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Author Topic: Mixing your Bitcoin might become illegal in the future  (Read 851 times)
Abiky (OP)
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May 07, 2021, 07:25:35 PM
#1

The recent popularity of Bitcoin has brought the attention of governments and central banks worldwide. We've seen certain opposition from countries like India, China, and Russia against the pioneer cryptocurrency. Countries that are friendly towards Bitcoin (like the US and UK), are constantly surveilling its citizens for any suspicious activity. I've seen that some countries have taken action against Bitcoin mixing services with the excuse that they're used for money laundering and terrorist financing. Since most (if not all) of these centralized mixers don't comply with KYC/AML regulations, they're subject to being shut down by the government. Imagine if criminals begin using Bitcoin mixers in mass for money laundering purposes. If the trend continues, mixing Bitcoin may turn out to become illegal.

Do you think there's a possibility this will happen in the future? If not, why? What do you think will happen once mixers (both custodial and non-custodial) are banned by the government? Will this force people to use privacy coins more thoroughly? Or will everything remain the same? Any input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance Smiley

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May 07, 2021, 08:25:40 PM
#2

The recent popularity of Bitcoin has brought the attention of governments and central banks worldwide. We've seen certain opposition from countries like India, China, and Russia against the pioneer cryptocurrency. Countries that are friendly towards Bitcoin (like the US and UK), are constantly surveilling its citizens for any suspicious activity. I've seen that some countries have taken action against Bitcoin mixing services with the excuse that they're used for money laundering and terrorist financing. Since most (if not all) of these centralized mixers don't comply with KYC/AML regulations, they're subject to being shut down by the government. Imagine if criminals begin using Bitcoin mixers in mass for money laundering purposes. If the trend continues, mixing Bitcoin may turn out to become illegal.

Do you think there's a possibility this will happen in the future? If not, why? What do you think will happen once mixers (both custodial and non-custodial) are banned by the government? Will this force people to use privacy coins more thoroughly? Or will everything remain the same? Any input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance Smiley

Bitcoin mixers have one job: To disguise the original source of Bitcoin funds. While the medium (Bitcoin) is new, this is the very definition of money laundering. I don't know of a single good reason to use a mixing service, other than to try to hide ill gotten gains, although I'm sure someone will come up with an excuse or two. If the government actually cared enough to look that deeply into peoples finances, it is likely they would come to the same conclusion already, however the vast majority of people using these services are doing it with such small amounts that they will probably get ignored. They'll also be ignored, because unless they are moving very large sums around and converting them into fiat, the resources required to piece together such criminal actions will not be worth it to the taxman. It is very likely these sites are already covered by existing anti-money laundering laws, however they can reside in internet grey areas and likely have servers in countries that are a bit more lenient when it comes to finances.

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May 07, 2021, 09:36:03 PM
Merited by LoyceV (20), vapourminer (1), LoyceMobile (1), Poker Player (1)
#3

Bitcoin mixers have one job: To disguise the original source of Bitcoin funds.
Yeah, I do something similar to this with fiat too by withdrawing cash from my bank and preferring to pay in cash in order not to have a traceable history of my funds. Yes, I do this with usual stuff such as grocery shopping. And no, I don't have cannabis or LSD in my grocery store.

While the medium (Bitcoin) is new, this is the very definition of money laundering. I don't know of a single good reason to use a mixing service, other than to try to hide ill gotten gains, although I'm sure someone will come up with an excuse or two.
One very simple "excuse", although it's just a very solid reason: I think we have a human right to privacy and the government doesn't need to know which kind of toilet paper or condoms I like?

