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Author Topic: Debunking the "Bitcoin is an environmental disaster" argument.  (Read 3897 times)
cryptosize
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September 16, 2022, 09:12:01 AM
 #261

Humanity needs higher amounts of energy to progress further. I support progress, not regression back to the Medieval Ages.

I do not support depopulation, but I guess it might happen thanks to useful idiots biting the "muh ecology/save the planet" bait. Wink

I have an abundance mindset when it comes to energy, while you have a scarcity mindset.

The only scarce thing here is the BTC supply cap, definitely not energy!

Talking to you , is like talking to a child, you have not yet developed the ability to reason.

Depopulation is already happening due to the majority of the human race being past child bearing age.

You have a fantasy mindset of a child,
if you are unable to comprehend the numerous articles showing their is an energy supply problem currently through out the world.
Well , it will be all the rougher for you once you finally grow up.

Good Luck , you're going to need it.  Smiley

FYI:
Be sure and think about abundance, when your lights go out this winter from the rolling blackoutsWink

You were in your dad's testicles when I was programming computers, kiddo. Wink

You're the useful idiot I was talking about... endorsing an artificial energy crisis.

We could have had cheap nuclear energy by now, but no, useful "green" idiots like you have to protest.

Why? Because the elites want to slow down human population growth (see the chart above). More energy = more population growth. Facts are facts.

Bye kiddo! Smiley
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September 16, 2022, 09:17:47 AM
 #262

Re-posting this:

Alright. Back to ignoring reality.

Once PoW mining is banned , coming soon.
BlackHatCoiner will do exactly what he doing now, pretending it did not happen.

But for people that live in this reality,  
well any coin unable to transact is worth zero.
In BTC and Game of Thrones, being a hodler does not end well.  Tongue

Let me repeat this, since some people can't grasp it's meaning.
The White House Office of Science and Technology is recommending to the US President that PoW be Eliminated from the US.
And 1 executive order and btc PoW mining in the US is dead overnight.

*That means your btc becomes worthless, literally overnight with just the stroke of a pen.*

FYI: What does Vitalik Buterin think about Proof of Stake?
https://cointelegraph.com/news/pos-will-make-ethereum-more-secure-than-bitcoin-says-vitalik-buterin
Quote
PoS Will Make Ethereum More Secure Than Bitcoin, Says Vitalik Buterin

What does Charles Hoskinson think about Proof of Stake?
https://forkast.news/video-audio/iohk-charles-hoskinson-proof-of-stake-better-than-proof-of-work/
Quote
IOHK’s Charles Hoskinson says proof of stake is much better than proof of work


What does White House Office of Science and Technology think about Proof of Stake?
https://blockworks.co/white-house-criticizes-proof-of-work-crypto-mining/
Quote
According to the authors, the estimated global electricity usage of cryptoasset mining as of August 2022 exceeds the annual electricity usage of countries including Argentina and Australia, sitting roughly between 120 billion and 240 billion kilowatt-hours per year.

High energy consumption will likely lead to disastrous consequences for daily Americans, the White House says, not only exacerbating “climate-driven weather extremes,” but also threatening the stability of electricity grids as it could “push up power prices for local consumers.”

Specifically, the report criticizes the proof-of-work (PoW) consensus mechanism — which currently represents more than 60% of the total cryptoasset market capitalization, stating that “given the electricity usage estimates, most discussions about crypto-asset electricity usage has focused on PoW applications, particularly Bitcoin.”

It reasons that responsible development of digital assets must include solutions to drastically reduce its energy consumption and suggests the “less energy-intensive consensus mechanism, called Proof of Stake (PoS), estimated to consume up to 0.28 billion kilowatt-hours per year in 2021, less than 0.001% of global electricity usage,” could be a viable alternative. 

“There have been growing calls for PoW blockchains to adopt less energy-intensive consensus mechanisms,” the report said. “The most prominent reaction has been Ethereum’s promised launch of “Ethereum 2.0,” which uses a PoS consensus mechanism.”


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September 16, 2022, 10:13:54 AM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #263

While Bitcoin PoW continues to be an insanely stupid waste of energy resources.

Ethereum has evolved leaving behind the dead-end technology know as Proof of work/Waste.

Once again you arrive with your antics of proof of work being an energy monster that on the verge of being banned, when even Ethereum's own (former) miners disagree with you.

