Someone bought BTC at $6K yesterday and the exchange wants them back

[Bttzed03]

(source)
PDAX is a licensed Philippine crypto exchange and it enforces KYC verification before anyone can trade.
Conversion rate is $1 = Php50

This is still a developing story and the user refuses to share a screenshot of the demand letter and SMS.

What would you do if you're the one in this situation? It's the exchange's fault but they might close the account of the user if refuses to give it back. They know his name and address too.

UPDATE: Here's the demand letter sent by the PDAX customer service

(source)

MORE UPDATES:
1. Chronology of events Per PDAX
2. PDAX Discusses the details on the outage

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[AB de Royse777]

Interesting. It would have been nice if we have the BTC amount. Fun to see an exchange is chasing it's customer now :-D

[pungopete468]

I don't think he has no choice but to return it just like what you have said they know his address and name. But I think it's the exchange's fault and not the user the good thing to do is to maybe give the user a reward for returning the Bitcoin but if the buyer becomes greedy well I'm not sure what will be the PDAX's move after that.

[Lorence.xD]

I don't think he has no choice but to return it just like what you have said they know his address and name. But I think it's the exchange's fault and not the user the good thing to do is to maybe give the user a reward for returning the Bitcoin but if the buyer becomes greedy well I'm not sure what will be the PDAX's move after that.

It can be disputed when a legal matter is pushed forward. In my opinion, it was the fault of the exchange and they have to compensate the person, if I were in that situation, I think that I wouldn't return it or at the least before buying that, I would take a screenshot of that buy order, the person was right in every aspect and I think that companies that makes mistakes like this should face the consequences of their mistake.

[maculeth]

how can that happen, not if the user has bought, the exchange is not entitled to any assets that have been purchased by the user?

[yazher]

Wow! so errors like this can happen to the exchanges too? well, looking forward to the result of this kind of action. This rarely happens and on that man's side, he didn't do anything wrong since everything was put clearly without any bug or glitch. I wonder how they will fix this thing and that was a huge blow for the exchange right now.

[KryptoKings]

I don't think he has no choice but to return it just like what you have said they know his address and name. But I think it's the exchange's fault and not the user the good thing to do is to maybe give the user a reward for returning the Bitcoin but if the buyer becomes greedy well I'm not sure what will be the PDAX's move after that.

He didn't cheat anyone. He saw a low sell order and bought it. It was exchange fault and alos seller's mistake.
He should nit be blamed for this.
That said, op must be considerate and return the BTC because it is not fair to take advantage of someone's mistake.

[Garmo]

This is pretty interesting, I've never seen an exchange chase down its own customer before, keep us updated.

I think they are intimidating the customer with these nonsensical messages, no way this stuff is going anywhere in court. The deck is stacked against what little cards the exchange has and the customer did everything according to their own rules. If I were in this guy's shoes, I wouldn't sweat it.

[Rikafip]

I don't think he has no choice but to return it just like what you have said they know his address and name. But I think it's the exchange's fault and not the user the good thing to do is to maybe give the user a reward for returning the Bitcoin but if the buyer becomes greedy well I'm not sure what will be the PDAX's move after that.

Why should he give BTC back just because they know his address and a name?

When you look at their TOS, I don't see on what ground they demand the BTC back, as they say that "Orders, once executed, are final and irreversible." So, if orders are indeed irreversible once executed and if PDAX is just an exchange between the two users, how come they ask money back? Then again, we heard just one side of the story as he didn't share what exactly PDAX told him is the reason for wanting the BTC back so  there might be more than he is telling us.

Anyway, strange behavior from an exchange and if it's true what that guy is saying, I would contact the lawyer and let him deal with them.

[kotajikikox]

in this case Honesty will be the Root of the situation ..

The Man violate nothing instead he is just Lucky to find low selling price and he grab the opportunity , this is nothing in difference like someone send a Bitcoin in others Address in which we can do nothing but to accept our mistake .

But if the man is honest enough and know that Bitcoin price is x10 than how much he bought it ? then he will surrender the funds.

But no one can force him to return them back because he just got lucky in checking the sell order.

[LogitechMouse]

The trader doesn't violate anything with this since it is the fault of either the seller of the system itself if that happens.
The problem with this is that the exchange has KYC and there is a bit of risk in your life if the trader chooses to not return it.

Maybe he can make an agreement with them so at least he can still get some money on it while returning or he will decide not to return. There is nothing wrong with the side of the trader but the worst case scenario here is that his life may be at risk knowing that the exchange has its email and information.

If I will not that position, I will not return it since it is the fault of the seller not the buyer.

[Jawhead999]

I don't think why he need to refuse to give more KYC since PDAX already know his name and his address, which is they know the location of this guy live... it doesn't make sense IMO.

It would be a problem if the user send fake name and fake location, so that's why the exchanges asking more KYC to validate the account.

[franky1]

maybe. just maybe.. the reddit post is just PDAX pretending one of their customers schemed them. by pretending to be a schemed customer. purely to advertise themselves.

you know hint that a exchange can give away free money now and again to get more people to sign up.

maybe its next gen social media advertising. like the last generation stuff that had facebook posts mentioning a celebrity and said 'find out how X got to retire early by gaining 1,500x income in 6 weeks'

[NeuroticFish]

"Bank error in your favor", just it's not Monopoly  
Now, I don't know what can the exchange do, the user didn't technically do anything wrong (maybe he did morally, but not technically). And Bitcoin ownership may get interesting in court.
Also the user can start complaining that a private company is misusing his personal data and it's harassing him, at least (although I don't know how this goes in the Philippines).

