Looking for founding members for a more anonymous bitcoin.

[tempt]

I know - you've clicked just to read another stupid, inspiration lacking boomer idea of the 1938th Bitcoin Fork - but this isn't that.

The goal is not to create a bitcoin fork, the goal is to make the current bitcoin eco system anonymous again.
When I joined the Bitcoin community many years ago, it was different. There werent 400 chain-analysis companies and KYC was still not something needed at every exchange when you wanted to exchange $5.

That is where this project comes in. I've created a flow chart to demonstrate what I have in mind.



The founding team includes 2 very competent programmers and me - who will finance everything that is needed.

You are ideally someone who can contribute on the technical side or consult us in general terms how to build this product and make sure it is useable for the whole community without any risk for each participant.

Looking forward to the feedback in this thread - and in private when you want to participate.

Sincerely

Tempt

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[dkbit98]

Privacy is very important thing for me and I am following any project that can improve Bitcoin privacy, but using some new solutions that are probably centralized and controlled by few people is very risky.
I would however need to read more documentation with explanations, not just one image diagram, and I am willing to participate is testing before making any final conclusions.

Getting back to chain-analysis companies, why do you think they won't be able to use them for your project only because you use some monero forked protocol?
I also checked your post history and I don't think you have the right background and ability to make something big like this, but you can prove me wrong.

[tempt]

Privacy is very important thing for me and I am following any project that can improve Bitcoin privacy, but using some new solutions that are probably centralized and controlled by few people is very risky.
I would however need to read more documentation with explanations, not just one image diagram, and I am willing to participate is testing before making any final conclusions.

Getting back to chain-analysis companies, why do you think they won't be able to use them for your project only because you use some monero forked protocol?
I also checked your post history and I don't think you have the right background and ability to make something big like this, but you can prove me wrong.

Exactly, centralized & controlled is a big issue - but WBTC (Wrapped BTC) on ETH also made a good solution with their custodian system, which I think is an excellent solution.
Its true, I've never built a crypto solution, but that is why I am reaching out here and in my private circles to get as much brainpower into the project as I can.

The goal is not to create a bitcoin fork, the goal is to make the current bitcoin eco system anonymous again.

Bitcoin was never anonymous to begin with.

When I joined the Bitcoin community many years ago, it was different. There werent 400 chain-analysis companies and KYC was still not something needed at every exchange when you wanted to exchange $5.

It's enforced by centralized service, not Bitcoin itself.

That is where this project comes in. I've created a flow chart to demonstrate what I have in mind.

Have you seen Liquid Network (which is side-chain network of Bitcoin network)? There are few similarity such as using Confidental Transaction (CT) and controlled by Liquid Network's Watchmen with 11-of-15 multi-sig scheme.

CoinJoin is more preferable than your idea or Liquid network since you have full control over your Bitcoin and also offer some privacy.

Liquid Network afaik works only between 2 Liquid Wallets. CoinJoin is effort & also costs fees. I think that my proposed solution is a new solution that does not exist yet.

[dkbit98]

Exactly, centralized & controlled is a big issue - but WBTC (Wrapped BTC) on ETH also made a good solution with their custodian system, which I think is an excellent solution.

No it's not excellent solution, often times fees are much higher than on real Bitcoin chain and there is no mentioning in your diagram about this wbtc that is also centralized and controlled by some custodians.

[tempt]

Exactly, centralized & controlled is a big issue - but WBTC (Wrapped BTC) on ETH also made a good solution with their custodian system, which I think is an excellent solution.

No it's not excellent solution, often times fees are much higher than on real Bitcoin chain and there is no mentioning in your diagram about this wbtc that is also centralized and controlled by some custodians.

I did not mean we would use WBTC as a custodian, just saying that their solution of custodians holding the BTC is a good solution. Might have expressed myself confusingly.

[tempt]

Liquid Network afaik works only between 2 Liquid Wallets.

Correct.

CoinJoin is effort & also costs fees.

Not much effort is needed, there are user-friendly software such as Wasabi Wallet. The fee is relative low.

I think that my proposed solution is a new solution that does not exist yet.

Maybe, but IMO using BTC custodial isn't good solution.

Correct, it is not much effort with wasabi wallet, but it takes time (until the pool is ready) and any effort is more than no effort.

Yea, BTC custodials are never the perfect solution - but the best for wide adoption of anonymity. I know, this is not the prettiest solution out there. It is just one.

[dkbit98]

Correct, it is not much effort with wasabi wallet, but it takes time (until the pool is ready) and any effort is more than no effort.

