Sorry guys.. Bitcoin is not for our day-to-day transactions.

[ranochigo]

1. Countries may start having bitcoin as another reserve.

Here we should not assume like countries will first declare bitcoin as legal tender. They may collect as much as bitcoins first and then unveil their stand on bitcoins later.

They won't. Bitcoin is a speculative assets and tends to have a very large fluctuation in price. The total market cap, or if we consider the actual market cap of Bitcoin is very low as compared to the markets of precious metals and other reserve assets. Governments can at best have a tiny percentage of it in Bitcoins and it is not practical.

2. Governments will prefer bitcoin as a digital asset rather than a payment system.

Bitcoin is created as an alternative to government controlled currencies, no? Why would we care what government prefers.

3. Technically bitcoin is designed to be having huge value.

Limited supply and halving are explicit characteristics of bitcoins to assume it is designed to have huge value. When one satoshi is valuing 1 dollar or 10 dollar then you will not transact BTCs multiple time a day. Maybe you spend bitcoins monthly once or twice. Because you are going to use bitcoins only for your life's big things and you will have other income stream due to those big things which has happened with BTC payments.

Bitcoin can be divisible even further, it's just a matter of protocol change. The day 1 Bitcoin = 1 Million dollars isn't going to happen anytime soon, don't worry.
I don't see the practicality of on-chain transactions solely for the fact that merchants can barely accept unconfirmed transactions and having a huge fees with most transactions. I see a future with lightning network and other similar offchain solutions taking the role of daily microtransactions and stuff.

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[acener]

I had stopped dreaming about it ever since 2017 when Bitcoin first hit $20K or almost $20K.
The transaction has been so high ever since Bitcoin gain too much attention and too much price increased.
I realize that it wouldn't be used as a payment because of the transaction fee just imagine paying for coffee or food that is worth less than $10 and the transaction fee with Bitcoin would be more or less $1.
I know some people wouldn't care about it but most of us are saving money and would use anything to have a discount so using Bitcoin for us who are seeking to have cheaper transaction wouldn't really use Bitcoin for that kind of situation.

[SquirrelJulietGarden]

With my limited understanding on bitcoin and bitcoin transactions, I think there are 2 barriers for it to et bigger adoption as means of day-to-day transactions worldwide.
- Block size: The block size is capped and limit the maximum of transactions per block. The max transaction counts per block is not a fix number as it depends on total size of those transactions in a single block.
- Fee structure: Now, the rate of fee per vbyte (in satoshi) is decided by senders. They are components of fee race. The more people want to make transactions, the more hurry people who accept to take higher fees. At the ends, fee will automatically to be lifted up and only small senders (send small amount of bitcoin) will be charge a big percent of fee per total amount sent out.

- More adoption for Bech32 address on centralized exchanges (that I hope will increase in 2021).
- Increase the blocksize more, scale it up
- Second layer solution as Lightning network.
- Change the algorithm for fee structure (is it possible per protocol?): I think this point is very important and if it can be done, it would be a big boost for bitcoin adoption. Fee will be stable in satoshi/vbyte, for instance: X USD / vbyte and the more vbyte a transaction has, the more fee with be paid.

Only the fee in USD will be changed with bitcoin price in USD. Is it possible per Bitcoin protocol?

[LogitechMouse]

If you will say Bitcoin directly to our day-to-day transaction then maybe I will agree with what you said.

Right now, I don't have any cash right now that didn't came into Bitcoin. It may not be used directly in my day to day transactions but my cash right now came from Bitcoin. You are saying this because there are not that much people using or accepting Bitcoin because of its problems like its fee and transaction speed but I believe that there will be a time that people will adopt into it and will choose to pay thru Bitcoin especially right now when there is a pandemic they'd rather pay thru BTC if they want rather than fiat.

Just wait for people to use Bitcoin and then post this thread again .

[BuNga_cute]

The biggest problem I face is not being able to use Bitcoin for our day to day transactions, not because of high Bitcoin transaction fees
or the volatile price of Bitcoin. But because the government in my country prohibits using Bitcoin for payments, so Bitcoin in my country is
legalized only as a digital asset.

Sometimes I am jealous to see people living in countries where the government does not prohibit using Bitcoin for financial transactions.
I agree that for now the fact is that Bitcoin is not ready to be used for day to day transactions. There are still many obstacles that must be
found the best solution first before using Bitcoin for day to day transactions.

