Why can merit decrease ?..........

[iq_armando]

Why can merit decrease ?, and who can take away?
Someone took one from me.

[1714872239]

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[Mbitr]

Firstly - You would be better off moving this post over to the meta section of the forum

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=24.0

Secondly - I really don’t think this can happen - are you sure ?

[GazetaBitcoin]

Why can merit decrease ?

Why not?!

and who can take away?

theymos. Maybe Cyrus too. Actually, most likely, Cyrus too.

Someone took one from me.

Maybe you actually did not deserve it... ever thought about that?

I really don’t think this can happen - are you sure ?

Yes, this can happen. And it happened on several occasions...

[Rikafip]

Why can merit decrease ?, and who can take away?
Someone took one from me.

Are you absolutely sure that it happened? Maybe you just remembered wrong how much merit you had. Imho that is more likely than getting your merit removed.

Thing is, merit removal is extremely rare and  and even when that happens as far as I know it  should be visible on your merit transaction history and there is no sign of that.

[GeorgeJohn]

Why can merit decrease ?, and who can take away?
Someone took one from me.

This question is really confusing, because I have not heard or noticed decreased in merit system, which is already existing in your profile, I think the only person that have the right for anyone profile is bitcointalk controller, which is theymos, and if such thing happen their is a cogent reason behind the removal of merit.

[acener]

It is the first time I heard of it or maybe others just didn't care or check their merit just like me.
Don't worry if your merit decrease you could just earn it again by posting a good topic or replies.
P.S I think this thread doesn't belong here so you should move it to the Meta section or it would just be deleted by the Mod's.

[acroman08]

Thing is, merit removal is extremely rare

I never knew merit removal actually exist. I've heard of demerit and of LovceV wanting to have the ability of demeriting but as far as I know it hasn't been approved. just curious what does the merit history look like if merit is removed?

and even when that happens as far as I know it  should be visible on your merit transaction history and there is no sign of that.

OP's BPIP also shows that he only recieved 12 merits from 5 different members.

[Kong Hey Pakboy]

Yes, this can happen. And it happened on several occasions...

But on the page where you give the merit, it says that it can't be taken away or undone, I am pretty confused because that means that anyone can be a target of this in a way or that it can be abused. I never thought that that is a possibility.

[hilariousandco]

It probably didn't. Your merit page only shows it from the last 120 days so are you getting confused that it's been removed from display there but not actually your total?

[Matimtim]

Why can merit decrease ?, and who can take away?
Someone took one from me.

I think the one who made this merit system is the one who can demerit or take away some merit in someone account in this forum, but I don't think that is implemented  or possible in this forum, or else maybe there some changes has made in this forum like if someone send merit in you, but after  an hour they realized you don't deserve that merit they can remove that merit give to someone who deserve it.

[iamsheikhadil]

Probably a glitch? Or might be you saw your number of merits wrong or have mistaken. I think merit reversal is a thing which is only applied when the merit transaction is obvious a trade or a post which deserve no merit at all which is obvious from all subjective angle, and I have seen merit given to even one liners which aren't reversed so I guess maybe you just have mistaken in noticing how much merits you had.

[GazetaBitcoin]

But on the page where you give the merit, it says that it can't be taken away or undone, I am pretty confused because that means that anyone can be a target of this in a way or that it can be abused. I never thought that that is a possibility.

Actually, it just says it can not be undone, not that merits can't be taken away. And that "undone" means that if you merit someone, then you can not demerit that user (i.e., like removing a Fb "Like"). However, theymos can remove merits if he feels it's needed. For example, I remember that once a user asked himself to have his merits deleted. I don't know why he wanted that. And theymos listened to his request.

This doesn't mean the system can be abused, nor that it is abused. Only 1 person (theymos) or 2 (theymos and Cyrus) can delete merits. This happens only in very rare occasions though.

[Theb]

Why can merit decrease ?, and who can take away?
Someone took one from me.

No such thing happens and what theymos said before on the announcement of the merit system still applies.

There is currently no such thing as a "demerit". I'm hoping that the positive merits alone will be fine. I could add demerits pretty easily later on if necessary, though.

Merits you gained even on deleted posts and received from banned members doesn't even remove the merit you earned from that post and from that member, you probably thought you have this number of merits when in fact you only have that number of merits which had happened to me before.

