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Author Topic: Safest way of long term holding  (Read 800 times)
Lucius
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May 11, 2021, 12:26:06 PM
 #41

It wouldn't break down if you rarely use it, we still have a television in my home that is around 6 years already so I think that a HW will last that much longer. Maybe I will worry about the other things about storage when I already have it in my table but right now, I think saving some bitcoin is top priority.

It is not just a matter of use, damage of some kind can also occur due to some external influences such as humidity or exposure to increased temperature. When you talk about the time capsule, then it first occurs to me that you might bury the device underground in some sort of protection or you might even use concrete and hide it somewhere in your basement. At least when it comes to Ledger, I know that these are not some premium materials (at least as far as the S model is concerned), and that these devices are not made to last indefinitely.

As for other devices, I also have a TV that still works -  it's over 15 years old, and who knows how much longer would have lasted if the digital age hadn't sent it into a well-deserved retirement.

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May 11, 2021, 01:32:02 PM
 #42

For me I think the best way to invest and keep bitcoin safe is storing in a cold wallet, and by doing this you really need to keep your keys safe, I know some people will be like what if i misplace my keys! Well I think what is very important to us we shouldn't play with it or keep it carelessly, even if it warrant you storing it in multiple places. Keeping your asset in exchanges might be risky tho, anything which happens to the exchange affects your funds, and talking about hard wallet! I ain't used to it which makes me prefers cold wallet for keeping my assets safe.

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May 11, 2021, 02:45:45 PM
Last edit: May 11, 2021, 04:20:30 PM by Ararbermas
 #43

There's no safe place to store bitcoin mate especially long term wherein even you make backups through your computer or in any device its still useless because you know there some tragedy that sometimes happen in our life without knowing.. For example those that really cause totally damage especially super typhoon.  How can you assure those things where you stored your back up are really safe?.. I think its impossible..

Actually i saw some user here shared his idea how to save our private information on such incidents.  And it was engrave in a piece of solid metal which is a good idea and yes, i believe that's the safest way what i mean is even no matter what happen because its unbreakable and its up to you where to keep it.
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May 11, 2021, 06:57:21 PM
 #44

No way there's a safe long term investment, it always comes with a risk no matter how careful you are. However given how crazy the market is, even a useless token is a good investment. Long term holding will surely be fruitful especially now that the cryptocurrency is now being recognize around the world.

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May 11, 2021, 07:33:44 PM
 #45

No way there's a safe long term investment, it always comes with a risk no matter how careful you are. However given how crazy the market is, even a useless token is a good investment. Long term holding will surely be fruitful especially now that the cryptocurrency is now being recognize around the world.
every action has a risk not all coins are not safe to invest in the long term for example ethereum everyone who holds ethereum coins in the long term they can profit a lot. My advice, if you want to hold coins in the long term choose the top 10 there is a chance that you will get a profit.

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May 11, 2021, 08:13:56 PM
 #46

Keeping your asset in exchanges might be risky tho, anything which happens to the exchange affects your funds, and talking about hard wallet! I ain't used to it which makes me prefers cold wallet for keeping my assets safe.

When you say it like that, it seem exchange were an option before but since from the very begining they haven't been an option then you should go with the statement, Exchanges most especially the centralized ones are bad for the industry.

Exchanges this day have found a way to convince (actually decieving) users into trusting their funds with them. They constantly have engaging ads that'll make you want to engage with them 24/7 with your funds. They have Crowdfunding in exchange IEO, staking, Mining and the most recent which is farming.

They also present themselves as a safest way to store the variety of coins you would had picked interest in investing into them.

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May 11, 2021, 08:35:56 PM
 #47

There's no safe place to store bitcoin mate especially long term wherein even you make backups through your computer or in any device its still useless because you know there some tragedy that sometimes happen in our life without knowing.. For example those that really cause totally damage especially super typhoon.  How can you assure those things where you stored your back up are really safe?.. I think its impossible..

Actually i saw some user here shared his idea how to save our private information on such incidents.  And it was engrave in a piece of solid metal which is a good idea and yes, i believe that's the safest way what i mean is even no matter what happen because its unbreakable and its up to you where to keep it.
Keeping the Private Key in that piece of metal is a good idea as is the metal plate that some hard wallet products provide.

But it also needs to be supported by the best place to store it. do not carelessly save the valuable private key. You will still need the metal canister and store it in the ground like a treasure.

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May 12, 2021, 02:56:02 AM
 #48

~
Another one would be dusts as well upon the increased temperature as you mentioned. I guess keeping it in a really secluded container like trunk box or at least safe box would lessen the possibility of dust build-up.

