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Author Topic: Double and triple check the coin makers lists if possible when buying / selling.  (Read 252 times)
DaveF
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February 21, 2021, 02:18:25 PM
 #1

Just because it just happened to me.
I sold this coin: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5316046 (10k funded doge) and it turned out to be buyer funded.
Was not on the CI list and neither I or the buyer checked that it was not an original CI till it was in his hands.

Now I look like an ass and he is stressed that he sent me BTC for a coin that is not really worth what he paid since we don't know who funded it and who has the private keys.
 
Double and triple check the coin makers lists if possible when buying / selling funded coins.

Can save you a bunch of stress later in life.

-Dave

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blucepheus
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February 21, 2021, 02:37:03 PM
Last edit: February 21, 2021, 02:59:27 PM by blucepheus
 #2

Just because it just happened to me.
I sold this coin: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5316046 (10k funded doge) and it turned out to be buyer funded.
Was not on the CI list and neither I or the buyer checked that it was not an original CI till it was in his hands.

Now I look like an ass and he is stressed that he sent me BTC for a coin that is not really worth what he paid since we don't know who funded it and who has the private keys.
 
Double and triple check the coin makers lists if possible when buying / selling funded coins.

Can save you a bunch of stress later in life.

-Dave


Building on this, since I was the buyer in this transaction.

Disclaimer: DaveF is a heck of a guy and this should not reflect poorly on him. It was an innocent mistake. In this deal, there was no escrow, and Dave had this on the way to me in less than 24 hours. Dave remedied immediately by refunding my purchase. I would not hesitate to work with Dave again in a transaction of any size.

Here's what I've learned from CryptoImperator:

CI sold some DIY coins, which are different from a regular CI-assembled coin. A DIY coin is one in which the buyer generates the private key and assembles the coin. The most significant concern here, from the second buyer's perspective, is the private key at one point was in possession of someone else -- not CI, so the integrity of the key has been compromised.

Identifying a DIY:

- CI etched 'DIY' into the hologram just below the address window (biggest giveaway, but difficult to see in photos)
- The font in the address window is different than a CI-loaded coin. It's obvious here, with an authentic CI on the left, and DIY on the right: https://ibb.co/zQ18xJW
- The hologram may sit differently on the coin than a legitimate CI-loaded coin

The source of truth is CI's Coin Explorer, which contains all of the wallet addresses to coins that he personally distributed: https://cryptoimperator.com/coin-addresses. If the wallet address does not appear there, then it is likely a DIY (or worse, a fake), and buyer beware.

This warning extends to all coins -- not just CI's.

-bc

I will never discuss the sale of Collectibles on Telegram or any other messaging client outside the forum. Beware of scammers.
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February 21, 2021, 02:50:03 PM
Last edit: February 21, 2021, 03:10:21 PM by blucepheus
Merited by krogothmanhattan (1)
 #3

Also note this thread, which serves as a master list of lists:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2022902.0

I will never discuss the sale of Collectibles on Telegram or any other messaging client outside the forum. Beware of scammers.
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February 21, 2021, 02:55:43 PM
 #4

I have dealt with Dave for years..never had to do escrow and he always came thru with the correct items.

Mistakes happen and this an oversight that could have happened to the best of us.


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Let me know what you think about this? Character limits are exact and I have tested the signatures as well
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February 21, 2021, 03:11:48 PM
 #5

And to make things even more complicated for new people and some who forgot over the years there is no standard.

With some makers like smoothie / lealana have coins marked buyer funded but that just was him saying 'unfunded'.  
The buyer could fund them once they got them but may or may not have. However, the buyer did not have the private key. That was created by smoothie and sealed under the hologram before it shipped. All the buyer got was the BTC address to fund.

On the other side is Cryptolator where almost all were sold unfunded but none were marked that way. They were all shipped pre-made, but some few were funded by him.

Others may vary....

Have a headache yet?

-Dave

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February 21, 2021, 11:45:25 PM
Merited by DaveF (2), Hox (1)
 #6

Just as a note, only two of my coins had DIY versions:

2014 10.000 Doge Normal Edition (Unnumbered)

2014 10.000 Bits Normal Edition (Unnumbered)


All the rest were assembled by Crypto Imperator, and all funded by CI, hope this helps clarify Wink
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February 22, 2021, 12:36:14 AM
 #7

The other point about "buyer funded" marked coins and others is that unless you have have FULL address you really don't know.