You can always use Chipmixer if you don't want to wait, you will get real bitcoin without paying any extra fees.
I don't want to trust Bitgo or someone else for keeping my Bitcoin, and I don't want to pay super high fees to move wbtc token on some other chain that can make it even more traceable and less private.

[Insanerman]

You can always use Chipmixer if you don't want to wait, you will get real bitcoin without paying any extra fees.

This is also the first thing that came out in my mind after reading the OP's ideas about creating a much better privacy solution. I don't know this but if you want Bitcoin to improve, you can simply modify the current Bitcoin's back-end which is available in Github - hence you create a Bitcoin fork. And if you want a privacy solution, you either fork it, or make a centralized-like protocol that does the same as what you do when you mix your coins using the existing mixing applications. the "founding members" itself isn't really catchy as it creates an idea that this would be a founded project and would be an independent platform and not really the "aid" for Bitcoin's anonymity.

[DaveF]

I guess the question is why not do it yourself as the end user.
There are a few exchanges out there that allow a fairly decent and allow reliable amount of money in and out per day with no KYC.
I know I have mentioned it in some of the mixers threads:

I have posted it before and I'll say it again.
Mixers are for people too lazy to do something themselves.

Do you want to "mix" your bitcoins. Go ahead it's simple, go to this site and they will do it for you.

Want to do it yourself, yes it's more work but it can be done.
1) Find an open public Wi-Fi
2) Register for an anonymous email account
3) Setup an account with an exchange that has fairly liberal KYC
4) Setup another account with another exchange that has fairly liberal KYC
5) Send coins to 1st exchange, exchange to another coin, send to 2nd exchange, exchange back to BTC, withdraw, done.

If the 1st exchange has XMR or another somewhat anonymous cryptonight coin you can do 2 accounts at the same exchange BTC -> cryptonight -> send to local wallet -> send back to 2nd account at exchange -> withdraw.

Never used a mixer or did the above, never saw any reason to, but it's not that difficult.

Side thought, makes you wonder if some of the exchanges that people say have faked volume are just a bunch of bots doing the above. Doubt it, but you never know.

-Dave

Instead of reinventing the wheel you could probably just make a nice front end API that does this for people.
And as others have said wasabi / whirlpool can also do a good job of anonymizing you coins if you want.

Just my view, not saying I'm right and you are wrong just before you put in a lot of time and effort you might want to consider ways.

-Dave

[pooya87]

Exactly, centralized & controlled is a big issue - but WBTC (Wrapped BTC) on ETH also made a good solution with their custodian system, which I think is an excellent solution.

WBTC is as worse a solution as it gets because not only it is centralized but also it is created and relies upon a centralized and buggy platform.

CoinJoin is effort & also costs fees. I think that my proposed solution is a new solution that does not exist yet.

Your solution also costs fee and possibly even more fees because there are 2 on-chain transactions and also a middle man (you?) in the middle of all this who would require additional commission for the service they provide.

A better solution, in my opinion, would be using Monero itself instead of a new altcoin that is not used for anything else and let anyone join that pool where they exchange bitcoin for XMR and can either hold XMR if they wanted to or exchange it back to bitcoin and get that new bitcoin out from bitcoin pool.
This is something that people already do but use swap services that is not a perfect solution because it is still centralized and the site they use could keep a record.

[Kong Hey Pakboy]

This is a really good idea but considering that businesses are going in the market, I think that bitcoin becoming less anonymous is going to be inevitable in the future. I actually like the idea but again the businesses has taken over and the people in the upper echelon needs them to comply with KYC.

[desmodiAN]

Not needed, xmr and zec existing. dont see any vital advantage of your idea. instead i need to trust those offchain things etc.
no way.

[ionbb]

If you need a design for this project, DM me.
I'm interested to help out, sounds like an interesting project.

[arabspaceship123]

It's good to review contributions for Bitcoin. If you're basing it around privacy it's not a priority because of existing options. You've got a team with founding members so I'm going to keep a watch on the thread. Good luck.

I know - you've clicked just to read another stupid, inspiration lacking boomer idea of the 1938th Bitcoin Fork - but this isn't that.

The goal is not to create a bitcoin fork, the goal is to make the current bitcoin eco system anonymous again.
When I joined the Bitcoin community many years ago, it was different. There werent 400 chain-analysis companies and KYC was still not something needed at every exchange when you wanted to exchange $5.

That is where this project comes in. I've created a flow chart to demonstrate what I have in mind.



The founding team includes 2 very competent programmers and me - who will finance everything that is needed.

You are ideally someone who can contribute on the technical side or consult us in general terms how to build this product and make sure it is useable for the whole community without any risk for each participant.

Looking forward to the feedback in this thread - and in private when you want to participate.

Sincerely

Tempt