Mine was scrapped because it just doesn't show the colors properly anymore. Cheesy
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May 12, 2021, 05:02:11 AM
 #49

There's no safe place to store bitcoin mate especially long term wherein even you make backups through your computer or in any device its still useless because you know there some tragedy that sometimes happen in our life without knowing.. For example those that really cause totally damage especially super typhoon.  How can you assure those things where you stored your back up are really safe?.. I think its impossible..
You Don't know about Ledger wallet? FYI you can store your coins there for very long time without any trouble in Typhoon or whatsoever .
Quote
Actually i saw some user here shared his idea how to save our private information on such incidents.  And it was engrave in a piece of solid metal which is a good idea and yes, i believe that's the safest way what i mean is even no matter what happen because its unbreakable and its up to you where to keep it.
It is our style how to keep it safe, even in paper or in metal the same process, we need to keep out from reach of others.
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May 12, 2021, 05:10:13 AM
 #50

~

It is not just a matter of use, damage of some kind can also occur due to some external influences such as humidity or exposure to increased temperature. When you talk about the time capsule, then it first occurs to me that you might bury the device underground in some sort of protection or you might even use concrete and hide it somewhere in your basement. At least when it comes to Ledger, I know that these are not some premium materials (at least as far as the S model is concerned), and that these devices are not made to last indefinitely.
If your devices compromised because of exposure to elements then probably you are doing it wrong in terms of storage. Not every time capsule needs to be buried underground. Also if you worry about humidity and moisture damage then you should just buy some silica gel desiccant.

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May 12, 2021, 12:17:16 PM
Merited by vapourminer (1), Karartma1 (1)
 #51

Another protocol for you to follow, my suggestion or recommendation, is to not simply store in cold storage and forget about it for 10 years, unless you are incapacitated or unconscious, is to simply look up and research the current events and keep updated.

The core website, any of the major bitcoin / crypto news websites. To keep up with news about any soft forks, hard forks, new address formats, ... I mean, it would be a good idea to switch from legacy to nested segwit, or skip directly to native segwit... and in the future there might be a new format for taproot and schnorr as that is being proposed right now.

Once a year, review your coins, and study how to transfer them to a new address safely.

Ideally, you would be contributing to your stash often enough that you can include this as part of your strategy for long term holding.

There are people out there who buy for their retirement every month. Once a year isn't too much huh?

This is in addition to doing anything to make sure the wallets are indeed cold storage, the computers or hardware you use have an air gap and all the other stuff mentioned by everyone else.

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May 12, 2021, 12:43:33 PM
 #52

Agree with @Dabs, don't just store your btc on a cold storage and walk away for long, occasional update yourself with latest happenings in the news about btc will help keep the person up to speed,  anything can change within the time you are absent,
Between the cold wallet storage should be kept in a cool dry place with the right temperature, and always try to inspect it at intervals to ensure it is working properly.

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May 12, 2021, 12:52:22 PM
 #53

Another protocol for you to follow, my suggestion or recommendation, is to not simply store in cold storage and forget about it for 10 years, unless you are incapacitated or unconscious, is to simply look up and research the current events and keep updated.

The core website, any of the major bitcoin / crypto news websites. To keep up with news about any soft forks, hard forks, new address formats, ... I mean, it would be a good idea to switch from legacy to nested segwit, or skip directly to native segwit... and in the future there might be a new format for taproot and schnorr as that is being proposed right now.

Once a year, review your coins, and study how to transfer them to a new address safely.

Ideally, you would be contributing to your stash often enough that you can include this as part of your strategy for long term holding.

There are people out there who buy for their retirement every month. Once a year isn't too much huh?

This is in addition to doing anything to make sure the wallets are indeed cold storage, the computers or hardware you use have an air gap and all the other stuff mentioned by everyone else.
Always good knowledge coming from you, if at least one noob will start dealing with bitcoin the right way after your post, you're to be thanked!
Buy, forget and store securely your bitcoin has long proven to be the most effective wealth advice for new bitcoin holders. I wish I'd have been given that advice in 2010
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July 28, 2021, 01:29:59 PM
 #54

It's good to hold but you have to be ready for the consequences and you have to keep in mind that the Bitcoin market can be anytime pumped to the sky or down to earth.

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July 28, 2021, 03:40:44 PM
 #55

Have you considered storing your Bitcoin on an interest account? You earn daily/ weekly/ monthly interests rather than letting it sit idle.

And if you are concerned about fraud, those service providers are insured.
can you mention what site provides the service.  I think I'm interested in investing there.  because I was once deceived by the bitcoin interest system and it ended up being a scam.  please provide the link.  thanks

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July 28, 2021, 03:43:24 PM
 #56

It's good to hold but you have to be ready for the consequences and you have to keep in mind that the Bitcoin market can be anytime pumped to the sky or down to earth.
The dump down to the ground is next to impossible, bitcoin has come a long way and I don't think that bitcoin is going to go back to some specific low numbers ever again. Well, you got to be ready but if you really are a long-term hodler then it wouldn't faze you if the prices are going down really bad.