[Argoo]

Do you think that states will use bitcoin as a reserve of central banks instead of gold and one hundred governments will use it as a digital asset to accumulate value? This will never happen because the nature of the state is completely different. Many states have now legalized bitcoin, that is, they have established its legal status and determined its order and conditions for walking in society, but they will not actively support it, that is, they will not create an infrastructure for its circulation and use it in international agreements.
They will use their central bank stablecoins, that is, their digitized currencies, and create various regional stablecoins based on their own currencies or the same gold.
So far, the cryptocurrency market has reached one trillion dollars, compared with 70 trillion in stock markets and 200 trillion dollars in the real estate market, and states consider cryptocurrency to be one that does not threaten the stability of the global financial system. It is still unknown how states will treat cryptocurrency in the future. Most likely, they will strengthen the legal regulation of cryptocurrencies in order to weaken their impact on society.

[manfredmann]

I did not see it happen because bitcoin has already experiencng down trend and probably will going to continue for more due to the fact that many users now are earning with bitcoin after they sell everything they had. I myself had already selling even I had a little bit of btc holdings to get the chance to earn more while bitcoin market is high. Today, bitcoin market would probably go down depending on the bicoiner.

[Wenbing]

Sorry but the majority of my transactions are for day-to-day transactions. Top of the list is food delivery (which is getting more frequent in these times), but I'm also now already able to get a lot of credit (paid for with Bitcoin) at almost all the stores I shop at. Cashback rocks.

That's not even counting the payments I make to people or to deposit for the things I do every day (sportsbetting for example). All in Bitcoin.

Sure, I still have to sell for the cash to pay most bills and other expenses. And granted, it'll continue to be the case for a while. But sorry, Bitcoin really is for my day-to-day.

This may be the way you use Bitcon currently, but in the future you will change this approach. lets say 1 btc is now $100k, that means it is not what you can just use because you may not want to lose hold of that asset.

Hence, this is why i agree with the thread maker, in the nearest future, btc will be used for few transaction because the value will be so high that you can use it for small transactions.

[buwaytress]

This may be the way you use Bitcon currently, but in the future you will change this approach. lets say 1 btc is now $100k, that means it is not what you can just use because you may not want to lose hold of that asset.

Hence, this is why i agree with the thread maker, in the nearest future, btc will be used for few transaction because the value will be so high that you can use it for small transactions.

I first got into BTC when it was around $400, and by the time I used it for my first "day-to-day" it was still around $600. It's today around 60 times that value and still hasn't stopped being useful for that purpose. You see, not every Bitcoiner thinks like you expect. Virtually all of my income now as a freelancer is paid in BTC. Sure, I hold as much as I can, but I see value in spending and using it. And a lot of others do as well.

Lightning is also a thing, by the way, and in places like Arnhem in the Netherlands, where Bitcoin merchants have already started adopting Lightning, people continue to use it to pay easily for smaller transactions. I easily see a future of $100k BTC where $1 transactions of 1000 satoshi are easily settled over Layer 2. $1 million BTC? 50 cents (50 satoshi payments) are just as easily done.

[avikz]

you are wrong.
the only reason why bitcoin value keeps going up is because so far bitcoin adoption has been small and until we reach mass adoption it will continue to rise exactly like this.
but when the mass adoption is reached the value becomes a lot more stable than today so it won't be like waking up tomorrow seeing price has gone up 50%.
the only thing that will rise in the future is the price and that is only because the fiat is constantly tanking otherwise the value will remain the same.

How can you say that the bitcoin price will become stable after the mass adoption?? Also what are the parameters to understand if the mass adoption has reached! We've recently touched 41k and came back to 35 and again increasing slowly! In this way, what price seems realistic after mass adoption?

I think what OP is trying to make a simple point - bitcoin looks more attractive as an investment rather than a payment method! That's entirely true! People will definitely regret after 5 years if they use bitcoin to purchase something from store today because the price is constantly increasing!

Just think about the case of the first ever commercial bitcoin transaction worth 10,000 bitcoins for 2 pizzas! Hanyecz could be a billionaire by today!