Anyhow, it will be fun to see how it's going to develop...

[acroman08]

I don't think he has no choice but to return it just like what you have said they know his address and name. But I think it's the exchange's fault and not the user the good thing to do is to maybe give the user a reward for returning the Bitcoin but if the buyer becomes greedy well I'm not sure what will be the PDAX's move after that.

why? them knowing this person's address and the name is not a reason to return the BTC he legally bought. them threatening to take legal actions(which is BS since there is a rule on their ToS stating that "Orders, once executed, are final and irreversible.") against the person who bought the BTC is just a way of harassing person and hopefully return the BTC without a problem.

but if the buyer becomes greedy well I'm not sure what will be the PDAX's move after that.

just like what in the photo states PDAX will be compelled to take legal action against the guy

@Bttzed03 at the moment the dollar to PHP conversion rate is $1=48php

[KonstantinosM]

And finally the KYC bites someone in the ass!

Let this be a warning. The money that you made legally, they want it back.

Well, it's bitcoin so they can't reverse the transaction themselves. I wish there was more information available. Since the exchange made the mistake they should accept responsibility. It's kind of a gray area, but the demand letter on their part is definitely the wrong way to go. They're not in a position to demand jack sh*t and that's all they should get.

[Chato1977]

I will never return that Bitcoin because it is their mistake and not the buyer , it is a legitimate exchange in which they must suffer from their own Mistakes.

[BrewMaster]

the exchange can only demand the money back and threaten the user if the user had exploited something in their platform intentionally like what a hacker would do and illegally obtained the coins.
but when the exchange itself messed up and sold the coins to that user at a discount because their platform sucks then it is their own fault and can't blame the user.

[serjent05]

Quite an interesting story.  but I wonder how this sell order went through from those buy orders? I somehow have the same view as franky1.   Anyway, applying their Terms and Condition

21. Exchange Services

v. Orders, once executed, are final and irreversible.

There is no way PDAX has the right to go after a finished transaction.  It wasn't the buyer's fault nor he exploited the platform.

[Red Pie]

The exchange may have made a mistake somewhere.  I wonder how this event will turn out.  Here, a way must be found in which neither side will be victimized. If there is no error in the user, the exchange should pay the bitcoins to the user.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

The OP did nothing wrong and should keep the coins.

As pointed out in earlier posts the exchange's ToS states that "Orders, once executed, are final and irreversible." That works both ways - if the buyer/seller screwed up OR if the exchange had a bug that allowed the sale then tough nuts: The transaction is final and cannot be reversed. A service provider cannot legally say that their ToS only applies to the user - a ToS also sets the rules for the service provider and their ToS is binding for all parties.

Unless there is an escape clause in the ToS regarding what happens due to the exchange screwing up then the exchange has to live with it.

[k@suy]

That will be the exchange flaws, it is not his fault, maybe it will up to him if he want to return it, but as far as I am concerned it is not his fault and he should not return that excess money or that whole money, but if he can't sleep because of his conscience because I'm sure those devs working in the front and back end will be the one who will be resposible either they will be fire from their work or they will be the one who will pay for it.

[meanwords]

I don't think he has no choice but to return it just like what you have said they know his address and name. But I think it's the exchange's fault and not the user the good thing to do is to maybe give the user a reward for returning the Bitcoin but if the buyer becomes greedy well I'm not sure what will be the PDAX's move after that.

He didn't cheat anyone. He saw a low sell order and bought it. It was exchange fault and alos seller's mistake.
He should nit be blamed for this.
That said, op must be considerate and return the BTC because it is not fair to take advantage of someone's mistake.

But a person's mistake, is another man's opportunity. That's how the world works, even true in trading. I believe that it's 100% at exchange fault since it's clear that the buyer didn't do anything against the exchange rules, in fact, it is stated that once a trade is done, then there's no turning back. I think what's more illegal is that they are forcing the buyer to return the money when he made the transaction legally.

[MCobian]

Sometimes there are always happen system errors on exchanges, so it really isn't the person's fault. He just saw an opportunity in a sell order,
and was very lucky to be able to buy Bitcoin at a low price. PDAX shouldn't have asked for the Bitcoin back. But maybe after calculating the losses
are quite large. Therefore PDAX asks to transfer the Bitcoin back. But if I become that person, I will return the Bitcoin. I don't want to find trouble
with other people, or ask PDAX to compensate for a system error. My advice is to resolve this problem peacefully.

[zanezane]

in this case Honesty will be the Root of the situation ..
The Man violate nothing instead he is just Lucky to find low selling price and he grab the opportunity , this is nothing in difference like someone send a Bitcoin in others Address in which we can do nothing but to accept our mistake .
But if the man is honest enough and know that Bitcoin price is x10 than how much he bought it ? then he will surrender the funds.
But no one can force him to return them back because he just got lucky in checking the sell order.

@kotajikikox said it, the man didn't violate anything but I disagree with him/her saying that the man should return it, it was error on the part of the exchange so they should be the one  that is under fire. It is not a matter of honesty because as @kotajikikox have said, the man got lucky and bought bitcoin at that price. To me, this kind of thing shouldn't have the fault of the person, it was the systems problem no matter what angle you look at it.