[isaac_clarke22]

~

There's no glitch. OP could've been looking at the "Merits received in the last 120 days" and thought that if it disappears then it will be deducted to the current merit count.

He/she has a default merit of 100 since he/she already was already a full member when merit system was implemented, then he/she received a total of 12 merits from 5 different users, summing up to 112 merits which he/she has right now.

Source: bpip.org

[DdmrDdmr]

<...>

These are all the TXs you received that raised your merit count:
https://public.tableau.com/shared/BFRSJ5KS4?:display_count=y&:origin=viz_share_link

There aren’t any counter TXs (i.e. negative quantity TXs) originated from Bitcoin Forum, which is how merits have been erased in the past on some very specific cases where merit abuse was implied (not the only technique used though). Since this is not the case, I figure memory is playing tricks.

In addition, 120 day window in which merit TXs are seen on the profile should not have led to any confusion in this case, since the prior merit TX to those currently viewed in the Received list was from the 12/7/2019 (therefore no TX has dropped from the 120 view recently).

[The Sceptical Chymist]

I don't think I can add much to what everyone else has said, but I just want to reiterate that merits are not routinely taken away from anyone.  There may have been one case of that that I've heard of over the years, but I'm not even sure about that.  In any case the only one who could reduce your merit count would be Theymos, and if he did that he'd probably let you know why he did it.

OP is probably mistaken.  Maybe he's looking at his sMerits and mistaking them for received merits?  I dunno, 'tis a perplexing mystery that likely shan't be solved lest The Great One Theymos deigns to come explain Himself.  (I still would like my name changed to Sceptical Chymist, Theymos).  Lol.

[Little Mouse]

Gazeta
Theymos or Cyrus will only act once there will be a massive amount of merit is exchanged. I don't think for 1 or 2 merits, admin will interfere and remove. I can't remember where I saw theymos was talking about this. Without blatant case, such interfere is unlikely to happen.

[Evilish]

I think others are right here. The "merits received in the last 30/120 days" probably caused this confusion. It's not possible to remove merits once they have been sent, of course forum administrators can probably do that, but why would they?

I am surprised though that people keep track of their merit, and "1" merit point at that too.

Maybe you actually did not deserve it... ever thought about that?

They are asking why it was removed.. not whether they deserve it or not. Stop jumping to conclusions people.. and being so patronizing to those asking questions.

[GazetaBitcoin]

Gazeta
Theymos or Cyrus will only act once there will be a massive amount of merit is exchanged. I don't think for 1 or 2 merits, admin will interfere and remove.

This is true. That's why I said it happens only in rare occasions... And anyway it was not OP's case

This doesn't mean the system can be abused, nor that it is abused. Only 1 person (theymos) or 2 (theymos and Cyrus) can delete merits. This happens only in very rare occasions though.

I can't remember where I saw theymos was talking about this. Without blatant case, such interfere is unlikely to happen.

A certain case when it happened was last year, when someone asked to have all merits removed:

hallo ,
excuse me for disturbing, how to do it, so that my merits no longer exist, or delete my merits please. but I just want to keep my pseudonym/alias .
thank you, no debate just action.

Don't ask me why he wanted such thing But his wish was fulfilled. I see though he received merits later and that's ironic.

They are asking why it was removed.. not whether they deserve it or not. Stop jumping to conclusions people.. and being so patronizing to those asking questions.

And I answered to the question. I wasn't patronizing. If a merit was deleted (although it wasn't), why would that happen? Maybe because of a bug, because the user asked himself (as in the above mentioned case) or... maybe the post did not deserve the merit. Can you see other reasons...?

[hulla]

Why can merit decrease ?,

That's how the forum moderator created it, it cant be decreased or undone but for the amount of the monthly smerit giving to the forum merit source can be decrease.

and who can take away?

Probably theymos but I don't think he will like to cause the merit rules are set already and it shouldn't be broken.

Someone took one from me.

Merit is sent independently and it not possible for someone to take one from you without your account been hacked.

[Evilish]

And I answered to the question. I wasn't patronizing. If a merit was deleted (although it wasn't), why would that happen? Maybe because of a bug, because the user asked himself (as in the above mentioned case) or... maybe the post did not deserve the merit. Can you see other reasons...?

