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Author Topic: A loaded Ten bitcoin Casascius silver gilt coin in orig. case + some brass 1s  (Read 972 times)
thoughtfan
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December 16, 2020, 06:27:17 PM
Last edit: December 18, 2020, 04:28:50 PM by thoughtfan
Merited by Heisenberg_Hunter (1), anonymousminer (1)
 #1

I gave heaps of Casascius One-bitcoin physical coins away back in the day and also a small no. of 'silver tens'. Now with the new ATHs, in larger numbers than ever before, friends are coming back to me asking for help in selling* part of their Bitcoin, and this time, including one of the silver tens. To-date over the years, having not had much joy in selling the physical coins, I have helped my friends peel them and securely move the various coins from them to hardware wallets then to exchange (which was also the fate of mine when I lived off my bitcoin until I ran out in 2014/15!)

But now, having heard rumours of prices that may be obtained for them, here's me logging back into an account I thought I'd erased in order to see whether there is genuine interest.

The loaded Casascius Silver 10 Bitcoin piece with Gold ₿ is going to be auctioned in a 10 day auction after the new year and in the meantime, getting it graded for physical condition as well as good photos and giving time to think of ways of reaching potential buyers so we've got as best chance at the auction being a true price discovery. Currently, the idea is to have a starting price of 10.05 btc and to have a 12.5 btc reserve, below which the seller will have the option to decline.

In the event that it doesn't reach the reserve and the owner declines the highest below-reserve bid, her plan is to peel it in order to frame and keep the physical coin herself.

Regarding the Casascius brass 1s, I know of four coins straight that my friends would sell and likely more if the price was right so I will start by auctioning the first of those in the next days.

As for background, these were all bought by me directly from Mike Caldwell in the few months after I joined this forum (the date of which you can check out).

It's strange to be posting here again after so many years so greetings to anyone who remembers me from back then  Cheesy

*as an aside, the experiment - which was part of the purpose of giving so many away - was to see if being given some, owning some, would pique their interest such that people decided to learn about this amazing technology / phenomenon and discover its wonders as I had. The outcome of the experiment is that hardly anyone did to-date. They know as little about it now as they did then and are only interested in getting some money for it. That aspect is slightly disappointing but not that I gave them away because I know had I not given them away, I would likely have spent them myself anyway so at least it is my friends that are benefiting from the btc, not whoever the strangers are who may be currently selling or hodling those I sold Grin

Edit 2: Largely re-written to reflect where we've got to after some very useful feedback below and in PMs.
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davidgdg
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December 17, 2020, 05:49:53 AM
 #2

I’ll be very interested to see what happens with the 10 !!!

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December 17, 2020, 12:22:12 PM
 #3

I am shopping for a silver gilt loaded 1 casascius coin. Please PM me
thoughtfan
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December 17, 2020, 01:26:13 PM
Last edit: December 18, 2020, 10:39:58 AM by thoughtfan
 #4

OK,

Thank you for your interest, both here and more substantially, by PM.

So far, it is mainly the silver ten that has attracted interest - hence changing the Subject. However, nobody has offered a price yet.

So what I propose to do, once I get some photos, is to hold a ****non-binding auction****** to discover a price someone would be willing to pay then to ask the owner if that is enough for her to be prepared to let it go loaded (as opposed to peeling it for the crypto value and keeping the physical peeled coin).

In the meantime, there are still the ones... Smiley

*****N.B. PLEASE NOTE IT IS NO LONGER MY INTENTION (AS PER THE EDITED POST ABOVE AND PER LATER POSTS) TO GO FOR A NON-BINDING AUCTION
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December 17, 2020, 01:38:53 PM
Merited by anonymousminer (1)
 #5

OK,

Thank you for your interest, both here and more substantially, by PM.

So far, it is mainly the silver ten that has attracted interest - hence changing the Subject. However, nobody has offered a price yet.

So what I propose to do, once I get some photos, is to hold a non-binding auction to discover a price someone would be willing to pay then to ask the owner if that is enough for her to be prepared to let it go loaded (as opposed to peeling it for the crypto value and keeping the physical peeled coin).

