YOSHIE & his friends were abusing Trust System

[Fact Finder]

Ever since YOSHIE left the forum without a word for a while, my mind has become chaotic. He is a forum contributor who has contributed a lot to the forum. Her great skill in spotting scammers was appreciated and I felt good about her job.

Some things that I regret very much are not many people who support me to reveal the facts that actually happened to YOSHIE. Accused me of trolling and they were all YOSHIE trust networks helping each other and started to think that whatever I said was my attempt to damage YOSHIE's reputation.
I asked YOSHIE to sign a message after password reset via email during inactivity, but someone reasoned that YOSHIE didn't need to prove anything to me and this forum with a signed message. They want to distort the facts with their strength and lead to opinions that don't make sense.

Some of these users keep calling me a troll because I just want the facts to be clear. As I have said, I have no intention of hating YOSHIE but my suspicions about ownership of his account must be substantiated with a signed message.
Coolcryptovator began communicating with YOSHIE via telegram which had changed with a new identity. YOSHIE reasoned that his old telegram was a disposable number on the internet so Coolcryptovator had to prove its authenticity by asking YOSHIE to sign the message. YOSHIE reasoned that he would do it if he could because his health condition had not fully recovered.

Although Coolcryptovator was able to personally verify that it was the real YOSHIE, he never said that YOSHIE could not sign messages with his bitcoin address which was used to sign messages from this address: 15Z6q6STzyHawwHroemvmA7X4jsBdBH1MR and It is a hidden fact.

At the same time, YOSHIE tagged me with a neutral tag because I was considered a troll and took care of his personal matters when I didn't mean to. I consider it a misunderstanding that is too quickly judged. But moments later he gave me a negative tag with some modified words.

The Timelord2067 is full of enthusiasm and cowboy style to tag me with YOSHIE sentiment reasons but because Lucius came and said something
Timelord2067 decided to remove the tag for fear of being blamed for his carelessness. Jollygood also tagged me for reasons of YOSHIE sentiment and he is the third user. This cannot be justified when I want YOSHIE to prove to the public that he is right.

Timelord2067

2021-03-20

Reference

I echo Yoshie's sentiments: "Stupid, making up completely absurd stories, which he doesn't know, accounts like this are a disease for the public in this forum." (Delete)

YOSHIE and her two friends' actions are considered insulting to the trust system. But who believes and who cares?
You never immediately believe that someone who can't sign messages from their bitcoin address is the same person and we have to be careful about doing anything with them. But I am lost here because none of them support my perception.

Regarding the loan, I also don't mind if he is active especially Shasan never said anything about it, but he did tell us that YOSHIE still has 160 ETC outstanding loans. But since he never appeared, I was free to speculate on him. YOSHIE came back to life after I highlighted his loan problems with Shasan. He was annoyed and started making up a story that he had a problem as revealed by Coolcryptovator. Who will believe? Only people who exist in the YOSHIE trust system.

Now that Timelord2067 removed the tag on my profile, he started offering YOSHIE some ETH to help him pay off the loan to shasan which was previously thought not to be the cause of YOSHIE missing for some time even though YOSHIE has made it clear that there is no problem with the loan on its clarification thread. Today's Timelord2067 way of showing me support that he agrees with my previous speculation about YOSHIE not being able to repay the loan is correct. But I didn't want to make a big deal about it after YOSHIE was back on and let it do it on its own.

I've got ~ETH 0.21 which I don't mind sending your way to help payback the loan to shasan if that helps keep the Trolls off of your back.  The main thing is that you rest up and recover from your ordeal.

You've earned a break from this place for a while - see you when you get back.

I believe the current YOSHIE is the real YOSHIE because it seems like he is still very temperamental. His attitude was still the same as before he was lost. And now he can sign message with this address.

