"be your own bank" does it also mean be your own central bank ?

[corpsejunior]

Bitcoin is smashing ceiling after ceiling and becomes the new gold and here is why :
- the rush for buying and HODL has all of the classical gold rush
- Many friends of mine think today Bitcoin is just untouchable/unreachable (even a small portion will be assimilated to dust and fees doesn't help in this equation)
- Bitcoin is increasingly indivisible. In fact, I think fees should never go past 10% of a transaction. That makes the smallest sendable amount should be 10 times 20000 satoshis for ~ 2000 sat fees (assuming 180 bytes by ~ 10 sat, which is very optimistic). 20 000 sat will be big money at some point, according to BTC price chart.
- Gold is universal and shitcoins will never replace Bitcoin as long as they are not a verifiable descendant of Bitcoin.

My question : is Bitcoin spendable in the first place ? Is it designed for and only for HODL, to provide a proof of wealth/stake ?

The second : I always heard the "be your own bank" among crypto features. Will the next step is to be your own CENTRAL bank ?

By this, should there be a feeless coin where every person holding some BTC (say 0.01) can issue its coin which should have a total market cap equivalent to his holding in BTC ?
As soon as all the coins are accumulated by one person, this one can take over the private keys of the wallet holding the on chain BTC. This way every person will also be his own central bank and issues his own currency and thus, extending the "be your own bank" story to the central bank definition too.

I think the story of humanity with money is like this : first we value gold, then we issue money according to this gold.
(I prefer not to mention the third step which is equivalent to the 1934 Gold Reserve Act effectively converting gold from a currency to a commodity).


Your inputs are welcome.

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[DdmrDdmr]

<…> is Bitcoin spendable in the first place ? Is it designed for and only for HODL, to provide a proof of wealth/stake ?

Of course it’s spendable, although the number of commerce’s you can actually use it in directly may not be that large, many others resort to using gateways to perform the action. Still, the total amount of accepting commerce’s is very small in comparison to fiat.
Nevertheless, the core focus is currently set on speculation (or store of value as some would see it), and whilst the price continues to fluctuate so much, the core focus is going to be here.

The second : I always heard the "be your own bank" among crypto features. Will the next step is to be your own CENTRAL bank ?
By this, should there be a feeless coin where every person holding some BTC (say 0.01) can issue its coin which should have a total market cap equivalent to his holding in BTC ?<…>

It would be pretty balmy if everyone issued their own coin "backed" by the bitcoins they had. You can’t have millions of shitcoins and expect it to be of any use (the "backed" feature would be non-enforceable), so if acontemplating a Bable Tower of personal issued coins wasn’t enough, there’d be no way to guarantee their supply nor their backed by amount. Pretty wild…

[avikz]

My question : is Bitcoin spendable in the first place ? Is it designed for and only for HODL, to provide a proof of wealth/stake ?

Why not! It's very much spendable provided there is another party ready to take it! You won't need a mediator like bank here and you can directly send the bitcoin to anyone's account id. As sim0le as that! I am not sure why you even have such questions!

The second : I always heard the "be your own bank" among crypto features. Will the next step is to be your own CENTRAL bank ?

This statement simply says, you do not require a middleman to send money to anyone! If you own the private key, you own the money and no one else does! I am not sure what do you mean by "Central Bank" here! On a funnier side, if you are a miner, you can call yourself a central bank!

[Oshosondy]

My question : is Bitcoin spendable in the first place ? Is it designed for and only for HODL, to provide a proof of wealth/stake ?

Yes, bitcoin is a currency and can be spent. Bitcoin is all in all, it is also an asset.

The second : I always heard the "be your own bank" among crypto features. Will the next step is to be your own CENTRAL bank ?

The statement to be your own bank means you can independently save bitcoin on your own without depending on third parties generally, not only banks, but also not depending on exchanges and others but you to have your private key which makes this a reality.

By this, should there be a feeless coin where every person holding some BTC (say 0.01) can issue its coin which should have a total market cap equivalent to his holding in BTC ?