[Fredomago]

(source)

They have No rights to Sue the Person who bought just because they have His KYC from the first place no one told them to sell at that low price and only a once in a lifetime chances that we can take a look at this opportunities .
So why need to return back the funds?
He has all the rights to Keep the coins in his position unless this is against the PDAX rules but I'm sure there is no TOS that has been violated in this one .

[Bttzed03]

Update:

The demand letter sent by PDAX CS has been added to the OP.

This article (archive) summarized what happened from Feb. 15 to the day of the incident.

In brief:
1. Feb. 15 - announcement of planned maintenance on Feb. 17
2. Fex. 16 - all shits happened that affected user's balance in their portfolios and, around the same time, the drop of bitcoin price to around $6000
3. Feb. 17 - PDAX cited the unprecented trading volatility as the reason
4. Feb. 18 - PDAX sent demand letter to those who bought BTC at $6K saying it's "invalid accumulation of assets" then limiting customer's account/s

Feb 20 - A lawyer is helping a customer and have sent a letter to PDAX citing the trades were legit and in accordance to the PDAX ToS.

Feb 21 - PDAX issued a second statement and their version of the story but they didn't address the restricting of account/s and their demand to return.

[Murpheus]

How legit is this article??
Is it made up??
If its not....
Then if I was the buyer...
I really dunno what I would do....
Money has a lot influence....
But as a man of moral....
I would return half and keep half....
It was my advantage....
 

[Bttzed03]

How legit is this article??
Is it made up??

Did you even read it?

[posi]

How legit is this article??
Is it made up??
If its not....

It cant be a made-up story because when an exchange site is going through some certain emergency maintenance system issue like fund loss and system malfunction is what I believe that also cause the coin the buyer bought at $6K.

Then if I was the buyer...
I really dunno what I would do....
Money has a lot influence....
But as a man of moral....
I would return half and keep half....
It was my advantage....
 

You have to be kidding because the exchange we're talking about is a centralized exchange and what you just said now is against their terms and conditions. If we're talking about the decentralized exchange you can say it just your luck.

[bryant.coleman]

If he refuses to transfer back the coins, what are the options they (the exchange) have? From what I can see, the user has done nothing illegal. I am not sure whether the exchange would even consider going to the courts against the user. What they are going to tell the court regarding this? And if they get involved in court case and all, their reputation is going to take a hammering. My advice to the user is to ignore the demand letter and keep the holdings with himself.

[XZERO1]

As pointed out in earlier posts the exchange's ToS states that "Orders, once executed, are final and irreversible." That works both ways - if the buyer/seller screwed up OR if the exchange had a bug that allowed the sale then tough nuts: The transaction is final and cannot be reversed. A service provider cannot legally say that their ToS only applies to the user - a ToS also sets the rules for the service provider and their ToS is binding for all parties.

Agreed, unless there's a line in their TOS that states such orders have to be refunded to the exchange, the trader that bought Bitcoin at such a low price did nothing wrong and I believe there's a good chance that he wins if this case goes to court, the exchange probably have way better lawyers than that trader so still there's some chance of losing the case but still worth it.

The exchange messed up here and they are the ones that should be paying for their mistake somehow anyway, their customer just made 9x in that trade and specially if the amount was small as mentioned it's better for their reputation if the exchange just accepted that and moved on.

Who was the seller anyway?, it was one of those exchange trading bots that try to fake trading volume or it was a real person selling?, any information on that?

[Ultegra134]

Quite an interesting story.  but I wonder how this sell order went through from those buy orders? I somehow have the same view as franky1.   Anyway, applying their Terms and Condition

21. Exchange Services

v. Orders, once executed, are final and irreversible.

There is no way PDAX has the right to go after a finished transaction.  It wasn't the buyer's fault nor he exploited the platform.

Correct, even if they do get a lawyer against the buyer, their terms of service would contradict their claims. Thus, I doubt that any action can or will be taken against the buyer, it's probably a mere attempt to scare and intimidate him in order to return the amount of Bitcoin he purchased. In the end, if the user doesn't fall for it, it's easy to say that nothing is going to happen.

[ice098]

Quite an interesting story.  but I wonder how this sell order went through from those buy orders? I somehow have the same view as franky1.   Anyway, applying their Terms and Condition

21. Exchange Services

v. Orders, once executed, are final and irreversible.

There is no way PDAX has the right to go after a finished transaction.  It wasn't the buyer's fault nor he exploited the platform.

Correct, even if they do get a lawyer against the buyer, their terms of service would contradict their claims. Thus, I doubt that any action can or will be taken against the buyer, it's probably a mere attempt to scare and intimidate him in order to return the amount of Bitcoin he purchased. In the end, if the user doesn't fall for it, it's easy to say that nothing is going to happen.

Agree at first I didn't know this rule in their exchange, and this thing will be their loss and their end game, that person isn't be liable for what he has done because as what the rule says "Once excuted, are final and irreversible" they made this rule they should follow this and accept their huge loss from their counterpart, this will be a huge lesson for PDAX they should not make any maintenance or they should not revised their codes if they cannot put the exchange down for the meantime because it is very risky.

[androyster]

He bought the BTC fair and square.  It's his.  They aren't getting it back.  They better improve their system or go broke.

