Missed out on bitcoin, please make me a plan now

[studioman]

Of course, I recommend that you invest in the Top-5 cryptocurrencies with your deposit of 10,000 euros, then for another 2,000 I would invest in little-known tokens, which have promising projects and change their strategy every month. I do not recommend that you invest in only one bitcoin, it is best to adhere to a diversification strategy.  I wish you good luck!

Agan I'm almost touched by the kind advice and messages. I'll reply to some of these, but basically every one would be worth a reply. Thank you once more to all the posts I got. I thought that as a freshbie who didn't (and still doesn't do much) understand anything about these things and who talks about investing 4 digit number sums could be laughed out. I can already tell there's a great bond between guys and girls like you.  Seems like a world I want to start getting myself into.

I think this makes sense. I'll probably burn some money into bitcoin to "ensure" in it in the case there's no major drops. If I get wins from that I'll probably reinvest that as it's my style (I live a cheap life and invest my money mainly in apartments that I rent). If it were for just myself I would sell our house as too much money is tied to that, I really don't care if I lost most of it, but I don't know if my wife would be as understanding. Well she actually might 

Anyway, this diversification sounds very good. I spent last night reading about altcoins, it's a long process but certainly there's interesting names. Some are mentioned here, too, so I'll take a closer look at those. In your example you obviously mean altogether 2000 to little-known tokens? At this first stage I could see myself e.g. putting 60% to bitcoin, 20 % to ethereum and 20% to other altcoins (maybe Ripple, Polka, but I'll have to get into this). Are there any little ones you find especially interesting right now? Thank you!       




     

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[studioman]

I have about 20-25 000 euros to invest in cryptos, some more if there's a terrific buying opportunity. I'm not rich but I've lived a pretty cheap life and worked hard to be able to tolerate losing maybe 10-20 000 and my life would go on with some more too. As long as it's for a good reason and a piece of mind (by not missing out completely) may be a good enough one.

So what would you guys who actually know about these things suggest? What do you think would be a good plan? Maybe put 10 000 to bitcoin now and wait and see what happens? Or are there some other cryptos I should buy? Maybe spread the money? Is there a better buying opportunity for something else right now? How well has stop loss worked with Bitcoin? Maybe I'd invest 6000 with no stop loss, 6000 with a stop loss to 25% lower? Then see what happens and buy more if there's a dip. I know it's a shame I woke up too late so I don't need to be reminded of that, but I would really really appreciate if you could share your knowledge of how to salvage whatever can be salvaged, thank you!!

20k euro is a lot of money, don't know your situation and what you want to do but there are few things you need to check before you can get involved. First one is that you need to make sure you will absolutely not need this money for at least 5+ more years, this money is gone for five years and you will not touch it, can you guarantee that you will not touch this money as long as you can? If you can guarantee it, you could get involved.

Second thing you need to do is make sure you have a goal in mind, you want to make that 20k into 50k? You want to make it 20k to 50k? Or 20k to 1 million? All of them are different, some of them are easier to achieve whereas others are very difficult and requires risk taking. So, if you want to make sure that you get into this, you first need to know what you want to do in the crypto world before you get in.

This is great advise, thank you! I suppose there's no problem leaving the money untouched for the next 5 years. The amount I put into cryptos depends on what I believe the risk/profit relationship is. If I believe e.g. the following:

15% chance to lose all my money
25% chance to lose something, like half of it
25% chance to make as much profit as stocks/funds may make
15% chance to make quite much more than from stocks (which may always slump down)
20% to make life changing amount (if not alone by investing it to real estates with 70% loan, 30% own funding=the possible money from cryptos)

This would be enough to invest more than I originally thought. But of course I'd need to know what I'm doing and not just invest it for the sake of investing. Obviously just about all interesting pretty well-known cryptos are quite high now? I've looked at some charts and at least some have been coming down lately.

[Lucius]

1. So I have an account in Kraken. I live in Scandinavia and I don't know how long it takes to get a harware wallet sent here. Obviously there is no wallet in Kraken, just the exchange part. So if I buy say 10-20 000k of cryptos where should I transfer the money? I've tried to read this and obviously there's online wallets, I guess that's better than nothing. So do I open an online wallet and what do you recommend?

It depends on which hardware wallet you want to order - Ledger is from France, Trezor from the Czech Republic - and everything within the EU should be delivered within 7 working days, although it should be taken into account that shipments could be delayed due to all pandemic measures. Alternatively, you can check on the manufacturer's website to see if there are any official resellers in your country, which can significantly reduce delivery times.