If the government actually cared enough to look that deeply into peoples finances, it is likely they would come to the same conclusion already, however the vast majority of people using these services are doing it with such small amounts that they will probably get ignored.
Governments are definitely trying to be as intrusive as possible. They've tried breaking BTC or Monero's code from a privacy point of view, which is alarming in my opinion. This "AML" and "Against terrorism funding" is an excuse - not my reason for using mixers. They're using money laundering and terrorism as an excuse to cancel one of the fundamental human rights I currently supposedly have, although I definitely do not have anything to do with any of those two. Had I been a suspect, it would've been something and I wouldn't have cared if they wanted to find out whether I really am a criminal or not. But considering me a suspect for using mixers and perhaps considering us all suspects for using crypto or mixers from the start is plain stupid.
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May 07, 2021, 10:17:22 PM
#4

The recent popularity of Bitcoin has brought the attention of governments and central banks worldwide. We've seen certain opposition from countries like India, China, and Russia against the pioneer cryptocurrency. Countries that are friendly towards Bitcoin (like the US and UK), are constantly surveilling its citizens for any suspicious activity. I've seen that some countries have taken action against Bitcoin mixing services with the excuse that they're used for money laundering and terrorist financing. Since most (if not all) of these centralized mixers don't comply with KYC/AML regulations, they're subject to being shut down by the government. Imagine if criminals begin using Bitcoin mixers in mass for money laundering purposes. If the trend continues, mixing Bitcoin may turn out to become illegal.

Do you think there's a possibility this will happen in the future? If not, why? What do you think will happen once mixers (both custodial and non-custodial) are banned by the government? Will this force people to use privacy coins more thoroughly? Or will everything remain the same? Any input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance Smiley

This might be a possibility, but there isn't a consensus about this yet. Yes, FATF needs to know the source of the money but there needs to be privacy as well. I honestly find the that whole public blockchain is problematic in the first place and we should have gone towards privacy in the first place.

But that doesn't mean that we should use privacy to avoid regulations. Nor it should be build for that in mind.
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May 07, 2021, 10:21:25 PM
#5

I am from Indian subordinates countries where bitcoin fully prohibited and governments already declared Bitcoin as illegal. But people who use Bitcoin police seized them and put him jail. But I think if Bitcoin might be illegal worldwide (if pretty possible) then a huge amounts of money 💰 loss would be happened worldwide.

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May 07, 2021, 10:43:01 PM
#6

Do you think there's a possibility this will happen in the future? If not, why? What do you think will happen once mixers (both custodial and non-custodial) are banned by the government? Will this force people to use privacy coins more thoroughly? Or will everything remain the same?
It is not a huge surprise that the government will ban any services that would help in maintaining your privacy and mixing services are a target for a long time and some of the BTCitcoin mixers were either forced to shut down (Bestmixer) and some ceased their operation due to fear of retaliation by the government (BitMixer) and we know about cases where the mixers were fined huge amounts (Helix, Coin Ninja).

So it is not a big surprise that  BTCitcoin or any mixing would become illegal in the future and they might even force the exchanges to reject mixed coins and that is the case with privacy coins as well, when legalization kicks in they will force the exchanges to remove privacy coins from their exchanges and we have already seen that initiative in some the exchanges registered in the US.

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May 07, 2021, 10:46:19 PM
#7

Since bitcoin is a highly decentralized currency and the government is trying to regulate its activities, so bitcoin mixing will not survive in the system since it helps to hide the identity of the user by mixing the source of Bitcoin with others making the original identity unknown. The government will not permit such services since it aids money laundering.

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May 07, 2021, 11:11:17 PM
#8

Do you think there's a possibility this will happen in the future? If not, why? What do you think will happen once mixers (both custodial and non-custodial) are banned by the government? Will this force people to use privacy coins more thoroughly? Or will everything remain the same?
It is not a huge surprise that the government will ban any services that would help in maintaining your privacy and mixing services are a target for a long time and some of the BTCitcoin mixers were either forced to shut down (Bestmixer) and some ceased their operation due to fear of retaliation by the government (BitMixer) and we know about cases where the mixers were fined huge amounts (Helix, Coin Ninja).

So it is not a big surprise that  BTCitcoin or any mixing would become illegal in the future and they might even force the exchanges to reject mixed coins and that is the case with privacy coins as well, when legalization kicks in they will force the exchanges to remove privacy coins from their exchanges and we have already seen that initiative in some the exchanges registered in the US.

