Are "Work Ethics" & "American Dream" a way to keep people working hard?

[charlesmichel1]

Are any of these dogmas valid in developed countries nowadays? Is it better to interpret it as working for yourself rather than making effort to advance other people´s agenda?

Maybe you are right, but I can't 100% agree. Some people are gifted liders, while the others are good doers. Working for oneself won't be suitable for all of us.

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[AicecreaME]

In short, I think what OP meant was working hard vs. working smart. People who belongs to hardworking are those people who works for money, and the latter are those people who makes money works for them. Is there any difference? the answer is YES.

If you're the type of person who works for money, you'll never achieve any big goals in your time in which you could still work pretty good, so the ending is that you'll only achieve one average goal when you're already in your 50's, which is pretty bad. Unlike if you work smart, you could achieve a lot of things and when you're in your retirement age, you'll only be in your 40's sipping on your glass of wine in your own private resort.

[paxmao]

- If you do not work you are not a good person.
- Since work is good, the more you do the better.
- Working is the natural order of life and what "God wants". If you do not work you are "a sinner". (see here "protestant work ethic").

These things aren't very relevant today and haven't been relevant for quite some time already, as the influence of religion is waning, especially in the Western world.
...

While the religious aspect of this line of thinking has faded, although you may want to take a look at how live these are in some regions such as the Bible Belt, the cultural aspect remains. In a way, it is similar to some Muslim countries and particularly some cities in which people are just moderately religious or none at all but women will still wear a hijab.

The origin was religious, the support came from those who would benefit from social order, social immobility and having others "work hard". The thinking is culturally still there and the support is still coming from the same groups.

[pinggoki]

Actually work ethics is the way of having the proper work etiquette in everytime that we are working with our colleagues in which it will help us to have a proper team work inside the job. The thing that the American dream is that whenever you work hard and put all of your effort that's already enough for you to be successful someday but the thing that we need to consider is that we need tk strive high in order for us to be more successful someday.

[Mauser]

Actually work ethics is the way of having the proper work etiquette in everytime that we are working with our colleagues in which it will help us to have a proper team work inside the job. The thing that the American dream is that whenever you work hard and put all of your effort that's already enough for you to be successful someday but the thing that we need to consider is that we need tk strive high in order for us to be more successful someday.

For me the American dream was always that you could make it from a dishwasher to a millionaire if you work hard enough. But is this still the case? I noticed that the living cost rose much faster than salaries over the last 10 years. Would 1 million USD be enough to  be rich and have made it in life? Definitely not in my country. In my city for example, you get a 100m2 apartment for 1 million. So while you are a millionaire on paper it won't be enough.

[Poker Player]

I'd disagree. My politics are some way left of centre, but I'd say that the question of whether work 'dignifies' or 'enslaves' depends entirely on the nature and conditions of the work, and the associated reward... and has nothing to do with the concept of work itself. Let's take the example of Amazon drivers who are paid a pittance, and have to work so frenetically that they can't even get toilet breaks, and are reduced to defecating into bags in their vehicles... and then chastised for doing so. The work is "delivery driver". In this instance, it does not dignify the worker, it's enslaves/shames/humiliates them. This has nothing to do with being a delivery driver, and everything to do with the exploitative and inhumane practices of the employer. It's perfectly possible to pay people a decent wage and give them decent working conditions (especially when you're the richest person in the world), it's just that many companies and the governments who enable them have no wish to do so.

Well, I don't know what political ideology I have, because it is not defined and is open to change. Let's say that at present, for moral issues I am more left-wing and for economic issues more right-wing.

What I don't like about leftist ideologies is that what they sell is the victim mentality.

The example you give of Amazon is certainly not a dignifying job but that is far from the norm today. Nowadays, a worker is more master of his destiny than ever. We are not in the Middle Ages where peasants had no choice but to work in semi-slavery conditions for the feudal lord. Or think of the peasants of Ireland working for the English Landlors, or the beginning of the industrial revolution. Today, in historical terms, workers work better and live better than ever before in history.