In the meantime, there are still the ones... Smiley

First, I am interested in the 10 price dependent.

Second, a non binding auction sounds like a huge waste of time and Internet.  Not enough people will bid, knowing it is non binding, to get a true reflection of the market price.  Tell your friend to either do a WTS with the price she is willing to accept or to put on her big girl pants and do an auction starting at loaded value.

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thoughtfan
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December 17, 2020, 04:13:14 PM
 #6

OK,

Thank you for your interest, both here and more substantially, by PM.

So far, it is mainly the silver ten that has attracted interest - hence changing the Subject. However, nobody has offered a price yet.

So what I propose to do, once I get some photos, is to hold a non-binding auction to discover a price someone would be willing to pay then to ask the owner if that is enough for her to be prepared to let it go loaded (as opposed to peeling it for the crypto value and keeping the physical peeled coin).

In the meantime, there are still the ones... Smiley

First, I am interested in the 10 price dependent.

Second, a non binding auction sounds like a huge waste of time and Internet.  Not enough people will bid, knowing it is non binding, to get a true reflection of the market price.  Tell your friend to either do a WTS with the price she is willing to accept or to put on her big girl pants and do an auction starting at loaded value.

Thank you too for your interest although I think your assessment is a bit harsh! As far as I recollect, it is normal, for instance in car auctions in the UK that the seller after the auction but before payment can withdraw. They just have to pay the auctioneer and they lose some credibility. I know from experience it's a downer for the 'winning' bidder but it's just life!

From ebay.com "A non-binding bid is a bid that shows a buyer's interest in purchasing an item, but it doesn't create a formal contract between the buyer and the seller. All bids made in the Real Estate and eBay Motors vehicles categories are considered non-binding."

I'm not saying we should just accept the standards of other auction processes but clearly, if it's standard practice for certain high-value item categories for ebay, I'm not entirely out on a limb here. We're talking about a lot of money here so I don't think it is unreasonable that both parties after the auction have a day or two to be sure they're happy before proceeding. If that is unacceptable to you then I'm sorry but that is what I will try. If people don't bid because it's non-binding and there's hardly anything over face-value offered then it's their loss. The owner will get to go with Plan A - which is to peel it and use it.
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December 17, 2020, 04:18:49 PM
 #7

OK,

Thank you for your interest, both here and more substantially, by PM.

So far, it is mainly the silver ten that has attracted interest - hence changing the Subject. However, nobody has offered a price yet.

So what I propose to do, once I get some photos, is to hold a non-binding auction to discover a price someone would be willing to pay then to ask the owner if that is enough for her to be prepared to let it go loaded (as opposed to peeling it for the crypto value and keeping the physical peeled coin).

In the meantime, there are still the ones... Smiley

First, I am interested in the 10 price dependent.

Second, a non binding auction sounds like a huge waste of time and Internet.  Not enough people will bid, knowing it is non binding, to get a true reflection of the market price.  Tell your friend to either do a WTS with the price she is willing to accept or to put on her big girl pants and do an auction starting at loaded value.

Thank you too for your interest although I think your assessment is a bit harsh! As far as I recollect, it is normal, for instance in car auctions in the UK that the seller after the auction but before payment can withdraw. They just have to pay the auctioneer and they lose some credibility. I know from experience it's a downer for the 'winning' bidder but it's just life!

From ebay.com "A non-binding bid is a bid that shows a buyer's interest in purchasing an item, but it doesn't create a formal contract between the buyer and the seller. All bids made in the Real Estate and eBay Motors vehicles categories are considered non-binding."

I'm not saying we should just accept the standards of other auction processes but clearly, if it's standard practice for certain high-value item categories for ebay, I'm not entirely out on a limb here. We're talking about a lot of money here so I don't think it is unreasonable that both parties after the auction have a day or two to be sure they're happy before proceeding. If that is unacceptable to you then I'm sorry but that is what I will try. If people don't bid because it's non-binding and there's hardly anything over face-value offered then it's their loss. The owner will get to go with Plan A - which is to peel it and use it.