What traders can do if that will indeed happen is to just exchange their coins to another alt that is more friendly from the government's eyes. And then send it to their wallet. So the address is coming from the exchange itself and not from their original address. I believe there are other ways to preserve your privacy other than using mixers. Because sooner or later, these mixing services will be tagged as negative by regulatory bodies.
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May 08, 2021, 01:07:47 AM
#9

China has already acknowledged Bitcoin, although only as an investment alternative. I'm not so sure if the US or the UK are really friendly toward Bitcoin. It is one thing to just allow it because you cannot stop it anyway and quite another to acknowledge its role and potentials.

There is very high probability that mixers will be banned in the future. But it doesn't mean they will be gone.

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May 08, 2021, 02:52:44 AM
#10

If governments can not shut down all mixers or tumblers, people will use it.

It's your key, it's your bitcoin and you will be able to control your bitcoin transactions. People are fee to use Coin Join transactions and they can trade peer-to-peer or use truly DEX.

Governments can enforce stricter regulations on coin mixing and require exchanges to follow their rules. Exchanges can lock, ban, freeze accounts that have Bitcoin from mixing process.

People can use Bitcoin from mixers, make peer to peer trade to get fiat, and use fiat to buy altcoins. Will governments be able to trace thousand of altcoins and altcoin transactions too? I believe they will out of resources to do that.

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May 08, 2021, 03:27:38 AM
#11

There is very high probability that mixers will be banned in the future. But it doesn't mean they will be gone.
@Darker45 is correct, there will still be people that are going to use mixers and I don't think that people are going to get caught by authorities mixing their coins unless they tell them that they did, that is assuming that the government doesn't have a wiretap on your electronics and tracks all of your movements.

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May 08, 2021, 03:49:21 AM
#12



I believe that one of the foundations of Bitcoin is actually transparency and that is why all transactions ever since the beginning of this coin can be viewed by anybody anytime anywhere there is access to internet. I mean, Satoshi Nakamoto never imagined that Bitcoin should be used by anybody to hide something, much more a tool for money laundering or ill-gotten wealth. This is the reason why already heard of criminals getting convictions as they used Bitcoin for transactions - it is all in there in the blockchain for all to see. When we have nothing to hide there is no need to use mixer to disguise the transaction and this is one big issue with governments. Yes, there is that big possibility that mixing services can be rendered to be illegal and unacceptable. And many mixing service organizations had been shut down by governments on the basis of violating money laundering laws and regulations.

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May 08, 2021, 03:57:26 AM
#13

I am from Indian subordinates countries where bitcoin fully prohibited and governments already declared Bitcoin as illegal. But people who use Bitcoin police seized them and put him jail. But I think if Bitcoin might be illegal worldwide (if pretty possible) then a huge amounts of money 💰 loss would be happened worldwide.
I wonder if in your country there are people who use bitcoins arrested aren't they exchanging bitcoins for fiat then how can the police find people who have bitcoins?
I think all countries ban bitcoin too but there hasn't been a case of bitcoin users being arrested.
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May 08, 2021, 04:07:37 AM
#14

I think governments are going to have a hard time. They can outlaw mixers just like they can outlaw Bitcoin if they want to, but it's another matter if they can make them disappear, which is going to be almost impossible.

There is another post along these lines too, in which a mining pool only accepts transactions from "clean" addresses, unsuccessfully by the looks of it:

MARA Pool mined its first 'clean' block today.


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May 08, 2021, 04:08:49 AM
#15

There is very high probability that mixers will be banned in the future. But it doesn't mean they will be gone.
@Darker45 is correct, there will still be people that are going to use mixers and I don't think that people are going to get caught by authorities mixing their coins unless they tell them that they did, that is assuming that the government doesn't have a wiretap on your electronics and tracks all of your movements.

This will always be a cat and mouse game. Some will probably get caught and some will not. The same goes with the traditional form of money laundry which also involves popular banking institutions. It was made illegal but it is still going on strong until now.