The Amazon worker can try to organize with co-workers or unions to get better working conditions, can try to get another job, or do other work in their free time (e.g. online) to save and have a cushion to allow them peace of mind when making decisions. He could, for example, have bought $10 worth of bitcoin a week for the last 5 years, etc.

So, he is not a victim. His future, although not 100%, is in his hands. Surely he has had fewer advantages in this life than someone born into a wealthy and well-connected family, but he is not a victim. His future depends largely on his choices.

I for one do not believe that work in general either diginifies or enslaves, what I do believe is that those who manage to work in something they like live better than those who work as a means to get money.

That's what I was referring to before. The world has advanced precisely because of that. Because there have been people throughout history who have set goals, and done whatever it took to achieve them. When Columbus discovered America (thinking he was going to the Indies) he did not stop to think if what he was doing was enslaving or what. And I assure you that such a long voyage by ship at that time was anything but comfortable.

I heard this particular dialogue from one of my favourite shows recently.

'Everyone knows the secret to success : Work hard like crazy'.

That is similar to this one:

Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working. — Pablo Picasso

He also enjoyed his job.

For me the American dream was always that you could make it from a dishwasher to a millionaire if you work hard enough. But is this still the case? I noticed that the living cost rose much faster than salaries over the last 10 years. Would 1 million USD be enough to  be rich and have made it in life? Definitely not in my country. In my city for example, you get a 100m2 apartment for 1 million. So while you are a millionaire on paper it won't be enough.

It was not so much a question of quantity, of getting a million, as of quality of life. Someone who started out poor, simply by working, could get a house, a car, support his family, vacations, etc. In general, improve their quality of life.

Today, it is still possible, not only in the USA, but in most developed countries. But this conception is also linked to what we have been talking about in this thread: the American dream assumes that the destiny is in your hands and that you are not a victim (to whom a socialist politician has to come to save).

[Gozie51]

Actually work ethics is the way of having the proper work etiquette in everytime that we are working with our colleagues in which it will help us to have a proper team work inside the job. The thing that the American dream is that whenever you work hard and put all of your effort that's already enough for you to be successful someday but the thing that we need to consider is that we need tk strive high in order for us to be more successful someday.

For me the American dream was always that you could make it from a dishwasher to a millionaire if you work hard enough. But is this still the case? I noticed that the living cost rose much faster than salaries over the last 10 years. Would 1 million USD be enough to  be rich and have made it in life? Definitely not in my country. In my city for example, you get a 100m2 apartment for 1 million. So while you are a millionaire on paper it won't be enough.

The difference between America and many countries is that America is highly democratic, things are not just done anyway. The government upholds people's right and sovthey must act appropriately. The government takes care of some many aspects that makes human life comfortable
In America, the poor have access to access loan for opening small business and there are housing that you as poor person can access, there are good roads etc. High level of security and feed back to government incase anything goes wrong for proper planning, this is the American dream built in there governance system. For America, governance is serious business and that is the reason they are serious during elections. Election is to elect set of people to pioneer the affairs of the America economy and society for the next tenure of 4 years.

[uneng]

Is there any other way to achieve the American Dream without working hard through Work Ethics mindset? I don't think so...

People just shouldn't take these terms literally. By working hard you aren't harming yourself physically and psychologically, it just means you are a focused person, who pursue your goals in order to reach a better life status to give more confort to yourself, your family, your community and to honor God for the attributes that were guaranteed you. You are the main benefited in the end, there is nothing about slavery or abuse in working hard. And if you don't, no one will work for you. Maybe a populist government you will give you some pennies (that is slavery), but that is all.

Work ethics is about being disciplined, professional and fulfiling with your promises/deals. Something like this could be smelled as a wrong thing only in a sick society like this one we have nowadays.

[Cling18]

We're all living in different situations. Some people wouldn't survive life without working but that doesn't mean that they're on the wrong path. Some people just don't have a choice but it's about working wise not working hard that could make life better. America has strong government support especially to their poor citizens, unlike other countries that the government is just taking advantage of the poorest of the poor's situation.

