off. People I know that own bitcoin usually keep it to themselves and don't brag around how much they own, apart of lambo guys that have "BTC" license plate, but that's another story.

General public is still skeptical of bitcoin, unfortunately. Real life is not bitcointalk. If anything, there is more chance that they will ridicule you for owning some than think that you are successful.

Another great point! But I was refering to those with Lambo with BTC place, or the ones that actively show off how much they good (on Twitter, Youtube, etc.) - that's the major point of analogy with iPhone/Tesla/etc. owners (I have nothing against either of those though).

I don't think a bitcoin millionaire is anything different from a normal millionaire. What if you won your millions in the lottery? Or by trading stocks? Orby selling a company? I would make a difference between all of these. In the end money is money. There so many people willing to sell goods like a car or other things for bitcoins.

Oh yes, there's gonna be huge difference between all of those (trader, businessman, lottery winner, etc.). The lottery winner is probably gonna be the most "fake rich" among others But as you correctly said, there's different type of "rich". Rich with 1,000 Bitcoins in many places will be nobody (go to the North of Russia and see yourself), while rich with actual $19,000,000 in the same place is gonna be a different story and probably the mayor would come to meet him in person

Gold will still hold some sort of value in an post apocalyptic scenario, we as humans have always been fascinated by the glitter of gold and I do not think that an apocalypse will remove our love for this kind of things. Minerals will be a debatable case as some might not be of use in the current state of things. If crypto becomes something that you use to show off to your friends for clout, I think it does not change the fact that they are still social climbers, they just changed the medium that represents them but the state that they are in will never change.

Absolutely agree with your points. Gold will be also the most easy "thing" to use as a medium exchange, since there will be no printers to print new USD, nor any computer to mine BTC/verify transactions/send money to someone (apart from yourself).

[as.exchange]

I think it is very bad to say that Bitcoin is "Fake Rich". Even though maybe you yourself also store Bitcoin and like it. Could it be that these are just words to scare, in order to buy as much Bitcoin as possible. But what I know is that Bitcoin is amazing, it has proven to be able to last for a long time even since 10 years ago. So of course it can be said that Bitcoin as a real asset of wealth is not just a fake.

I didn't made any claim, but rather shared potential historical analogy, and happy to hear everyone's opinion here.

[Noctis Connor]

How can you say this words if you think that bitcoin is just a fiction then you should educate your self try to do more research for more about bitcoin and never ever compare anything into liquid materials comparing bitcoin into Iphones? Bitcoin is per to per and it can be use anywhere and now can be use as payment method to those restaurant who uses it. How about those billionaires who already invested in bitcoin? They put their trust into bitcoin to make more profit then they should be faking it too? is that what you meant? People nowadays are luck on educational it is better to do your own research mate just sayin.

[Leviathan.007]

To make it clear, even if you do own a lots bitcoin and you still don't know anything about this project in my on idea you own nothing. Because by owning a piece of named private key and saving it under carpet you won't be rich you should do your own research and know what is the bitcoin. Imagine someone who don't know difference between gold and metal owning 90k of gold what is the point if he doesn't know what is it and how to use it? Knowledge is wealth and power.

[Lucius]

With the current socio-economic development (worsening) of situation, rich are getting richer, poor are getting poorer. Young generations are either trapped in “forever middle class”, or slip to the poverty, or understandingly (or not) work 9-5 (in some places 9-9-6) like in modern slavery…

If we look at things in general, then it really is that way, and it has always been that way - because in order for the rich to be rich, the others must be poor. All my life I have heard that 10% of people in the world control 90% of everything that exists, and 90% of people fight for the remaining 10%. Since the poor constitute the majority, it is their fault that they do not change the system and allow everyone to live a dignified life.

However, the poor (not literally poor) ones want to show off, want to get hot girls, want to get attention from rich guys, want to show they also belong to the elite class. So what they can do? – They pretend to be rich / from higher social class.

Pretending is ultimately just pretending after all, you can’t be part of the elite just if you own the latest smartphone or if you sell a kidney or some other body part to buy a car driven by the elite. Being part of the elite means having an almost inexhaustible source of money which ultimately distinguishes them from what we call ordinary people.

