Trust Violation Apology

[Quickseller]

Take my advice QS: place the DT Trolls on ignore including via PM.  You don't need their agrovation.

It was QS that sent me the unsolicited PM to visit this thread. 

This is false, you were not sent a PM to visit this thread.

End 2020 the same way you started it - lying.

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You should have an admin verify the authenticity of you receiving a PM from me with that title.

I got one too, are you saying you didn't send this pm?

I said that I was mistaken..

It seems that I am mistaken. I received confirmation that the message was in fact delivered to Vod, according to Theymos.

My apologies.

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[Quickseller]

I got the idea from another forum member who was in very good standing, and was well trusted at the time throughout the community -- I entered into a transaction with what turned out to be one of his sockpuppets, and he suggested that we use his 'main' account as a middle man. When I got caught, I lied about being banned in order to cover it up, which was wrong, is something I should not have done, and is something I regret doing.

Who cares where you got the idea? Is that supposed to absolve you of shady dealings?  I watched Ocean's 11 a few weeks ago, but I'm not plotting to rob a casino now.  WTF, over? 

It was supposed to explain that I did not have bad intentions. This was something that others did out in the open.

And I'll be honest, the first thing that came to mind when I read the above paragraph was: who is this guy that gave you this shitty idea, and why haven't you exposed him for the scammer that he is?

It was tomatocage. He was also caught doing this, and no one seemed to care. He also left himself positive trust, which is something I have never done. The above, along with the experience I posted lead me to believe this was an accepted practice. I have since realized this is wrong.

[BrokenM14]

It was supposed to explain that I did not have bad intentions. This was something that others did out in the open.

So, if I were to give you a loan...

[DireWolfM14]

It was supposed to explain that I did not have bad intentions. This was something that others did out in the open.

So, if I were to give you a loan...

And I were to hold your collateral, you don't think that would constitute bad intentions?  What if I had taken every precaution to cause you to believe that you were dealing with two separate people?

Come on, man!  You know what you were doing was wrong, don't play that bad intentions shit.

And I'll be honest, the first thing that came to mind when I read the above paragraph was: who is this guy that gave you this shitty idea, and why haven't you exposed him for the scammer that he is?

It was tomatocage. He was also caught doing this, and no one seemed to care. He also left himself positive trust, which is something I have never done. The above, along with the experience I posted lead me to believe this was an accepted practice. I have since realized this is wrong.

Ah, I see.  Was that before or after you bought the tomatocage account?

[Timelord2067]

Ah, I see.  Was that before or after you bought the tomatocage account?

Is there proof that QS bought the tomatocage account?

If that is true then it proves my assertions of a connection between the two accounts after all and is a middle finger to the years of Trolling by the DT Trolls who were certain that I was wrong because they didn't want to believe I could be right

[Quickseller]

It was supposed to explain that I did not have bad intentions. This was something that others did out in the open.

So, if I were to give you a loan...

And I were to hold your collateral, you don't think that would constitute bad intentions?  What if I had taken every precaution to cause you to believe that you were dealing with two separate people?

Come on, man!  You know what you were doing was wrong, don't play that bad intentions shit.

Honestly, that is not something that would bother me, as long as all obligations to me are followed. If I had reason to believe this had not been done to other people, I would privately warn you that your behavior is frowned upon by the community, and that it is ill advisable to continue that kind of behavior. I would not try to ruin your reputation over a single mistake.

When tomatocage was caught escrowing for himself, he was laughed at by haploid23 for getting caught, and no one batted an eye. This included scammers who were tagged by tomatocage who had an incentive to bring up any dirty laundry that might result in getting their tags removed.

You can say it is obvious to you that what I was doing was wrong, and that might be true. However I would honestly say I did not realize what I was doing was wrong at the time, and that is the truth. Tomatocage at the time was one of the most respected forum members, along with one of the most trusted. I don't think there is anyone comparable to TC today -- there are influential people, and people that receive a lot of merit, but these people in my view don't have the same type of standing that TC had.

[suchmoon]

Honestly, that is not something that would bother me, as long as all obligations to me are followed. If I had reason to believe this had not been done to other people, I would privately warn you that your behavior is frowned upon by the community, and that it is ill advisable to continue that kind of behavior. I would not try to ruin your reputation over a single mistake.

What a load of BS. If it was a "mistake", or you honestly believed that it's acceptable, why would go to such lengths to deny it, fake a ban, attempt to discredit people outing your alts etc.

You should probably look up the definition of escrow and its obligations.

But nice try again to paint it as the only bad thing you ever did, oh and it wasn't really bad because what about other people. Your inability to genuinely admit any fault if quite amazing, possibly only exceeded by your masterful use of fallacies.