[Emitdama]

~~snip

I wish you were right about the worker rights but unfortunately we are at a much more modernize version of the roman republic slavery. Now you may think that it is impossible we could ever be similar, but given those days slaves (who actually worth something) were given housing, wines, chance to marry each other, food, anything basically they would need to survive whereas people today are in responsible for their own well being meaning they are given some paper and told go do whatever we want with it and call it "money" is making things harder and there are much more automation and a lot less people employed, there are so many people and so little jobs so people are afraid of changing their owners, they still do but it is a hard and difficult process and if you are without an owner for too long you starve to death which is why it is not that different.

I may exaggerate a bit but I just do it so you can understand why it is difficult. Plus amazon is trying to block any union deal there is, the current places they have are trying to build an union and they are doing everything to stop it, if they made 90 billion dollars in profit this last 400 days, do you think it is ok for them to try to block unionization? What are they doing in there to make it difficult for unions? I mean if they are so good place they should allow unions as well, but they won't because they are disgusting.

And most of the time they drive all other business around them to bankruptcy so the only good jobs left are amazon jobs because it at least pays more than other places, even if it means you may have to shit in bags once in a while people prefer that so that they won't starve.

[LUCKMCFLY]

This is relative, the logic says that if you work more you should receive more money or payment, sometimes some jobs require you to give at least 8 to 10 hours of work, but the salary you earn is not enough to live well, but to try to cover the most basic needs such as food, services, among others.

When you have a profession in a certain branch, according to the degree of difficulty, the pay is taken into account, for more difficult professions the payment is higher, but if the payment is higher, the schedule is not taken into account, because in the same way it is due meet schedules.

When a job is done, it should pay through the achieved goals, I think that in that aspect everything would improve from the time dedicated to the work as well as the quality and the payment.

[sheenshane]

This is relative, the logic says that if you work more you should receive more money or payment, sometimes some jobs require you to give at least 8 to 10 hours of work, but the salary you earn is not enough to live well, but to try to cover the most basic needs such as food, services, among others.

That's work hard, to spend how many hours in work without even any shortcuts.  The instinct of having another source of income is a must and in the right investment.  Just like my professor once said, "don't work for the money, let your money work for you".

I think the reason why there has to be argued is that someone wasn’t able to get the point.
Working and service are considered synonyms however, they have a big difference if you’re going to observe.

Working is doing something in exchange for your desire and service is doing something to someone or something in favor of yours.
For me, working is a trap.  If you consider your job as one exchange for what you want to get, that’s the reason why you feel what you feel.  But if you know the real purpose of service, you’ll never complain and you will reach the American dream without noticing it.

[MCobian]

We're all living in different situations. Some people wouldn't survive life without working but that doesn't mean that they're on the wrong path. Some people just don't have a choice but it's about working wise not working hard that could make life better. America has strong government support especially to their poor citizens, unlike other countries that the government is just taking advantage of the poorest of the poor's situation.

I agree every country has different situations and also different policies, in some countries it is very difficult to find decent paying work.
I agree that America has a pretty good government in terms of its hiring system, compared to the country where I live. In America more
people bribe to get into good universities, such as the Rick Singer case, which is quite large regarding the bribery case to get into a favorite
university. But in my country people pay more bribes to be able to work. Therefore, every country has different situations and problems.
In the end, the victims were poor people again.

[mu_enrico]

In a capitalistic society that is also competition-driven, people must work to acquire as many capitals as possible to win the battle. This reality will turn off lots of people who are not competitive in nature. Therefore, people need motivation in the form of quotes about working hard, teaching about work ethics, the dream, etc., that are there to "smooth-talk" people and give them hope.

Yep, capitalism is a cruel system, but fair, unlike the opposite side of the spectrum, where your work doesn't mean anything if the supreme leader dislikes you.

[Lorence.xD]

This is relative, the logic says that if you work more you should receive more money or payment, sometimes some jobs require you to give at least 8 to 10 hours of work, but the salary you earn is not enough to live well, but to try to cover the most basic needs such as food, services, among others.

When you have a profession in a certain branch, according to the degree of difficulty, the pay is taken into account, for more difficult professions the payment is higher, but if the payment is higher, the schedule is not taken into account, because in the same way it is due meet schedules.

