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Author Topic: ⚡️⚡️Betplay.io - Lightning Network Casino - INSTANT & ZERO FEE Payments ⚡️⚡️  (Read 3449 times)
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February 24, 2021, 04:17:29 PM
 #21

I'm not sure that this is the first casino with Bitcoin Lightning Network, but it's surely quite rare to see such things. I can see you also support USDT, but do you support regular Bitcoin transactions or only the Lightning Network?
I also see from the terms that even though you don't normally ask for ID, the casino is not fully anonymous since an ID can be asked when a person wants to withdraw consent, and some info like full name, phone number or Internet connection info can be asked in some cases.

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February 24, 2021, 05:12:36 PM
Merited by LoyceV (3)
 #22

I was taking a look at your "aviator" game, it looks pretty, but kind of shocks me that you'd clone bustabit, which has a robust and established provably fair system and then change it to something that is not only obviously not provably fair (the casino can trivially cheat) but something that would also be a PITA to verify.

I'd suggest you either fix it, or not falsely advertise it as provably fair Tongue

The lightning aspect of your site is pretty cool, hopefully that becomes standard as lightning adoption increases

Check out gamblingsitefinder.com for a decent list/rankings of crypto casinos. Note: I have no affiliation or interest in it, and don't even agree with all the rankings ... but it's the only uncorrupted review site I'm aware of.
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February 24, 2021, 05:20:18 PM
 #23

*welcome new challenger gambling site...
accept the Bitcoin Lightning Network! seems very interesting. I am still very unfamiliar with the bitcoin lightning network, but what I heard is that the fee is very much cheaper than the usual Bitcoin network. will try later.

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February 24, 2021, 07:21:30 PM
 #24

I was taking a look at your "aviator" game, it looks pretty, but kind of shocks me that you'd clone bustabit, which has a robust and established provably fair system and then change it to something that is not only obviously not provably fair (the casino can trivially cheat) but something that would also be a PITA to verify.

I'd suggest you either fix it, or not falsely advertise it as provably fair Tongue

The lightning aspect of your site is pretty cool, hopefully that becomes standard as lightning adoption increases

Aviator is a provider's game. Betplay can't change it.
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February 24, 2021, 07:38:46 PM
 #25

I was taking a look at your "aviator" game, it looks pretty, but kind of shocks me that you'd clone bustabit, which has a robust and established provably fair system and then change it to something that is not only obviously not provably fair (the casino can trivially cheat) but something that would also be a PITA to verify.

I'd suggest you either fix it, or not falsely advertise it as provably fair Tongue

The lightning aspect of your site is pretty cool, hopefully that becomes standard as lightning adoption increases

Aviator is a provider's game. Betplay can't change it.

Im presuming that you do talk about this? https://spribe.co/games/aviator

They have other games as well like Mines,Plinko,Hotline and Scratch.



Welcome to the forum Betplay!
Websites name and design are really that attractive plus using LN? This isnt something that you can see everyday.
Just be active on answering people queries and listening up with peoples suggestion and recommendation. Also, dont forget on that marketing side ofthings.


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February 24, 2021, 07:43:25 PM
Last edit: November 27, 2021, 11:47:59 AM by mprep
 #26

I was taking a look at your "aviator" game, it looks pretty, but kind of shocks me that you'd clone bustabit, which has a robust and established provably fair system and then change it to something that is not only obviously not provably fair (the casino can trivially cheat) but something that would also be a PITA to verify.

I'd suggest you either fix it, or not falsely advertise it as provably fair Tongue

The lightning aspect of your site is pretty cool, hopefully that becomes standard as lightning adoption increases

Aviator is a provider's game. Betplay can't change it.

Correct, Aviator is a provided by Spribe so we do not have direct control of it. They do offer a provably fair implementation that takes players' seeds into account. Whether you find their implementation satisfactory or not is something you need to check and decide for yourself of course.



*welcome new challenger gambling site...
accept the Bitcoin Lightning Network! seems very interesting. I am still very unfamiliar with the bitcoin lightning network, but what I heard is that the fee is very much cheaper than the usual Bitcoin network. will try later.

Thank you! Bitcoin Lightning Network will revolutionise the whole online casino industry. Transaction goes within seconds and fees cost only a fraction, then what it would cost from a normal BTC casino. We are very much looking forward to hear your feedback after trying us out! Smiley 



I was taking a look at your "aviator" game, it looks pretty, but kind of shocks me that you'd clone bustabit, which has a robust and established provably fair system and then change it to something that is not only obviously not provably fair (the casino can trivially cheat) but something that would also be a PITA to verify.

I'd suggest you either fix it, or not falsely advertise it as provably fair Tongue

The lightning aspect of your site is pretty cool, hopefully that becomes standard as lightning adoption increases

Aviator is a provider's game. Betplay can't change it.