The real question is actually who are these people who want to portray themselves as fake rich people? I personally would never want to (even if I could) stand shoulder to shoulder with most of these people who make up today’s elite.

What is gonna happen once the post-apocalyptic scenarios come true? When/if there will be no electricity, computers, phones, etc.? People will value no US Dollar backed by state promise to pay off debt… your decentralized piece of code will not exist anymore (I do know about some offline-friendly cryptocurrencies)… only gold or natural resources will become valuable again.

I hope you are not one of those who are waiting for the end of the world at any moment, because if some kind of global apocalypse happens there will not be much difference between whether you have great wealth, or you are as poor as a church mouse - of course if you don't believe the rich have a solution to their salvation - something like what was shown in the 2012 movie. It is never wise to keep all the eggs in the same basket, I think that is also true when it comes to BTC.

While I do know many “Bitcoin evangelists” will probably hate me for the words above, but don’t you think that Bitcoin intentionally or unintentionally became the new asset for the “fake rich”?

The “fake rich” paradigm in the context of Bitcoin is completely wrong in my opinion, because anyone can be rich if they own something valuable. A man who owns gold is rich until that gold loses its value or someone steals it - he who owns shares in a company is also rich if the company is successful - but he can lose everything overnight because of a scandal in which that company finds itself.

Bitcoin, as far as we know, came in response to this perverted and rotten financial system that currently exists, and has given people the opportunity to try to be as independent as possible from that system. Bitcoin is for some much more than money, freedom has never had a price.

[dondonk]

If you have a few bitcoins, or a large amount of bitcoins, of course you will not get fake wealth anymore, but you are really rich. The bitcoin price currently hitting $ 19,000 is a fantastic price. all that happens is that you have an invisible asset. real not fake

[Rikafip]

Another great point! But I was refering to those with Lambo with BTC place, or the ones that actively show off how much they good (on Twitter, Youtube, etc.) - that's the major point of analogy with iPhone/Tesla/etc. owners (I have nothing against either of those though).

But those lambo boys got their cars because they made profit from the buying BTC cheap, not because they bought BTC when it was 15,000 USD so they bought Lambo with BTC tags in order to brag. When I see people around me that are buying bitcoin, I see none of those that are buying it for a status symbol. They even hide how much they have.

People often buy iPhone with the money they don't have have in order to impress, but I don't know how would you brag with few thousands of dollars worth bitcoin, and who would even be impressed with that.

So no, I don't think that bitcoin is for the "fake rich".

[as.exchange]

How can you say this words if you think that bitcoin is just a fiction then you should educate your self try to do more research for more about bitcoin and never ever compare anything into liquid materials comparing bitcoin into Iphones? Bitcoin is per to per and it can be use anywhere and now can be use as payment method to those restaurant who uses it. How about those billionaires who already invested in bitcoin? They put their trust into bitcoin to make more profit then they should be faking it too? is that what you meant? People nowadays are luck on educational it is better to do your own research mate just sayin.

We invested in BTC back in 2016, while knew about it from even earlier. Thus believe me education about what is Bitcoin, it's tech side, economic side, investment side, and all others - is there For the point about BTC can be used as a payment method - well I already wrote about that above. As for billionaires who recently invested: 1) have you actually checked their wallet personally to know it's true? 2) you registered in BitcoinTalk since 2016, thus I assume you do know from the history what usually happens soon afterwards such claims by such people / banks / funds / etc. are publicly made. And again, neither I, neither anyone us here is against Bitcoin or cryptocurrencies at all. Just check what is happening in the world, economy, society, how marketing works, and you eventually will notice the (possible) trends.

To make it clear, even if you do own a lots bitcoin and you still don't know anything about this project in my on idea you own nothing. Because by owning a piece of named private key and saving it under carpet you won't be rich you should do your own research and know what is the bitcoin. Imagine someone who don't know difference between gold and metal owning 90k of gold what is the point if he doesn't know what is it and how to use it? Knowledge is wealth and power.

That's very deep and good point though.

But those lambo boys got their cars because they made profit from the buying BTC cheap, not because they bought BTC when it was 15,000 USD so they bought Lambo with BTC tags in order to brag. When I see people around me that are buying bitcoin, I see none of those that are buying it for a status symbol. They even hide how much they have.