The point is you will not get a REAL assessment because it's not a REAL auction, plain and simple.  ....and having an auction where either party can consider it "non binding" is absolutely ridiculous.  As LC said, a waste of time and internet.
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December 17, 2020, 04:19:38 PM
Merited by TookDk (1), anonymousminer (1)
 #8

"A non-binding bid"?!  
That won't work around here.  Cheesy

Fix it...start a legit auction.  Roll Eyes

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December 17, 2020, 06:03:54 PM
Merited by owlcatz (1)
 #9

OK,

Thank you for your interest, both here and more substantially, by PM.

So far, it is mainly the silver ten that has attracted interest - hence changing the Subject. However, nobody has offered a price yet.

So what I propose to do, once I get some photos, is to hold a non-binding auction to discover a price someone would be willing to pay then to ask the owner if that is enough for her to be prepared to let it go loaded (as opposed to peeling it for the crypto value and keeping the physical peeled coin).

In the meantime, there are still the ones... Smiley

First, I am interested in the 10 price dependent.

Second, a non binding auction sounds like a huge waste of time and Internet.  Not enough people will bid, knowing it is non binding, to get a true reflection of the market price.  Tell your friend to either do a WTS with the price she is willing to accept or to put on her big girl pants and do an auction starting at loaded value.

Thank you too for your interest although I think your assessment is a bit harsh! As far as I recollect, it is normal, for instance in car auctions in the UK that the seller after the auction but before payment can withdraw. They just have to pay the auctioneer and they lose some credibility. I know from experience it's a downer for the 'winning' bidder but it's just life!

From ebay.com "A non-binding bid is a bid that shows a buyer's interest in purchasing an item, but it doesn't create a formal contract between the buyer and the seller. All bids made in the Real Estate and eBay Motors vehicles categories are considered non-binding."

I'm not saying we should just accept the standards of other auction processes but clearly, if it's standard practice for certain high-value item categories for ebay, I'm not entirely out on a limb here. We're talking about a lot of money here so I don't think it is unreasonable that both parties after the auction have a day or two to be sure they're happy before proceeding. If that is unacceptable to you then I'm sorry but that is what I will try. If people don't bid because it's non-binding and there's hardly anything over face-value offered then it's their loss. The owner will get to go with Plan A - which is to peel it and use it.

Here's the thing though, this isn't a car auction in the UK nor is it ebay.  While you may not find a list of rules there are some general unwritten rules most everyone uses.  There is no section on "non binding bids" as that is stupid as fuck and no one here does it.  You are free to set up your auction with non binding bids but I guarantee you the people who can afford to pay 12+ btc for your friend's coin will not be bidding in a non binding auction.


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thoughtfan
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December 17, 2020, 06:15:11 PM
 #10

OK, I hear you. You with your high activity, merit and trust scores are clearly representative of the views around here.

Nevertheless, the rarer the item, the less idea one can have of how much of the potential market I would be reaching here. If I'm auctioning a mid-priced common item on ebay, I can start at zero and be confident the market will find me a fair price. I haven't been able find examples of recent prior sales to get an idea of its worth. Furthermore, I have no idea what proportion of the number of views this thread has had is potentially interested and has the means to pay this kind of money. I do get your criticism of my proposal but can also see that a binding auction could end up being an expensive way of finding out there's hardly any demand (or that those potentially interested don't hang out here frequently enough to participate).

For you who have spoken, clearly you're not interested in a non-binding auction and as I said, I suspect you speak for more than yourselves. But if it were a complete 'waste of time and internet' then it wouldn't be the norm in how Ebay works for certain high-value item categories. I accept it isn't the modus operandi around here but that doesn't make it pointless. I don't have the photos yet but at present I'm inclined to proceed anyway in the way I have proposed and anyone is free to refrain from participating if you feel that strongly about it.
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December 17, 2020, 06:30:40 PM
 #11

OK, I hear you. You with your high activity, merit and trust scores are clearly representative of the views around here.