The truth is, banning Proof of Work will immediately kill the following cryptocurrencies:

- Bitcoin
- Litecoin
- Dogecoin
- Monero
- Dash
- Zcash
- The dozens of cyptocurrencies listed here

Do you really think all these guys are going to stand idly or rush to cripple their networks with the market-manipulation-capable PoS while Congress hurriedly wants to put a bullet through their chests?

You'd have to be looney to believe that governmental attempts to kill decentalized mining are going to succeed, since by its very nature it operates worldwide. Better start wearing your Elmer Fudd hunting cap now...

Ethereum chose to shoot itself in the foot. They have freedom to do that if they want.


This is certainly correct considering all the recent news that came especially from the US. They are way more active and up to date with crypto things these days and this Cointelegraph article among several others perfectly underpins what you have just said.

Exactly because the US government is making progress in all things crypto, they've decided against a PoW ban I think just recently. What they do want though is that it needs to be frequently checked whether PoW stays in line with the carbon footprint goals. Those are pretty soft words, almost sounds like they actively advocate mining. What they do ask for in a more compelling way these days is for mining facilities to successively invest more resources into renewable energies. That wording and tone is as far away from a ban as it can get. It does clearly sound like the intention to cooperate rather than putting PoW out of business.

The Cointelegraph article has a nice quote:

“We didn’t ban it at the beginning because we didn’t realize it was important, and we didn’t ban it now because there’s too much money and power behind it.”

That is exactly how everything enfolded. Many smart people in congress are invested themselves for sure.

Will there always be voices threatening that there is a ban around the corner? Of course! It is much more likely that AML regulations are going to be stricter and stricter over time and make things more complicated for people who value privacy. But can it get any worse than the NSA scandal? Tongue



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LegendaryK
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September 16, 2022, 11:28:27 AM
 #264

Exactly because the US government is making progress in all things crypto, they've decided against a PoW ban I think just recently.

Nope,
recommendations to the US President from the White House Office of Science and Technology is that PoW mining be banned.

White House Office of Science and Technology is in favor of Proof of Stake and critical of Proof of Work/waste:
https://blockworks.co/white-house-criticizes-proof-of-work-crypto-mining/
Quote
According to the authors, the estimated global electricity usage of cryptoasset mining as of August 2022 exceeds the annual electricity usage of countries including Argentina and Australia, sitting roughly between 120 billion and 240 billion kilowatt-hours per year.

High energy consumption will likely lead to disastrous consequences for daily Americans, the White House says, not only exacerbating “climate-driven weather extremes,” but also threatening the stability of electricity grids as it could “push up power prices for local consumers.”

Specifically, the report criticizes the proof-of-work (PoW) consensus mechanism — which currently represents more than 60% of the total cryptoasset market capitalization, stating that “given the electricity usage estimates, most discussions about crypto-asset electricity usage has focused on PoW applications, particularly Bitcoin.”

It reasons that responsible development of digital assets must include solutions to drastically reduce its energy consumption and suggests the “less energy-intensive consensus mechanism, called Proof of Stake (PoS), estimated to consume up to 0.28 billion kilowatt-hours per year in 2021, less than 0.001% of global electricity usage,” could be a viable alternative.  

“There have been growing calls for PoW blockchains to adopt less energy-intensive consensus mechanisms,” the report said.
“The most prominent reaction has been Ethereum’s promised launch of “Ethereum 2.0,” which uses a PoS consensus mechanism.”
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September 16, 2022, 11:52:07 AM
 #265

THE us is attacking all of crypto at the moment via Usa Savings bonds in particular the I bond.

As I type the I bond pays 9.62% for the first six moneys you purchased it.

Eth a wild card meaning not pegged to usd pays 3-4% staked

Most stable coins pegged to the USD pay 3-8%

there are 330 million us citizens that can buy 10000 in bonds each and every year.

so 3.3 trillion a year can be purchased

the entire crypto can in under 1.5 billion.

So basically all coins pos = piece of shit or pow


btw pow in the worst case scenario would help to melt all the ice and kill off 2-3 billion people.

Which is why Trump was looking to buy Greenland.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/cosmetics-billionaire-convinced-trump-u-121218552.html?


banning pow is not happening.

Not when the US is clearly attacking pos and stable coins with I bonds.

come back on Oct 2 when new I bond rates are given  they will be close to 9% and all of crypto especially stable coins and ETH will be attacked for 6 more months.