People often buy iPhone with the money they don't have have in order to impress, but I don't know how would you brag with few thousands of dollars worth bitcoin, and who would even be impressed with that.

So no, I don't think that bitcoin is for the "fake rich".

Well of course they got the car cuz they sold their BTC. But eventually if BTC is really so-so-so good (from their perspective), why they didn't keep it till it reaches $1M/1BTC? Or they just played the "greater fool theory" pretty well at a time when it permitted?

For sure people won't buy BTC to show off that they have 1-2 BTC, but they will buy it because it will give them access to the status of "rich" as they believe (which could be just "fake rich"?). Just like in the daily life there's a phone (some old Nokia for poor (no offence for anyone) vs. latest Verty for super rich vs. latest iPhone for "fake rich"), there's a car (some old Ford model for poor vs. latest Bugatti / Rolls Royce for super rich vs. Tesla for "fake rich"), and there are assets (lottery tickets for poor vs. direct PE/VC/infrastructure investments for super rich vs. ... ) Still it's just thinking out loud - no claims here or assured statements, as some of the people here noted - value of wealth, and how you measure it - relative thing which will change with time and with each own individual preferences.

[jaysabi]

If you have a few bitcoins, or a large amount of bitcoins, of course you will not get fake wealth anymore, but you are really rich. The bitcoin price currently hitting $ 19,000 is a fantastic price. all that happens is that you have an invisible asset. real not fake

The dollars in your bank account are (for the most part) invisible as well, so I don't see much a difference here.  There are not nearly as many physical dollars in existence as there is electronic dollars in the system, so either way you're relying on faith that what you consider to be a valuable asset that others will as well and accept it as a barter exchange, whether it's bitcoin or dollars.  With bitcoin though, it's not completely invisible as you can transfer the value in the ledger to others who can accept that as payment.

[as.exchange]

If we look at things in general, then it really is that way, and it has always been that way - because in order for the rich to be rich, the others must be poor. All my life I have heard that 10% of people in the world control 90% of everything that exists, and 90% of people fight for the remaining 10%. Since the poor constitute the majority, it is their fault that they do not change the system and allow everyone to live a dignified life.

Yes, I also think so as you noted above.

Pretending is ultimately just pretending after all, you can’t be part of the elite just if you own the latest smartphone or if you sell a kidney or some other body part to buy a car driven by the elite. Being part of the elite means having an almost inexhaustible source of money which ultimately distinguishes them from what we call ordinary people.

The real question is actually who are these people who want to portray themselves as fake rich people? I personally would never want to (even if I could) stand shoulder to shoulder with most of these people who make up today’s elite.

With this point I would disagree. You can be part of the elite with just the latest smartphone or rented things. Check here the latest story: https://www.whatsonweibo.com/the-fake-rich-of-shanghai-peeking-inside-a-wannabe-socialite-wechat-group/

It's about girls in Shanghai who pretended to be rich, to get rich husbands (thus joining the elites eventually). There are similar things in Russia (not so organised though ), and I guess in many other places. That's why people say "fake it till u make it".

People who want to portray themselves as being rich, while not actually being ones - mostly hungry for money, greedy, or just simple people who don't see other ways of improving their lives. Just with regular social / life pressure - people are stimulated to show success and rewarded for doing so (YouTubers, Instagramers, TikTokers, etc.), and eventually some of them do turn out to become actually rich and go to buy houses, cars, some shops, restaurants, etc.

I hope you are not one of those who are waiting for the end of the world at any moment, because if some kind of global apocalypse happens there will not be much difference between whether you have great wealth, or you are as poor as a church mouse - of course if you don't believe the rich have a solution to their salvation - something like what was shown in the 2012 movie. It is never wise to keep all the eggs in the same basket, I think that is also true when it comes to BTC.

Don't worry I am definitely not waiting for the apocalypse. And while the elites might have some "Plans Z" for such case, with the end of the world, as you said correctly - it's unlikely there's anything what can save anyone.

The “fake rich” paradigm in the context of Bitcoin is completely wrong in my opinion, because anyone can be rich if they own something valuable. A man who owns gold is rich until that gold loses its value or someone steals it - he who owns shares in a company is also rich if the company is successful - but he can lose everything overnight because of a scandal in which that company finds itself.