With all due respect to the makers of coins,
Vanitygen [ https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=25804.0 ]
and
Vanityserarch [ https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5112311.0 ] and related apps are a big part of the problem.

I can generate a 7 digit (8 with the 1) in an hour or two depending on luck. Others with more powerful rigs can do it faster.

Without the physical coin / hologram being marked with a 2nd # that can be traced back to some public list, you just don't know.

Picking on smoothie / lealana again (sorry) all you can see on the back of the coin is an address 1abcdefg If it's marked buyer funded till you peel it and check the key there is no way of knowing if the address is 1abcdefghijklm... or 1bacdefg12345678...  But with vaintygen I can generate my own address with the same firstbits and you will never know till it's too late.

Kialara shows the full address, Cryptolator has a semi-complete public list and has a card with the full address and the coin number on it (yeah you could forge it but that is a lot more work) others coin makers vary. Something like the Genesis coins have the coin number etched on the coin itself and a public address list with full addresses.

Check everything. When BTC was $250 it's one thing @ $56000+ it's an entirely different story.

Any coin that is only showing a limited number of firstbits that you cannot dig more deeper into the full address be wary.

-Dave

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February 22, 2021, 03:23:20 AM
 #8

Yeah, I love the Lealana's, but it makes Buyer Funded coins basically unsalable, which is a shame. But I know I would never buy one, too risky. First bits made sense in 2013 ( sort of), but with a modern rig making an 8 digit address is childs play, I did it for my Vanity address in a few hours.

Bitcoin is the greatest form of protest there is. Vote in the only way that really counts: with your money.
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February 22, 2021, 03:58:09 AM
Last edit: February 22, 2021, 04:12:24 AM by blucepheus
 #9

Yeah, I love the Lealana's, but it makes Buyer Funded coins basically unsalable, which is a shame. But I know I would never buy one, too risky. First bits made sense in 2013 ( sort of), but with a modern rig making an 8 digit address is childs play, I did it for my Vanity address in a few hours.

Do all buyer-funded Lealanas display 'BUYER FUNDED' on them?

I will never discuss the sale of Collectibles on Telegram or any other messaging client outside the forum. Beware of scammers.
Room101
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February 22, 2021, 04:13:21 AM
Merited by blucepheus (2)
 #10


How does someone distinguish between a buyer-funded and Smoothie-funded Lealana?

Buyer Funded is stamped on the hologram in big black letters. Smoothie did fund some stamped with Buyer Funded I believe, but it's all too hard to keep track of now, so I only buy the ones without it.

Bitcoin is the greatest form of protest there is. Vote in the only way that really counts: with your money.
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February 22, 2021, 01:14:38 PM
Last edit: February 22, 2021, 08:33:52 PM by DaveF
Merited by krogothmanhattan (1)
 #11

Yeah, I love the Lealana's, but it makes Buyer Funded coins basically unsalable, which is a shame. But I know I would never buy one, too risky. First bits made sense in 2013 ( sort of), but with a modern rig making an 8 digit address is childs play, I did it for my Vanity address in a few hours.

Do all buyer-funded Lealanas display 'BUYER FUNDED' on them?

They were supposed to. With the ones I bought from him Smoothie did not ship till they were funded. I don't know if he was 100% strict with everyone.

I have said it before a few times in the forum but:

Do you know who produced the holograms? and how many were made? and if they are all accounted for?
How difficult would it be for a dishonest person at the printer to print out an extra roll of holograms, then buy the funded coins, peel & copy the private key and paste them back on and sell them?

How much time / work would it be for a dishonest person at a grading house to get a roll of the holograms printed for all the popular coins and then peel / copy / re-apply as they come in. With a few exceptions [like the one that started this thread, "because it's doge, never going to be worth much"] none of my funded coins have been anyplace except from the maker to me. That is my level of risk tolerance. YMMV. And even that does not make your funds safe. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3315347.0

-Dave

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