3) Never invest more than you can afford to lose
2)Not your keys not your coins.
1) be like JJG just DCA
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September 16, 2022, 12:45:51 PM
Last edit: September 16, 2022, 01:08:26 PM by LegendaryK
 #266

THE us is attacking all of crypto at the moment via Usa Savings bonds in particular the I bond.

As I type the I bond pays 9.62% for the first six moneys you purchased it.

Eth a wild card meaning not pegged to usd pays 3-4% staked

Most stable coins pegged to the USD pay 3-8%

Not when the US is clearly attacking pos and stable coins with I bonds.

come back on Oct 2 when new I bond rates are given  they will be close to 9% and all of crypto especially stable coins and ETH will be attacked for 6 more months.

I can accept the US is offering a higher interest rate,
to gain an influx into the US $.

But as you said,
IBOND over 9%,

BTC PoW coins are zero % for their holders.

And when rising energy costs, miners are begging for venture capital just to maintain PoW mining.
Putting the entire network at risk, however a PoW ban is coming, it is a foregone conclusion to all of these rolling blackouts in the US,
energy resources are stretched too thin, and PoW has to be removed to protect the grid's safety margin.
Bitcoin reward model does not become deflationary until 2140.
And that weak deflation is only from lost coins.
It's PoW tech will be banned worldwide by 2024.

Ethereum ~4%, but with the change to PoS,
Ethereum becomes deflationary,  
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2022-09-08/ethereum-upgrade-s-perks-include-crypto-deflation
Quote
The upgrade will effectively shift the blockchain from using miners to much more energy-efficient validators for ordering transactions and in doing so, will slash the amount of new Ether issued to reward various key entities involved in the process by about 90%.
At the same time, the network will continue to burn Ether.
That should bring Ether’s net coin supply inflation to zero or less, according to calculations by the Ethereum Foundation.
Crypto tracker Ultra Sound Money predicts Ether supply could peak right around the time of the Merge before beginning to decline.

With Ether’s supply stable, or even decreasing, that could potentially make every existing coin more valuable,

The US $ is seeing a massive assault from inflation in Energy and Food Costs.
While the Ibond hold over 9%, the falsy reported low inflation rate of 8.6% (We all know it is much higher),
means that Ibond is only earning .4% and since inflation is higher that IBond is really at a negative rate.
https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2022/consumer-prices-up-8-6-percent-over-year-ended-may-2022.htm

Ethereum and PoS coins are the only real games in town ,
as the US $ continues on the path to hyper inflation, their network can continue, and earnings verse fiat will increase.

BTC PoW will be banned by 2024, or be crushed before then by the rising energy costs from Utilities as Miners close shop to avoid bankruptcy.
https://www.coindesk.com/business/2022/09/01/bitcoin-mining-middleman-compass-georgia-facilities-to-close-as-energy-prices-soar/
Quote
Two Georgia facilities used by Compass Mining, a middleman that allows retail investors to participate in bitcoin production, are closing as power costs in the U.S. state soar.
The owner of the sites is shutting down because the local utility provider has increased prices, a major cost for bitcoin mining, by more than 50%


FYI:
It won't matter if IBONDS give 100% interest in US$ , if Inflation goes to 101%,
you are still in the negative %.   Tongue

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September 16, 2022, 03:48:58 PM
Merited by fillippone (6), JayJuanGee (1), cryptosize (1)
 #267

bitcoin can transform energy industry and there is much explanation to how this can be achieved, well it already in progress despite the fact that there have been many reports on it hight cost of electricity demand but there's fairness in it impact on the environment because as it has no detrimental cause or loss incurred during the process, time without number it has been said that bitcoin has no effect on environmental hazard, it rather give a solution in solving the already accumulated challenges through bitcoin carbon footprint lot need to be taught on this regarding the bitcoin mining and the corresponding impact on the environment which has been the course of discussion since the beginning of this thread and yet the argument of PoW from PoS shouldn't be a thing of contention because nothing can be changed from bitcoin using PoW because in doing this, miners get their rewards also.


source

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September 22, 2022, 10:07:29 PM
 #268

<...>

Great news, and, curiously, I got to the same Twitter Bubble a few days after you.

Yes, Bitcoin Mining can actually help oil producers to turn their waste methane, a very powerful greenhouse gas, into a precious resource used to mine bitcoins.

Upstream, as we saw in the thread, is building Power Generators running on the methane vended from oilfields, powering ASICS:




This can help bitcoin becoming carbon neutral, or even carbon negative!