There are coins like that, but not everyone will hold their different coin because the value in a coin is its marketcap, if a coin is not supported by people buying it, it will remain a worthless coin.

[corpsejunior]

Of course it’s spendable, although the number of commerce’s you can actually use it in directly may not be that large, many others resort to using gateways to perform the action. Still, the total amount of accepting commerce’s is very small in comparison to fiat.
Nevertheless, the core focus is currently set on speculation (or store of value as some would see it), and whilst the price continues to fluctuate so much, the core focus is going to be here.

Of course it's spendable as you are describing.
But I'm talking about the minimum amount spent without paying as much as fees. I don't think spending 10$ + paying 10$ in fees on it is a good spending manner.

It would be pretty balmy if everyone issued their own coin "backed" by the bitcoins they had. You can’t have millions of shitcoins and expect it to be of any use (the "backed" feature would be non-enforceable), so if acontemplating a Bable Tower of personal issued coins wasn’t enough, there’d be no way to guarantee their supply nor their backed by amount. Pretty wild…

The community can always verify that the backing address always contain the correct BTC amount.
I agree this is so ugly, I'm not even sure if it's a good way to tackle the fees limitation (let's be OK that 2000 sat of fees is not sustainable at all as BTC grows).

Also the issue you are pointing is exactly the same when some central banks go rogue or overprint their fiat currency or go bankrupt. The same applies for BTC-backed currencies, since the logic I'm aiming is the same as for central banks.

Each coin should comply with the BTC-backing requirements so I doesn't simply sink.

[Upgrade00]

But I'm talking about the minimum amount spent without paying as much as fees. I don't think spending 10$ + paying 10$ in fees on it is a good spending manner.

Of course, no one would want to pay above 10% as fees for a transaction, limiting Bitcoin's usage as a medium of exchange especially for much smaller transactions. There are options for reducing the fees paid such as segwit, consolidating, lightening network etc; but these methods have yet to efficiently eliminate high fees especially at times of high network activity. If you're holding, it's better to apply those means of reducing fees.

<snip>
Each coin should comply with the BTC-backing requirements so I doesn't simply sink.

Bitcoin does not have any requirements. It is a decentralized technology with no central authority. A system which redeems ANOTHER currency backed in Bitcoin would go against the core values of Bitcoin.

[corpsejunior]

This statement simply says, you do not require a middleman to send money to anyone! If you own the private key, you own the money and no one else does! I am not sure what do you mean by "Central Bank" here! On a funnier side, if you are a miner, you can call yourself a central bank!

This statement simply says, you do not require a middleman to send money to anyone! If you own the private key, you own the money and no one else does! I am not sure what do you mean by "Central Bank" here! On a funnier side, if you are a miner, you can call yourself a central bank!

By a central bank I mean authority of printing money, ie issuing banknotes.
But yeah miners are central bank for Bitcoin, if we consider BTC as a currency. which is what I'm questioning in fact. Today I can't buy a bottle of milk with BTC because fees will be worth 4 bottles of milk. (I can do but it's totally a waste)

Why not! It's very much spendable provided there is another party ready to take it! You won't need a mediator like bank here and you can directly send the bitcoin to anyone's account id. As sim0le as that! I am not sure why you even have such questions!

But this vision is a Forex trading one. I'm doing a projection where cryptocurrencies completely replace fiat.
In a pure cryptocurrency world, I think there's bitcoin as a universal reference, and there're currencies which are backed by bitcoin.

And as long as it's solidly backed by Bitcoin (no overissue, no BTC escape), that coin will always have value.

[corpsejunior]

But I'm talking about the minimum amount spent without paying as much as fees. I don't think spending 10$ + paying 10$ in fees on it is a good spending manner.

Of course, no one would want to pay above 10% as fees for a transaction, limiting Bitcoin's usage as a medium of exchange especially for much smaller transactions. There are options for reducing the fees paid such as segwit, consolidating, lightening network etc; but these methods have yet to efficiently eliminate high fees especially at times of high network activity. If you're holding, it's better to apply those means of reducing fees.

