Open Transactions Server: Asset/Bond/Commodity/Cryptocoin/Deed/Share/Stock Exch.

[Sage]

I haven't even begun to read every reply in this thread... Sorry.

I just have one question:

Do we have a viable exchange yet?  If so, what's preventing others from moving off the central exchanges?

[1713489996]

1713489996

[1713489996]

1713489996

[markm]

So far people do not seem to have found it viable to run their own Open Transactions client.

As it is a server <-> client system people's decision not to run a client kind of limits the user-base.

The server works, but until there are a number of people acting as market-makers by buying and selling the tokens there is no easy way in and out of the markets; basically each user currently would have to go through whatever it is that such market-makers would have to go through in terms of arranging to have more tokens issued if the number of tokens currently existing is not sufficient to support the volume of trade they wish to conduct.

For example, there are currently only 200 digiBiTCoins issued on the system, because the vaults aka coldwallet in which actual bitcoins have been secured only contain 200 actual bitcoins frozen "forever" so that tokens can be issued representing those "forever frozen" coins. That means only a maximum of 200 bitcoins worth of bitcoin tokens can be traded at any given moment on the server.

In a sense the system suffers so far from its own security: you can have security or you can have convenience, to some extent you have to trade one off against the other. The current server intends to provide basically the definite 100% reserve tokens; it thus obviously cannot, conceptually, itself provide warm or hot wallet, its function is to be the coldest wallet of all, so that its tokens represent coins that have never moved since the tokens were issued and will never move as long as there remains any need or use for tokens that represent cryptocoins.

Warm or hot wallet services are conceptually totally separate services, even if such services were to be operated by the same operator that runs the server. That ensures that even if all hot wallets and all warm wallts were stripped of coins by some theft or hack or act of god or whatever all the tokens nonetheless continue to be full 100% reserve backed by their issuer, which is the frozen-forever-wallet operator.

This structure means that the combined system of token issuer, server, and market-makers (warm and hot wallet operators) operates at more than 100% reserve.

Thus it is maybe not really all that surprising that it is taking time for such a setup to materialise and scale up.

(For example, if people wanted there to be more than 200 tokens that represent bitcoins, how would the token issuer justify tying up more actual bitcoins "forever" in order to issue more such tokens? How is the issuer being compensated so far for having already "tied up", "permanently", 200 coins in order to have already issued 200 bitcoin-tokens? If another 200 tokens were desired, how would the token issuer finance the obtaining of another 200 actual bitcoins and the "permanent freezing" of those bitcoins in "frozen forever" wallets so that 200 more tokens can be issued?

Give it time, I guess...

-MarkM-

[Beetle559]

Would it be possible to have a Bitcoin (or some similar alternative) wallet that automatically issued a token to depositors and was fully auditable by the public?

[marcus_of_augustus]

Would it be possible to have a Bitcoin (or some similar alternative) wallet that automatically issued a token to depositors and was fully auditable by the public?

Yes.

[markm]

That would be very useful for hot-wallet operators.

Right now in addition to the problem of not many people having installed Open Transactions clients there is also the problem of not having any hot-wallet operators. All the tokens I have issued are all based on very-cold-wallet coins, typically coins that are secured on their blockchains by multiple hard-coded checkpoints. Since some of the chains have low difficulty, those checkpoints are an important part of the security of those cold-wallet coins. But market-makers (people who buy and sell the tokens for actual on-chain coins) will want some kind of automation to lower their account-clerk workload in accepting coins into their hot wallets and disbursing coins from their hot wallets.

-MarkM-

[michaelmclees]

I cannot register my nym on either your demo server or digitalis servers.  Is this a problem with me... or your servers?

[SebastianJu]

@markm... Whats the status of your server now? Is there trading going on or is it still too silent? And what about the network? Are there a couple of servers yet?
When i read that this topic started 2011 it probably really needs easy to install clients before OT is becoming a much used exchange.

[prophetx]

is there some kind of GUI i can download for this? i thought i saw some screen shots but i'm not going to spend 1 hour trying to find it... 

thanks in advance

[markm]

I think there is even a QT GUI nowadays, it has taken over the name "Moneychanger" that used to be the name of the test/demo java client, which is now known as OtapiJ. (OT API J).

https://github.com/Open-Transactions/Moneychanger

You need the basic OT itself of course, certainly for the java GUI which is just a front end that uses it, but most likely also for the -QT GUI, which probably is just another front end that uses it.

Basically the java GUI links to the otapi-java library and the QT one probably links to the otapi C++ library.

There are also supposedly iPhone and Android clients that have been coming along nicely lately though not sure either is ready for use yet.

Apparently the -QT GUI is not ready for end-user use yet, more for developers to help test and debug and such.

-MarkM-

[SebastianJu]

Since i didnt get the Testserver to run i tried it again with your server. I found that the problem before was the unix linebreak and that OT cant interprete the format when it has no linebreaks. I thought normally that the way xml is built should allow this anyway.
But i now was able to add the digitalis server. Then i added all coins and trade objects available. I added Digitalis as a trade object too again but dont know how to delete again.

But now im stuck. I created a nym by providing a password. Can i change the username afterwards? I dont really understand the command style. For example checknym. When i use that command it tells me to use --mynym and the id. But what id and in what format? I tried 0, the long code and the name of the nym. Its not working. The same goes for showmarkets. Brackets dont help either.

Are there no ripples traded? I have xrp in my ripple account i dont need and want to sell but the owner doesnt tell me why it doesnt work for me. So i thought maybe i can sell it with OT.

