1 BTC = 1 BTC - Off topic from Chipmixer campaign topic

[witcher_sense]

As pooya87 correctly pointed out, in the purely bitcoin context one bitcoin is always equal to another bitcoin. What that means is that on a protocol level, there is no difference between satoshis from 2010 and satoshis from nowadays (yes, there are no any bitcoins there, everything is measured in satoshis). So, we can safely assert that 1 BTC is always 1 BTC, no matter what outside conditions are because bitcoin doesn't really care what humans think about it and how it is valuable to them. That also applies to the fungibility of bitcoin, bitcoin units are indistinguishable, one bitcoin can be easily interchanged with another.

However, when it comes to the physical world, where humans are living and constantly interacting with each other, bitcoin becomes not so fungible. Yes, bitcoins are still equal, but some of them more equal than others. For example, now it takes more time and effort to obtain 1 BTC than it was back in the day. Given that time to humans is the most scarce and valuable asset, the more time we spend to achieve something, the more valuable it becomes. The value of bitcoin can be measured by the time we invested in it. In that sense, the bitcoin of the past is not equal to the bitcoin of the present. Another example of inequality in the value of equal units is again the fungibility of bitcoin. Newly mined bitcoins are worth more because they have no "criminal" history of transactions and can be barely pegged to your identity.

[1713568479]

1713568479

[pooya87]

I think the main issue that raises this discussion is that people still don't consider bitcoin a currency and also because bitcoin price is rising A LOT over the long time. If the rise were small and if they thought of it as a currency this discussion would have never taken place in first place.

If you think about it, you will never hear anyone make the same arguments about fiat even though $1 (2008) =/= $1 (2021) since it has lost a lot of its value due to inflation. But since USD is considered a currency and the inflation rate is not huge and even if it were (like some other fiat currencies) it is something we are used to after decades of inflation.

[davis196]

From a financial point of view,1 BTC from 2021 is NOT equal to 1 BTC from the past years.The BTC price is different and the BTC market is different,compared with all the previous years.
From a technical point of view,1BTC=1BTC,because Bitcoin Core wasn't divided or forked(I'm not counting BCH,BSV and all the forked altcoins/shitcoins,that claim to be Bitcoin)and the total BTC supply didn't change.
I think that most of the people are making the mistake of mixing the financial with the technical side of Bitcoin.

[Wind_FURY]

OP, 1 BTC IS 1 BTC. Fiat value doesn’t exist in the blockchain, BUT outside the blockchain, we need to value it in fiat just to know how much purchasing power your Bitcoin has in the real world, nothing else.

[BlackHatCoiner]

I think the main issue that raises this discussion is that people still don't consider bitcoin a currency and also because bitcoin price is rising A LOT over the long time. If the rise were small and if they thought of it as a currency this discussion would have never taken place in first place.

Whether you consider it a currency or not, when its value gets doubled within a week, you can't really state that. I hate to say that but since most of the people see it as an investment, it is mostly an investment.

If you think about it, you will never hear anyone make the same arguments about fiat even though $1 (2008) =/= $1 (2021) since it has lost a lot of its value due to inflation. But since USD is considered a currency and the inflation rate is not huge and even if it were (like some other fiat currencies) it is something we are used to after decades of inflation.

The inflation rate is huge, but that's not the problem. The problem with inflation comes when you want to save money. Making day-to-day transactions with the dollar isn't bad, because you're living the rates.

Inflation doesn't hurt the currency short-term. It hurts it long-term, that's why none saves on the dollar. But as I explained above, if most people were seeing dollar as an investment, it wouldn't be a currency at all.

[hatshepsut93]

If you think about it, you will never hear anyone make the same arguments about fiat even though $1 (2008) =/= $1 (2021) since it has lost a lot of its value due to inflation. But since USD is considered a currency and the inflation rate is not huge and even if it were (like some other fiat currencies) it is something we are used to after decades of inflation.

Actually regular people do acknowledge that $1 today is not the same as $1 in the past, this is why when someone writes an article about comparing prices with the past, they use inflation adjustment. People just assume that on a scale of 1-15 years the difference is not big enough to complicate their calculations with inflation adjustment.

With Bitcoin this just happens to a much greater extent, its price more than tripled in recent months, and in context of Chipmixer, there's something like x35 increase since the start of the campaign. It's absolutely normal to question whether these payment rates are sustainable.

[actmyname]

Actually regular people do acknowledge that $1 today is not the same as $1 in the past

They might acknowledge it passingly, with one of those, "in my day I could buy x with y; back in my day a dollar bought you," mentions without the deeper lifestyle changes. I still know of some people that believe the US Dollar is still backed completely by gold.

The rampant consumerist materialism that has infiltrated the masses through cultivated corporate propaganda continues to peddle people towards useless shit while their wages decrease: how great to get a 2% raise when your savings asset underperforms a magnitude above that. How many people saw the stimulus coming and thought about diverting liquid savings into alternate assets to prevent depreciation?