I don't know much about the merit system and I am not keen on learning more about it.. maybe I could be wrong here, but last I checked I couldn't remove the merits I granted.

Bug seems likely, or confusion on OP's part due to change in merits received in last 30-120 days as others pointed out.

Let's say the post wasn't deserving of merits, how would it lose merit? Like there's no mechanism to take it back. Unless theymos intervened but I don't take him as the kind of person to meddle in and remove merits.

[GazetaBitcoin]

I don't know much about the merit system and I am not keen on learning more about it.. maybe I could be wrong here, but last I checked I couldn't remove the merits I granted.

Lol, then who's jumping to conclusion, me or you? Also, being here since 2013 would mean you are familiarized with the merit system already...

Besides, if you would have read my previous post, you would understand more:

Actually, it just says it can not be undone, not that merits can't be taken away. And that "undone" means that if you merit someone, then you can not demerit that user (i.e., like removing a Fb "Like"). However, theymos can remove merits if he feels it's needed. For example, I remember that once a user asked himself to have his merits deleted. I don't know why he wanted that. And theymos listened to his request.

This doesn't mean the system can be abused, nor that it is abused. Only 1 person (theymos) or 2 (theymos and Cyrus) can delete merits. This happens only in very rare occasions though.

Bug seems likely, or confusion on OP's part due to change in merits received in last 30-120 days as others pointed out.

I also said that...

Let's say the post wasn't deserving of merits, how would it lose merit? Like there's no mechanism to take it back. Unless theymos intervened but I don't take him as the kind of person to meddle in and remove merits.

Well, you just answered yourself: only theymos (forum's Supreme Leader) or maybe Cyrus too (Global Administrator) can intervene.

[Evilish]

Lol, then who's jumping to conclusion, me or you? Also, being here since 2013 would mean you are familiarized with the merit system already...

I am not jumping to conclusion. You were the one who jumped to a conclusion.. not to mention your patronizing attitude towards OP for asking this simple question. Don't have an answer? Don't answer. There's no need to tell them their posts are not deserving of merit.

Also, being here since 2013 would mean you are familiarized with the merit system already...

I am here since 2013 and I come here to do business, not to learn what new systems forum is coming up with. Merit system was introduced in recent years btw.. and I don't care about it enough to know every small detail about it. I know enough to answer OPs question, i.e. it was either a bug or a reading error.

Well, you just answered yourself: only theymos (forum's Supreme Leader) or maybe Cyrus too (Global Administrator) can intervene.

Again. You didn't get my point. I don't take theymos as the kind of person to take 1 merit point away from the OP.

[skarais]

When the merit system was first implemented, demerited of one's merit could be done by other users because it was a bug they had not fixed. But after theymos have fixed it since then, it will no longer be possible to demerited it, except in case of merit abuse such as merit trading, incorrectly entering the amount when sending and so on. Thyemos may still be able to do so if the sender asks it to cancel the transaction for obvious reason.

Theymos, bug : Sending negative merit increases your spendable merit, please advise and fix.

I tested it on another user, gave them negative my total spendable increased. I gave them back their merit and now my contribution is +0 merit to their post, which is funny at best, but definitely something I'm sure you're already looking into.

If there is no demeriting right now. How does this guy at the topic -link below- demerited by the same guy?

Merited by crairezx20 (-10), crairezx20 (-10), crairezx20 (-10)

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2605767.140

Did you forget to limit the merit you can send to positive numbers?

Tested on Lutpin:
Entered -10.
His points dropped by -10.
My sMerit went up by 10.

I assume, the 50 limit doesn't apply here and I could neg. you by a few thousands.
Update: Tested. There is no limit on the negative numbers. Sorry Luptin.

OP, if you check your history of merit on your profile, then you only get data in the last 120 days. If you want to see all merit data since you first got it, check the url below.

Code:

https://bpip.org/smerit.aspx?&to=iq_armando&start=2018-01-01

[GazetaBitcoin]

I am not jumping to conclusion.

But you are Towards me at least, and you do this while you don't even knkw what merit system is about, yet you're here for eight years already.

You were the one who jumped to a conclusion.. not to mention your patronizing attitude towards OP for asking this simple question. Don't have an answer? Don't answer. There's no need to tell them their posts are not deserving of merit.

