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Author Topic: The fine line between market investment and sports gambling  (Read 1308 times)
KTChampions
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April 09, 2021, 09:15:54 AM
 #101

We will have to agree to disagree here, because I do not see investing as speculation at all, a person investing in a business is doing so because that person really believes in the business in question and it is not really interested in selling their assets anytime soon or ever, after all if you are invested in a good business then why sell? This is why bitcoin holders always urge people to keep holding their coins no matter what as they have no plans of selling soon and maybe ever.

In the first part, I completely agree - if the business remains relevant and satisfies the needs of people, then there is no point in selling a stake in it as it makes a profit. As for the holding of crypto, this phenomenon also has a negative side - because of this, practical application falls, which sooner or later will lead to a fall in the price of the asset itself.


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April 09, 2021, 10:01:14 AM
 #102

It seems to me that you are confusing investment with trading, traders are the ones that speculate with the price of an asset on the short term, investors do not really speculate, they look at the fundamentals of an asset and then they try to project to the future whether or not that asset is going to be more valuable in the future and if they think that is the case then they put their money in that asset, this is precisely what is happening now with institutional investors coming to bitcoin at the moment
They're the same, both are involved in speculation, just that the time frame that the both of them look at is different.
We will have to agree to disagree here, because I do not see investing as speculation at all, a person investing in a business is doing so because that person really believes in the business in question and it is not really interested in selling their assets anytime soon or ever, after all if you are invested in a good business then why sell? This is why bitcoin holders always urge people to keep holding their coins no matter what as they have no plans of selling soon and maybe ever.

Yes, investment and gambling are entirely different things and should no be compared with each other. People invest for long/medium term and the risk is very less if the investment is in the right place.
On the other hand, gambling is highly risky task and only those who can afford to lose their money should gamble.

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April 09, 2021, 10:41:29 AM
 #103

They are just two different thing but very similar. investment is a means to earn from your keeping why the so called gambling doesn't but wen appropriately done and win then you will earn reward. Investment isn't gambling and gambling won't be like investment, except when the operators tend to be illegal about the two. 
Investing can be a a problem to when we only just go with it without studying it, its like taking a gambling since we dont5do research but it can lessen when we do our research and what to buy and hold. It is less riskier and we have fully control on what decision we will do unlike in gambling that the House who controls it.
An investment into bitcoin will be such that will help investors secure their funds than gambling. There are distinct differences between these two, gambling is purely lucky base while investment solely depends on ability to manage the available funds. In gambling i have lost severally but in investment has always be mindful of my funds management.

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April 09, 2021, 04:17:31 PM
 #104

They are just two different thing but very similar. investment is a means to earn from your keeping why the so called gambling doesn't but wen appropriately done and win then you will earn reward. Investment isn't gambling and gambling won't be like investment, except when the operators tend to be illegal about the two. 
Investing can be a a problem to when we only just go with it without studying it, its like taking a gambling since we dont5do research but it can lessen when we do our research and what to buy and hold. It is less riskier and we have fully control on what decision we will do unlike in gambling that the House who controls it.
An investment into bitcoin will be such that will help investors secure their funds than gambling. There are distinct differences between these two, gambling is purely lucky base while investment solely depends on ability to manage the available funds. In gambling i have lost severally but in investment has always be mindful of my funds management.
If they can use the investment section in the gambling site, they will have a chance to make more money than playing gambling. But that will depend on how they will use their money on the gambling site because many people use the money to gamble to search for fun. We can choose what we need to do, and we can also use gambling for fun and use the investment that is available on that site to earn additional profit.

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April 10, 2021, 04:42:09 AM
 #105

We will have to agree to disagree here, because I do not see investing as speculation at all, a person investing in a business is doing so because that person really believes in the business in question and it is not really interested in selling their assets anytime soon or ever, after all if you are invested in a good business then why sell? This is why bitcoin holders always urge people to keep holding their coins no matter what as they have no plans of selling soon and maybe ever.