Im presuming that you do talk about this? https://spribe.co/games/aviator

They have other games as well like Mines,Plinko,Hotline and Scratch.



Welcome to the forum Betplay!
Websites name and design are really that attractive plus using LN? This isnt something that you can see everyday.
Just be active on answering people queries and listening up with peoples suggestion and recommendation. Also, dont forget on that marketing side ofthings.

Thank you! We worked hard on the design and saw that LN is missing in casino context. Yes, we are more than happy to listen to your suggestions and recommendation, that's why we are here Smiley I'm happy you like the brand!

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]
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February 24, 2021, 08:18:05 PM
Last edit: February 24, 2021, 08:35:10 PM by RHavar
Merited by LoyceV (3)
 #27

Aviator is a provider's game. Betplay can't change it.

I'm not sure this is entirely relevant. You can't put a game on your website that falsely advertises itself as provably fair and then wash your hands of it.



Or even just hack the DOM to remove that, lol.


I've never heard of their game provider, https://spribe.co/, so I had a look at their website. They call "aviator" their flagship game, and pat themselves pretty hard for cloning bustabit, and changing the provably fair system to one that offers literally no guarantees at all

Quote
We are amongst pioneers to introduce this game to regular online casinos.

and unsurprisingly are licensed by the UK Gambling Commission,  probably one (the?) of the worst gambling regulatory bodies out there. With my dealings with them, they couldn't even bother pretending they care about players interests. So while I have reported Spribe to them for false-advertising, I am almost 100% sure they couldn't care less.  


---

Interestingly, the very first iteration of bustabit had a vastly improved "fairness" scheme. Which was simply when the round began, it broadcasted a hash of the (salted) game outcome. This took like ~5 lines of code, really. While it had some benefits (it proved the game was predetermined), it did not prove that it came from a fair distribution. So at the time it was called "provably predetermined" and until (I) implemented figured out how to make it come from a fair distribution it was never marketed as "provably fair". Meanwhile "aviator" offers zero guarantees, yet calls itself "provably fair" ><

Check out gamblingsitefinder.com for a decent list/rankings of crypto casinos. Note: I have no affiliation or interest in it, and don't even agree with all the rankings ... but it's the only uncorrupted review site I'm aware of.
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February 24, 2021, 08:43:39 PM
Merited by LoyceV (3)
 #28

I was happy to read your post that you wont be collecting personal data for deposits and withdrawals, but your TOS claims otherwise. If KYC wont be asked during deposits and withdrawals, can you give us examples of when and why you might use it? I am interested because you don't have a gambling license. Did I understand correctly that I have the right to refuse submitting my personal data to you? If so, what happens with my funds and my winnings?

My second question is about "user contributions". What exactly is that? You state that it might be shared on the site publicly or with third parties.   

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February 24, 2021, 09:15:08 PM
 #29

I agree, their provably fair implementation is probably one of the easiest to cheat I've ever seen.

Spribe are the only ones who could do the cheating, not Betplay. Also, the game is in an iframe, Betplay can't modify the dom.


I should probably state that I am a security researcher and my job is to protect casinos from losing money. I have no professional interest in protecting players. I don't see any way Betplay could lose money by making Aviator available to its customers.
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February 24, 2021, 09:29:18 PM
 #30

I was happy to read your post that you wont be collecting personal data for deposits and withdrawals, but your TOS claims otherwise. If KYC wont be asked during deposits and withdrawals, can you give us examples of when and why you might use it? I am interested because you don't have a gambling license. Did I understand correctly that I have the right to refuse submitting my personal data to you? If so, what happens with my funds and my winnings?

My second question is about "user contributions". What exactly is that? You state that it might be shared on the site publicly or with third parties.   
You do talk for possible KYC?

This doesnt rule out nor exempt other casinos as well where you can be possibly asked with some verification if they do see something towards your gambling activity.
Its quite common that those are included on most terms and conditions.
About gambling license then this hadnt been an issue because even those famous ones upto now did able to succeed or get some marketshare even
they arent really licensed at all.

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February 24, 2021, 09:56:37 PM
 #31

I agree, their provably fair implementation is probably one of the easiest to cheat I've ever seen.

It's so bad, that I have trouble imagining how anyone even thought it was a good idea o.0  Especially when they can just copy the dozen+ casinos who do it properly.

Quote
Spribe are the only ones who could do the cheating, not Betplay.

Well, I don't think it really matters. Either way the player could be getting undetectably cheated.  I'm not sure players really care who is doing the cheating if they're getting cheated (not to mention players don't even know if Betplay and Spribe are actually different entities).

But besides all that, people are connecting (first) to Betplay, not Spribe. If betplay wanted to cheat, it's pretty easy: It could target a person by serving them with an page that mimics the appearance and behavior of Spribes game and abuses the broken provably fair scheme to cheat.