[LoyceV]

So, if I were to give you a loan...

And I were to hold your collateral, you don't think that would constitute bad intentions?

Honestly, that is not something that would bother me, as long as all obligations to me are followed.

In my opinion:

• This is misleading because you charge for a service you're not providing. (I think we can all agree on that)
• Apart from the fee, the escrow isn't used because of being a third party, but because of having a trusted reputation. If the deal would be with the escrow directly, the other party likely wouldn't require an escrow. (I'm not sure if we can all agree on this one)
• There isn't any more risk than any other deal in which the escrow deals with 2 real parties instead of his own alt and someone else. (I think violating this deal would be the same risk and result in the same reputation damage as violating a deal with 2 other parties)

And this is mostly speculation but I wasn't arround at the time: did QS escrow this deal because he didn't want his alt to become known? AKA the main reason to do this was to secure his account farming at the time? Or did he knowingly suggest himself as an escrow to mislead the other party in pretending they are different people?

[marlboroza]

However I would honestly say I did not realize what I was doing was wrong at the time

As I can see from your trust page, you were trusted, in my opinion you didn't really need to self-escrow funds to gain more trust. So why did you do it?

Oh, silly me, I forget to ask you when are you going to apologize to me for spreading lies that I was forced off DT1?

[Quickseller]

And this is mostly speculation but I wasn't arround at the time: did QS escrow this deal because he didn't want his alt to become known? AKA the main reason to do this was to secure his account farming at the time? Or did he knowingly suggest himself as an escrow to mislead the other party in pretending they are different people?

I had stopped farming accounts earlier that year, and have not farmed accounts since then.

The purpose was to protect my IRL identity. Panthers52 was originally intended to be farmed when I created it, however it turned into an account I used to chat. I never took any steps to increase trust positive trust ratings on accounts I sold, although I did receive one DT positive trust rating because I pointed out a scam.

[Vod]

I predict Quicksy will come clean in Dec 2021 about PrimeNumber7 and apologize.  OG will continue to deny he escrow scammed with his alt Rmcdermott927.

[DireWolfM14]

So, if I were to give you a loan...

And I were to hold your collateral, you don't think that would constitute bad intentions?

Honestly, that is not something that would bother me, as long as all obligations to me are followed.

It would bother me.  Even if the intention was not to scam, and in the example above I would be jeopardizing the reputation of my main account if I were to scam, it's the deception that's troubling.  One is left to question; why the deception?  

It wouldn't be wrong of me to insist on holding the collateral for a loan I granted.  I'd like to believe that I'm trusted enough that most of my clients would feel comfortable with that situation.  And if not, I'm not going to go out of my way to deceive them.

In my opinion:

• This is misleading because you charge for a service you're not providing. (I think we can all agree on that)
• Apart from the fee, the escrow isn't used because of being a third party, but because of having a trusted reputation. If the deal would be with the escrow directly, the other party likely wouldn't require an escrow. (I'm not sure if we can all agree on this one)
• There isn't any more risk than any other deal in which the escrow deals with 2 real parties instead of his own alt and someone else. (I think violating this deal would be the same risk and result in the same reputation damage as violating a deal with 2 other parties)

I agree with you, and maybe that's not the best example if someone was looking to scam, but that's not what I suspect of QS.  

And this is mostly speculation but I wasn't arround at the time: did QS escrow this deal because he didn't want his alt to become known? AKA the main reason to do this was to secure his account farming at the time? Or did he knowingly suggest himself as an escrow to mislead the other party in pretending they are different people?

There's obviously something not right going on.  Surreptitiously bulging a the reputation of the alt is the only thing I can see as the benefit of doin the deal described above.

[nutildah]

I think its great that you're exhibiting some humility and your acknowledgment of potential misdeeds is commendable. However,

I had stopped farming accounts earlier that year, and have not farmed accounts since then.

People should be forgiven for past mistakes but you just refreshed your denial of what is obviously your alt being your alt. (Among other things,) PN7's first post on the forum was commentary on theymos' motivations. I mean, c'mon.

[suchmoon]

People should be forgiven for past mistakes but you just refreshed your denial of what is obviously your alt being your alt. (Among other things,) PN7's first post on the forum was commentary on theymos' motivations. I mean, c'mon.

I'm sure he can come up with some sleazeball definition of "farming" that doesn't apply to his sockpuppeting.

[nutildah]

I'm sure he can come up with some sleazeball definition of "farming" that doesn't apply to his sockpuppeting.

Hmm... I think you're right here. Farming isn't the same thing as sockpuppeting. I guess QS was telling the truth after all.

[Quickseller]

So, if I were to give you a loan...