Since you have in mind to invest a larger amount of money, the recommendations would definitely be to invest $50 + in a hardware wallet as it would be the safest and easiest thing to do. Of course, there is also the paper wallet option, but this is usually done with funds that you store for a long time - and the process itself is not easy if you want it to be made completely correctly and without risk. The third option is the so-called cold wallet - it means that you install a desktop wallet on a device that does not have an internet connection.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Paper_wallet
https://electrum.readthedocs.io/en/latest/coldstorage.html

More about hardware wallets -> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=261.0

[studioman]

1. So I have an account in Kraken. I live in Scandinavia and I don't know how long it takes to get a harware wallet sent here. Obviously there is no wallet in Kraken, just the exchange part. So if I buy say 10-20 000k of cryptos where should I transfer the money? I've tried to read this and obviously there's online wallets, I guess that's better than nothing. So do I open an online wallet and what do you recommend?

It depends on which hardware wallet you want to order - Ledger is from France, Trezor from the Czech Republic - and everything within the EU should be delivered within 7 working days, although it should be taken into account that shipments could be delayed due to all pandemic measures. Alternatively, you can check on the manufacturer's website to see if there are any official resellers in your country, which can significantly reduce delivery times.

Since you have in mind to invest a larger amount of money, the recommendations would definitely be to invest $50 + in a hardware wallet as it would be the safest and easiest thing to do. Of course, there is also the paper wallet option, but this is usually done with funds that you store for a long time - and the process itself is not easy if you want it to be made completely correctly and without risk. The third option is the so-called cold wallet - it means that you install a desktop wallet on a device that does not have an internet connection.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Paper_wallet
https://electrum.readthedocs.io/en/latest/coldstorage.html

More about hardware wallets -> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=261.0

Thank you so much for taking the time to help me, I really really appreciate this again! I guess a hardware wallet is the best option. It's a lot of money, but nothing compared to with what many others do, so a paper wallet might do as well. What I do want is a way to have a backup even if it makes things more risky and another thing I want is that if something somehow happened to me my wife could have an access.

But what do you think I should do to the bitcoins (fractions) I have in Kraken, keep there till the harware one comes? Or move them to a software wallet? Is there something low fee/high enough security available? So I either keep the bitcoin in Kraken until I get a hardware wallet or I move the bitcoins (or part of it) to a software wallet?

Oh you also mentioned a cold wallet. I could use e.g. an old iPhone with no internet connection but is there a way to make a backup for it? I will have to get into this, but of course asking is the easiest way for a beginner. Thank you!!

[Lucius]

~snip~

Look at it this way, there's a good chance that nothing bad will happen to your coins if you leave them on the crypto exchange for a while - the only thing to watch out for is to always use the correct link to that exchange, because phishing is responsible for most hacking that happens. So save legit link to your browser bookmarks, check it every time in address bar and save your login data in safe place (not online) + as an additional security measure you can use 2FA, but avoid everything that has to do with SMS (your mobile phone - SIM swapping).

Every hardware wallet gives you the option to back up your seed (24 or 12 words), and most keep it on plain paper, which is not the best option. If you make more than one backup and save them in different locations, that should be enough to insure against most unwanted situations.

My recommendation is not to move your coins until you get a hardware wallet, if you follow the advice I have given, you don't have much to worry about - and you'll save on fees that haven't been cheap lately.

[AakZaki]

currently Bitcoin has decreased quite rapidly, it's time for you to buy it. When there is Bad News you have to buy it and when there is Good News you sell it.
If you have a lot of money your decision to buy bitcoin is the right one. Buy Bitcoin and forget about it. You will target at what price your bitcoins will be sold. The current price is high, you just have to wait for it to drop and buy it. besides bitcoin you can also have other coins that have good potential such as ETH etc.

[studioman]

Thank you again for these great posts, what would I do without you guys  !!

I wanted to use at least two accounts so the money would be in different places, but like I said there's just incredible problems and obviously not enough people handling these cases. The only ones I have access are Coinmotion (Finnish service) that obviously takes 2% both ways, and Coinbase and Coinbase Pro. Maybe I'm saving in the wrong place, but Coinbase also seems to have pretty high costs and I don't know how easily I could learn to use Coinbase Pro.