[Noctis Connor]

Actually hi is not the only one who bough bitcoin from pdax some other's too that the topic in the reddit not it was system error as you can see the price of bitcoin in pdax was $62,000 but they put $6,200 see the difference not only in the bitcoin but also in ethereum most of the investors there take advantage of it but currently there's a limit for withdrawing bitcoin you can only withdraw 1 bitcoin per day and that's the time the management knew the error because most of investors are pulling their bitcoin into another exchange website.

[Bitstar_coin]

How ironic, if the reverse was the case they won't agree to refund even if the trade was a mistake, they will say refer to the terms of condition but now they seem to very eager to collect the btc back without acknowledge their mistake, i think the trader his within his right of and comply with all the requirement for trading but since he is kyc verified and would want to avoid any further personal harassment maybe he should consider returning the btc.

[androyster]

How ironic, if the reverse was the case they won't agree to refund even if the trade was a mistake, they will say refer to the terms of condition but now they seem to very eager to collect the btc back without acknowledge their mistake, i think the trader his within his right of and comply with all the requirement for trading but since he is kyc verified and would want to avoid any further personal harassment maybe he should consider returning the btc.

I would tell them to take a hike.  Mistakes happen in business.  IE Sheet happens.  Take it on the chin and learn from your mistakes and carry on.  Good luck getting that BTC back.

[TedMosby]

"Good day! So yesterday morning started normally. I woke up and checked the PDAX trading platform..."

I have to wake up earlier every day now 


I wonder who demand to reverse the transactions, PDAX or the user who sold his bitcoin at that price.
because https://www.pdax.ph/terms says, "Orders, once executed, are final and irreversible."

how many bitcoins that he bought from that situation actually?
with this issue, I can say that PDAX dictating the market on their platform.
really bad exchange.

[taufik123]

-snip-

whereas in the said user agreement, the terms and conditions regarding orders that have been executed or have been executed are final and cannot be changed anymore. But the PDAM asked him to come back. This does look funny, try if the user is wrong in buying and buying bitcoin is too expensive, maybe nothing will be changed.

these are traits of a bad trade-off and still need development, because errors like this are very fatal.

it can be good luck that the person can buy it for $ 6k, but if the person is kind he will return it and get some proper reward for his kindness.

[hemzer]

OP can clearly publish that he has had a windfall in trading and he caught a good buy and that he is going to donate a percentage of his proceedings to some orphanages, schools and local community development. This would protect him from cutthroat intimidation from PDAX and tilt any court case into his favour.

[vapourminer]

when ethereum flash crashed on coinbase some traders made insane gains (millions USD) and some lost out. coinbase reimbursed those who lost money but let those that made money alone. in short they covered their mistake.

https://techcrunch.com/2017/06/24/coinbase-is-reimbursing-losses-caused-by-the-ethereum-flash-crash/

this exchange should follow that example and eat the loss.

[Murpheus]

You have to be kidding because the exchange we're talking about is a centralized exchange and what you just said now is against their terms and conditions. If we're talking about the decentralized exchange you can say it just your luck.

Its not as if they can track me down?
If the amount is big enough, thats enough for me to japa...
Start a new life somewhere else

[AmoreJaz]

Quite an interesting story.  but I wonder how this sell order went through from those buy orders? I somehow have the same view as franky1.   Anyway, applying their Terms and Condition

21. Exchange Services

v. Orders, once executed, are final and irreversible.

There is no way PDAX has the right to go after a finished transaction.  It wasn't the buyer's fault nor he exploited the platform.

this is what im thinking here. it was the exchange's fault in this situation. however, the user should have informed the exchange about their bug or error on the platform about their wrong pricing as he knows what is the existing market price. that is, if you don't want to take advantage of the situation. but the user clearly took advantage of this site's error. now, where are your morals here? and since the site know his credentials, they can make a move on him. however, if it is not that much. i think, the user should just return the btc, but of course, in exchange of his original funds plus maybe compensation for the trouble

[Maslate]

Their return demand is just a hope that this person will return the said amount but I think they are expecting to return it neither and probably they know already their errors. Unless, if the said person thinks about guilty(which is not) and returns it back to them.

But, If I am in that position, I let them catch me if they can. I have nothing to worried about since it was their fault(exchanger). And they can't force me to turn it back.

[milewilda]

This is an exchange error and that guy shouldnt really be giving back those coins that he had really earned, if they would give out some compensation or some slice of that amount
then that would be good but getting the whole amount then i would rather keep it for myself.Dont mind those legal actions since its their mistake after all.
That platform should take this as a lesson learned for them.

[Willitivity]

This is an exchange error and that guy shouldnt really be giving back those coins that he had really earned, if they would give out some compensation or some slice of that amount
then that would be good but getting the whole amount then i would rather keep it for myself.Dont mind those legal actions since its their mistake after all.
That platform should take this as a lesson learned for them.

I wouldn't return the BTC even if I was the guy in question because the error wasn't from the user side. Also, they keep demanding for it like it's an order for the user to comply. It's not as of that's the only exchange he/she can trade. The main problem lies in the fact that the user might have done some kyc docs with data that can be linked back to him. I would prefer they cut him a deal and reward him while acknowledging the fault from their end. Instead of claiming rights and making demands.