Bitcoin mixing may not necessarily mean money laundering but if it is a process which obliterates the tracks of the funds, it will automatically be suspicious in the eyes of the authorities. If a certain tool wipes out how money is obtained or what kind of transaction it came from, it already raises a flag; it triggers an alarm. If it appears to be an obstruction of law enforcement, then expect that the authorities won't be friendly toward it.

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May 08, 2021, 04:26:51 AM
#16

I don't know if it's even necessary to ban mixers. Money laundering is already illegal and they in the US they really don't need very much evidence to charge you with this. If their intent is to keep track of how people use their money then they will just undermine your privacy by making KYC/AML laws even stricter. We are already seeing in Europe that you need to verify your identity to make online purchases.

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May 08, 2021, 04:35:45 AM
#17

The recent popularity of Bitcoin has brought the attention of governments and central banks worldwide.
There is nothing recent about the (small) popularity of bitcoin and the attention they are giving bitcoin.

Quote
We've seen certain opposition from countries like India, China, and Russia against the pioneer cryptocurrency. Countries that are friendly towards Bitcoin (like the US and UK), are constantly surveilling its citizens for any suspicious activity.
There is no difference between the attitude of any of these governments towards bitcoin, all US, UK, China, Russia and even to some extent India are the same when it comes to bitcoin. They aren't banning it but they don't like it either.

Quote
Since most (if not all) of these centralized mixers don't comply with KYC/AML regulations,
You do realize that KYC is in direct contradiction with mixing, right? That means none of them have anything remotely related to AML/KYC otherwise they wouldn't be called a mixer!

Quote
they're subject to being shut down by the government. Imagine if criminals begin using Bitcoin mixers in mass for money laundering purposes. If the trend continues, mixing Bitcoin may turn out to become illegal.
With that logic banking system must be shut down yesterday since criminals have been using them to launder their money for decades.

Quote
Do you think there's a possibility this will happen in the future? If not, why? What do you think will happen once mixers (both custodial and non-custodial) are banned by the government? Will this force people to use privacy coins more thoroughly? Or will everything remain the same? Any input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance Smiley
Anything centralized can and will be shut down eventually as long as they don't bend to the stupid law and more importantly not pay taxes. That is why more decentralized way of doing everything is being introduced. Such as bitcoin instead of using corrupt banks, DEX instead of CEX, decentralized marketplace instead of centralized, decentralized mixing (eg.  coinjoin) instead of centralized ones,...

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May 08, 2021, 04:53:25 AM
#18

The darkweb is being used for illegal activities.Is the darkweb shutdown by any government?
The Tor browser and Tails OS are the main tools used to access the darkweb.
Are Tor browser and Tails OS shut down by any government?
The question here is HOW the governments can shut down Bitcoin mixing services?Is this even possible?
I don't see how any government in the world can effectively shut down all BTC tumblers,that are used by it's citizens.


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May 08, 2021, 04:58:09 AM
#19

I am from Indian subordinates countries where bitcoin fully prohibited and governments already declared Bitcoin as illegal. But people who use Bitcoin police seized them and put him jail. But I think if Bitcoin might be illegal worldwide (if pretty possible) then a huge amounts of money 💰 loss would be happened worldwide.

I hope is not happen cause im work in this industry maybe india will change his mind if other big country starting adopting crypto as investment or other things

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ethereumhunter
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May 08, 2021, 05:33:03 AM
#20

Do you think there's a possibility this will happen in the future? If not, why? What do you think will happen once mixers (both custodial and non-custodial) are banned by the government? Will this force people to use privacy coins more thoroughly? Or will everything remain the same? Any input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance Smiley
It already happens since the mixer is available and continues to happen in the future, even if the government is trying to interfere or surveilling their citizens for suspicious activity. If that is about money launder, the criminals will find a way out how they can get and use the money without the government knows. The criminals can use the Darkweb to make a transaction, including money laundering or other illegal things because they do not want the government to track them.

But for most people, they will not have a problem seeing that thing and they think that is normal if their government wants to know their activity when they use crypto.