[m2017]

I'm not sure what that means. 1 BTC will be equal to 1 BTC. How could it be otherwise?

I think it could be easy.

As you all know here, there can be only 21.000.000 BTC in the world. So it was predetermined by the creator. But it seems to me that the turnover will be less than this figure.

And here's why I think so:
- By now, many people have lost access to their wallets\coins forever, i.e. some % of BTC have already been taken out of circulation.
- It should be added that some people in the future will also lose access to their wallets\coins for various reasons. Unforeseen circumstances happen in life and there are many such examples. This, in turn, further increases % of irretrievably lost BTC.
- Most of BTC mined by Satoshi is stored on he's wallet. Most likely, if Satoshi doesn't return, then this part of the coins is also lost forever.

So it turns out that there will never be  21.000.000 BTC in circulation. Their maximum possible number is already less than this figure and will only decrease over the years, which will add even more value to BTC.

1 BTC not = 1 BTC. Value of 1 BTC above 1 BTC.

I ask you to understand and forgive if somewhere I expressed myself put it not quite right and correct me or add what I may miss.

Updated: here's a recent example (- 7,002 Bitcoin. Most likely forever too)- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5308918.msg56081551#msg56081551

[TheBeardedBaby]

The Chipmixer discussion went that high that even cz_binance left his opinion on that 1btc=1btc.
With this rates I have the feeling that he might be part of the signature campaign
Since I cannot embed tweets here, here's a pic.

Source> https://twitter.com/cz_binance/status/1349215711453880321

[manfredmann]

The member who started the whole story is not a member of the CM signature campaign at all, and all those who commented on his post did nothing wrong - maybe they should have reported off-topic or spam and ended the case?

The only one who has the right to say that the pay rate is decreasing or increasing is the owner who will pass it on to the campaign manager - I have absolutely no problem with any decision in that direction. If you and some other members think you're overpaid, request special campaign status and lower your pay rate.

Before you start with your usual philosophy, consider that I have not spent a single satoshi from the CM campaign, and that for me 1 BTC has always been 1 BTC - and I believe this is the opinion of the CM owner as well.

Yes, why would anyone compare btc from the past few years where in fact it started I guess @ 1$ per btc? 1$ btc vs 40k$ btc is still 1 btc the only thing that matters is that before only little know about bitcoin and utilize it compare now that many are utilizing bitcoin making it as an asset of investment form. So, 1btc is 1 btc nothing less nothing more. Hopefully, I could get 1 btc in the future with the help of the forum. Well, I am only just wishing it who knows one day!

[BitcoinFX]

The price is always the price.

1 BTC = 1 BTC

No comment.

*Gulp*



- https://ibb.co/bdCzdg7

Early exchange service ...
- https://web.archive.org/web/20100429153403/http://www.bitcoinfx.cz.cc/

Verifying my (old) zero balance wallet address for blockchain research etc.,
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4630066.0

$1 = $1



...



Word.

[tranthidung]

About the statement that 1 BTC = 1 BTC

• It is constantly right over the whole lifespan of bitcoin.
• Only price of bitcoin in fiat changes over time. The changes can come from one of two sides or both of them: price of bitcoin increases or bailout of government-backed fiats that change over time and different by fiat to fiat.
• The fact so far is: people change from use bitcoin for their bitcoin transactions to smaller units of bitcoin such as satoshi.

• Will Bitcoin fall to zero? Be woke with changes of No. of BTC with $ 1 million
• Bitcoin: An Unprecedented Experiment in Fair Distribution

[bitmover]

The price is always the price.

1 BTC = 1 BTC

My main point here is the time variable, and the scarcity.

1 BTC 2010 = 1 BTC 2021?

It is not.

Anyone could mine 50 BTC at 2010 with less than 100 USD. You just had to bought an old laptop, mine for a few hours, and you would get a full block reward.

How much does it cost to get 50 BTC nowadays? You would need to mine almost 8 blocks alone. How much would take cost? Probably something close to 1 million dollars of equipment and eletricity?

Bitcoin is now more scarce than it was in 2010. As it is more scarce now than in 2018.

1 BTC in 2010 = 1  BTC in 2020 is the same as saying 1 glass of water in london = 1 glass of water in the Saara Desert. It is not!

This basic economics. Supply and demand.

OP, 1 BTC IS 1 BTC. Fiat value doesn’t exist in the blockchain, BUT outside the blockchain, we need to value it in fiat just to know how much purchasing power your Bitcoin has in the real world, nothing else.

Blockchain cannot be mined without the real world. Without electricity and equiment there is no mining. Without mining there is no bitcoin.
You cannot remove the blockchain from the context it is inserted. This is what PoW is about:  physics, electricity, equipment, energy.




It is sad to see almost all replies are talking about campaign payrates, I though this topic could move away from that, which is almost a philosophic discussion...

