Mnemonic Slots

[coinableS]

So I was thinking... https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5309788.msg56156990#msg56156990

Mnemonic Slots

Imagine a giant slot machine with 12 reels and each reel has 2048 BIP39 mnemonic words. Each time you spin you generate a new mnemonic phrase. The resulting first address generated from the mnemonic is checked for a balance or activity. If you "find" a balance you "win".

Kinda along the lines of directory.io but different.

Live demo: https://coinables.github.io/mnemonic-slots/

[1714051689]

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[BlackHatCoiner]

Does this differ from the classic brute force way? Despite that it's a million times slower? I mean, how can this be fun? The website design is nice and I admit that it must have been a good exercise, but the entire project is useless.

BTW, are the mnemonics randomly chosen? I got abandon abandon abandon abandon abandon abandon abandon abandon abandon abandon abandon abandon on a try.

[joniboini]

BTW, are the mnemonics randomly chosen? I got abandon abandon abandon abandon abandon abandon abandon abandon abandon abandon abandon abandon on a try.

I tried them just now and it seems to be working as intended, got 12 different words. Did you try to spin it again? I tried multiple times and it shows different combinations each time. No balance found though (as expected).

[NeuroticFish]

So it's a slot machine game for free where in theory you can win big and in reality you'll never win.
Well, it can be some sort of time waster for some, but I guess that all would get bored fast since they actually never win.
(So I agree, it's rather pointless).

[o_e_l_e_o]

So... attempting to steal money from innocent bitcoin users?

Obviously, you could run this until the death of the sun and never find an address with a balance to steal from, so in that sense it is harmless, but I don't exactly agree with the principle behind it. Just because you found a wallet on the street doesn't mean the contents belong to you. Just because you find a private key/seed phrase collision doesn't mean the bitcoin within belongs to you.

[LoyceV]

I don't exactly agree with the principle behind it. Just because you found a wallet on the street doesn't mean the contents belong to you.

I like to say: "let them try!". If anything, they'll prove to themselves that Bitcoin is secure. OP does this in public, but I have no doubt many others are trying millions of private keys per second, hoping to find one that's funded. Let them, Bitcoin is designed to withstand that, and Bitcoin wouldn't be worth anything if this would matter.

Just because you find a private key/seed phrase collision doesn't mean the bitcoin within belongs to you.

On a philosophical or moral level, you are right. But on a technical level, it's much simpler:  having the key means having the coins.

[o_e_l_e_o]

On a philosophical or moral level, you are right. But on a technical level, it's much simpler:  having the key means having the coins.

Sure, but I'm not sure what it is about bitcoin that makes otherwise honest people think it is OK to steal from people. Most people in the world if they found a set of car keys lying on the ground on a parking lot wouldn't pick them up, find the relevant vehicle, and drive it home. But it seems that there are a significant number of people on this forum who, if they found a private key collision, wouldn't think twice about stealing someone else's coins.

[bitmover]

So... attempting to steal money from innocent bitcoin users?

Obviously, you could run this until the death of the sun and never find an address with a balance to steal from, so in that sense it is harmless, but I don't exactly agree with the principle behind it. Just because you found a wallet on the street doesn't mean the contents belong to you. Just because you find a private key/seed phrase collision doesn't mean the bitcoin within belongs to you.

What is worse about it is that people would have to pay to make an attempt.

You can a beautiful website, like a casino. You pay like 0.00001 btc for 1 attempt. If you find balance, it is yours.

It is an easy way to make money. If someone wins the wheel, he pays with someone else's money. It is a win-win game for him. he can even charge 20% of the "total price" ("or total theft")  before transfering to the user wallet!

New way to use clients processing power to  brute force private keys and even make money with their processing power.

lol

[LoyceV]

Sure, but I'm not sure what it is about bitcoin that makes otherwise honest people think it is OK to steal from people. Most people in the world if they found a set of car keys lying on the ground on a parking lot wouldn't pick them up, find the relevant vehicle, and drive it home. But it seems that there are a significant number of people on this forum who, if they found a private key collision, wouldn't think twice about stealing someone else's coins.

The difference is of course anonymity: a car is registered, and the owner can be found. Bitcoin is more like cash, but on top of that is on the internet. I'm pretty sure more people would return the car keys than a pile of cash they find.

[Vod]

Does this differ from the classic brute force way? Despite that it's a million times slower? I mean, how can this be fun? The website design is nice and I admit that it must have been a good exercise, but the entire project is useless.

I disagree.  All projects are not made for the experienced user to earn coin.

For a person who doesn't understand seeds, it may be interesting enough to try.  When they do not win they may read up on why.  (links will be good)

If even one person changes a repeated passphrase with a seed, the OP has made the world a safer place, right?