So if I use a wardware wallet how do I make a backup copy? I'll search for info, but if you have a bit of time and could maybe write just quickly I'd naturally appreciate it a lot.

At the moment this is like damage limitation for me. I don't know if this is wise or not but I'm trying to buy some crypto little by little, programming some auto buys at different points and watching where this is going. Either I'll have to buy the rest at a higher price or if I'm lucky there's a bigger dip. I'll also have a bit of extra prepared for the possibility of a larger dip at some point.

I'm scared like shit to transfer the money from the exchange. Also pretty scared to keep it there  I'm really looking forward to the day I've got these done, transferred the cryptos and made backups. That's when my life starts again I hope.


 

[Renampun]

2010: It's too late. Bitcoin is too expensive

2013: It's too late. Bitcoin is too expensive

2017: It's too late. Bitcoin is too expensive

2019: It's too late. Bitcoin is too expensive

2020: It's too late. Bitcoin is too expensive

Buy 50$ every weekend and you will make good investment after 3-4 years.

buy now what every price was it will be cheap in the future.

some buy bitcoin when price was 190000 and now sold it.

*that's an investment, you don't need complicated logic, just confidence...
I didn't believe Bitcoin would touch $ 40k at all but over time the Bitcoin price continued to rise and it made me change my mindset again. as long as someone is interested in Bitcoin, no one will be able to 'kill' it.

[FanEagle]

This is great advise, thank you! I suppose there's no problem leaving the money untouched for the next 5 years. The amount I put into cryptos depends on what I believe the risk/profit relationship is. If I believe e.g. the following:

15% chance to lose all my money
25% chance to lose something, like half of it
25% chance to make as much profit as stocks/funds may make
15% chance to make quite much more than from stocks (which may always slump down)
20% to make life changing amount (if not alone by investing it to real estates with 70% loan, 30% own funding=the possible money from cryptos)

This would be enough to invest more than I originally thought. But of course I'd need to know what I'm doing and not just invest it for the sake of investing. Obviously just about all interesting pretty well-known cryptos are quite high now? I've looked at some charts and at least some have been coming down lately.

Well by that logic, this is what I would be suggesting you: You should put 15% of your money into high risk and high APY defi projects, go to binance smart chain and you will find plenty of them, 25% of your money should go to top 20- top 50 levels coins, not at top 5 yet but definitely have a future in them, 25% of your money should go towards top 10 coins, omit XRP, BCH, BSV type of centralized ones and go for eth-btc type of ones.

The other two parts that you labeled "chance to make quite much more than from stocks (which may always slump down)" and also "20% to make life changing amount " are the risky ones you mentioned in the earlier ones labeled "chance to lose all my money" because they are the ones that will give you life changing money if you are right about them or lose all your money if you are wrong about them.

[studioman]

This is great advise, thank you! I suppose there's no problem leaving the money untouched for the next 5 years. The amount I put into cryptos depends on what I believe the risk/profit relationship is. If I believe e.g. the following:

15% chance to lose all my money
25% chance to lose something, like half of it
25% chance to make as much profit as stocks/funds may make
15% chance to make quite much more than from stocks (which may always slump down)
20% to make life changing amount (if not alone by investing it to real estates with 70% loan, 30% own funding=the possible money from cryptos)

This would be enough to invest more than I originally thought. But of course I'd need to know what I'm doing and not just invest it for the sake of investing. Obviously just about all interesting pretty well-known cryptos are quite high now? I've looked at some charts and at least some have been coming down lately.

Well by that logic, this is what I would be suggesting you: You should put 15% of your money into high risk and high APY defi projects, go to binance smart chain and you will find plenty of them, 25% of your money should go to top 20- top 50 levels coins, not at top 5 yet but definitely have a future in them, 25% of your money should go towards top 10 coins, omit XRP, BCH, BSV type of centralized ones and go for eth-btc type of ones.

The other two parts that you labeled "chance to make quite much more than from stocks (which may always slump down)" and also "20% to make life changing amount " are the risky ones you mentioned in the earlier ones labeled "chance to lose all my money" because they are the ones that will give you life changing money if you are right about them or lose all your money if you are wrong about them.

Thank you so much, very detailed info so I appreciate it a lot! I'm smiling cause I feel so out of this, or should I say dumb, as I'll have to google what APY defi projects are (yeah I'll check the binance smart chain you mentioned    But yeah I could see myself gambling a bit, don't know how much, but some. I know the point is not to just gamble so I'll need to study a lot, but ultimately I won't become so good that there wouldn't be more gambling than with most (if not all) of you guys in here.