[posi]

You have to be kidding because the exchange we're talking about is a centralized exchange and what you just said now is against their terms and conditions. If we're talking about the decentralized exchange you can say it just your luck.

Its not as if they can track me down?

Of course, they can and according to picture posted by the OP they sent the trader that bought the Bitcoin both sms and email which mean he have already done the exchange KYC/AML using his identity card and address.

If the amount is big enough, thats enough for me to japa...
Start a new life somewhere else

Start a new life elsewhere while you live a life of a criminal. What you said is a statement of people that don't believe they can make it and the last time I check you can make much more in months if you train yourself to be a Dev.

[Murpheus]

Start a new life elsewhere while you live a life of a criminal. What you said is a statement of people that don't believe they can make it and the last time I check you can make much more in months if you train yourself to be a Dev.

So you would return the funds is what you try to say??

They wouldn't be that fortunate enough to grab me...
Anyways it would depend on the constitution of the country in question....

[Fatunad]

Start a new life elsewhere while you live a life of a criminal. What you said is a statement of people that don't believe they can make it and the last time I check you can make much more in months if you train yourself to be a Dev.

So you would return the funds is what you try to say??

They wouldn't be that fortunate enough to grab me...
Anyways it would depend on the constitution of the country in question....

When it comes to laws and legal matters then this would really be varying on countries situation because not all would really be that strict but
if that platform or exchange will really be eager or serious on dealing up with things then he might really be facing up some problem.
Im just wondering if he can really have some fight since its really on exchange mistake so therefore this will depend on op
if he would be taking those or would mind of being ethical or would definitely just ignore and spend up those money.

[BuNga_cute]

It is rare for exchanges to experience such an error, and indeed in this case the user is not at fault. Supposedly, if the exchange wants their Bitcoin
back, it must compensate the user. So this problem can be resolved peacefully, indeed in the end the exchange will suffer losses. But that's the risk of
a mistake, if the exchange wants the user to return the whole thing that won't happen. Because from the start the user is innocent, the user is lucky
only due to a system error.

[Tstar]

I don't think he has no choice but to return it just like what you have said they know his address and name. But I think it's the exchange's fault and not the user the good thing to do is to maybe give the user a reward for returning the Bitcoin but if the buyer becomes greedy well I'm not sure what will be the PDAX's move after that.

What if they have their address and name? Is this exchange a part of a mob clan or something?!

Of course they could do something - sue with the exchange if there is nothing in the TOS about order price deviation and cancelation! This is not his fault. If this was a DEX, you couldn't do a thing!

[Smartvirus]

Why should he give BTC back just because they know his address and a name?

When you look at their TOS, I don't see on what ground they demand the BTC back, as they say that "Orders, once executed, are final and irreversible." So, if orders are indeed irreversible once executed and if PDAX is just an exchange between the two users, how come they ask money back?

I agree with you on this. Another way to look at it is, what if the tables were turned, what if the user was the one making this demand. Would the PDAX team have complied? This goes above a normal compliant to support, should the transactions have gone on within there terms of service, then, it could be said to be the users lucky day and they should live with it.

Then again, we heard just one side of the story as he didn't share what exactly PDAX told him is the reason for wanting the BTC back so  there might be more than he is telling us.

Anyway, strange behavior from an exchange and if it's true what that guy is saying, I would contact the lawyer and let him deal with them.

The reason was stated there by the PDAX team and it says overdraw, probably, there was a limiting withdrawal amount according to how i understand this and should it be that due to some technical issues, that limit was by passed, its not the users fault and besides, they have no right over his or her coin. They should just look out to tightening there loosed ends.

[darkangel11]

They have No rights to Sue the Person who bought just because they have His KYC from the first place no one told them to sell at that low price and only a once in a lifetime chances that we can take a look at this opportunities .
So why need to return back the funds?
He has all the rights to Keep the coins in his position unless this is against the PDAX rules but I'm sure there is no TOS that has been violated in this one .

You don't know how suing works. You always have the right to sue someone. You can even sue a neighbor who farts loud or if his dog shits on the pavement outside your window.
He doesn't have to return anything it's his choice. I would have to decide depending on the amount of coins that I withdrew. Usually the site owner is responsible for any mistakes and if the user returns the money it's an act of good will and should be rewarded by the exchange. They should negotiate with him not threaten him.

[wxa7115]

I don't think he has no choice but to return it just like what you have said they know his address and name. But I think it's the exchange's fault and not the user the good thing to do is to maybe give the user a reward for returning the Bitcoin but if the buyer becomes greedy well I'm not sure what will be the PDAX's move after that.

I do not think it is as clear cut as you make it out to be, if this was the result of some bug then that may be the end result especially if that is specified within the TOS of that exchange, however if this was a mistake on their end and the user legitimately bought those coins and simply took advantage of the cheap price that was shown then this is going to be way more difficult for the exchange to prove they have a right on those coins.

Also it will depend on the amount of money we are talking about, for an exchange to do this I suppose the amount is large in which case the user could hire legal representation if he really believes those coins belong to him.

[Twentyonepaylots]

I believe there is more to this than what both the person who bought and PDAX is telling on the surface. Mostly of cpurse on PDAX's end, because there's no way you're going to hack an exchange of that degree, moreso one that is based in your own country unless you have balls of steel, or you really want to experience the other side of a jail. In my opinion the guy has all the rights in his bitcoin and PDAX does not have any valid reason to incarcerate him since it was their fault anyway.