Bitcoin, as far as we know, came in response to this perverted and rotten financial system that currently exists, and has given people the opportunity to try to be as independent as possible from that system. Bitcoin is for some much more than money, freedom has never had a price.

Very agree with the first part, but haven't some assets had proven historically that they are here for a very long time? With Bitcoin - we just need to wait and see how it goes in the next 100-1000 years just like we saw with gold. Bitcoin indeed can heal the current rotten financial system, or it can get crashed when someone thinks "that's enough" and then again the old elites just continue with their own old pace and things get back to where they were (or probably get worse).

[Dragonfund]

Are you for real, what do have say about institutional investors who have invest heavily on bitcoin? They believe in bitcoin and its revolutionary concepts, they don't want to depend and hope on centralized system that's why they have their share of wealth and investment into Bitcoin and altcoins.
Take it or leave it, Bitcoin is just as good as messiah who gave many individuals an opportunity to show the world the less previlage their power of decentralization to wealth.
Many of today top reach people started earlier, that's why they have been at the top and don't want to step down. $3k to $19k is super amazing as investment than keep money on fixed deposits with shit profits.

[Fortify]

People will always try to show off wealth and try to "fake it 'til you make it" has been around for a long time. I wouldn't say that Bitcoin is especially popular for this purpose, because it is hard to show off a "piece of code" compared to a loan spent to buy a flashy car or the latest piece of fashionable clothes that they can show around town. Either way it is better to ignore such trivial displays of wealth and concentrate on improving your own life.

[Shasha80]

Go ahead if you think Bitcoin is for fake rich, but for me Bitcoin can make my finances even more. In fact, I can buy some items
from the profit I made from Bitcoin, so Bitcoin gives me real wealth. In fact I am also sure that there are many people who have
the same opinion as me, therefore many people are competing to collect as much Bitcoin as possible. Because they believe the wealth
that Bitcoin will give is real.

[Fredomago]

Go ahead if you think Bitcoin is for fake rich, but for me Bitcoin can make my finances even more. In fact, I can buy some items
from the profit I made from Bitcoin, so Bitcoin gives me real wealth. In fact I am also sure that there are many people who have
the same opinion as me, therefore many people are competing to collect as much Bitcoin as possible. Because they believe the wealth
that Bitcoin will give is real.

It depends from how you interpret this matter, Bitcoin is an opportunities to those who understand it well, while for some it's just a fake wealth maybe becaus of volatility and it's behavior that it can go down within the glimpse of an eye. By following you with your sentement, it helps you in your financial state so it's useful.

People will always try to show off wealth and try to "fake it 'til you make it" has been around for a long time. I wouldn't say that Bitcoin is especially popular for this purpose, because it is hard to show off a "piece of code" compared to a loan spent to buy a flashy car or the latest piece of fashionable clothes that they can show around town. Either way it is better to ignore such trivial displays of wealth and concentrate on improving your own life.

Yeah right, better to focus with your life on how to improve it than to care about things that won't help you, conserve your energy and focus to whatever you think that beneficial to you.

[chanler]

Maybe it is just a number, not seen and not touchable, however, the numbers show really what we have and we will also be able to make it true for us when cashing out. I do not mind about considered as a rich man or not, about entering a high class or not. this is just what we have and what we can do with this. As long as this is earning for us, why not.
Some people may use Bitci as their power of wealth. It is also not their fault because that is the fact they own it and be able to cash it out to make them rich. however, if it is still in Bitcoin, this is a code and digiatl. Not all people will know about it,

[Broly46]

If you own bitcoin you don't even own a line of code. You own a number, that's it.

 

Z

Ironic, the fake rich, looking at the number, the number won’t lie, people can write a wall of text of lies, yet they don’t want to trust the number won’t lie, because they’re so biased, they rather believe in story than a globally recognised parameter of rich: the number won’t lies, the current number of bitcoin is standing at 19k it’s not gonna lie the current gold value is standing at 1930, it’s not gonna lie, the current blue chip value is standing at 30,000 it’s not gonna lie, yup be mature and accept the numbers.

