Are Bitcoin's fees overpriced?

[stompix]

2. When using desktop wallet, I use @bitcoin_fees on Twitter to check for a Sat/B that suits me. I don't generally need instant confirmation when buying stuff with BTC.

You made me curious about that, and after satisfying my curiosity a few other questions popped up, the most important of them being: "Why would you do that?"
Why would you pay your fees according to a bot on Twitter that posts hourly data, especially since you've said you're doing this from your desktop. I would have understood if it were for mobile, low data cap, but for desktop? Try https://mempool.space, it shows you the current data, not what was 50 minutes ago,it shows you were your tx would stand in the block, I don't think it's anything more accurate that it around here.

Just take a look at the differences:

Bitcoin TX Fee Rates@bitcoin_fees 32 m
Next Block Fee: 15.1 sat/byte

In those 32 minutes, the mempool has changed, the lowest fee in the last block was 6sat/b.
Also, "Week Fee: 3.0 sat/byte" lol, like there could be a service to predict what's happening 7 days in the future.

Strange thinking, because $5 is only 1% of $500, and you consider it an expensive fee? Of course, everyone would always pay $0.10 for each transaction, but this is not possible because everything has its price, including Bitcoin transactions. Just look at the fees at Western Union, or if you send money between two different banks - not to mention that such transfers can take several working days.

7E to send 1000 euros from the EU to Lesotho, that's below 0.7% and it's cash in minutes Banks and even WU have evolved, the tales from 10 years ago are no longer valid, BTC and its users need to switch to LN to dare to compare. Besides, as I was telling Kakmakr in that post, how many times do you send money abroad, is that the way BTC is going, becoming a remit tool?

[3meek]

When transferring BTC from a personal wallet, the cost of the fee depends on the mempool... Now mempool is not busy, and transaction cost is about $0.1... But when transferring BTC from exchanges commission is unreasonably expensive regardless of mempool... For example on Binance it is 0.0005 BTC or about $12.5 at the moment...

[kryptqnick]

Bitcoin's rise in popularity has congested the blockchain network over the past days. The pioneer cryptocurrency has seen a surge in price, as well as, network fees. Last time I've checked, fees where well above $10 per transaction. That's a lot for moving minuscule amounts of Bitcoin across the blockchain. Yet, fees aren't as high as they were back in December 2017. Depending on Bitcoin's price relative to Fiat, fees can either be overpriced or all the other way around. Bitcoin's limited block size will only make matters worse over the long term. There's still the Lightning Network, but it has many flaws that would put your funds at risk.

Do you think that Bitcoin's fees are overpriced right now? If not, why? Will it stay like this forever? Will people adopt the Lightning Network more thoroughly as fees soar on the main chain? Your input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance

Fees are being jumpy, and those above $10 are definitely very high. But you're right that at least it's not as bad as it used to be. The fees should be seen in perspective, relative to the total amount. Paying $10 to transfer $1k is totally okay by me, but $10 for a total of $100 is unacceptable. Even if the fees rise, there will still be cases in which the fees are reasonable (for big purchases/transactions), but it's already very problematic for small ones. The LN is a work in progress, and I think we should adopt something else (for instance, allow zero confirmation transactions but prosecute cheaters) if we are to see Bitcoin truly functioning as money.

[jademaxsuy]

Bitcoin's rise in popularity has congested the blockchain network over the past days. The pioneer cryptocurrency has seen a surge in price, as well as, network fees. Last time I've checked, fees where well above $10 per transaction. That's a lot for moving minuscule amounts of Bitcoin across the blockchain. Yet, fees aren't as high as they were back in December 2017. Depending on Bitcoin's price relative to Fiat, fees can either be overpriced or all the other way around. Bitcoin's limited block size will only make matters worse over the long term. There's still the Lightning Network, but it has many flaws that would put your funds at risk.