[Lauren Smith]

If they closed trading right after your trade doesn't that mean they basically stole other users' funds since they cannot trade them? You not giving us enough info. So they shut down the website soon after the trading and stole users' money? Am I right? If so then just tell them to piss off.

There is nothing they can do but make threats. Making threats is a bad way to get something from someone btw. They should have just asked nicely for it but instead, they threaten you. Tell them to get bent and enjoy your bitcoin.

Even if somehow they did manage to take you to court it will cost them so much time and money and could go on for months. No one can make you send the bitcoin, only you can. Tough shit for them.


If someone ever threatens you, you have every right to defend yourself.

Btw do not worry if they know who you are with KYC. It means very little.

[Questat]

I believe there is more to this than what both the person who bought and PDAX is telling on the surface. Mostly of cpurse on PDAX's end, because there's no way you're going to hack an exchange of that degree, moreso one that is based in your own country unless you have balls of steel, or you really want to experience the other side of a jail. In my opinion the guy has all the rights in his bitcoin and PDAX does not have any valid reason to incarcerate him since it was their fault anyway.

If they are going to blackmail the said person just to give it back, it still won't work because there is no illegality been made, it was buying order and it filled instantly. And this might be the reason also that triggers that person not to give it back.  PDAX should be kind to this guy, the team could ask for some mercy and to give way the return of the said amount. But if this never works, they should have to move on, they can't force him anyway since it was their fault and this guy is just a lucky person.

[CryptoCarlos]

Check out the Google Play Store reviews for the PDAX app. Most users complain that they shut down the app/website for 2h daily for maintainance, lol.

[rat03gopoh]

What puzzled me, why would anyone sell bitcoin for $ 6k and then Pdax so desperate to offer legal recourse threats if there were no complaints from other customers about input errors?

At this point, the exchange's liquidity needs to be questioned.

[xSkylarx]

If I were that user who bought bitcoin at that price I would definitely not return it unless we can agree to some terms. It is their system's fault anyway and did not violate or did something bad on their platform. It is just like when you order to a fast-food then you get more than what you ordered or paid, the staffs there would be liable and it would be deducted from their salary. If they force the user to return the amount of bitcoin he bought, they could lose reputation as well as their customers because in the first place they didn't secure well their website.

[Issa56]

Waw this is kind of funny and have not heard anything like this before. Since you did not violation any of there rules I see no reason why they have to request for there bitcoin back since you bought with your own fund and you did not pass true any illegal process since you bought the coin already and you paid for it I think they have to bear the lost and not chasing you SmS trying to take legal action. Have not even seen any exchange demanding for return of coin after buying it that's kind of funny I think you have to avoid the exchange. If am the one that bought the coin I will definitely not going to return the coin because have not done anything illegal to purchase the coin I followed the due process and I don't think there is any legal charges they can use against me because I didn't do anything illegal I follow the due process.

[Ultegra134]

What puzzled me, why would anyone sell bitcoin for $ 6k and then Pdax so desperate to offer legal recourse threats if there were no complaints from other customers about input errors?

At this point, the exchange's liquidity needs to be questioned.

Correct, at this point I would also question the exchange's trustworthiness. A similar incident had happened on Coinbase with an Ethereum incident a few years ago. They ended up taking the loss. I'm not fond of Coinbase, their support sucks, but they stood up for it. Since their TOS mentions that all trades are final, nothing can be done. Trying to intimidate a user to return the bought Bitcoin is a big red flag for them as a business.

[Reatim]

What would you do if you're the one in this situation? It's the exchange's fault but they might close the account of the user if refuses to give it back. They know his name and address too.

I wonder why he did buy the small amount for such a price. I would buy for all money I have,  taking first the screenshot of the order on their site.  Man didn't hack their service, he honestly paid what they requested, what’s the matter with him. I would not care of their request to send BTC back .

for sure he has no funds to buy more because if he has? i know that he'' Buy everything that he can .
or maybe there is only small amount ready that time and when he try checking again , the system return back to normal so he did not get another chance.
and if OP had already withdrawn all the PDAX funds in his name ? better not to return back the funds and just move on to other exchange .
But this is if he is not an Honest person , because if he has a good conscience He will not ask for advise and return the amount right away.

[buwaytress]

I somehow recall a past big buy from a business from an exchange, involving Ether that was bought at a ridiculously cheap price. Took it to courts, naturally, and I think in that instance the courts sided with the exchange and the buyer was forced to return the assets because the price was a mistake.

User in this instance would probably have a fight on his hands but I don't see how a legal court would rule in his favour. Fairness comes into play here, as well as intent.

[posi]

Start a new life elsewhere while you live a life of a criminal. What you said is a statement of people that don't believe they can make it and the last time I check you can make much more in months if you train yourself to be a Dev.

So you would return the funds is what you try to say??

They wouldn't be that fortunate enough to grab me...
Anyways it would depend on the constitution of the country in question....

When it comes to laws and legal matters then this would really be varying on countries situation because not all would really be that strict but
if that platform or exchange will really be eager or serious on dealing up with things then he might really be facing up some problem.
Im just wondering if he can really have some fight since its really on exchange mistake so therefore this will depend on op
if he would be taking those or would mind of being ethical or would definitely just ignore and spend up those money.