[Smartprofit]

Do you think that states will use bitcoin as a reserve of central banks instead of gold and one hundred governments will use it as a digital asset to accumulate value? This will never happen because the nature of the state is completely different. Many states have now legalized bitcoin, that is, they have established its legal status and determined its order and conditions for walking in society, but they will not actively support it, that is, they will not create an infrastructure for its circulation and use it in international agreements.
They will use their central bank stablecoins, that is, their digitized currencies, and create various regional stablecoins based on their own currencies or the same gold.
So far, the cryptocurrency market has reached one trillion dollars, compared with 70 trillion in stock markets and 200 trillion dollars in the real estate market, and states consider cryptocurrency to be one that does not threaten the stability of the global financial system. It is still unknown how states will treat cryptocurrency in the future. Most likely, they will strengthen the legal regulation of cryptocurrencies in order to weaken their impact on society.

Yes, countries will definitely create a central bank currency (CBDC). 

Organizations registered in these countries (as well as citizens of these countries) will use this currency as a means of payment.  However, the question arises ...

How to determine the allowable volume of CBDC money supply (for each country)?  For example, one country will issue a large number of CBDCs and another country will issue a small amount of CBDCs. 

How to convert one currency to another?  Countries do not exist in isolation.  They interact with each other.  This is why a world reserve currency is needed.  In theory, it could have been gold. 

However, how to check how much gold is in the hands of the state?  This test is not easy. 

Bitcoin is another matter.  Thanks to the transparent blockchain, every country can easily prove that it controls its bitcoins.

[nutildah]

Bitcoin is one of the only assets in the world where the price of transacting is rises along with the price of the asset. So 20 sat/byte today is 4x more expensive than it was in July, and that's actually far below what it would take to secure getting a tx in the next block (currently 40 sat/byte).

The network itself is fast; its getting the confirmation that is the lengthy part. I transact in BTC 4-5 times a week and most of the time I'm not in a rush to receive the BTC, neither are my recipients in a rush to get their BTC. So cheap fees are fine with me. 

The 2nd layer architecture is there. More exchanges need to follow in Bitfinex's footsteps and accept Lightning and Liquid BTC, allowing customers to convert between the different 2nd layer solutions without having to pay a fee. Eventually those serious about transacting in BTC will find ways to incorporate these solutions in order to save money on fees...

Sky's the limit for BTC once more txs are offloaded from the main chain.

[PonZZ]

It was evident for years. Bitcoin transaction fees are too high to use it for making small purchases. Another problem is that sometimes you have to wait to long to get two confirmations.  

[witcher_sense]

How to determine the allowable volume of CBDC money supply (for each country)?  For example, one country will issue a large number of CBDCs and another country will issue a small amount of CBDCs. 

How to convert one currency to another?  Countries do not exist in isolation.  They interact with each other.  This is why a world reserve currency is needed.  In theory, it could have been gold. 

These are interesting questions the answer to which I found in one of the best books I have ever read "Mystery of Banking" by Murray N. Rothbard, an American economist of the Austrian school. I highly recommend you to look at his works, his arguments are very convincing and apt.

In his book, he claims that unlike consumer and capital goods, money performs only one function, which is facilitating exchange between individuals. So, it doesn't matter what the supply of money is if money is highly divisible. Any amount is to be considered enough if people can use it in their exchanges. The more money, the worse because it only results in an increase in the price of goods. The controllable supply of money is even worse because it constantly distorts market prices. Bitcoin is poised to solve this problem of managed supply because its supply cannot be altered, and also it is divisible enough to perform the function of exchange.

[bryant.coleman]

People need to understand that under current scenario, Bitcoin is more useful as an investment asset rather than as a mode of payment. Anyway, who want to make payments in BTC, when it has appreciated by close to 300% during the last four months? For grocery shopping and all, what you need to do is to convert some of your BTC to gift cards. You can use these gift cards for shopping. Grocery items are priced in fiat currency anyway, and therefore it makes hardly any difference.

[Smartprofit]

How to determine the allowable volume of CBDC money supply (for each country)?  For example, one country will issue a large number of CBDCs and another country will issue a small amount of CBDCs.  

How to convert one currency to another?  Countries do not exist in isolation.  They interact with each other.  This is why a world reserve currency is needed.  In theory, it could have been gold.  

These are interesting questions the answer to which I found in one of the best books I have ever read "Mystery of Banking" by Murray N. Rothbard, an American economist of the Austrian school. I highly recommend you to look at his works, his arguments are very convincing and apt.