Do you think that Bitcoin's fees are overpriced right now? If not, why? Will it stay like this forever? Will people adopt the Lightning Network more thoroughly as fees soar on the main chain? Your input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance

Fees are being jumpy, and those above $10 are definitely very high. But you're right that at least it's not as bad as it used to be. The fees should be seen in perspective, relative to the total amount. Paying $10 to transfer $1k is totally okay by me, but $10 for a total of $100 is unacceptable. Even if the fees rise, there will still be cases in which the fees are reasonable (for big purchases/transactions), but it's already very problematic for small ones. The LN is a work in progress, and I think we should adopt something else (for instance, allow zero confirmation transactions but prosecute cheaters) if we are to see Bitcoin truly functioning as money.

LN network would be good to bitcoiners because when doing bitcoin transaction using bitcoin is cheap. This ideal to use especially when spending bitcoin like payments. Sending 100$ payment that cost 10$ fee is literally not ideal but we do not have choice because fee are being dictated by the service of miners depending on the demand for their service. The higher the demand for their service the higher chance their service fee would become high.

[amishmanish]

2. When using desktop wallet, I use @bitcoin_fees on Twitter to check for a Sat/B that suits me. I don't generally need instant confirmation when buying stuff with BTC.

You should never trust someone else to tell you how much fee you should pay because you never know their intentions or their accuracy. For instance one of the most popular fee sites (bitcoinfees.earn.com) has been maliciously reporting extremely high fees for years.
You should always do it yourself, meaning use an open source wallet that is capable of analyzing the mempool and give the best suggestion.

Thanks to you and @stompix for the suggestions. Frankly, I never really earned much to spend. Thanks to the current Signature campaign, I've started to spend and buyback..

When i did that the first few times with Electrum, I saw that the fees estimated was quite higher compared to one on the twitter handle. Maybe a one time thing because I did not try the other options later. Will try the suggestions posted here.
 

[Question123]

We really want that the transaction fee in bitcoin will decreased but we don't have choice because it's is fees every bull run the fees is increasing so if we want to save our money we can save the bitcoin and send it in one because we experienced high fees so instead of doing more transaction we can do less to save fees but they have time that you really needed to send the bitcoin and pay high fees.

[bitmover]

The biggest issue that I see with fees is that they shoot up real fast instead of incrementing slowly. For instance a couple of hours ago they suddenly went up to over 100 sat/vbyte (from 5) while the mempool only grew about 20 MB.

I think the biggest issue is that all wallets fee estimators algorithm overestimate fees.
There are many cases when mempool is nearly empty and wallets are suggesting 100 sat/byte.

That is amazing for miners. Where those fee algorithm come from? Even electrum fee estimators is pretty bad and overestimate fees.

I think that if all that diacussoo  about blocksize where redirected to a better fee estimate algorithm things could get a lot better.

Maybe some audition on the actual fee estimators algorithm could show us some really fuked up stuff

I made an algorithm which doesn't overestimate fee, but underestimate them. It just suggest the lowest fee rate within 1mb in the mempool. Not very good, but better than any out the imo (if you dont rely need a 1 blockconfirmationl

[MWesterweele]

You should never trust someone else to tell you how much fee you should pay because you never know their intentions or their accuracy. For instance one of the most popular fee sites (bitcoinfees.earn.com) has been maliciously reporting extremely high fees for years.
You should always do it yourself, meaning use an open source wallet that is capable of analyzing the mempool and give the best suggestion.

Yes indeed, and we also need to know that as bitcoin price grows that is the time that the price of it will grow too , and expect that the fee of it will grow and the transfer speed will reduced and it will become slower than usual and it will be more congested, bitcoin fee is normal for me, ive been in this industry and I am used to it.