In the first part, I completely agree - if the business remains relevant and satisfies the needs of people, then there is no point in selling a stake in it as it makes a profit. As for the holding of crypto, this phenomenon also has a negative side - because of this, practical application falls, which sooner or later will lead to a fall in the price of the asset itself.
It is true the price of bitcoin can go down but just as it demonstrated during this year even if you invested at a bad price just as many people did during 2017 or 2018 there is still a lot of potential to make profits as long as you keep holding your coins, I know it is not easy as those people would have had in theory to keep holding their coins for 3 years just to breakeven but even then they will still be making 200% profits if they did so, and that is if we assume they bought at the worst possible time which shows to me why investing is not really gambling even if some people mistakenly believe it.


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April 10, 2021, 01:41:08 PM
 #106

In the first part, I completely agree - if the business remains relevant and satisfies the needs of people, then there is no point in selling a stake in it as it makes a profit. As for the holding of crypto, this phenomenon also has a negative side - because of this, practical application falls, which sooner or later will lead to a fall in the price of the asset itself.
It is true the price of bitcoin can go down but just as it demonstrated during this year even if you invested at a bad price just as many people did during 2017 or 2018 there is still a lot of potential to make profits as long as you keep holding your coins, I know it is not easy as those people would have had in theory to keep holding their coins for 3 years just to breakeven but even then they will still be making 200% profits if they did so, and that is if we assume they bought at the worst possible time which shows to me why investing is not really gambling even if some people mistakenly believe it.

Yes, until today, any investment in bitcoin has been profitable (if you had the will and the money to wait out the 85% drawdown), but there is no guarantee that it will be so in the future. If new projects begin to perform the function that was originally assigned to bitcoin (fast and cheap payments on the Internet) and gain wide recognition, then they will become more competitive with bitcoin and it will be difficult for it to maintain its position.


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April 10, 2021, 05:36:41 PM
 #107

If they can use the investment section in the gambling site, they will have a chance to make more money than playing gambling.
Not that making more, investing to a bankroll needs time to make money and it's not that what you think as easy as what you say. It requires time for you to make with that feature.

But that will depend on how they will use their money on the gambling site because many people use the money to gamble to search for fun. We can choose what we need to do, and we can also use gambling for fun and use the investment that is available on that site to earn additional profit.
Fun, investment, making money with gambling, yes, all of those things depends on how the gambler will make his money and put it into purpose.




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April 13, 2021, 06:00:23 AM
 #108

They are just two different thing but very similar. investment is a means to earn from your keeping why the so called gambling doesn't but wen appropriately done and win then you will earn reward. Investment isn't gambling and gambling won't be like investment, except when the operators tend to be illegal about the two. 
Investing can be a a problem to when we only just go with it without studying it, its like taking a gambling since we dont5do research but it can lessen when we do our research and what to buy and hold. It is less riskier and we have fully control on what decision we will do unlike in gambling that the House who controls it.
So the investment will help us earn the reward in the future, and if we can get the right investment, such as investing in bitcoin, we can profit in the future. But that will not happen in gambling because we can lose all of the money without we can try to recover. Maybe if we can use the money that we spend for gambling to invest in something like bitcoin and other coins, we can a nice return in the future. But make sure you learn before you invest so you will not make a wrong decision.

In my opinion, there is a significant difference between gambling and investing. 

Gambling is a zero-sum game.  One player wins, the other loses.  Moreover, as a rule, the organizer of the gambling game has a competitive advantage in the game. 

Investing is always a winning strategy.  Investment is the investor's bet on progress.  The modern financial system is inflationary.  In monetary terms, the capitalization of all global companies is constantly growing. 

The price of one individual share may fall, but stock indices are showing constant growth. 

Under these conditions, a patient investor is guaranteed to make a profit.
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April 13, 2021, 10:37:33 AM
 #109


In my opinion, there is a significant difference between gambling and investing. 

Gambling is a zero-sum game.  One player wins, the other loses.  Moreover, as a rule, the organizer of the gambling game has a competitive advantage in the game. 

Investing is always a winning strategy.  Investment is the investor's bet on progress.  The modern financial system is inflationary.  In monetary terms, the capitalization of all global companies is constantly growing. 