When we are in campaign discussion, people go off-topic about 1BTC=1 BTC or whatever.
When we come to a new topic for off-topic discussion, people talk about campaign lol

[dzungmobile]

When we are in campaign discussion, people go off-topic about 1BTC=1 BTC or whatever.
When we come to a new topic for off-topic discussion, people talk about campaign lol

Haha. If you don't report off topic posts, let it be.

[BitcoinFX]

The price is always the price.

1 BTC = 1 BTC

My main point here is the time variable, and the scarcity.

1 BTC 2010 = 1 BTC 2021?

It is not.

Anyone could mine 50 BTC at 2010 with less than 100 USD. You just had to bought an old laptop, mine for a few hours, and you would get a full block reward.

How much does it cost to get 50 BTC nowadays? You would need to mine almost 8 blocks alone. How much would take cost? Probably something close to 1 million dollars of equipment and eletricity?

Bitcoin is now more scarce than it was in 2010. As it is more scarce now than in 2018.

1 BTC in 2010 = 1  BTC in 2020 is the same as saying 1 glass of water in london = 1 glass of water in the Saara Desert. It is not!

This basic economics. Supply and demand.

...snip...

No. You are conflating other economic factors and externalities such as;

Opportunity cost
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost

Sunk cost
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_cost

Paradox of value
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_value

Externality
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Externality

Inflation
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation

etc.,

Again, Bitcoin is Fungible.

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fungibility

1 BTC = 1 BTC

$1 = $1

1 Pizza = 1 Pizza

That is the answer here.

[Murpheus]

1BTC can't equal 1BTC even in a span of just 24h.....

Lest we wouldn't be having the green +(so and so percent) or the red -( so and so percent) on the 24hr price change charts....
Am I making a sense

[BitcoinFX]

1BTC can't equal 1BTC even in a span of just 24h.....

Lest we wouldn't be having the green +(so and so percent) or the red -( so and so percent) on the 24hr price change charts....
Am I making a sense

No. The market moves up and down because Bitcoin is fungible.

1 BTC = 1 BTC

See above post.

...

Which one is heavier ? A ton of feathers or a ton of lead ? ...

[bitmover]

[Again, Bitcoin is Fungible.

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fungibility

1 BTC = 1 BTC

$1 = $1

1 Pizza = 1 Pizza

That is the answer here.

I dont think this has anything to do with fungibily.
1 btc = 1 btc as long as both are in the same time.

All btc In 2018 have the same value, which is not the same as that same btc (or any other) in 2021.

Usd is also fungible,
 1 usd 1830 = 1 usd 2021?
This makes no sense at all.

Maybe you live in a decent country where inflation rate is controlled and you may never had the opportunity to think about it.

But people from developing countries understand this very well.  Money value varies over time.
In brazil we lived more than 100% inflation per month. Interest rates are real here.

1 brl today is not the same as 1 brl tomorrow.  Eventhough Everyone will accept any brl today and tomorrow,  the same coin is different over time.

This is not about fungibility

[pugman]

"1 BTC = 1 BTC" emerged, IIRC, as a commentary on/response to fiat-obsessed bitcoin speculators who only cared about fiat value.

if you are a true bitcoin believer then BTC is the proper unit of account---never any kind of fiat money. fiat money is just a temporary reference. purchasing power is not and never was the definition of a bitcoin, nor should it ever be.

1 BTC = 1/21,000,000th of the max monetary supply, period. if that's not how you're oriented, then you're still stuck in the old paradigm, and you don't value bitcoin as an economy unto itself.

People arguing to keep the ChipMixer payments at their current rates who are trying to get a bigger paycheck, they know that the campaign should decrease the rates and probably want the discussion about it to stop. It's logical, though a bit too smarmy.

i just think all the open speculation lacks tact. it feels icky. people with common sense understand the underlying economics and can reasonably expect what's gonna happen, but i just don't see the point in making some public spectacle out of CM's business decisions. that's why the discussion should cease and why the service thread should be cleaned up IMO.

What he said^

People are, one jealous(which is understandable), and two, trying to farm impressions either by trying to support CM participants, or trying to bring in points against them.

Let CM handle its business, and I think I can speak for everyone in CM campaign when I say, whatever decision they make; it won't affect us. Because we care more about life than how much we get paid weekly by CM. Sole reason why you don't see any CM participant farm and make 50 posts every consecutive week.

As for the point of 1 BTC= 1 BTC, from a normal person point of view: they only care about its fiat value.

Chipmixer as a business uses btc as its main forefront, but they would still have to deal in fiat for most of their business operations/payments. So it is really only up to how they think and NOT how we think.

[Findingnemo]

1 BTC = 1 BTC all the time but their purchasing power was/is /will be changing all the time as well.

In 2010

2 Pizzas were bough using 10000 bitcoins

In 2017 you bought 1300+ Pizzas with 1 bitcoin

in 2021 you can buy 2600+ Pizzas with 1 bitcoin.