Even legacy institutions, not exactly favorable of Bitcoin, are starting to realize how important it is.







I guess those are very good point, while discussing this topics with uninformed people!

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October 18, 2022, 09:25:33 PM
Merited by LFC_Bitcoin (3), JayJuanGee (1)
 #269

The Bitcoin Mining Council Released their Latest Update:



They pushed the rhetoric of Bitcoin as a clean energy usage accelerator:
Quote

Bitcoin mining, in Q3 2022:
1. Uses an inconsequential amount of global energy (16bps) and generates negligible carbon emissions (10bps)
2. Bitcoin mining hashrate is up 73% YoY while energy usage is up 41% YoY, due to an increase in efficiency of 23%
3. Bitcoin is the industry leader in sustainability with a 59.4% sustainable energy mix
4. Bitcoin is the most secure crypto network, 100x more
powerful than all competing networks combined.


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Zanab247
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October 19, 2022, 04:59:01 AM
 #270

Quote
The Bitcoin Mining Council Released their Latest Update:



They pushed the rhetoric of Bitcoin as a clean energy usage accelerator:
Quote

Bitcoin mining, in Q3 2022:
1. Uses an inconsequential amount of global energy (16bps) and generates negligible carbon emissions (10bps)
2. Bitcoin mining hashrate is up 73% YoY while energy usage is up 41% YoY, due to an increase in efficiency of 23%
3. Bitcoin is the industry leader in sustainability with a 59.4% sustainable energy mix
4. Bitcoin is the most secure crypto network, 100x more
powerful than all competing networks combined.


Read more here
I think, this is a sign that Bitcoin is not an environmental disaster to the community than to contribute positive things in the community by helping the youths to have access to the most secure crypto network in the community. This latest update will really make people to believe that Bitcoin is not an environmental disaster to the world economy than to create more opportunities for the users or miners to have access to sustainable network to improve their development in the community.
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October 19, 2022, 05:01:03 PM
 #271

The Bitcoin Mining Council Released their Latest Update:



They pushed the rhetoric of Bitcoin as a clean energy usage accelerator:
Quote

Bitcoin mining, in Q3 2022:
1. Uses an inconsequential amount of global energy (16bps) and generates negligible carbon emissions (10bps)
2. Bitcoin mining hashrate is up 73% YoY while energy usage is up 41% YoY, due to an increase in efficiency of 23%
3. Bitcoin is the industry leader in sustainability with a 59.4% sustainable energy mix
4. Bitcoin is the most secure crypto network, 100x more
powerful than all competing networks combined.


Read more here

Yes, very comprehensive, testing awareness about cryptocurrencies. The public focus is clearly on business development and investment. Addressing these challenges will require further ingenuity and innovation in increasingly constrained carbon (energy) and this is an opportunity for those in the sector.

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October 19, 2022, 05:40:13 PM
Last edit: October 21, 2022, 03:22:35 PM by stompix
Merited by fillippone (3)
 #272

They pushed the rhetoric of Bitcoin as a clean energy usage accelerator:

Because the others don't work anymore, so that's where they need to concentrate PR efforts.
Anyhow, another of those "researches"  show how unreliable this whole stuff is

let's put together two of their reports:
Q3 2021
https://bitcoinminingcouncil.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/2021.10.19-Q3-BMC-Presentation-Materials-Final.pdf
Q3 2022
https://bitcoinminingcouncil.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/2022.10.13-BMC-Presentation-Q3-22-Presentation.pdf

Now, spot the differences:



Oh wait, there aren't that many because they are recycling the data form other industries over and over for almost two years! Grin

Anyhow:
https://cointelegraph.com/news/banking-system-consumes-two-times-more-energy-than-bitcoin-research
Quote
Banking system consumes two times more energy than Bitcoin: Research
According to Galaxy’s estimates, the annual energy usage of Bitcoin stands at 114 TWh, while the banking industry consumes over 260 TWh each year.
RIP!  Grin

Christmas Lights Use More Power than Bitcoin Mining
RIP! Grin

Bitcoin Mining Consumes Less Energy Than Gaming, Reveals Report
RIP! Grin

Let's see if BTC reaches 100k before the halving what more of those from the list we can strart to scratch.

As I said previously:
Quote
It is what it is and that's the end of it, comparisons are just waiting around the corner to bite you in the ass
Seems it's that time already!

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