This kind of abuse of the trust system by dt is unfortunate. They act at will and abuse their power to protect their sects, friends and friends. They have broken the trust system and made it an irreplaceable kingdom. They are connected to each other and strengthen each other. Whatever it is, I take it as harassment. There is no exception when a user is eager to know the facts about what happened. The punishment was too quick because the hammer was in their hands. When the hammer is in the dog's mouth, justice belongs to the master.

It's up to you what you will tell me after all the facts you think are wrong. In fact, to date YOSHIE has not can been able to prove that it still has access to its old bitcoin address to sign messages and he is real YOSHIE.

YOSHIE, I don't hate you and apologize for my speculation. But the current behavior of you and your two friends has violated the trust system. You cannot be trusted and other dt members should take you off their trust list because I am not at fault for asking anything and want them to prove a fact.

Don't force me to fight injustice here myself, I don't want to be considered a troll and a forum contributor hater. The new fact is that it is very easy to tarnish the reputation of our own account if you don't completely agree with the dog holding his master's hammer.

[1713570816]

1713570816

[1713570816]

1713570816

[1713570816]

1713570816

[1713570816]

1713570816

[nutildah]

I don't want to be considered a troll and a forum contributor hater.

It's a bit late for that, seeing how that's pretty much all that you've done.

The new fact is that it is very easy to tarnish the reputation of our own account if you don't completely agree with the dog holding his master's hammer.

I... There's a lot going on in this sentence. But let's try to break it down. It seems like you are unhappy with having received a red tag from Yoshie on a different account and now you are trying to exact vengeance on him. Which isn't cool to begin with, but it's especially not cool seeing as how we tend to believe his story over anything you have to say.

Also, dogs can't hold hammers. They can't really hold anything, which is part of why thumbs are awesome.

[YOSHIE]

This is the first time I reply about you, very impressed, everyone in this forum is excited about your actions and behavior.

There are not many direct twists and turns, which I want to convey, read and ponder wisely.

YOSHIE, I don't hate you and apologize for my speculation.

Yes: you are not mistaken with me, it's just that you are too careless in judging and responding to someone, you are too reckless in your actions, that is what is called the "employer's eating weapon".

You cannot be trusted and other dt members should take you off their trust list because I am not at fault for asking anything and want them to prove a fact.

It seems, you don't really understand the DT work system, so you think DT is useless stuff, you can tinker with your behavior that looks sloppy and doesn't make sense.

I affirm for you:
What happens to you is not my will: but by your own deeds.


continue: for the belief system you mean, let's say DT.

Actually you go straight to the point below.

So if someone on DT1 is doing something stupid, you can ask other DT1 members to distrust them.

Should be before heading to the system written by @theymos, You should have checked the ground rules before going to that level.

What you need to learn first is the basis of the system, not to the point.
You seem to need to reread the rules below, before you take up your gun and point at another DT.

However, trolling isn't allowed. If a user is habitually posting obviously false nonsense ("obviously false nonsense" to an outsider, NOT to someone who follows or is involved in the discussion) just to stir up trouble, then it's considered trolling, which is prohibited. Such cases should be thoroughly documented in the report though (There are tons of reports that just say "trolling", but moderators don't have time to look through each user's post).

This is where you talk about nonsense that doesn't make sense and causes problems, you really deserve to be called a troll, it is strictly prohibited in this forum.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5324741.msg56599450#msg56599450

https://archive.vn/mKkou

Your real goals and intentions are below.

If my guess is correct, then YOSHIE is a forum contributor who is very untrustworthy because no matter how big his contribution, in the end he decided to make his profile and reputation tarnished by his attitude and tricks. So, what now do you think about YOSHIE?

Now you have it all, enjoy.


I've said it already: "God" is perfect.

My advice to you:
If you do not have expertise in your field, you should not do it, it can all turn for yourself, for the future both in real life and on the internet, in the end the regret that you get, that is: envy, slander, and lust, can destroy you yourself.

[LoyceV]

I don't consider this correct use of the Trust system:

Allow me to quote the creator of the Trust system:

The system is for handling trade risk, not for flagging people for good/bad posts/personalities/ideas.