Well here we talk about globally accepted and consensus-based reference for intrinsic value of asset - market price. While it surely gives indication of your current net worth, it doesn't mean you are rich though. If today you hold 1,000 of Bitcoin and tomorrow every single country bans it and makes it illegal to hold Bitcoin, then you cannot even use it as collateral for getting loans. With gold (for example) such scenario is unlikely as making it illegal would mean collapse of all central banks (not the case with BTC), would mean end of production of important electronic components (not the case with BTC), collapse of supply chains and monetary systems (if Bitcoin dissapears tomorrow only small % of people will actually care, as most of the population still doesn't even know what that is). That's why doesn't that show you the similarity with Tesla / iPhone - small group of people worked together to hype it to make it as indication of own status and wealth, while in reality the truly wealthy ones stay with traditional side.

===
It has been a blessing to a lot of gold bug didn’t listen to those non sense stock market create real value story, and these gold bugs hodl their gold like a religions through the entire market cycle, and their reward is so sweet, they watch their value goes up which is re best rewards ever it doesn’t need a lot of fancy praising and attention given to them on the social network, they enjoy the reward alone and on he dark so they’re extremely aware of social event which sound very fake to them just some wannabe rich who get a lot of wealth suddenly and making a lot of noise to impress some fast women fast car and fast house. We are the gold bugs, watching all the blue chip mega rich, spending money like a drug addict over the past decade and turn their once very famous very perceived rich to a dumpster red chip that the companies eventually goes burst and get boot off the bourse.

Yeah yeah the perceived “real rich” business owner very famous on the social network very political influential very high smv very successful, just over ten year they turn from having everything to have long nothing but a bloke, such a “real rich” to be ironically.

Too bad, the gold bugs are too very smart they had know ahead of time all this so called perceived “real rich” and their little cat and mouse game, they decide to not play this stupid game of the “real rich”, they do not crave for attention, they do not crave the recognition, they do not need to tell everybody they’re rich all over the place, the only thing they care most about is looking their numbers goes up, it’s very frugal, very real, very inspiring, and very encouraging number to them, their life is totally out of the social norms, they don’t need those noise to tell them they’re really the greatest person on be earth.

===

[michellee]

When you only have 1 bitcoin, you are a rich person than the other person who does not know about bitcoin.

Come to China or Hong Kong and you will see 99.9% don't know what is Bitcoin or how to buy it, and you might have even 10 Bitcoins, but most of the people you meet will be more rich than you because they got apartments, which continually increase in price without drops (yes, it can be another topic for discussion about possible real estate bubble there).

If you buy me a ticket plus all accommodation to China or Hong Kong, I will go there

I guess that is happening in many countries, not just in China or Hong Kong because people do not think about bitcoin or other new things around them. Having bitcoin really means for me, and I don't care if they are rich than me because I have my life, and as long as I can feel enough for my life, that will be good for me.

[as.exchange]

Are you for real, what do have say about institutional investors who have invest heavily on bitcoin? They believe in bitcoin and its revolutionary concepts, they don't want to depend and hope on centralized system that's why they have their share of wealth and investment into Bitcoin and altcoins.
Take it or leave it, Bitcoin is just as good as messiah who gave many individuals an opportunity to show the world the less previlage their power of decentralization to wealth.
Many of today top reach people started earlier, that's why they have been at the top and don't want to step down. $3k to $19k is super amazing as investment than keep money on fixed deposits with shit profits.

Well you mentioned several parts, so I will answer part by part
1) Institutional investors is not a good benchmark, because you can check what happened with LTCM, Lehman Brothers, and many many other bankrupt funds
2) They don't invest in asset because they believe in it. They think they can profit from it and that's all. Yes, some people might believe, but very few of them will direct institutional money simply because they believe in it
3) They say they believe - doesn't mean they do. It can simply be market manipulation - check the history of BTC before when GS said it's gonna go up, and their subsidiary in EU was selling all clients' BTC, and after that market crashed
4) The above points refer to the "Greater Fool Theory" - buy it if you believe there will be fools who will buy from you later @ higher prices
5) If you believe $3k to $19k is amazing, what you can say about the following?:

- Novavax $NVAX +3030%
- Nio $NIO +1030%
- Arcturus $ARCT +1025%
- Overstock $OSTK +765%
- Fiverr $FVRR +760%
- Moderna $MRNA +728%
- Plug Power $PLUG +700%
- Celsius $CELH +682%
- Seres $MCRB +660%
- Tesla $TSLA +650%
- Bitcoin $BTC +182% over same period

6) If you believe Bitcoin will change your life / global economy, then you should believe also that e-cars will do so, vaccine by Moderna will do so, etc. etc.