[prophetx]

I think there is even a QT GUI nowadays, it has taken over the name "Moneychanger" that used to be the name of the test/demo java client, which is now known as OtapiJ. (OT API J).

https://github.com/Open-Transactions/Moneychanger

You need the basic OT itself of course, certainly for the java GUI which is just a front end that uses it, but most likely also for the -QT GUI, which probably is just another front end that uses it.

Basically the java GUI links to the otapi-java library and the QT one probably links to the otapi C++ library.

There are also supposedly iPhone and Android clients that have been coming along nicely lately though not sure either is ready for use yet.

Apparently the -QT GUI is not ready for end-user use yet, more for developers to help test and debug and such.

-MarkM-

ok i will check this out this week, thanks

[markm]

The commandline "shell" mode doesn't work I think. Do individual commands from the unix shell, like

opentxs status

or whatever instead of invoking opentx or ot and doing commands from its own prompt.

In ~/.ot is a commandline mode defaults file where you can set your default server and nym, and other things that you probably don't want to default.

Otherwise you need --server and --mynym and so on on the commandline.

-MarkM-

[SebastianJu]

The commandline "shell" mode doesn't work I think. Do individual commands from the unix shell, like

opentxs status

or whatever instead of invoking opentx or ot and doing commands from its own prompt.

In ~/.ot is a commandline mode defaults file where you can set your default server and nym, and other things that you probably don't want to default.

Otherwise you need --server and --mynym and so on on the commandline.

-MarkM-

Some commands work. For example stats, addserver, newnym and so on. But as soon as i have to enter a nym-id or a server-id i dont know what to enter.
For example:

Code:

opentxs> showmarkets
Missing variable: Server. Try adding it as a parameter, like this: --server <SER
VER_ID>
(Or if you prefer, set the default in ~/.ot/command-line-ot.opt)
NOTE: If you DID provide this variable, then the Nym wasn't found.

.
..
...
....
.....

opentxs>

stat shows my nym as "New Nym". And this time i had to enter my password on starting ot too. So the nym is ok i think.

So it seems i have to use it something like showmarkets --server <serverid>
Only thing is, i dont find out how to enter.

I tried:

Code:

showmarkets --server wmY1B8o94PFENzqPVK6wLOLvkog9TvA3GDxZuAMGCpW
showmarkets --server <wmY1B8o94PFENzqPVK6wLOLvkog9TvA3GDxZuAMGCpW>
showmarkets --server 0
showmarkets --server <0>
showmarkets --server <Digitalis>
showmarkets --server Digitalis

It always only shows such errormessages:

Code:

Undefined command: "showmarkets --server Digitalis" -- Try 'list'.

But i dont have a clue what other ID could be meant. Or how i should enter that ID then.

[markm]

Try

Code:

opentxs showmarkets --server wmY1B8o94PFENzqPVK6wLOLvkog9TvA3GDxZuAMGCpW

(I just tried that, it works for me.)

Things like that. opentxs, the subcommand within it you want, and the switches/args.

Just don't even bother staying inside opentx or ot "shell mode", FT isn't even trying to make them work anymore I think, like they are deprecated modes or something.

So just do oneliners that tell opentxs one command you want it to run for you, with whatever args that subcommand needs.

-MarkM-

[SebastianJu]

When i try that in the shell mode it claims the command is unknown. So i tried it outside but there is only a run_opentxs.bat that starts the shell. There is a file opentxs but thats not executable in windows.

I think ill ask in the OT-Thread... the windows-version-creator is there and maybe knows how to run it.

[markm]

Good idea. I don't do Windows and have no desire to do Windows.

-MarkM-

[fellowtraveler]

What happens when you do this:

run_opentxs.bat showmarkets --server wmY1B8o94PFENzqPVK6wLOLvkog9TvA3GDxZuAMGCpW

[SebastianJu]

What happens when you do this:

run_opentxs.bat showmarkets --server wmY1B8o94PFENzqPVK6wLOLvkog9TvA3GDxZuAMGCpW

Then i get this result:

Code:

C:\T_I\Geld\Open-Transactions\scripts>run_opentxs.bat showmarkets --server wmY1B8o94PFENzqPVK6wLOLvkog9TvA3GDxZuAMGCpW


Welcome to Open Transactions -- version 0.89.q



OTCachedKey::GetMasterPassword: Please enter your password.

Passphrase request for: "Loading private key from credential."
(OT) passphrase:

UNKNOWN element type in OTContract::LoadContractXML: notaryProviderContract, value: notaryProviderContract
UNKNOWN element type in OTContract::LoadContractXML: notaryServer, value: notaryServer
Unable to find a server contract to use. Please use the option: --server SERVER_ID
(Where SERVER_ID is the Server's ID. Partial matches ARE accepted.)
Unable to find My Nym. Please use the option:   --mynym USER_ID
(Where USER_ID is the Nym's ID. Partial matches and names are accepted.)

.
..
...
....
.....

opentxs>

The password i entered was correct.

[fellowtraveler]

You need to start with the test data. Only when that is working, do we then take the next step.

The password will be 'test'

[markm]

Also, some servers have the "usage tokens" system enabled, thus will require you to obtain usage tokens" before you can actually do anything on them.

They really ought even to not let you register a nym until you have first made arrangement to have "usage tokens sitting on the server waiting for precisely that nym to try to register...

Any nyms lurking around that would like some free "usage tokens" ?

The idea behind bitNicKeLs was that they would be used to nickel-and-dime people to death, or at least to squeeze a few nickels out of them, so the plan was that eventually the "usage tokens" on the Digitalis server would be sold for bitNicKeLs, but right now, limited time offer, holiday special and all that, a few people lucky enough to get an Open Transactions client for Christmas and get it up and running can get some free...

-MarkM-