[bandungan]

I feel that the cost of bitcoin fees is currently expensive, I don't know what the main factor is. But I think maybe it is influenced by something, and hope that the price can go down soon

[Noctis Connor]

I feel that the cost of bitcoin fees is currently expensive, I don't know what the main factor is. But I think maybe it is influenced by something, and hope that the price can go down soon

The fee for the bitcoin transaction is fine because as you can see the volume price of bitcoin is really high too, this fee's can support those exchange site to support also there financial needs and to keep their business running and maybe this is the reason why the current transaction fee's are too expensive and if you don't want to accept that then you should look for another alternative where to exchange your bitcoin into another coin and then into your real state currency just i always did before cashing out. Also you can really understand the transaction fee's in here source : https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/1195/how-to-calculate-transaction-size-before-sending-legacy-non-segwit-p2pkh-p2sh/3011#3011

[hatshepsut93]

I think "overpricing" only makes sense if someone controls supply and sets a fixed price for it, and if the price is more than most potential buyers are ready to pay, then you have an overprice. But with Bitcoin, the fee prices are regulated by a bidding system, it's a free market, which is the best mechanism for price discovery. Overpaying on fees only happens on individual level, when some users set a much higher fee than needed for some reason - maybe a flaw of their wallet, or they simply put those 200sat/byte fees because they can afford to throw money without thinking.

[Ryker1]

Well, that's why you have to make sure to be smart about converting your Bitcoin into Fiat.
The transaction price of today is way less than the transaction fees before. I can tell that the amount you provided for the transaction fee is actually from the third part of the platform. Perhaps, the best way for you to save is to look for a better platform to convert your bitcoin. There is a lot of options in the market. Be patient in looking for one that has a lesser fee.

[imstillthebest]

Well, that's why you have to make sure to be smart about converting your Bitcoin into Fiat.
The transaction price of today is way less than the transaction fees before. I can tell that the amount you provided for the transaction fee is actually from the third part of the platform. Perhaps, the best way for you to save is to look for a better platform to convert your bitcoin. There is a lot of options in the market. Be patient in looking for one that has a lesser fee.

this is the other thing that i like the most in bitcoin because the fees can adjust and wont be verry high after a pump cool down but other coins cant do that  .
 take a look at eth , the fee of eth is still overpriced but the increase happened to eth werent new . eth increase first before btc
 choosing a trading platform can also help a little bit to save but if you choose a bad exchange or wallet , you can spend more than you save .

[Sled]

Well, that's why you have to make sure to be smart about converting your Bitcoin into Fiat.
The transaction price of today is way less than the transaction fees before. I can tell that the amount you provided for the transaction fee is actually from the third part of the platform. Perhaps, the best way for you to save is to look for a better platform to convert your bitcoin. There is a lot of options in the market. Be patient in looking for one that has a lesser fee.

this is the other thing that i like the most in bitcoin because the fees can adjust and wont be verry high after a pump cool down but other coins cant do that  .
 take a look at eth , the fee of eth is still overpriced but the increase happened to eth werent new . eth increase first before btc
 choosing a trading platform can also help a little bit to save but if you choose a bad exchange or wallet , you can spend more than you save .

That is to advise every crypto holder not to convert their BTC if not need. High fees will soon get over when the market started to dumps.
We said it was overpriced but somehow, we can't deny that many people are still doing the withdrawals. Unfortunately, we don't have any options, probably there are some exchanges that offering small fees but have to risk our funds with them especially when their site is in question? It leaves no choice but to pay for it.

[figmentofmyass]

i just saw a few MB of 1 sat/byte transactions get confirmed, so i'm inclined to say bitcoin's fees are not overpriced.

get in the habit of consolidating inputs (fees are based on size, after all!) and if possible, transact during off-peak hours---generally during USA nighttime. this will save you loads on transaction fees.

I think "overpricing" only makes sense if someone controls supply and sets a fixed price for it, and if the price is more than most potential buyers are ready to pay, then you have an overprice. But with Bitcoin, the fee prices are regulated by a bidding system, it's a free market, which is the best mechanism for price discovery.

+1. well said. in the context of a free market, no fee can really be "overpriced" since other people are willing to pay it. if immediate confirmation is too expensive, don't pay it. wait for congestion to die down. it always does.

we're in the middle of a bubble and 1 sat/byte transactions are being confirmed. what more could one ask for?