You are totally right and if Murpheus read the exchange rules and legal matters it against all that he said. Although, the fault was from the site ending cause they ought to have discontinued trading activities before the security upgrade begins.
Straight from the shoulder, what Murpheus said is not right cause the BTC belongs to an innocent user of the exchange.

[MIner1448]

I still don’t understand in any way, but how such a price came out to $ 6,000 for bitcoin, is this a mistake from the exchange itself? .. If it’s a mistake, then the exchange will not do anything here, especially since the exchange is not bad, it just hit its reputation because of this incident. So the user was lucky to hike, took his cutlet))

[Bttzed03]

More updates/details to the incident:

PDAX Press Conference: Exchange Discusses Outage in Detail

^ It started with a glitch causing an unfunded order to be matched by other buyers and then one thing led to another.

~ User in this instance would probably have a fight on his hands but I don't see how a legal court would rule in his favour. Fairness comes into play here, as well as intent.

It looks like this will be handled in court as PDAX stated they would welcome lawsuits and I'm assuming they are referring to the accounts they restricted as a result of the "invalid accumulation of assets"

[semobo]

More updates/details to the incident:

PDAX Press Conference: Exchange Discusses Outage in Detail

^ It started with a glitch causing an unfunded order to be matched by other buyers and then one thing led to another.

~ User in this instance would probably have a fight on his hands but I don't see how a legal court would rule in his favour. Fairness comes into play here, as well as intent.

It looks like this will be handled in court as PDAX stated they would welcome lawsuits and I'm assuming they are referring to the accounts they restricted as a result of the "invalid accumulation of assets"

Since it was already withdrawn by the user then it is not possible to take them back unless user agrees to pay it but exchanges may ask most part of it and let the user to have remaining as a reward for honest or something can be appreciated because it was bought with no violation and exchanges shouldn't blame users for taking advantage of it.

[Ultegra134]

More updates/details to the incident:

PDAX Press Conference: Exchange Discusses Outage in Detail

^ It started with a glitch causing an unfunded order to be matched by other buyers and then one thing led to another.

~ User in this instance would probably have a fight on his hands but I don't see how a legal court would rule in his favour. Fairness comes into play here, as well as intent.

It looks like this will be handled in court as PDAX stated they would welcome lawsuits and I'm assuming they are referring to the accounts they restricted as a result of the "invalid accumulation of assets"

Would love to see how this incident escalates in the end. This case will probably end up in court, since both sides are claiming their side of their story as correct. The exchange is referring it to a glitch, which I am unsure of how this can be proved, while the users are implying that it was a valid transaction from his point.

[matchi2011]

This is another exchange malfunction and this is not the first time, the ops have every legal right to hold on the the bitcoin he bought from that platform after all is they responsibility to also put all trading on hold before upgrading and possible software on the site to avoid this kind of accident.

Why this exchange let this things go, consider it as failure from their side. The owner of the coin don't have the responsibility, inside exchange every second that you got chance to buy low then you should grab it.

Let go and learn from this incident, the exchange should treat it as loses due to their mistake/bugs. No need to pushed the person
to send it back as he just take his chance.

[cheezcarls]

You may also read this one guys: https://mb.com.ph/2021/02/26/pdax-2-asks-what-do-you-mean-by-unfunded-transactions/

Just saw this from NEM Philippines CEO Emerson Fonseca’s Facebook post.

Good thing that one of my friends has just cashed out his coins to another wallet before this incident happened. I never had a PDAX account, although that I did consider to create one last year.

Oh well, it looks like that their image as a digital asset exchange is gonna be ruined. This is what centralized exchanges are made of. Not your keys, not your coins.                                         

[jacafbiz]

The first thing he needs to do is to study the terms and conditions on the exchange if it includes this type of issue, if not do not hurry to refund the BTC because it is a free market, if something is offered to me at a price and I accepted the offer then the transaction is legit. Try as much as possible to involve your lawyer for better understand of the law. I don't think the exchange will give the person that sold his/her BTC at that price their BTC again

[imstillthebest]

300k php is 6,140.65k if converted to dollar at the current rate which is a nice amount but if im on his situation i think i will not deposit back the btc because i pay for it and i have no violations whatsoever . im okay if they will close my account and im confident if withdraw all the funds but the problem is if they have my kyc but like  i said earlier why will i be afraid if im on the right track ? they are the ones that must be afraid for doing this things  . the next time i will not going to trade on that exchange but try to look for a more reputable exchange .

[molsewid]

The first thing he needs to do is to study the terms and conditions on the exchange if it includes this type of issue, if not do not hurry to refund the BTC because it is a free market, if something is offered to me at a price and I accepted the offer then the transaction is legit. Try as much as possible to involve your lawyer for better understand of the law. I don't think the exchange will give the person that sold his/her BTC at that price their BTC again

based on the rules and regulation that came from the PDAX it says that any transaction are irreversible once you initiate so they (PDAX) will break their own rule that they are the one who made. I don't know but it is hard to send back the amount maybe that person already cashout the money or if PDAX really want to get it back they should freeze the account so the money will still be in the account but that will be another breach of contract.

[arwin100]

This is another exchange malfunction and this is not the first time, the ops have every legal right to hold on the the bitcoin he bought from that platform after all is they responsibility to also put all trading on hold before upgrading and possible software on the site to avoid this kind of accident.