And I were to hold your collateral, you don't think that would constitute bad intentions?

Honestly, that is not something that would bother me, as long as all obligations to me are followed.

It would bother me.  Even if the intention was not to scam, and in the example above I would be jeopardizing the reputation of my main account if I were to scam, it's the deception that's troubling.  One is left to question; why the deception? 

It wouldn't be wrong of me to insist on holding the collateral for a loan I granted.  I'd like to believe that I'm trusted enough that most of my clients would feel comfortable with that situation.  And if not, I'm not going to go out of my way to deceive them.

I was answering your question specifically how I would feel about the situation. I also understand that others feel differently.

Maybe granting loans is different than trading physical items, which is what I was doing, and there would be less of a legitimate reason to hold collateral for a loan with a hidden alt. The transactions I acted as escrow for myself were transactions in which I had to disclose my IRL identity, or risk being forced to refund my buyer if something went wrong. One of the transactions involved me shipping something internationally, and I had to disclose my IRL identity on the customs form which is attached to the package. The other transaction involved me selling someone bitcoin via Western Union (it might have been a similar service), and if I didn't put my real name on the sending form (the information of which is available to the seller I believe), I would be unable to get a refund from Western Union if for some reason the buyer could not pick up the money.

As I said above, the reason I did this was because I wanted to protect my IRL identity.

[Vod]

Maybe granting loans is different than trading physical items, which is what I was doing, and there would be less of a legitimate reason to hold collateral for a loan with a hidden alt. The transactions I acted as escrow for myself were transactions in which I had to disclose my IRL identity, or risk being forced to refund my buyer if something went wrong. One of the transactions involved me shipping something internationally, and I had to disclose my IRL identity on the customs form which is attached to the package. The other transaction involved me selling someone bitcoin via Western Union (it might have been a similar service), and if I didn't put my real name on the sending form (the information of which is available to the seller I believe), I would be unable to get a refund from Western Union if for some reason the buyer could not pick up the money.

As I said above, the reason I did this was because I wanted to protect my IRL identity.

You were the first profile that was caught escrowing for yourself, but that little scam has become tolerated now as some of the biggest sellers have also done it. 

But why are you apologizing for being sneaky when you are currently doing it with PrimeNumber7?   I hope no one takes your apologies seriously until you actually change your ways.  :/

[Ralph Little]

Quicky

Apologising for the self escrow debacle & coming clean is very honest & noble, you didn’t have to do this. I would advise to lock the thread now though as the usual suspects are just trying to dig you out on other stuff.

[Vod]

Apologising for the self escrow debacle & coming clean is very honest & noble,

It's like Trump apologizing for the riots while he tries to organize another one.  Quicksy runs alt accounts where he does what he apologizes for from this account.  There is no nobility here.   

[nullius]

I wish that I had seen this last year.

Quickseller, thank you for affirmatively dispelling my remaining doubts about you.  I think it’s big of you finally to come clean on the Panthers52 affair—especially when, sadly but inevitably, it could not but be expected that you would be met with a barrage of hostility from people who are more interested in humiliating you than in the truth.  It is just the way that things work on this forum.

If it makes you feel any better, my first thought on seeing this was:  Wow, I wish that Lauda were here.  I’m sure that it would have been a big moment for her to see this.


A message to all of the people who have been attacking PrimeNumber7 on this thread:

I am >90% sure that Quickseller and PrimeNumber7 are different individuals, and the alt account accusation is totally false.  I cannot be 100% sure, without first-hand knowledge—or without at least knowing them both much better than I do.  But after having studied the question over a long period of time, I am almost sure of it.

You should consider that you are catching an innocent bystander in the crossfire of your animus toward Quickseller.  And for what?  Even assuming that the accusations presented on the flimsiest of evidence were correct, there is here no accusation of alt accounts being used to facilitate a scam.  You are risking damage to an innocent party if you are wrong about PrimeNumber7, for no reason but a grudge against Quickseller.

That is unconscionable and indefensible.  Stop it.


By happenstance, I found this thread a few days ago.  I wanted to compose a proper response; but I have not had time to keep up properly with the forum and with other threads, so it kept being pushed down my list of things to do.  I should have made earlier such a simple response as the foregoing.

For the record, I note that last month, before Quickseller posted this thread, I intended to remove my ~ on him.  I decided to wait and watch for a full year since he removed trust feedback that I had found objectionable.  Now, I wish that I had done it before.  Anyway, I have done it now, thus resetting him to the default state.  I don’t have any negative feedback on him to review.  I have opposed the flag on him.  I am debating whether I should pull a TMAN, or keep waiting and watching.  :-)

Happy New Year, Quickseller—and good luck.