The price of one individual share may fall, but stock indices are showing constant growth. 

Under these conditions, a patient investor is guaranteed to make a profit.

There are many investments that are also a zero sum game - such as binary options in which for one party to win, the other has to loose necessarily, so that is not a good criteria to discriminate. Investing is not always a wining strategy - there is plenty of money and value to be lost and it is indeed lost everyday since there are companies that go to zero all over. In fact, most do go to zero in the first few years.

Lastly, the organisers of the market usually have built-in advantages, although I admit that small investors do have other advantages that they can use, such as being able to invest in illiquid and small assets.




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April 13, 2021, 11:16:13 AM
 #110

If they can use the investment section in the gambling site, they will have a chance to make more money than playing gambling.
Not that making more, investing to a bankroll needs time to make money and it's not that what you think as easy as what you say. It requires time for you to make with that feature.
That is the consequences that they should get from the investment. The waiting time for the investment will not have just in a short time because sometimes, they need to wait for months until they can profit from the investment.

But that will depend on how they will use their money on the gambling site because many people use the money to gamble to search for fun. We can choose what we need to do, and we can also use gambling for fun and use the investment that is available on that site to earn additional profit.
Fun, investment, making money with gambling, yes, all of those things depends on how the gambler will make his money and put it into purpose.
But many gamblers can not earn money from gambling instead only lose their money many times. If they see that, they ought to realize that they can not make money from gambling, so they must leave gambling before it is too late for them.

==

In my opinion, there is a significant difference between gambling and investing. 

Gambling is a zero-sum game.  One player wins, the other loses.  Moreover, as a rule, the organizer of the gambling game has a competitive advantage in the game. 

Investing is always a winning strategy.  Investment is the investor's bet on progress.  The modern financial system is inflationary.  In monetary terms, the capitalization of all global companies is constantly growing. 

The price of one individual share may fall, but stock indices are showing constant growth. 

Under these conditions, a patient investor is guaranteed to make a profit.
Indeed. What you are saying is right and I agree with you. The investment can be their way to make money in the future, but only if they can select the right investment by researching the right. Maybe they can lose from the investment, but the value of the investment can increase back in the future, so they can still profit from that. If someone wants to make money from the investment, they must research and select the investment. Otherwise, that will be the same as gambling.

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April 13, 2021, 12:35:54 PM
 #111

In the broad sense of the word, both are gambling. There's not much difference between the two. It's just that there are various interpretations of the word, various contexts on which gambling could be construed differently.

Gambling could refer to placing bets on a game of chance or on a sports team as much as it could refer to taking a risk making a bid order in a stock market or on a crypto exchange platform. However, most of the time gambling in the sense of the former is more on merely having fun and taking blind chances while the latter is oftentimes understood as a serious undertaking which involves a lot of informed analysis.

At the end of the day, I don't think one should be made illegal while the other legal. But both should be highly regulated.

I can't agree more.

Both have their own level of risk and returns but both are good ways on earning money if you know what you're into and what you're doing. Plainly entering both market just because of peer pressure would not help anyone but will just lose all of their money in the long run. The regulation and other legal stuff is all about securing the both business and its clients safe and free from any illegal deeds of the gambling sites or the clients.

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April 13, 2021, 06:37:55 PM
 #112

It is true the price of bitcoin can go down but just as it demonstrated during this year even if you invested at a bad price just as many people did during 2017 or 2018 there is still a lot of potential to make profits as long as you keep holding your coins, I know it is not easy as those people would have had in theory to keep holding their coins for 3 years just to breakeven but even then they will still be making 200% profits if they did so, and that is if we assume they bought at the worst possible time which shows to me why investing is not really gambling even if some people mistakenly believe it.

