BITCOIN FORUM account opened today. So many questions.......lets talk anonymity

[teosanru]

Talking about Mixers and as you are new to the forum I would give a caveat from my side, I have recently seen agencies especially in the US don't have a very positive attitude towards these mixers. I have read a lot of news where the Mixers owners were actually arrested for operating these mixers but no such news is heard about the users.

This is something that's unfortunately becoming more and more common, but if you start using mixers and breaking the chain then I honestly don't think it makes sense, after breaking it, to send the coins again through mixers. You either go anonymous or you don't.

Yes Mixers are a pretty safe option to break the chain but what I am trying to explain is that maybe authorities these days are trying to decode this mixing process too. I have seen in a few cases a couple of mixers were decoded.

While on an exchange I think it's safe but that seriously depends a lot on exchange to exchange. It's not that difficult to trace out your Deposit & Withdrawal History once they have your exchange account.

It might be "safe" (depends what you mean by that), but it's not privacy-enhancing. In fact, it is most often the opposite. Once your IP is recorded with a withdrawal request, they know it's also you who deposited. Sending money from exchange to exchange is like moving money from bank to bank hoping the government will not find you.

It's not that easy. Governments aren't just two common people or companies. If an exchange is situated in some other country and another country wants to request some information it has to go through a pretty lengthy process and there has to be a bilateral treaties between the countries. Moreover, Most of the exchanges are located in These tax heavens which are not willing to share information about their companies too quickly. All this happens considering the amount of fraud involved. They aren't going to go through this process for a few hundred thousand dollars because all this takes some cost.

[20kevin20]

Yes Mixers are a pretty safe option to break the chain but what I am trying to explain is that maybe authorities these days are trying to decode this mixing process too. I have seen in a few cases a couple of mixers were decoded.

Oh, they surely are, no doubt! Authorities are on a mission to link back transactions together through blockchain analysis + external information, and mixers should be on their blacklist.

It's not that easy. Governments aren't just two common people or companies. If an exchange is situated in some other country and another country wants to request some information it has to go through a pretty lengthy process and there has to be a bilateral treaties between the countries. Moreover, Most of the exchanges are located in These tax heavens which are not willing to share information about their companies too quickly. All this happens considering the amount of fraud involved. They aren't going to go through this process for a few hundred thousand dollars because all this takes some cost.

Well, the main target isn't a specific customer of the exchange. It's usually an attempt to find out multiple law-breakers by requesting information about a specific exchange's customers. One exchange doing that makes everything really bad for your privacy.

They now have the IP you've used the website through and the address your BTC came from. And now, if you jump from exchange to exchange starting with an amount of 0.15 BTC, you're going to keep jumping the approximately same amount of BTC (minus fees).

So in the end, what you're really doing is.. you're making it easier for authorities to identify not only who the owner of your address is, but also other accounts you have on other exchanges!

[o_e_l_e_o]

Yes Mixers are a pretty safe option to break the chain but what I am trying to explain is that maybe authorities these days are trying to decode this mixing process too. I have seen in a few cases a couple of mixers were decoded.

Not the first time I've linked to this post: Breaking Mixing Services

The thesis included in the post is a great read, not just from the breaking mixers point of view, but also as a general education about how most mixing services work. The TL;DR is that every mixer except ChipMixer can be broken to various degrees.

They aren't going to go through this process for a few hundred thousand dollars because all this takes some cost.

They very well might. And they can quite easily prevent an exchange from operating in your country unless they cough up the information, which will be more than enough for most exchanges to roll over and hand over all your details. Even if this never happens, the fact remains that it could happen at any time. There is no good reason to use a log keeping exchange to inadequately mix coins when you can do so more privately and cheaper by using a good mixer.

[pixie85]

Question on anonymity.  I bought my Bitcoin from Coinbase (like i said newbie), anyway, I learned what a wallet is and decided to transfer my bitcoin.  I also learned i can be tracked via my bitcoin address because of my initial purchase from Coinbase (KYC).

It's difficult to clean anything once you went through KYC on coinbase. What happened is your bank account was forever associated with cryptocurrency.

Your bank, coinbase and any government agency will now know your name, address, bank account, the amount of coins you were able to buy and if you send them to another exchange they will know where those coins ended and can ask that exchange to give them the account details of the person who received them.

You can send coins to a mixer but your name will still be listed as a buyer of a certain number of bitcoins. If you want to erase as much as you can you should sell coins on coinbase, withdraw money to your bank account and ask them to close the account. Then start over somewhere else where KYC is not required.

If I were you I'd try to buy bitcoins with cash.

[ShowOff]

I would like to know why anyone would want to be anonymous with the bitcoin asset they have bought so far. In fact, some of them are constantly looking for ways to get rid of the transaction trail and make it very vague to study. Does this have something to do with the factor of individual interest in wanting to own wealth without being able to be tracked by the government ?

Bitcoin has never facilitated illegal acts and also various other cases that violate the law. But we know that these people continue to use bitcoin for illegal activities. What I think is when we buy bitcoin for net cash why should we have them anonymously and obscure all transaction.