Stop thinking with your wallet first, and you'll create actual value.

I'm pretty sure more people would return the car keys than a pile of cash they find.

Not in Canada.

[Timelord2067]

I'm trying the link on an Android device and see one or two words in a couple of boxes then all boxes go blank. Then, after about five seconds, information is displayed in the lower grey box. Basically, I can't see any of the rolled words.

Is 2048 the total number of words possible, or, a selection?

[coinableS]

I'm trying the link on an Android device and see one or two words in a couple of boxes then all boxes go blank. Then, after about five seconds, information is displayed in the lower grey box. Basically, I can't see any of the rolled words.

Is 2048 the total number of words possible, or, a selection?

Thanks for the bug report, I appreciate it. I'm having unexpected positioning results based on browser and screen resolution.

It's just a concept/demo for now. I'm testing on Macbook Air with safari, chrome and firefox, and it works. Also seems to work on my android on chrome. But people with ios phones are experiencing what you're describing, what browser are you using?

I'll have to tinker around more and figure out the best way to achieve the positioning across multiple browsers and devices.

[Timelord2067]

Tor latest version - a couple of times the Ballance comes up, but not the corresponding details.


You could set up a modified version where users pay one Satoshi via Lightning Network and have say just four tumblers (and even say what the words are ahead of time for transparency).

Whoever rolls the correct answer wins the pot. (Almost like slots when you think about it)

[coinableS]

So... attempting to steal money from innocent bitcoin users?

Obviously, you could run this until the death of the sun and never find an address with a balance to steal from, so in that sense it is harmless, but I don't exactly agree with the principle behind it. Just because you found a wallet on the street doesn't mean the contents belong to you. Just because you find a private key/seed phrase collision doesn't mean the bitcoin within belongs to you.

Anytime you create a BIP39 wallet, with any software, you might find someone else's coins. The likelihood of getting a winning spin versus stumbling across them randomly while creating a new wallet are both practically zero %. But it's not zero. We all know it's essentially zero. But it's not. So that what makes the site fun, I thought so at least. Nobody is going to win, but they can try. Also like booblicker Vod posted above, it could be an educational tool for noobs to help understand really big numbers and how bitcoin takes advantage of them for security.

[snaiperkg]

If anyone is interested. There is a similar site http://directory.io/, but with automatic search in the browser. http://privatekeys.info/
But the chances of finding, as on other similar sites, are almost zero. But there is a chance

[LoyceV]

But the chances of finding, as on other similar sites, are almost zero. But there is a chance

You're much more likely to guess credit card number. And if it doesn't have to be mine, it's much easier. With 2.8 billion credit cards in use and only 16 digits per number, you'll find on average 1 valid number for every 3,571,429 combinations you try. I made^* you the first batch of 3,571,429 random 16 digit numbers

^* Give it 40 minutes to complete.

[BlackHatCoiner]

But there is a chance

[Timelord2067]

My mobile phone's version of TOR (9.5.4) seems to work better than the version on my Tablet (10.something).

I was just wondering how "random" are the words selected? And, (newbie question here) I thought the last two or three words were a check-sum to verify the previous words, is this not the case?

[o_e_l_e_o]

Anytime you create a BIP39 wallet, with any software, you might find someone else's coins.

Yes, but wallets don't advertise themselves as tools to steal other people's coins.

The likelihood of getting a winning spin versus stumbling across them randomly while creating a new wallet are both practically zero %.

Emphasis mine. Also the quote from your site: "How do I redeem my funds if I win?". I take major issue with this wording. You are not winning a prize which has been offered up willingly. It is not a competition, and the funds are not yours to redeem. It is stealing.

Yes, we both know no one is going to find a match, but I take major issue with the way things are worded and the implication that if you do stumble across a collision then you have somehow "won" and it is morally and ethically fine to just help yourself to the funds within.

I am surprised I am the only one with an issue here.

[LoyceV]

Emphasis mine. Also the quote from your site: "How do I redeem my funds if I win?". I take major issue with this wording. You are not winning a prize which has been offered up willingly. It is not a competition, and the funds are not yours to redeem. It is stealing.

When you put it like this, it sounds bad indeed.

if you do stumble across a collision then you have somehow "won" and it is morally and ethically fine to just help yourself to the funds within.

If anyone can find my private key, I assume they'll steal my funds. And even if they don't, someone else will do it when they find my keys. None of this matters as long as you keep your keys secure.
Of course it's morally and ethically wrong, but so are many other things. That's why I lock my bicycle, because even if the first people who find it won't take it, someone will!