That being said:

You will know what is the reason I don't use the main account.

You expected this, and it's the reason you created this account in the first place. It's obvious you have some beef with YOSHIE. You can just abandon this account, there's no real loss for you.
Many DT-members left one or a few feedbacks I disagree with. I always look at is as a bell curve: if it's not too much, I won't exclude a user for it. Agreeing 100% is virtually impossible. That's unfortunate for some feedbacks, but I can't change that.

YOSHIE came back to life after I highlighted his loan problems with Shasan. He was annoyed and started making up a story

Now you're just speculating. I have no reason to doubt YOSHIE: he was in a well-earning signature campaign and didn't post for a few weeks. That doesn't sound like someone who left to forum to abandon an open loan.

YOSHIE, I don't hate you and apologize for my speculation.

Really, in the same post you're speculating, you also apologize for it?

However, trolling isn't allowed. If a user is habitually posting obviously false nonsense ("obviously false nonsense" to an outsider, NOT to someone who follows or is involved in the discussion) just to stir up trouble, then it's considered trolling, which is prohibited. Such cases should be thoroughly documented in the report though (There are tons of reports that just say "trolling", but moderators don't have time to look through each user's post).

This is where you talk about nonsense that doesn't make sense and causes problems, you really deserve to be called a troll, it is strictly prohibited in this forum.

The general consensus is that anything that's covered by the unofficial forum rules shouldn't be handled through the Trust system.  You're quoting mprep who letterally says to report the posts, not to tag someone for it.

The problem with leaving red tags for people's opinion is that red tags lose their meaning. OP is a Newbie, so I wouldn't trust him with any money, but that doesn't put him at the same level as a Newbie who actually scammed someone and therefore deserves negative feedback.

[shasan]

YOSHIE came back to life after I highlighted his loan problems with Shasan.

Who told you that there is a problem with me regarding the loan? We have no problem, we have regular communication. Even I didn't  know about the inactivity. When I came to know then I contacted and got response within few minutes. So, obviously there is no problem and no miscommunication. And for you kind information if we had any problem then I would mention that  by giving a neutral/negative trust. So, you should not make a headache for it.

[Stalker22]

...I asked YOSHIE to sign a message after password reset via email during inactivity...

Actually, you wanted a great deal more:

Password changed, telegram changed, wallet changed and I am sure that the story would be very believable if all of this could be proven by YOSHIE himself with documents from his hospitalization as did Phinnaeus Gage before his death.

Care to explain what gives you the authority to ask any user for personal information? Not to mention that medical information is further protected by patient confidentiality.

As I have said, I have no intention of hating YOSHIE but my suspicions about ownership of his account must be substantiated with a signed message.

Let's stop right here. I don't think YOSHIE (or anyone else, for that matter) has to substantiate anything to you or to anyone else here.
You don't trust a particular user? Fine. Don't do business with him. Put him on Ignore and remove him from your Trust network. Case closed.
You have evidence or indications that a user is cheating, scamming or might do some other bad things on the forum? Great! Open a scam accusation or reputation thead, present your evidence and ask for the community's opinion. Case closed.

Don't force me to fight injustice here myself, I don't want to be considered a troll and a forum contributor hater.

It's amusing when you say that while reading this nonsense:

In fact, shasan is not too brave to say that YOSHIE has bad loans because of YOSHIE's reputation. But if that happens to someone else, then I'm sure he will do it right away. Even he was not brave enough to come here to dispel the speculation about the loan.

What the fuck was that? So you've accused YOSHIE of loan default without proper evidence, and you've also accused shasan of being a coward?
You don't just throw accusations around unless you can prove them.

Clearly, you have some personal grudges, resentments, or frustrations against YOSHIE, but you're not man enough to bring them up with your main account, preferring instead to hide behind a newbie throwaway account (by your own admission). So, who is the real coward in this scenario?