People will always try to show off wealth and try to "fake it 'til you make it" has been around for a long time. I wouldn't say that Bitcoin is especially popular for this purpose, because it is hard to show off a "piece of code" compared to a loan spent to buy a flashy car or the latest piece of fashionable clothes that they can show around town. Either way it is better to ignore such trivial displays of wealth and concentrate on improving your own life.

You are absolutely correct. I didn't mean that BTC is made for showing off and making someone "fake rich", the point was maybe it became so popular, because it gave hope to those who are "wanna be rich". Of course not 100% only because of this, but I think it could have played on this global trend?

Go ahead if you think Bitcoin is for fake rich, but for me Bitcoin can make my finances even more. In fact, I can buy some items
from the profit I made from Bitcoin, so Bitcoin gives me real wealth. In fact I am also sure that there are many people who have
the same opinion as me, therefore many people are competing to collect as much Bitcoin as possible. Because they believe the wealth
that Bitcoin will give is real.

Yet if Bitcoin is for "old elite rich" why do you sell it to cash out? Just keep holding BTC forever, but you eventually exit (maybe partially or completely - doesn't matter) to fix your profit in the "real rich" measure - USD / gold / real estate / stocks / consumables. That is your final goal, rather than collect BTC and sit on it...

It depends from how you interpret this matter, Bitcoin is an opportunities to those who understand it well, while for some it's just a fake wealth maybe becaus of volatility and it's behavior that it can go down within the glimpse of an eye. By following you with your sentement, it helps you in your financial state so it's useful.

Yeah right, better to focus with your life on how to improve it than to care about things that won't help you, conserve your energy and focus to whatever you think that beneficial to you.

Yes, mostly agree with you. It's about how you personally perceive it and use it. But the end point for those who are "wanna be rich" is still having USD account even after profiting from BTC. USD / gold / EUR / estate / etc. is the end destination to be rich for most of those people, isn't it? So if you look at it from another side - BTC is a transmission tool to uplift your (not you personally, but overall ) social class. Again, like with those with iPhone, Tesla, case in China/HK, etc. - they use those tools to uplift social class and not seam too poor, so they can eventually get to know more rich people, get more opportunities, and eventually hope to transit to "old elites".

It has been a blessing to a lot of gold bug didn’t listen to those non sense stock market create real value story, and these gold bugs hodl their gold like a religions through the entire market cycle, and their reward is so sweet, they watch their value goes up which is re best rewards ever it doesn’t need a lot of fancy praising and attention given to them on the social network, they enjoy the reward alone and on he dark so they’re extremely aware of social event which sound very fake to them just some wannabe rich who get a lot of wealth suddenly and making a lot of noise to impress some fast women fast car and fast house. We are the gold bugs, watching all the blue chip mega rich, spending money like a drug addict over the past decade and turn their once very famous very perceived rich to a dumpster red chip that the companies eventually goes burst and get boot off the bourse.

Yeah yeah the perceived “real rich” business owner very famous on the social network very political influential very high smv very successful, just over ten year they turn from having everything to have long nothing but a bloke, such a “real rich” to be ironically.

Too bad, the gold bugs are too very smart they had know ahead of time all this so called perceived “real rich” and their little cat and mouse game, they decide to not play this stupid game of the “real rich”, they do not crave for attention, they do not crave the recognition, they do not need to tell everybody they’re rich all over the place, the only thing they care most about is looking their numbers goes up, it’s very frugal, very real, very inspiring, and very encouraging number to them, their life is totally out of the social norms, they don’t need those noise to tell them they’re really the greatest person on be earth.

You depicted the current system and historical trend very sadly, yet very correctly. It's also about how you view it. We can blame socio-economic system to be rotten and bad, others can take advantage of it. Same is happening with cryptos and any other area. You are always "in" and use it / benefit from it, or "out" and can blame it for being unfair or bad. Same will be with Bitcoin after 50 years - new generations will likely blame all of us and forum members for being explotive manipulators who took control to the extend we could during the early days of Bitcoin and crypto currencies.