When a job is done, it should pay through the achieved goals, I think that in that aspect everything would improve from the time dedicated to the work as well as the quality and the payment.

They condition people into thinking that if they work hard enough, they will get more money but that is not the case since there isn't a lot of people that are hardworking that get rich, maybe there are some that are an exception but most of the time, it is not the case. This conditioning is used so the capitalist ruling class is able to exploit human resources with the problem of the people revolting against them.

[Poker Player]

~~snip

I wish you were right about the worker rights but unfortunately we are at a much more modernize version of the roman republic slavery.

What I hear here is the victim mentality I was talking about before. No. There is no slavery because people are free to leave that job and look for another one. And there are many more opportunities nowadays. In Ancient Rome, people din't have computers and cell phones with which they could generate income, or invest.

I may exaggerate a bit but I just do it so you can understand why it is difficult.

Yes you are exaggerating quite a bit, lol.

Plus amazon is trying to block any union deal there is, the current places they have are trying to build an union and they are doing everything to stop it, if they made 90 billion dollars in profit this last 400 days, do you think it is ok for them to try to block unionization? What are they doing in there to make it difficult for unions? I mean if they are so good place they should allow unions as well, but they won't because they are disgusting.

No, I don't agree with those practises, I think the authorities/regulators should do something about it.

[Trinx01]

I feel so unfair on our own country, other countries pay huge money based on how hard they work of a person, unlike on our country wherein most of the hard job we have are not paid enough for their basic needs, just like the construction worker, this kind of job is such a hard job as it uses your physical health.
There are many different works we have all over the world, there are some who say that we have to spend our time first studying so we can have a better life in the future or good career that pays us enough money to survive in our lives. Well this is true but in some cases not, skills and confidence would still be the assets to have better life.

[oHnK]

In short, I think what OP meant was working hard vs. working smart. People who belongs to hardworking are those people who works for money, and the latter are those people who makes money works for them. Is there any difference? the answer is YES.

If you're the type of person who works for money, you'll never achieve any big goals in your time in which you could still work pretty good, so the ending is that you'll only achieve one average goal when you're already in your 50's, which is pretty bad. Unlike if you work smart, you could achieve a lot of things and when you're in your retirement age, you'll only be in your 40's sipping on your glass of wine in your own private resort.

I have very much understood until recently how the rich work and how the common man works.  We can clearly compare the rich to be rich because they work smart.  Likewise, an ordinary person works very hard until his sweat is flowing profusely but he is also not rich because he is not smart in managing his money and how to earn money.  The minister in my country said that the fundamental difference between developed and poor countries lies in the financial literacy of their people.  Because the better the community is able to manage their finances, it will help their country succeed in getting out of the poverty zone.

[electronicash]

the teachings of Muslims is to follow their prophet Muhammad to which he is a merchant. most if not all are actually following his steps which every corner in my country there are stalls owned by Muslims selling just about anything from CDs, cellphones, items of clothing and etc.

the history of the American Dream as far as i know dates back to the time where they redistribute lands in America to those who are willing to migrate and populate America the land of opportunity. Now it evolves just someone who become famous being a rockstar and living the dream.

[sana54210]

-snip

They condition people into thinking that if they work hard enough, they will get more money but that is not the case since there isn't a lot of people that are hardworking that get rich, maybe there are some that are an exception but most of the time, it is not the case. This conditioning is used so the capitalist ruling class is able to exploit human resources with the problem of the people revolting against them.

That's true, a lot of hard working people do not get rich, and then they tell you to be smart and go to college and study and become better, so you do that and when you do that suddenly we are in a world where idiots are saying smart people are ruining the world, and "just because you went to college you can't decide what is going on", and basically all around worse stuff.

The fact is that if the world was run by meritocracy instead of capitalism or communism or any other method which I have to say ALL of them are corrupted, then we could have a decent world. In capitalist nations you work and some business owners get rich and live awesome, in communist nations you work hard and some community part members and president gets rich and you don't. In all nations we have people who get rich while most of the people end up being poor and that's the problem.