[marlboroza]

So YOSHIE has active loan for over a year now, he went offline for couple of weeks, someone raised good question - and got tagged because they are...newbie account recognized as troll That's just wow!

I don't consider this correct use of the Trust system:

Me neither.

Maybe it is just me, but when I lend someone money I expect to see that money on arranged date. Ok, maybe person who borrow money can't repay it on time, so I could go with extension, I mean, what the heck else I can do except to hope that I will see my money back? Nothing, really.

So what does this "we communicate" exactly mean? Someone is telling you that they will return you your money then next month they are telling you "don't worry, I will return you your money" then next month they are telling you again "I will return you your money, don't worry" over and over again, until when? I've been there couple of times, don't trust such people with money! They will probably eventually return you money, but the time you have to wait for it...uhhh.

And really, things which Fact Finer said and Timelord2067 offering money to YOSHIE to repay part of loan:

Today's Timelord2067 way of showing me support that he agrees with my previous speculation about YOSHIE not being able to repay the loan is correct.

I've got ~ETH 0.21 which I don't mind sending your way to help payback the loan to shasan if that helps keep the Trolls off of your back.  The main thing is that you rest up and recover from your ordeal.

You've earned a break from this place for a while - see you when you get back.

...does it mean Timelord2067 is trying to help YOSHIE because he knows YOSHIE can't repay loan, I mean, if YOSHIE can repay loan then Timelord2067 wouldn't offer him help to repay loan.
My conclusion: I won't trust YOSHIE with money as he showed that he is incapable of returning it on time (errr...at the moment -he is not capable to return it), and, I will counter these negatives on OP's wall linking this post as referrence.

[nutildah]

So YOSHIE has active loan for over a year now, he went offline for couple of weeks, someone raised good question -

Not a good question. That thread was created with the simple goal of shitsmearing. It's obviously an alt of somebody who was tagged by Yoshie for what could be a legitimate reason.

and got tagged because they are...newbie account recognized as troll That's just wow!

I don't consider this correct use of the Trust system:

Me neither.

Maybe not but I am less offended when accounts created for the specific purpose of trolling are tagged for dubious reasons. I'm just a racist in that way, I suppose.

Maybe it is just me, but when I lend someone money I expect to see that money on arranged date. Ok, maybe person who borrow money can't repay it on time, so I could go with extension, I mean, what the heck else I can do except to hope that I will see my money back? Nothing, really.

Not your problem or concern in the slightest and not worth pontificating upon.

I will counter these negatives on OP's wall linking this post as referrence.

So you positive trusted an obvious troll account who is seeking revenge on somebody by bringing up an issue that has nothing to do with anything?

[Insanerman]

All I can comprehend in this issue is that there are still users that uses the Trust System as their line of defense to maintain a good image in the forum. I don't get why it is their basis of defense against other people that oppose them in ways that doesn't really imply trading risks nor has money involvement. I salute the points of the OP as it was a clear and straightforward argument yet using negative trusts just to tell everyone that users must believe your side is a No-no. I'm not just pertaining to YOSHIE nor TimeLord, I talk about everyone who still sees the Trust System as their shield against bad image and accusations.

Aren't we all tired of this issues? I guess it is better to just resolve everything in a clean argumentative way, by publishing a single thread that would showcase sides of both parties. Newbie or not, if there would be evidences against one another, then there would be the answer.

Yes, there are both loop-holes on both sides. But if the main accuser doesn't really provide any evidences that would strengthen his argument, how can we believe? I mean isn't ignoring the topic enough. In psychology, the more you give attention to people that seeks your attention is the more they thrive and be aggressive for it. Hence, once the OP provides enough evidences with his claims, then the opposing side must provide their proof as well. If there was not, then should we bother giving this a time?

[marlboroza]

Not a good question. That thread was created with the simple goal of shitsmearing. It's obviously an alt of somebody who was tagged by Yoshie for what could be a legitimate reason.