Quote
Also, the game is in an iframe, Betplay can't modify the dom.

Indeed. I guess they could float something over the iframe though, lmao. Although in reality they should be vetting what they put on their website and serving to customers.


Quote
I should probably state that I am a security researcher and my job is to protect casinos from losing money. I have no professional interest in protecting players. I don't see any way Betplay could lose money by making Aviator available to its customers.

Indeed. I agree their provably fair system does not allow players to cheat the casino, only the casino to cheat players.  Grin

Check out gamblingsitefinder.com for a decent list/rankings of crypto casinos. Note: I have no affiliation or interest in it, and don't even agree with all the rankings ... but it's the only uncorrupted review site I'm aware of.
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February 25, 2021, 02:35:04 AM
 #32


wow this was the first Lightning network bitcoin betting site , i have been looking for this kind of site because i have some funds in my LN and now i guess i can use them after a year.

..
so meaning what you find is not yet starting ? so the tagline is indeed correct as they are the first as they are already operating not like the one that you mentioned.

the one that i linked above is already up and running because i check it already but i mean is the date when this casino first operated ( ex. 2019 , 2020 .. ) but upon writing this i remember a site that is called whois so i pasted the site lightningspin.com on that i found these following values  :

Quote
Domain Name: LIGHTNINGSPIN.COM
Registry Domain ID: 2276666502_DOMAIN_COM-VRSN
Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.domainnameshop.com
Registrar URL: http://www.domainnameshop.com
Updated Date: 2020-05-14T12:17:19Z
Creation Date: 2018-06-18T22:55:32Z
Registry Expiry Date: 2021-06-18T22:55:32Z
Registrar: Domeneshop AS dba domainnameshop.com
Registrar IANA ID: 1001
Registrar Abuse Contact Email: abuse@domainnameshop.com
Registrar Abuse Contact Phone: +47.22943333
Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited https://icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited
Name Server: CORTNEY.NS.CLOUDFLARE.COM
Name Server: LUKE.NS.CLOUDFLARE.COM
DNSSEC: unsigned

as we can see on that creation date it was 2018 so this means that this lightningspin.com is really the first before betplay.io started operating on the year 2020
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February 25, 2021, 03:49:13 AM
 #33

Welcome to this forum
It's fine if a platform claims to be "first" or "greatest". When players have made a deposit, the currency that showed will still Bitcoin or will it be converted to Fiat?

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February 25, 2021, 04:15:10 AM
 #34

Had a visit to the site. Quite good in all aspects, I didn't made a signup. From the overview it looks more of a trusted platform, and it has added games from different development platforms. This will help people preferring different scripts to give a try. However the gambling market is highly competent, and trust is much required to attract gamblers use the platform. Look for all the possible sources and add more trust. Lightening Network is good and adds attraction as very few platforms have started making use of it.

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February 25, 2021, 12:39:31 PM
Last edit: November 27, 2021, 11:47:34 AM by mprep
 #35

Welcome to this forum
It's fine if a platform claims to be "first" or "greatest". When players have made a deposit, the currency that showed will still Bitcoin or will it be converted to Fiat?

Thank you! For the moment it only shows in micro-bitcoin (uBTC).

Please note that we are temporarily turning off USDT on Betplay.io due to Ethereum network congestion and high fees. We will reevaluate this later and we are also looking into support for other USDT networks outside of Ethereum. Being able to provide fast and low cost payments are very important to us and right now we do not feel that USDT on ETH network meets our requirements.



Had a visit to the site. Quite good in all aspects, I didn't made a signup. From the overview it looks more of a trusted platform, and it has added games from different development platforms. This will help people preferring different scripts to give a try. However the gambling market is highly competent, and trust is much required to attract gamblers use the platform. Look for all the possible sources and add more trust. Lightening Network is good and adds attraction as very few platforms have started making use of it.

Thank you for your comments.

We are currently integrating more premium providers, such as Netent, Pragmatic, Play'nGo etc, so our players have more variations of games. Any suggestion you might have, for us to gain more trust, are highly welcomed!



I was happy to read your post that you wont be collecting personal data for deposits and withdrawals, but your TOS claims otherwise. If KYC wont be asked during deposits and withdrawals, can you give us examples of when and why you might use it? I am interested because you don't have a gambling license. Did I understand correctly that I have the right to refuse submitting my personal data to you? If so, what happens with my funds and my winnings?

My second question is about "user contributions". What exactly is that? You state that it might be shared on the site publicly or with third parties.   