Nevertheless, the rarer the item, the less idea one can have of how much of the potential market I would be reaching here. If I'm auctioning a mid-priced common item on ebay, I can start at zero and be confident the market will find me a fair price. I haven't been able find examples of recent prior sales to get an idea of its worth. Furthermore, I have no idea what proportion of the number of views this thread has had is potentially interested and has the means to pay this kind of money. I do get your criticism of my proposal but can also see that a binding auction could end up being an expensive way of finding out there's hardly any demand (or that those potentially interested don't hang out here frequently enough to participate).

For you who have spoken, clearly you're not interested in a non-binding auction and as I said, I suspect you speak for more than yourselves. But if it were a complete 'waste of time and internet' then it wouldn't be the norm in how Ebay works for certain high-value item categories. I accept it isn't the modus operandi around here but that doesn't make it pointless. I don't have the photos yet but at present I'm inclined to proceed anyway in the way I have proposed and anyone is free to refrain from participating if you feel that strongly about it.

If the coin is in mint state, I reckon she could get 12-13 btc. If it is in a state other than mint state it would be worth less depending on the condition.  The very first thing that needs to happen is some quality high res photos.

If she wants the money soon, put on the big girl pants and run a 10-14 day auction starting at 10 btc.  No bullshit hidden reserve.  No non binding bids.  I would imagine she gets 12-13 btc for the coin with this method.  Now before you run off and start this auction, you need to figure out how you are going to actually complete this transaction.  This is not a throw it in a box and give it to Tom at the local post office type of sale.  Honestly, your friend would benefit greatly from enlisting help from one of the several trusted users here who offer services to handle such transactions.  

If she can wait, list it for sale here at 13 btc firm and wait.

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December 17, 2020, 07:19:18 PM
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OK, I hear you. You with your high activity, merit and trust scores are clearly representative of the views around here.

Nevertheless, the rarer the item, the less idea one can have of how much of the potential market I would be reaching here. If I'm auctioning a mid-priced common item on ebay, I can start at zero and be confident the market will find me a fair price. I haven't been able find examples of recent prior sales to get an idea of its worth. Furthermore, I have no idea what proportion of the number of views this thread has had is potentially interested and has the means to pay this kind of money. I do get your criticism of my proposal but can also see that a binding auction could end up being an expensive way of finding out there's hardly any demand (or that those potentially interested don't hang out here frequently enough to participate).

For you who have spoken, clearly you're not interested in a non-binding auction and as I said, I suspect you speak for more than yourselves. But if it were a complete 'waste of time and internet' then it wouldn't be the norm in how Ebay works for certain high-value item categories. I accept it isn't the modus operandi around here but that doesn't make it pointless. I don't have the photos yet but at present I'm inclined to proceed anyway in the way I have proposed and anyone is free to refrain from participating if you feel that strongly about it.

If the coin is in mint state, I reckon she could get 12-13 btc. If it is in a state other than mint state it would be worth less depending on the condition.  The very first thing that needs to happen is some quality high res photos.

If she wants the money soon, put on the big girl pants and run a 10-14 day auction starting at 10 btc.  No bullshit hidden reserve.  No non binding bids.  I would imagine she gets 12-13 btc for the coin with this method.  Now before you run off and start this auction, you need to figure out how you are going to actually complete this transaction.  This is not a throw it in a box and give it to Tom at the local post office type of sale.  Honestly, your friend would benefit greatly from enlisting help from one of the several trusted users here who offer services to handle such transactions.  

If she can wait, list it for sale here at 13 btc firm and wait.

Thank you very much for your valued feedback on this. I shall pass on about high-res photos and will ask her to do daylight and multiple-angles so any scratches show up. If someone would like to PM me with any offers of assistance with it along with what you would want for your services, that would be greatly appreciated. I had already reached out to minerjones who from a little research appears to have a good reputation here and who has offered to escrow - should there be a sale. Re. transport / handover, I had assumed the buyer would be happy to fly to London to pick it up in person but I'm open to other ideas.