Someone didn't repay loan for more than a year. How is that not a good question?  Actually, I am pretty damn sure that most people would like to know that info before someone ask them money, just to know what they can expect.

Not your problem or concern in the slightest and not worth pontificating upon.

I know it's not, I only shared my opinion about people who don't repay loans on time, call it life experience. Perhaps you have different opinion about this and that's fine. I actually wasn't aware of this, but as I am now, I am very disappointed with yoshie.

So you positive trusted an obvious troll account who is seeking revenge on somebody by bringing up an issue that has nothing to do with anything?

But it has something to do with money, so it is reputation and trust issue. Anyway, I countered ratings. When users decide to place neutral feedbacks for so called "trolling purposes" I will gladly remove it.

[shasan]

Someone didn't repay loan for more than a year.

I am getting partial repayment almost each month. And I am getting response when I am sending message, so there is no problem about the loan. Even I got partial repayment last month.

[actmyname]

Can we stop contemptuously tagging new accounts and acting with impunity toward the typical use of the trust system?

Don't write your own self-fulfilling prophecies, waiting until users are brimming with indignant rage and replies to complete the circle. This is just a skewed version of accepting a conclusion and developing confirmation bias.

[YOSHIE]

I am very disappointed with yoshie

Calm down friends, don't say like that, i feel sad, i am still like before, i don't disappoint you, we are still strong like before.

You see this:

I am getting partial repayment almost each month. And I am getting response when I am sending message, so there is no problem about the loan. Even I got partial repayment last month.

Get rid of your doubts and be disappointed, all is well.

You know me, I also understand about you, this is just a misunderstanding, long term, that's our decision.

However, we can finish it whenever we want between me and shasan, today, one year, two years, three years or the next five years.

[actmyname]

Get rid of your doubts and be disappointed, all is well.

Whether you repaid your loan or not is irrelevant to the fact that the feedback pertains to an inquiry.

I do not tag people for being wrong. Is there something that separates the original user's investigation with the curiosity of the other users which replied to the thread? Is it the fact that it was more detailed or that there was a relevant hypothetical?On the subject of the loan, though, one would expect a rational lender to strike a public complaint when something does go wrong. However, making an assumption like this as a starting base would not be the most practical avenue to proceed through.

[nutildah]

Not a good question. That thread was created with the simple goal of shitsmearing. It's obviously an alt of somebody who was tagged by Yoshie for what could be a legitimate reason.

Someone didn't repay loan for more than a year. How is that not a good question?  Actually, I am pretty damn sure that most people would like to know that info before someone ask them money, just to know what they can expect.

Because, as I said, it doesn't concern you in the slightest. Yoshie has an ongoing negotiation with shasan. If shasan isn't bothered with it, neither should you be. It's a bit rude and low to poke around dredging up drama about people's outstanding loans if they are not actively seeking new loans. So what? He's not perfect. Neither is anybody.

But it has something to do with money, so it is reputation and trust issue. Anyway, I countered ratings. When users decide to place neutral feedbacks for so called "trolling purposes" I will gladly remove it.

You're also saying this person is trustworthy by leaving them a positive trust. I don't know what you seek in going out of your way to protect what is obviously a shit-stirring sockpuppet.

[marlboroza]

You see this:

I am getting partial repayment almost each month. And I am getting response when I am sending message, so there is no problem about the loan. Even I got partial repayment last month.

Yes, but you see, you asked for a loan in January and you said you will repay it in February, in February you said that you will repay remaining amount in March and in March you said that you will repay everything in April. And now, you are partially repaying something you supposed to repay a year ago. So if you ever take another loan and you say you will return it next month, lender can expect to see money next year, right?

Because, as I said, it doesn't concern you in the slightest. Yoshie has an ongoing negotiation with shasan. If shasan isn't bothered with it, neither should you be.

Errrr...last time I checked someone open topic complaining about negative trust they received and I thought this is discussion forum so I replied.