Why this exchange let this things go, consider it as failure from their side. The owner of the coin don't have the responsibility, inside exchange every second that you got chance to buy low then you should grab it.

Let go and learn from this incident, the exchange should treat it as loses due to their mistake/bugs. No need to pushed the person
to send it back as he just take his chance.

They never let this thing happen as they didn't aware that there's a big happening that's why some of their users bough some bitcoins at cheap rate.

And they cannot really force their costumer to refund the bitcoins bought since it's legitimately bought on their platform and for this current happening it show that pdax is not really a good provider since they sue there costumers for their own negligence. Maybe the best thing they do after that is they fix what really need to fix and move on, they should think that it's a compensation for the users who found that bug to erase the stress on that happenings.

[roosbit]

 This sounds almost like a bookie quoting 100 odds for a Barcelona win against a weaker team and you bet on this which plays out in your favor but after the bookie realizing this mistake you already withdrew these funds and they request for their funds back.... man this issue you have at hand, I honestly think you don't owe the exchange any dime, but that demand later interprets something different from what actually happened....

[TopTort777]

Wonder how this guy is doing. I think that exchange will put attention on a glitch/bug/hack and force to return funds, scaring the guy with law and lawyers.

I was this guy, I would have sold Bitcoin at current market price and return them 6000 USDT. Sad to see that this is one-way business. If he would bought BTC at $66k and address to exchange, they would say this is his own mistake.

[buwaytress]

~ User in this instance would probably have a fight on his hands but I don't see how a legal court would rule in his favour. Fairness comes into play here, as well as intent.

It looks like this will be handled in court as PDAX stated they would welcome lawsuits and I'm assuming they are referring to the accounts they restricted as a result of the "invalid accumulation of assets"

Yeah, like I said, the courts would definitely almost always rule in favour of "fairness" and "intent". If it's a technical glitch, there is no intent so that trade would be reversed. Surprised actually PDAX doesn't have insurance for these kinds of events -- thought it was the industry standard for any type of execution based platform.

[LogitechMouse]

UPDATE: Here's the demand letter sent by the PDAX customer service

(source)

Most of the times, its the traders who are making this kind of mistake (mistakenly selling it at a lower price or vice versa). Now it is the complete opposite of it. The exchange is chasing the traders.

Now they've sent a demand letter to those traders and what will they do if the traders will not give back the BTC?? They will send death threats to them?? They will chase them anywhere in the world?? At first place its the fault of the exchange to have glitches. If they only have a better IT personnel, this would've been prevented. What if we will reverse the situation. What if the trader made a mistake, will the exchange give back his/her money because he made a mistake?? I don't think so.

If there will be traders who are either honest or scared of their lives or anything related to it then I think they will give it back but I don't think that many will return it .

[dupee419]

Hey, it's not like it's the traders fault, he/she should make up for this, because it wasn't his fault in the first place, and not his fault for buying it at a low price, or let's say at a glitched price, it's probably a bug from the exchange, but again, the exchange should make a compensation for this, not only to bring the bought BTC back but to at least give something to the trader when it is not his fault in the first place.

Although, since PDAX has made changes to his/her account, he has probably no choice but to give it back, either give it back or demand something or give a condition to the exchange for having him return what he bought, again, it's not his fault in the first place.

[Obito]

Hey, it's not like it's the traders fault, he/she should make up for this, because it wasn't his fault in the first place, and not his fault for buying it at a low price, or let's say at a glitched price, it's probably a bug from the exchange, but again, the exchange should make a compensation for this, not only to bring the bought BTC back but to at least give something to the trader when it is not his fault in the first place.

Although, since PDAX has made changes to his/her account, he has probably no choice but to give it back, either give it back or demand something or give a condition to the exchange for having him return what he bought, again, it's not his fault in the first place.

If it is not his fault then that person shouldn't make up for it, making up for something that isn't your fault is a paradox of itself. The person shouldn't just get the bitcoin back but they also have to compensate the person because they try to blame the person for their mistake. If I were in that position, I would stand my ground because I know that I didn't do anything wrong.

[Flor1982]

Let's say that Bitcoin is legal in the Philippines, but they can't call that those are stolen Bitcoin except if there is an agreement or policy in case of a system error like this. But I think there is none; therefore, if I were him, I would not return the purchased Bitcoin, especially if I have already converted it to fiat because they still need to prove that what I did is stealing or buying them illegally.

[so98nn]

Well what to say about the errors! Citi bank sent 900 million dollars mistakenly to wrong accounts and they got to keep it.

PDAX and crypto stuff is all decentralised and thus stands for low percentage of winning the dispute if any. This will never happen though. Pdax know this very well that it’s their own mistake or exchanger error. Even if the case is lodged then also user won’t get hampered since he can prove that he just followed the normal buy and sell process with whatever price was offered to him. 

[Altcoinsintel]

I remember a post I've read in bitcointalk about a guy having bought Bitcoin at $0.10 in MtGox after hackers managed to access most of the exchange accounts and were dumping Bitcoin. This guy was forced to pay the Bitcoin back to MtGox. There should be rules that the user has accepted that state the obvious. Any kind of bug abuse that will result in buying very lower than the actual price will not look good and since there is KYC in this exchange they will take the Bitcoin back one way or another.