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July 28, 2021, 04:05:14 PM
 #57

One way to secure your bitcoin in the long term is to have your keys. HW might help, but there are doubt that it will become obsolete if you just leave it without keeping up with regular updates. If you are a long term holder, it is your obligation to check your asset and storage wallet regularly and you may have to move all your asset to another wallet every 6 or 12 months. Another best advice is, don't put all your eggs in one basket. Make sure you have 2-5 or even 10 HW if your bitcoin are worth millions of dollars.

We invest in risky asset. Apart from fluctuating price, the security of your asset storage wallet will be your sole responsibility. If you want to get good security, then you should check it regularly. I know this isn't the best advice, but at least I think it can help people who want to get security for their assets.

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gwdf1
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July 28, 2021, 04:30:12 PM
 #58

The safest way of storing your assets is a cold(hardware) wallet. It is not connected to the Internet. It represents the USB-device. The most popular are Trezor and Ledger. You need to remember your private key and password for this device. So that even in case you lose your device, you will be able to restore access to your assets.
Don’t hold your tokens on exchanges’ wallets, only such sums of money that you are going to use there. 
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July 28, 2021, 04:55:09 PM
Last edit: July 28, 2021, 05:06:59 PM by kaggie
 #59

1) How to generate a private key safely? Online tools are obviously undesirable as they might keep a back door on all keys generated. Similar reason for any library or packages even they operate offline (I cannot check if these keys generated are in fact following some predetermined sequence).

I can use a random number generator on an offline PC. But I am not a real 'hacker' and have concerns on whether any programming language can produce truly random numbers that cannot be reproduced (or say predicted) on another PC. They might all rely on some external factors (such as time) which greatly reduce the possible key generated and make brutal force algorithms possible.

Currently, I can only think of throwing dice for key generating but that cannot scale.
The 1Feex and 12ib addresses prove that it is possible to store things long term.

As for random, a random number generator is mostly fine, except these things aren't random. You need a little bit of entropy. from any second source
A little bit goes a long way. This could be adding in a few characters to those random numbers that you personally have come up with.
A few bytes changed makes it more random than a computer.

A much more important thing is not using the default generated address from bitcoin core.

Every key has like 2^99 addresses that can be associated with it.
Bitcoin core uses the first one or two these possibilities. (I wish core was programmed so that you can put in your own
magic number / k value? Random is unnecessary here. I forget what it's called. Ideally you want this number to be very large..)
Using the default address generated by core and its low k means that all an 'attacker' has to do is match their key with few possibilities of addresses.
Still a lengthy process, but much less lengthy than any other method.

Python software is pretty good at generating addresses from keys, and you can easily look through most of it to see that the code doesn't open internet connections.

This can generate a wallet-import-format or wif, https://github.com/crcarlo/btcwif/blob/master/btcwif.py , although it is older.
pybitcoinwallet can generate addresses from this wif. Check that your software can make more than one address from any given key or wif.

import btcwif
key = '<insert 64 hex here>'
wif1 = btcwif.privToWif(key)

Separate out your keys into more than one to avoid the hopefully unlikely loss via any number of means.

Quote
2) I do not want to use any 3rd party software as a wallet. Suppose I just store my private key on a piece of paper and later transfer coins into it using exchanges. Would that be a valid transaction and allows me later to spend these coins? Is there anything else I need to store together with the private key (like the hashed transaction number in transaction_input in the blockchain? ScriptSig?) I really want to avoid 3rd party software because it might be obsolete in the future and data can be degraded. (Say if I use some sophisticated cold wallet, I may experience hardware degradation in  10 yrs, no one at that time used this software, programmers 10 yrs ago cannot be reached, and any trick in coding or encoding in the original version becomes obsolete. I would be a consumer rather than an investor of BTC...)
 

What's a wallet?

You don't need any software to save bitcoin since it's distributed across miners and nodes on the net. It is much harder to do without software though! You can import your key when ready into bitcoin core, but you will have to rescan the entire blockchain, which can take a while. I recommend trying it out with a small sum first. You don't want to make a mistake here. This test takes a long time.

Try not to spend your coin after transferring to your wallet to not give out your public address, although 12ib proves again that you can be 'safe' since it has several transactions out.

Degradation of code, software, and economics will always be an issue. You may want to keep an old computer that can use bitcoin core software. The internet and miner protocols shouldn't change over that time, but who knows. If quantum computing takes off in big ways or certain fakes have their way, then very old transactions may one day become invalid, so ideally you shouldn't become completely disconnected from your wealth for too long in the event of the unforeseeable.
AniviaBtc
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July 28, 2021, 08:34:29 PM
 #60

Try to buy hardware wallet because this is the most advisable way to store your coins in a safe place.

The safety of your coin depends on how careful and responsible you are as a bitcoin holder and investor.

It is really not safe to become confident storing all your coins in one place and not maximizing the advantages of the existence of hardware wallets like ledge nano, trezor, and other hardware wallets.

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