In his book, he claims that unlike consumer and capital goods, money performs only one function, which is facilitating exchange between individuals. So, it doesn't matter what the supply of money is if money is highly divisible. Any amount is to be considered enough if people can use it in their exchanges. The more money, the worse because it only results in an increase in the price of goods. The controllable supply of money is even worse because it constantly distorts market prices. Bitcoin is poised to solve this problem of managed supply because its supply cannot be altered, and also it is divisible enough to perform the function of exchange.

Thanks for the valuable information.  I will definitely read this book.

In my opinion, money has two functions - the function of payment and the function of saving.  Bitcoin is very efficient for preserving capital.  However, there is one caveat.  

Bitcoin is not an anonymous or private cryptocurrency.  If the owner of the bitcoins is not anonymous, then hackers and robbers can easily attack him.  Many people don't have enough technical knowledge to store their bitcoins on their own.  

Also Bitcoin is having difficulty performing the payment function.  These are technical difficulties due to the small block size.  7 billion people will not be able to use Bitcoin at the same time.  The number of daily transactions on the Bitcoin network is limited.  

The main advantage of Bitcoin is that it allows transactions of very large amounts of money.  

Therefore, in the future, I consider countries and large corporations as the main users of bitcoin.

[Yatsan]

With the amount needed for Bitcoin transaction to be successful, for sure not all can afford to use Bitcoin on a daily basis as a mode of payment for transaction fees are incredibly getting higher as time passes by. It is more likely Bitcoin is good as an investment asset rather than being of a payment option. Yes, Bitcoin is good for payment option as well but it seems that due to high transaction fees, people are more likely be treating Bitcoin to be used for investment opportunities. The reality is just that people would prefer exerting Bitcoin to be conducted as investment assets to gain profit instead of using it for small amount purchases considering you will be spending transaction fees on that and confirmation is taking long to be done as well. Having Bitcoin to serve as transactions method is good but now on a daily basis.

[Ucy]

If you are holding your bitcoins with the expectation of bitcoin will be hitting main stream adoption one day so that you will easily buy groceries for direct BTC payments and pay your gas bill with BTC, your dream will get fulfilled one day but after that you may regret for spending bitcoins for lesser value or for silly things.

I mean we are holding something technically advanced one but with old-fashioned expectations.

I agree.
I think it's better to use your bitcoin mostly for buying very valuable/useful things that "increase or create values", or things that won't lose their value in the future without creating sufficient value for you.
So, it's better to use your bitcoin more for very useful things so you don't regret spending it in the future

[imstillthebest]

If you are holding your bitcoins with the expectation of bitcoin will be hitting main stream adoption one day so that you will easily buy groceries for direct BTC payments and pay your gas bill with BTC, your dream will get fulfilled one day but after that you may regret for spending bitcoins for lesser value or for silly things.

I mean we are holding something technically advanced one but with old-fashioned expectations.

I agree.
I think it's better to use your bitcoin mostly for buying very valuable/useful things that "increase or create values", or things that won't lose their value in the future without creating sufficient value for you.
So, it's better to use your bitcoin for very useful things so you don't regret spending it in the future

i think what he means is that we shouldnt spend our btc because btc value can grow more in value and we can regret it someday but i also like your point that we will only spend useful things that can help us but this also works on almost any currency and payment system we have .
 money is earned in hardwork so we should spend it wisely  .
 groceries and gas is i can say something that is valueable because we need food to live and we need gas to run the car for buying groceries or for other transporting purposes  . gas and food value can grow in price overtime too

[taufik123]

With the amount needed for Bitcoin transaction to be successful, for sure not all can afford to use Bitcoin on a daily basis as a mode of payment for transaction fees are incredibly getting higher as time passes by. It is more likely Bitcoin is good as an investment asset rather than being of a payment option. Yes, Bitcoin is good for payment option as well but it seems that due to high transaction fees, people are more likely be treating Bitcoin to be used for investment opportunities. The reality is just that people would prefer exerting Bitcoin to be conducted as investment assets to gain profit instead of using it for small amount purchases considering you will be spending transaction fees on that and confirmation is taking long to be done as well. Having Bitcoin to serve as transactions method is good but now on a daily basis.

Most people do use bitcoin as a digital currency for investment and to benefit from the very high fluctuation of bitcoin prices. However, if it is used as another payment option, the same as FIAT, people are still not fully interested, because of the increasing value of bitcoins. Just imagine the increase in the price of bitcoin able to penetrate $ 40k USD this year.

I also use Bitcoin as an investment asset and trade with bitcoin as well.