Yes, until today, any investment in bitcoin has been profitable (if you had the will and the money to wait out the 85% drawdown), but there is no guarantee that it will be so in the future. If new projects begin to perform the function that was originally assigned to bitcoin (fast and cheap payments on the Internet) and gain wide recognition, then they will become more competitive with bitcoin and it will be difficult for it to maintain its position.
On that we are an agreement past performance is not indicative of future performance, we do not know if the price of bitcoin is going to keep going up, I believe it will because the fundamentals of bitcoin are that strong but I do not have a crystal ball so I cannot know for sure, however bitcoin is slowly reaching a point of no return, think of social media and the giant that Facebook is, unless there is government intervention it is going to be very difficult for another social media website to surpass Facebook, and if despite all of that a new social media website appears that could become a competitor Facebook can just buy them out, and even if this does not translate directly very well in the market of cryptocurrencies, bitcoin is reaching a position that is so dominant that if a competitor does not appear soon then we can say that most likely it is not going to ever appear.


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April 14, 2021, 10:35:54 AM
 #113

<...>

indeed, inveting is not always guaranteed to make great returns over the longer run if one makes bad decisions
though if managing risk and being responsible the possiblity of a positive outcome is much higher than with gambling.

it's also much harder to find an edge while gambling than on investing.

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April 14, 2021, 12:36:34 PM
 #114


In my opinion, there is a significant difference between gambling and investing. 

Gambling is a zero-sum game.  One player wins, the other loses.  Moreover, as a rule, the organizer of the gambling game has a competitive advantage in the game. 

Investing is always a winning strategy.  Investment is the investor's bet on progress.  The modern financial system is inflationary.  In monetary terms, the capitalization of all global companies is constantly growing. 

The price of one individual share may fall, but stock indices are showing constant growth. 

Under these conditions, a patient investor is guaranteed to make a profit.

There are many investments that are also a zero sum game - such as binary options in which for one party to win, the other has to loose necessarily, so that is not a good criteria to discriminate. Investing is not always a wining strategy - there is plenty of money and value to be lost and it is indeed lost everyday since there are companies that go to zero all over. In fact, most do go to zero in the first few years.

Lastly, the organisers of the market usually have built-in advantages, although I admit that small investors do have other advantages that they can use, such as being able to invest in illiquid and small assets.


Yes, you are absolutely right - Binary Options is a classic zero sum game.  In my opinion, binary options are not a classic investment, but rather a hedging instrument. 

However, when investing for long periods of time using the hodla strategy, the patient investor tends to make a profit.  The basic rule is to invest in different stocks (to differentiate risks). 

As the proverb says - "You don't need to put all chicken eggs in one basket." 

The stock market accumulates surplus funds that (otherwise) could enter the consumer market and lead to hyperinflation.
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April 14, 2021, 02:15:27 PM
 #115

<...>

indeed, inveting is not always guaranteed to make great returns over the longer run if one makes bad decisions
though if managing risk and being responsible the possiblity of a positive outcome is much higher than with gambling.

it's also much harder to find an edge while gambling than on investing.
As long as we can get the right investment, we can make a profit in the future. But we need to know how to manage the risk or select the investment to get a positive result. The fine line between investment and gambling can confuse people because if they do not research more about both things, they can gamble with their money which does not give them the profit.

Maybe the benefit of gambling is we can feel relax and have fun but if we play longer, that can make us lose money. At the same time, the investment will give us more return than gambling.

.
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April 14, 2021, 09:59:07 PM
 #116

<...>

indeed, inveting is not always guaranteed to make great returns over the longer run if one makes bad decisions
though if managing risk and being responsible the possiblity of a positive outcome is much higher than with gambling.

it's also much harder to find an edge while gambling than on investing.
As long as we can get the right investment, we can make a profit in the future. But we need to know how to manage the risk or select the investment to get a positive result. The fine line between investment and gambling can confuse people because if they do not research more about both things, they can gamble with their money which does not give them the profit.

Maybe the benefit of gambling is we can feel relax and have fun but if we play longer, that can make us lose money. At the same time, the investment will give us more return than gambling.
Gambling is really should for the sake of entertainment but people do really go on the wrong path on having wrong views and perception that this one could really make them rich
but it doesnt really work that way and the time they do lost up money then thats the time they would make up some realizations that this isnt something can be compared with investment
or making themselves rich because gambling does have its own purpose which is really filling out that pleasure seeking of you than on making investment which is totally
inappropriate to have in mind.Always seek out for specific investment if you are really eager to deal with long term.