<snip>
Each coin should comply with the BTC-backing requirements so I doesn't simply sink.

Bitcoin does not have any requirements. It is a decentralized technology with no central authority. A system which redeems ANOTHER currency backed in Bitcoin would go against the core values of Bitcoin.

I'm trying to consolidate my wallet since two months now without much success so far. I know this is due to busy network, stacked dust received payments and all this on top of a legacy address.
But yeah I'm patient and will consolidate it.

But this doesn't answer my questiin that I thought simple : can I buy a bottle of milk today with BTC ? The answer is simply no unless overpaying it.

[Upgrade00]

I'm trying to consolidate my wallet since two months now without much success so far.

The concept of consolidating is that it should be done when the fees are relatively low (like between 1-3sats/byte). During periods of price spikes the fees go up and you pay higher to consolidate your funds.

But this doesn't answer my questiin that I thought simple : can I buy a bottle of milk today with BTC ? The answer is simply no unless overpaying it.

If merchants adopt off chain payment networks like LN, it would be possible. However, for such small purchases, I would recommend you use cash in your pocket, until bitcoin matures further as a medium of exchange.

[coolcoinz]

My question : is Bitcoin spendable in the first place ? Is it designed for and only for HODL, to provide a proof of wealth/stake ?

It is spendable. Treat it like your serious purchase fund. We all have things that we buy daily, weekly, monthly... and things we buy maybe once every decade. Some things are paid for once in a lifetime, like your child's school.

The second : I always heard the "be your own bank" among crypto features. Will the next step is to be your own CENTRAL bank ?

Central bank issues currency. We cannot issue our own Bitcoins, so that should answer your question.

[bitbunnny]

Well, if you want to create your own rules for your own currency then you can also be your own central bank. That is the beauty of using Bitcoin, in quite wide range you can create your own rules and decide what is acceptable for you or not.
However, since Bitcoin is decentralized by nature I don't think this is necessary. There is no central financial or any other authority who would monitor it and control it. So I can understand why some people have fear of Bitcoin regulation although I think that doesn't mean centralisation and lack of freedom.

[coolcoinz]

But this doesn't answer my questiin that I thought simple : can I buy a bottle of milk today with BTC ? The answer is simply no unless overpaying it.

Trying to use Bitcoin to buy a bottle of milk is like using a flamethrower to light a candle or using a pistol to kill a cockroach. Certain things are meant to be used in certain way. Bitcoin was made to be a payment system, but it doesn't have to be a system that will allow you to buy a pack of smokes. Since it became a store of value in these uncertain times, you will not be able to buy very cheap things with Bitcoin, just like you can't do it with gold. Bitcoin is better though. It allows you to buy things directly, unlike gold, even if these things have to be of certain value for you not to lose money on fees.

[AmoreJaz]

But this doesn't answer my questiin that I thought simple : can I buy a bottle of milk today with BTC ? The answer is simply no unless overpaying it.

Trying to use Bitcoin to buy a bottle of milk is like using a flamethrower to light a candle or using a pistol to kill a cockroach. Certain things are meant to be used in certain way. Bitcoin was made to be a payment system, but it doesn't have to be a system that will allow you to buy a pack of smokes. Since it became a store of value in these uncertain times, you will not be able to buy very cheap things with Bitcoin, just like you can't do it with gold. Bitcoin is better though. It allows you to buy things directly, unlike gold, even if these things have to be of certain value for you not to lose money on fees.

because if you will buy for example a bottle of milk or pack of smokes, you will incur tx fee that may be higher than what youre buying. not considering the time that you may spend to do so because you need to wait for the confirmation stuff. so yeah, youre overpaying and putting too much effort in this route. so are you going to use btc or just use your fiat instead in this scenario? but there are items over the net that you can pay via btc and will be worth paying for via your crypto. so it is a case-to-case basis here.