Don't take me wrong, it's not that money is burning in my pockets, but I guess I'm a bit strange and joining this later than I should've I feel I'm obliged to invest into these things. But boy they intrigue me, I just wish there was more time in the day.               

I can't thank you (and many others) enough! I'll now order the Ledger Nano S. Concerning it I'd have two more questions:

1. I transfer the cryptos straight from Kraken to it?
2. I'll try to be super careful, but any typical mistakes newcomers make to lose their money?
3. If I invest a bit in say Coinbase (two spread the cryptos to two places while I'm waiting) can I put the cryptos to the same Nano S? I won't delete it all? 
4. I've now used Kraken. Is Coinbase pro difficult to understand (if I just buy Bitcoin from it)? I read the fees in Coinbase are high so if I can avoid them easily enough that'd be nice.

       

[studioman]

~

Everyone's welcome to trading, so don't worry about that OP.
We share the same story actually, though I was lazier and I wasn't doing stocks just yet. Just an average student learning and focused on academics, not even exploring anything.
Then someone managed to introduce Bitcoin to me.
It was harder to buy one back then but since the attention to it seems like to grow a bit, I manage to get into crypto shortly.

About your question if you should put your 10k to Bitcoin, I would say that if that 10k is worth losing, which I am guessing that it's not then I would advise to keep it for now.

Thank you for your reassuring words! I guess nobody knows what will happen with Bitcoin especially in the short term, but I'll take the risk. Maybe spread some money, also timewise if I try some smaller cryptos. If it goes then it goes. It's not nice but I can live with it. It'd been much easier if I'd bought it when the value was low but now it's damage control and accpeting some extra gamble. If it crushes down at least I can hold it and buy some more and then hope it goes back up one day. So it's probably not like a complete loss instantly.

But this transfering cryptos from the exchange (and keeping them there while waiting for the hardware wallet), making backups but playing it safe with them etc. is pretty nerve wrecking.
           

[studioman]

STILL QUICK QUESTIONS TO YOU KIND SOULS 


I'm ordering a harware wallet tonight. I may keep the money in Kraken until I get it, but for piece of mind I could consider moving some of it to an online wallet.

1. Is there a particular online wallet you'd recommend?

2. Are the fees about the same between different online wallets?

2. Can I move the same cryptos (bitcoins in this case) from Kraken and the online wallet to the same harware wallet? I obviously create a different folder for each crypto so as long as I send the cryptos to the same folder (I'll read more about this) I should be safe? The cryptos won't eat each other  ?   

[carlfebz2]

STILL QUICK QUESTIONS TO YOU KIND SOULS 


I'm ordering a harware wallet tonight. I may keep the money in Kraken until I get it, but for piece of mind I could consider moving some of it to an online wallet.

1. Is there a particular online wallet you'd recommend?

2. Are the fees about the same between different online wallets?

2. Can I move the same cryptos (bitcoins in this case) from Kraken and the online wallet to the same harware wallet? I obviously create a different folder for each crypto so as long as I send the cryptos to the same folder (I'll read more about this) I should be safe? The cryptos won't eat each other  ?   

1. For bitcoins then you can make use of Electrum for erc20 then go for MEW.

2. Yes, some does have static fees and some does have dynamic basing off on the market condition.

3.Yes you can as long it does have the same designated wallet address then those sent funds will surely be credited into the same place no matter where those coins came from.

[studioman]

Thank you so much, great info! I just ordered the Nano S and selected the express shipping and they said it's come in a couple of days. So I'll probably keep the crypto in Kraken until that. One less place to pay fees and one less things to study and to make a mistake in 

I'll try to read super carefully how to transfer the cryptos from Kraken to the Nano S (and create folders etc. first). If there's an easy mistake you guys are aware I would naturally like to hear it so I can be even more careful. I'll transfer a small amount first to make sure it comes as expected. One page also suggested trying the backup option before you put any money to see one can make it work correctly. I don't know if this is a good idea or if something could go wrong because of it.     

[Lucius]

So if I use a wardware wallet how do I make a backup copy? I'll search for info, but if you have a bit of time and could maybe write just quickly I'd naturally appreciate it a lot.

When you receive the hardware wallet, you will begin the initialization process in which you will be shown 24 words that you will need to write down - and that is your backup. The whole procedure is quite simple and explained on the manufacturer's website.