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blackjack.fun


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April 15, 2021, 02:32:13 AM
 #117

==
Gambling is really should for the sake of entertainment but people do really go on the wrong path on having wrong views and perception that this one could really make them rich
but it doesnt really work that way and the time they do lost up money then thats the time they would make up some realizations that this isnt something can be compared with investment
or making themselves rich because gambling does have its own purpose which is really filling out that pleasure seeking of you than on making investment which is totally
inappropriate to have in mind.Always seek out for specific investment if you are really eager to deal with long term.
Maybe if they can have one investment that can give them profit, that will make them realize that only investment helps them make money in some term instead of playing gambling. Actually, if they are often losing in the gambling game, they can see how big their chance to make money. If they think that gambling is not working for them to make money, they must leave it forever and never playing gambling. We should do if we want to change our lives better so we do not deal with gambling too often and only playing gambling in our spare time without using too big money.

.
..........
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.....I AM BLACKJACK.FUN.....
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Lucasgabd
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April 15, 2021, 12:45:26 PM
Merited by hazenyc (2)
 #118

<...>

indeed, inveting is not always guaranteed to make great returns over the longer run if one makes bad decisions
though if managing risk and being responsible the possiblity of a positive outcome is much higher than with gambling.

it's also much harder to find an edge while gambling than on investing.
As long as we can get the right investment, we can make a profit in the future. But we need to know how to manage the risk or select the investment to get a positive result. The fine line between investment and gambling can confuse people because if they do not research more about both things, they can gamble with their money which does not give them the profit.

Maybe the benefit of gambling is we can feel relax and have fun but if we play longer, that can make us lose money. At the same time, the investment will give us more return than gambling.

the thing is: there's no fine line, gambling and investing are really different things and should be treated differently.

If a gambler has an investor mindset he can have chances to suceed.
but an investor with a gambler's mindset is faded to loose a lot.

.
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hazenyc
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April 15, 2021, 04:02:41 PM
Merited by Lucasgabd (1)
 #119

<...>

indeed, inveting is not always guaranteed to make great returns over the longer run if one makes bad decisions
though if managing risk and being responsible the possiblity of a positive outcome is much higher than with gambling.

it's also much harder to find an edge while gambling than on investing.
As long as we can get the right investment, we can make a profit in the future. But we need to know how to manage the risk or select the investment to get a positive result. The fine line between investment and gambling can confuse people because if they do not research more about both things, they can gamble with their money which does not give them the profit.

Maybe the benefit of gambling is we can feel relax and have fun but if we play longer, that can make us lose money. At the same time, the investment will give us more return than gambling.

the thing is: there's no fine line, gambling and investing are really different things and should be treated differently.

If a gambler has an investor mindset he can have chances to suceed.
but an investor with a gambler's mindset is faded to loose a lot.


Not necessarily! Look at the guy who gambled on the subprime mortgage crisis back in 2004 - 2006 when he built his position. Not sure about the name, but he became super rich and back at the time bet against all odds. At least in the eyes of many other gurus.

Generally though you are right. Gambling leads to zero in the long run unless you thoroughly deal with risk reward ratios, but not many gamblers do that.

Well said though anyway!

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shield132
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April 15, 2021, 04:13:09 PM
 #120

I have tried both and let me tell you that market investment or trading like they call it is way more dangerous than gambling.A gambling event for example sport game takes time like 90 minute a match and gives you time to reflect while the market changes every minute and if you become addicted you can cause yourself a lot more damage than gambling and this in a very short time.
I agree with you but still, market investment isn't more dangerous but in overall, both of them are because people don't have self-control. If you can't control yourself, you can become alcoholic... There are a lot of examples that we can say if you lack self-control. And highest percentage of people lack self-control in market investment and gambling, that's the problem, not the actual product/services. When one loses, then he/she gets anxious and thinks in a bad way, their state of mind is very different from normal one and in this case they may do the things that they wouldn't do in normal cases.

There should be both of them legal or illegal, otherwise, it's just distinguished.


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