Sorry for our late reply on this, so regarding KYC, the reason for why we still have that is because it is a requirement for us to have in our TOS if we want to go for the Curacao license. And as mentioned before we have had in plan to go for that license and that is why we chose to still keep it in our TOS. However, we have spoken internally and will remove that clause from our TOS until we have the license, because as you mentioned it is not necessary while we don't have a license. The "user contributions" is in our TOS because of upcoming promotions where we will show the players chosen username when they have won a big bet for example. Smiley



Hey all,

We are running two promotions now on Friday and Saturday. If you would like to participate we would love your feedback, mostly on the Myster Cash Drop! Smiley I am sure most of you have received the email about the promotion but I will post it here as well.

On Friday the 12th of March we will be running the 25% Cashback Race and on Saturday the 13th of March we will also be running our new promotion called Mystery Cash Drop!

To participate for the Mega Cash Drop promotion simply make a minimum deposit of 1000 uBTC between 12th of March at 23.59 CET and the 13th of March at 23.59 CET to have a chance to get a secret Cash Drop on your account.

The rules are if you get the Cash Drop, then the Cash is yours with no wagering requirements. You will have one hour to either withdraw the Cash or play for it! If you have not withdrawn or played with the Cash before the one hour mark the Cash will go to another lucky player!

Have a great day!





What you are organizing looks very interesting, in view of the fact that you want to establish better communication with your customers, do you have plans to spread the word? That is, a social media campaign, signature campaign?

This helps a lot to attract potential customers, and here in the forum the community of players is very large.

Hi, yes we have been looking into different methods of spreading our word. This forum is of course one of them, we have heard of signature campaigns but we were not quite sure how/if it works. We will definitely look deeper into that, thanks for the advise! And i hope you will try out our promotion, let me know what you think of it Smiley

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]
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March 11, 2021, 10:05:57 AM
 #36

What you are organizing looks very interesting, in view of the fact that you want to establish better communication with your customers, do you have plans to spread the word? That is, a social media campaign, signature campaign?

This helps a lot to attract potential customers, and here in the forum the community of players is very large.

Hi, yes we have been looking into different methods of spreading our word. This forum is of course one of them, we have heard of signature campaigns but we were not quite sure how/if it works. We will definitely look deeper into that, thanks for the advise! And i hope you will try out our promotion, let me know what you think of it Smiley

Signature campaigns are straightforward. See how most of us have it just below our post? You design one for those, sign people up to wear those (plus Avatars and profile messages) and then you automatically have your banner displayed below EVERY post the wearer ever made:)

Very effective IF you get high quality posters active in the right sub-forums:)

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March 11, 2021, 10:56:37 AM
 #37

I like the design and the layout from the website. It looks decent and attractive. There are also many games to be offered.
The only minus is that there is a license from Costa Rica. It is not an official gambling license, as many people already discussed on the site. On the other hand, there are many other sites from Costa Rica with a reputable name. So the website will be as good as the reputation will be. Let us just wait from some players how they experience this site. I might try it by myself later on.

ya.ya.yo!




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March 11, 2021, 07:31:10 PM
 #38

Since you have disabled support for USDT over the Ethereum network, may I suggest you consider introducing USDT over the Tron network. We currently find ourselves in a bull market and to save on transaction fees, using the Tron network seems like a convenient alternative. It would also also fit quite well with your ambition of having a casino where players don't have to lose a great deal of money on network fees. 

At the bottom of the website, you have those three buttons for the Windows, iOS, and Android apps. The problem is, only the Windows logo is clickable. The reason could be that the mobile apps have not been released yet, but just in case they have, I wanted to make you aware that the buttons don't work.   

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March 11, 2021, 10:36:29 PM
Last edit: November 27, 2021, 11:47:16 AM by mprep
 #39

We will definitely look into it! Thanks for suggestion. Smiley






We are happy to announce support for bitcoin deposits & withdrawals using Liquid Network at Betplay.io. Given the increasing fees and mempool in the main chain we want to offer our users faster & cheaper payment options and seeing how well Bitcoin Lightning is working we think this can be a great complement to that for users who prefer using Liquid instead.

Payments take about 1 minute and fees are quite low. For example, a transfer of 20 uBTC incurred a total fee of 0.2 uBTC which we think is quite good considering the onchain fees right now.  Grin

Lightning payments are still available of course!

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April 18, 2021, 12:54:51 PM
 #40



Hi, yes we have been looking into different methods of spreading our word. This forum is of course one of them, we have heard of signature campaigns but we were not quite sure how/if it works. We will definitely look deeper into that, thanks for the advise! And i hope you will try out our promotion, let me know what you think of it Smiley
To have a general idea of what a signature campaign look like go check the service section
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=52.0

It's surprising that you have no idea what a signature campaign is all about, you are running a gambling site and you need to market it and signature marketing is part of it, you have to explore it if you have the funds, it's worth it some signature campaigns are already running for over a year now, this is a big proof that it really works.

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