At the moment this is like damage limitation for me. I don't know if this is wise or not but I'm trying to buy some crypto little by little, programming some auto buys at different points and watching where this is going. Either I'll have to buy the rest at a higher price or if I'm lucky there's a bigger dip. I'll also have a bit of extra prepared for the possibility of a larger dip at some point.

No one can tell you what will happen to the price of BTC in the coming days - currently the whole situation looks very positive, and I do not see what would cause a major correction - although BTC will react to any negative news in the markets - especially when it comes to stocks.

I'm scared like shit to transfer the money from the exchange. Also pretty scared to keep it there  I'm really looking forward to the day I've got these done, transferred the cryptos and made backups. That's when my life starts again I hope.

Caution is definitely something that is never enough when it comes to cryptocurrencies, but I have already explained to you that there is no need to panic unnecessarily because your crypto is on an exchange - if you stick to everything I have written to you.

[studioman]

Thank you very much Lucius! Excellent info, I can't say it enough how grateful I am to you and everyone else so thanks again!!

[Lucius]

studioman, you're welcome, I'm glad these tips helped - and when you get your hardware wallet, I suggest you open a new thread in Hardware Wallets, of course if you have any additional questions.

In the meantime, you can study all the important things about the hardware wallet - because the more familiar you are with the device, the easier it will be to work with it.

[FanEagle]

-snip-

Thank you so much, very detailed info so I appreciate it a lot! I'm smiling cause I feel so out of this, or should I say dumb, as I'll have to google what APY defi projects are (yeah I'll check the binance smart chain you mentioned    But yeah I could see myself gambling a bit, don't know how much, but some. I know the point is not to just gamble so I'll need to study a lot, but ultimately I won't become so good that there wouldn't be more gambling than with most (if not all) of you guys in here.

Don't take me wrong, it's not that money is burning in my pockets, but I guess I'm a bit strange and joining this later than I should've I feel I'm obliged to invest into these things. But boy they intrigue me, I just wish there was more time in the day.               

I can't thank you (and many others) enough! I'll now order the Ledger Nano S. Concerning it I'd have two more questions:

1. I transfer the cryptos straight from Kraken to it?
2. I'll try to be super careful, but any typical mistakes newcomers make to lose their money?
3. If I invest a bit in say Coinbase (two spread the cryptos to two places while I'm waiting) can I put the cryptos to the same Nano S? I won't delete it all? 
4. I've now used Kraken. Is Coinbase pro difficult to understand (if I just buy Bitcoin from it)? I read the fees in Coinbase are high so if I can avoid them easily enough that'd be nice.

Do not feel dumb about these things, finance is very difficult and also depends on luck a lot, even the richest and best investors in the world make mistakes, they even get so wrong that they actually bankrupt and governments give them bail out money like what happened 2008 and those are the "top" finance people that failed 800+ billion dollars so do not feel dumb at all if you do not know what you are doing, even the people who are experts fail.

I do not use any ledger or any other hardware wallet so I can't answer those questions but people already did answered them so you can listen to them, typical mistakes are usually investing into things you have no idea about, many newbies "hear" or read about some "potentially 10x coin!!" and so forth and they believe it, research what you are investing into before you put money into it, that is how you will know what you are getting into.

[Kasabus]

Don't make an excuse for being late, it was not on your plan either as you are focusing on the real estate investment. Because if you just see Bitcoin's potential, you are actually leaving your old stuff and switch to Bitcoin but, you never saw it.

Actually, you are not the only one having this, many new investors are in crypto, and maybe, most of these people are also struggling in the past, ignoring Bitcoin but for now, they have realized it. And this is the openness we do, we can't simply ignore the name Bitcoin now as it was really on the major talks anywhere.

[studioman]

Again such kind words, thank you for these messages! Sorry I reply a bit late, again managed to forget this in the middle of everything and chasing dips, if you can call them such at these prices    Yeah, life goes on. I've now put enough money to feel I'm involved to some extent, still looking for some dips (missed one terribly today and now it's going 1000 dollars higher).

Somebody wrote to me that he thinks I should concentrate on Bitcoin and not invest in Ethereum. I believe this guy comes from the stocks side. However, I've read a lot of interesting things about Ether so I would love to hear your thoughts about this. Also do you think the risk/price ratio might favour Ether now that Bitcoin is so high? And if Bitcoin crashes (to some extent) do you think Ether will then raise for a while? People move money from Bitcoin to it?