[Sithara007]

This issue is exacerbated by the rise in exchange rate of Bitcoin. Earlier, if the median fee per transaction was BTC0.0002, then it translated to just $2. Now with the price rise, the same transaction will cost you $5.30. And in the future, we can expect this to go up even further. The total number of transactions are not going to decrease, and the block size will remain constant.

[Abiky]

OP, relative to the fees you pay in Bitcoin's centralized counterparts, yes, the fees are sometimes high everytime the mempool is flooded. From a censorship-resistance standpoint, and because of the design decisions made to overshoot security and maintain censorship-resistance, it's the right price at the given time.

It makes sense. You're actually paying a high fee in exchange for decentralization and censorship resistance. Bitcoin's high level of security and reliability comes at a cost. I'd prefer to pay a high fee for transferring thousands of dollars around the world, knowing that the transaction will become completely irreversible (immutable). Not unlike many cryptocurrencies out there which are subject to external attacks due to their low level of security. They may provide cheaper fees and faster transaction confirmation times, but the fact that they sacrifice decentralization for scalability makes them completely unreliable for sending large amounts of money around the world. I guess that people will use different blockchain networks and scalability solutions depending on their daily needs.

Anyone looking to send micropayments with Bitcoin will be forced to use the Lightning Network or an alternative cryptocurrency like Bitcoin Cash or Litecoin. The high on-chain fees on Bitcoin makes it only suitable as a store of value. At least, there's a fee market which brings a competitive scenario to Bitcoin users. If the majority of Bitcoin transactions have a low fee attached to them, miners will have no choice but to process them on the Blockchain. But if people continue to pay high fees, then those paying low fees will be left behind. Despite Bitcoin's current fees, it's still cheaper than wire transfers. With developers working hard on scaling Bitcoin, it's expected that fees will decrease in the long term. Just my opinion

[bitmover]

With developers working hard on scaling Bitcoin, it's expected that fees will decrease in the long term. Just my opinion

I think most efforts are focused in off chain solutions , such as lightning network.

We dont need to tell all nodes in the world that I bought a coffee.

I believe that in long term on chain transactions will not be cheaper, maybe even more expensive. But most transactions will occur off chain, and only few and high value transactions will be made on chain

My 2cc

[Abiky]

it is really annoying, especially if you want to use bitcoin to buy something online that is cheap, like five or ten bucks, things will get frustrating when you see fees to send 5$ is 5$ or even more, it's not good for people such as me who use it for small transactions only.

I feel you. Paying exorbitant fees for small transactions is not economically feasible. This will scare away many people from Bitcoin, as they're unable to perform small purchases with it. While we still have the Lightning Network around, it still has some flaws that need to be addressed (aside from the fact that the Lightning Network is difficult to use for the average person). There's still the option of paying a low fee on the Bitcoin blockchain. But this will take hours (if not days) for the transaction to become confirmed on the network.

If fees continue to soar, then people won't be able to use Bitcoin as digital cash. It'll work more as a store of value instead of digital cash. At least, there are alternative cryptocurrencies on the market that are much faster and cheaper to use than Bitcoin. I believe that Litecoin and Bitcoin Cash will gain traction soon, as fees remain high on the BTC blockchain. These chains charge fees that are often less than a penny, making them extremely convenient for micropayments. At least, high fees will ensure Bitcoin remains resilient against external attacks. What truly matters is decentralization/censorship resistance above all else. And I'd say that Bitcoin has been doing a pretty good job at this. Just my thoughts

[SmokerFace]

We need to confront the high charge if we need to utilize bitcoins.
It's the well-known fact, that on the off chance that the interest is expanding, at that point the cost will likewise increment and that is what's going on in the bitcoin's expense.
In any case, it appears to be the cost is still low in contrast with the other Payments plat structure like PayPal or Payoneer.
Whenever I send the payment through Payoneer or Paypal they cut the profound exchange expense. While in bitcoin they don't charge a lot.