I will admit that your 'stupid idea' comment had me determined not to be bullied into doing it your way and your 'guarantee' that nobody would participate had me suspicious the regulars here may be playing some back-channel dubious practices during auctions behind the scenes to dupe the newbies into selling too cheap. But your constructive post is helping me toward doing things in a more conventional way for selling here. We'll see. I'll see where we are tomorrow.
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December 18, 2020, 08:55:03 AM
 #13

I'll echo LC's comments about non-binding not being useful. If participants don't have skin in the game, the results won't be tied to reality. Look at how people treat free bets or play tokens vs. real money in gambling apps.
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December 18, 2020, 09:24:56 AM
 #14

I agree a non binding Auction is a waste of time.

I don't think you always have to start the Auction at peel value though. Start at the absolute minimum you would accept for the coin, and see what happens. If its too much for everyone it doesn't sell, which is fine. If one person is willing you get that price, or maybe lots of people want it and it goes up.

All that being said, only a crazy person would post a 10BTC Silver Cas. Meet up, with someone who can tell a fake, in a secure location, is the only way it could possibly work IMHO. I passed on a 5BTC Cas/Lealana hybrid recently that sold for peel value, purely because it's way too much uninsured value to post ( you can't insure physical bitcoin).

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December 18, 2020, 10:05:44 AM
 #15

Thanks for your feedback all. Helpful in taking small reasoned steps toward something that will work for all.

OK, so here's the plan:

We've found a way of taking out the urgency, that being that someone will lend her what she is intending to sell at today's prices to be repaid in btc whenever the physical coin is sold (or if it's peeled).

So we're thinking maybe a 10 day auction after the new year and in the meantime, getting it graded for physical condition as well as good photos and giving time to think of ways of reaching potential buyers so we've got as best chance at it being a true price discovery.

After consideration, we've abandoned the non-binding auction idea and instead will start at 10.05 and have a non-hidden 12.5 btc reserve, below which the seller will have the option to decline.

Re. sending by mail, I had expected for the silver ten that the buyer would be prepared to fly to London to pick it up. However, it has also been suggested that a trusted courier from here could do the flying if the buyer doesn't want to. All worth considering beforehand, thanks, and now we've bought some time to work out those details in advance.

In the meantime, I'm going to get some pics today of the first of the 1btc pieces and I'll see if at least one of these can be on auction in the next days, again with a something-over-face starting price and a tbd non-hidden reserve.

Thank you all for your interest. Even if it sounds like I'm not appreciating the browbeating I'm getting for my non-standard proposals, it's miles better than putting up a post and having no response at all (which I seem to recollect was the case in 2014 when I had a load that I would have happily sold for anything over face). I will update the OP with the latest decision.
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December 18, 2020, 10:49:09 AM
 #16

Talking of grading, does anyone know which, if any, London grading / encapsulation services would be acceptable to potentially global bidders?
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December 18, 2020, 12:27:27 PM
 #17

Talking of grading, does anyone know which, if any, London grading / encapsulation services would be acceptable to potentially global bidders?

Sadly no UK grading houses are interested in physical cryptos (at least according to the last time I checked).
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December 18, 2020, 03:10:36 PM
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Thank you both, I spoke to Coin Grading Services this morning who said they no longer do authentication & encapsulation. I'll keep looking but my guess is we may need to just go with photos although I am open to suggestions.
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December 18, 2020, 10:01:18 PM
Merited by krogothmanhattan (1)
 #19

I’m actually not a great fan of capsulation. I had it done for some actual coins in a collection I have, and I actually regret it. You lose the chance to hold these objects in your hand which is part of the joy of owning them.

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December 18, 2020, 10:25:38 PM
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I’m actually not a great fan of capsulation. I had it done for some actual coins in a collection I have, and I actually regret it. You lose the chance to hold these objects in your hand which is part of the joy of owning them.
Depends whether you are a fan of scuffs and tarnish on your coin Wink

But yes there is something special about the coin outside of its capsule, where you can see the finer details and really see the beauty of the gold plated rim (on the 2013 Gilt)

24" PCI-E cables with 16AWG wires and stripped ends - great for server PSU mods, best prices https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563461
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