[o_e_l_e_o]

It's not about having things I want to hide or obscure; rather, it is that I have nothing I want to share. I have never done anything illegal with my bitcoin, but that doesn't mean I want governments, three letter agencies, exchanges, ad companies, any number of third parties, or random strangers tracking all my transactions and sticking their noses in to my financial history.

Everyone values privacy. If you didn't, then why have curtains on your windows? Why even wear clothes? If you think financial privacy is unnecessary, then please feel free to upload your bank statements and credit card history for everyone on this forum to look at. While you are at it, why not also share your real name, address, email passwords, and browsing history? Obviously don't actually do this, I'm just making a point!

Privacy is a fundamental human right. Without it, you are constantly modifying your behavior to what is deemed "acceptable" by the state and/or society. Without privacy, there is no freedom.

I'd also invite you to read this previous post of mine, and the links contained within: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5214200.msg53499357#msg53499357

[ShowOff]

It's not about having things I want to hide or obscure; rather, it is that I have nothing I want to share. I have never done anything illegal with my bitcoin, but that doesn't mean I want governments, three letter agencies, exchanges, ad companies, any number of third parties, or random strangers tracking all my transactions and sticking their noses in to my financial history.

Everyone values privacy. If you didn't, then why have curtains on your windows? Why even wear clothes? If you think financial privacy is unnecessary, then please feel free to upload your bank statements and credit card history for everyone on this forum to look at. While you are at it, why not also share your real name, address, email passwords, and browsing history? Obviously don't actually do this, I'm just making a point!

Privacy is a fundamental human right. Without it, you are constantly modifying your behavior to what is deemed "acceptable" by the state and/or society. Without privacy, there is no freedom.

Thank you for answering me. That is a very pleasant answer to read. I understand that privacy for most people is a right they need. Financial privacy is the most important thing that needs to be maintained and does not need to be published. Even a hacker needs privacy never to be found out online. And on this occasion I don't blame anyone for having the privacy that is truly their right.

I'd also invite you to read this previous post of mine, and the links contained within: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5214200.msg53499357#msg53499357

Have also read and understand the content of the posts that you make on this link. This makes me understand how stupid we are when it comes to respecting the privacy we should have. We are not completely safe because many important things in our lives are recorded by well-known companies such as Google, Facebook, Twitter and other social media. They have a good record of knowing nearly every user behavior more than we do.

Anyway, I really can't do anything to get a decent privacy in exchange. I use local exchange to convert my digital assets to fiat but they require users to pass KYC. This is a government rule that I need to follow. I hope I'll stay safe with KYC on that exchange and be fine until now.

[o_e_l_e_o]

This makes me understand how stupid we are when it comes to respecting the privacy we should have.

People do not realize just how important their privacy is until it is too late. There are a quarter of a million Ledger customers who are current being targeted by email, SMS, and phone call spam and phishing, including threats of physical violence, because their privacy was compromised. There are people who have had their lives ruined and been left liable for tens of thousands of dollars of debt or even with a criminal record because of identity theft.

We are not completely safe because many important things in our lives are recorded by well-known companies such as Google, Facebook, Twitter and other social media. They have a good record of knowing nearly every user behavior more than we do.

Absolutely. You can mitigate some of this by keeping accounts separate, using different browsers, limiting how much information you share, and so on, but the best solution when it comes to companies like this is to simply stop using them. There are better alternatives to everything Google offers, and not only can you live without social media, but research shows those who do are happier and more productive.

Anyway, I really can't do anything to get a decent privacy in exchange.

Try looking at peer to peer exchanges such as Bisq, LocalCryptos, or Hodl Hodl.

[ShowOff]

-snip-

@o_e_l_e_o, I can understand almost all the points that you have tried to explain well. It's all like you are telling me that you care deeply about privacy in this online world. For a long time I was less active on social media such as Facebook, Twitter, telegram and others. I don't really like publishing what I do to large numbers of people online. In my opinion, all of that is not too important to show people because basically I am not a public figure. lol

Like most people, I have been using Google for a long time to surf the web. I know they record almost everything we've done to date. So far I have also used the tor browser for PC in an attempt to better maintain my privacy. But I haven't found the best recommendation for Android. Is there a proper way to continue using Google on android but not give them a chance to record our data ? I currently don't give Google permission to record my activity and location and have turned off the chimes. Is there any other way after that ?

[o_e_l_e_o]

Is there a proper way to continue using Google on android but not give them a chance to record our data ?

There is no completely safe way to use Google. The best option is to cut it out altogether. Instead of Chrome use Firefox or Tor Browser. Use the app Orbot to route everything via Tor. Instead of Google search use DuckDuckGo. Instead of GoogleMail use ProtonMail. Instead of Google Maps use OpenStreetMaps. And so on. Take a look at the following sites:

https://prism-break.org/en/
https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/wiki/de-google

Unfortunately, with all Android devices Google is pretty much built in. Without rooting your phone and installing a custom firmware, you will never escape Google entirely. When it comes to bitcoin, it means trading peer to peer over Tor, not using GoogleMail for accounts or sign ups, and using F-Droid store to download wallet apps.