Actually I had an answer. And I wasn't patronizimg. Removing merits for posts not deserving them is always a possibility.

I am here since 2013 and I come here to do business, not to learn what new systems forum is coming up with.

Then maybe you should stick to your business instead of engaging in discussion overwhelming your (poor) knowledge. After all, what's the point in involving in discussion you don't understand By the way, did you know that the forum wasn't built for business, but for Bitcoin discussion?

Merit system was introduced in recent years btw.. and I don't care about it enough to know every small detail about it.

Uh-huh... then excuse me... You had only three years to understand the merit system, since it was launched in January 2018... Yes, it's not like you had 10 years to learn it

I know enough to answer OPs question

Yes, I see that. All is crystal clear.

[Evilish]

But you are Towards me at least, and you do this while you don't even knkw what merit system is about, yet you're here for eight years already.

I know what merit system is about. I prefaced by saying "I don't know much about merit system" because I like to be honest about things I give my opinions on. I don't know every nitty gritty of merit system, and I am sure many others don't either.

But I know that:
1) Once a merit is sent. Forum doesn't magically take it back because it's an "undeserving post".
2) For regular users, there's no way to take a merit back.

I gave my opinion based on this knowledge.

Removing merits for posts not deserving them is always a possibility.

If it's some sort of merit abuse, maybe, but I don't see administrators meddling in and deciding whether a post is worthy of merit or not.

Then maybe you should stick to your business instead of engaging in discussion overwhelming your (poor) knowledge. After all, what's the point in involving in discussion you don't understand

Lol, okay. Thanks for the advice. I will engage in conversations where I think I can contribute. Got a problem with that? Take it up with the staff.

By the way, did you know that the forum wasn't built for business, but for Bitcoin discussion?

Thanks for eye opener on what this forum is supposed to be about. How misleading of theymos to add a "marketplace" section to the forum.

Uh-huh... then excuse me... You had only three years to understand the merit system, since it was launched in January 2018... Yes, it's not like you had 10 years to learn it

Apparently I know better on merit system than you do. Yet I am honest enough to admit I don't know every nitty gritty of the system, unlike you who's pretending to be a know it all and pass the bill on to the OP for the discrepancy they noticed in their merit count.

Yes, I see that. All is crystal clear.

As it should be.

[GazetaBitcoin]

I know what merit system is about.

I can see that. It's obvious.

Lol, okay. Thanks for the advice.

Welcome. Anytime.

I will engage in conversations where I think I can contribute.

Yes, please do so. And just where you truly think you can contribute. Nowhere else.

Got a problem with that? Take it up with the staff.

No problem on my side. Before a few hours ago I never knew you exist.

Thanks for eye opener on what this forum is supposed to be about.

Welcome. Again.

How misleading of theymos to add a "marketplace" section to the forum.

How ironic, isn't it? Misleading too. Is like seeing a cow eating grass and you tend to believe it's a lawn trimming device. Actually, it's an animal who's purpose is giving us milk and meat. If you don't get the riddle, let me know. I'll explain with more details.

Apparently I know better on merit system than you do.

This is obvious from any observer.

Yet I am honest enough to admit I don't know every nitty gritty of the system, unlike you

I never said I'm a mastermind of merit system.

Yes, I see that. All is crystal clear.

As it should be.

All good then. Flawless communication.

[Evilish]

No problem on my side. Before a few hours ago I never knew you exist.

That right there is the highlight of my day. Some random dude on the internet knows about me, yaay! How cool!

Good. Now you know that I exist. You also snooped through my profile enough to know that I registered in 2013. Admittedly, I still know less about you than you know about me.

This will be the last post on this thread from my side. Let's not derail the topic here.

You win. Let's move on. Try to be nicer in future and don't tell people they don't "deserve" something.

Send me a PM if you wanna continue this and we could go all day long.

[Pmalek]

If theymos or Cyrus went through merited posts and occasionally deleted a few merits, we would see threads like this once a week at least. This is the first time I read something like this and because of that I think OP miscounted. The administrators can't decide what users find merit-worthy. It's a subjective choice of every user. There have been cases of awful one-liners being merited with 50 merits and if those didn't get reverted, the occasional merit here and there won't be either.