It's a bit rude and low to poke around dredging up drama about people's outstanding loans if they are not actively seeking new loans. So what? He's not perfect. Neither is anybody.

Aha, so it is OK to not repay loan on time as long as you don't seek new loan and tag users who asked few questions, right? 

You're also saying this person is trustworthy by leaving them a positive trust.

It is not what I have said, nutildah...

[nutildah]

Anybody is free to say anything.

Should they?

That's another story.

[YOSHIE]

Yes, but you see, you asked for a loan in January and you said you will repay it in February, in February you said that you will repay remaining amount in March and in March you said that you will repay everything in April. And now, you are partially repaying something you supposed to repay a year ago. So if you ever take another loan and you say you will return it next month, lender can expect to see money next year, right?

What is shown here about my loan that has been frozen / expired is no longer valid, it's just that we continue via PM and Telegram in the future, as Shasan said.

So, no more updates in the shasan thread, we already trust each other for lending, we only discuss it in PM and Telegram, without involving the Forum again, it's just that the Reference in my profile is for a handle on shasan in the future, If there is a problem, however, for now everything is real and safe, the lender and the recipient are both happy.

Actually this problem is frozen / dead, it's just that people who don't know about us, want to bring up the old ones that have been buried, in other words they don't know the truth, In my opinion, the loan is personal, so, as long as the loan is secured, it is not a burden and is happy, I feel it is fine.

I feel sad you say "disappointed" because of the troll, actually this is not the first thread, already 3 threads have done like this with the same account.
You don't need to hesitate about me and shasan's "loan", we have a commitment.
I am still the old Yoshie, in your mind, have not changed one bit.

[suchmoon]

From an entirely practical POV, how does red-trusting a shit-stirring noob (if that's what this is; I don't understand 80% of what YOSHIE says so I can't be sure of anything here) help anything or anyone? It just gives more ammunition to shit stirring noobs. The same has been true for years with cryptohunter's sockpuppets, the same is true for any other shit-stirrer. A sockpuppet created for the sole purpose to post some nonsense (free speech FTW) isn't gonna be stopped or "learned" via red trust, and the particularly nasty ones will probably spin it as proof of whatever they're alleging. Whereas a calm factual statement in italic can carry the same warning without misusing the trust system.

I'm not gonna lecture you all on the guidelines of the trust system, from what's posted on the actual trust pages ("high risk" etc) to everything theymos has said over the years on this subject to LoyceV's blood and tears invested in his trust guide. I know we are all super smart and measuring the garage for a Lambo so we can't possibly follow any rules or advice or whatever but how about logic and common sense. Any of that left on this forum?

[nutildah]

From an entirely practical POV, how does red-trusting a shit-stirring noob (if that's what this is; I don't understand 80% of what YOSHIE says so I can't be sure of anything here) help anything or anyone?

It doesn't, and it matters about as much as the shit-stirring alt account itself, which is not very much.

I think issuing a positive counter-trust to such an account is an over-reaction; perhaps worse than Yoshie's neg tag on a throwaway account.

This Fact Finder account was created purely to stir shit. If they had honest intentions they would have just posted from their main account.

Just because someone creates an alt account to "say things that can't be said from a main account", it doesn't mean what they have to say is at all valuable or relevant.

If someone walks into a room wearing a mask, says "I'm doing this to protect my reputation, I don't want to be criticized," and then proceeds to smear feces all over the walls, they don't have the right to be thought highly of.

It's a low blow to hound a guy over a loan when the lender has expressly made clear that it's all good. And I definitely would not label OP's behavior of throwing shit around to see what sticks as "trustworthy."

Is Yoshie/JollyGood/Timelord's use of the trust system proper in this instance? Probably not. But its not like they are dissuading the next Vitalik Buterin from participating in the forum. This person was likely issued a red trust by Yoshie on another account and now they are trying to get revenge. It's a blind stab at retribution that is totally tactless given Yoshie's recent misfortune.