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May 08, 2021, 05:37:59 AM
#21

there was a mixer that had been shut down before so it's very possible to happen again.  cryptocurrencies are almost going to be regulated, it makes sense for them to suspect laundering is done thru mixers. it's just not going to be easy for them to do that though. if they become successful in preventing anyone from creating a mixer then the criminals will resort to the XMR which will make it them harder to trace.

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May 08, 2021, 06:50:54 AM
#22

Bitcoin mixers have one job: To disguise the original source of Bitcoin funds. ... this is the very definition of money laundering.

That is not true. In order to be considered as money laundering, the money must be involved in a crime. If the money is not involved in a crime, then it is not money laundering.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/money_laundering

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May 08, 2021, 07:11:46 AM
#23

Do you think there's a possibility this will happen in the future? If not, why? What do you think will happen once mixers (both custodial and non-custodial) are banned by the government? Will this force people to use privacy coins more thoroughly? Or will everything remain the same? Any input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance Smiley
It already happens since the mixer is available and continues to happen in the future, even if the government is trying to interfere or surveilling their citizens for suspicious activity. If that is about money launder, the criminals will find a way out how they can get and use the money without the government knows. The criminals can use the Darkweb to make a transaction, including money laundering or other illegal things because they do not want the government to track them.

But for most people, they will not have a problem seeing that thing and they think that is normal if their government wants to know their activity when they use crypto.

I'm sure Criminals will find a way to be able to carry out illegal activities, even though in the future mixers will be banned by the government.
One of them can be through Darkweb, actually the number of criminals who commit crimes using a mixer is very small in my opinion. Since
many criminals prefer to use fiat to carry out criminal transactions, it may be because it is easier to use fiat than crypto. So it is not certain
that mixing Bitcoin will become illegal or not in the future, depending on the number of crimes that have occurred in the crypto world.
If the percentage continues to increase, criminals use mixers to commit crimes, there is a possibility that mixers will be banned by the government.


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May 08, 2021, 07:43:59 AM
#24

There is very high probability that mixers will be banned in the future. But it doesn't mean they will be gone.
@Darker45 is correct, there will still be people that are going to use mixers and I don't think that people are going to get caught by authorities mixing their coins unless they tell them that they did, that is assuming that the government doesn't have a wiretap on your electronics and tracks all of your movements.

This will always be a cat and mouse game. Some will probably get caught and some will not. The same goes with the traditional form of money laundry which also involves popular banking institutions. It was made illegal but it is still going on strong until now.

Bitcoin mixing may not necessarily mean money laundering but if it is a process which obliterates the tracks of the funds, it will automatically be suspicious in the eyes of the authorities. If a certain tool wipes out how money is obtained or what kind of transaction it came from, it already raises a flag; it triggers an alarm. If it appears to be an obstruction of law enforcement, then expect that the authorities won't be friendly toward it.
I will bet that this law will only have its fangs reared for about three months because that's the lifespan of implementation in my country. It will be a cat and mouse if they were to really implementat and enforce it no matter what happens but I have doubts with this banning stuff. Look at the Great Firewall of China jumpers, they are still around even if their Internet in China is heavily censored.

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May 08, 2021, 08:23:42 AM
#25

How can they track any transactions using mixers? there are likely more than 10 ways to mix your coins or suspiciously use bitcoin without being noticed. Furthermore, there are services receiving bitcoin in exchange for cash so without any online clue, how can a government put us in jail?

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May 08, 2021, 10:15:15 AM
#26

Do you think there's a possibility this will happen in the future?

There is a high possibility that Mixing Bicoin will be banned by the government under the guise of anti money laundering law. 
What do you think will happen once mixers (both custodial and non-custodial) are banned by the government?

I don't think it had a major effect on the Bitcoin market and I believe regular user won't be affected by the banning of mixer services.

Will this force people to use privacy coins more thoroughly? Or will everything remain the same? Any input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance Smiley

Those who have nothing to hide won't use privacy coins but those who have shady activities will more likely to use privacy coins.

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May 08, 2021, 11:05:54 AM
#27

What do you think will happen once mixers (both custodial and non-custodial) are banned by the government? Will this force people to use privacy coins more thoroughly? Or will everything remain the same? Any input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance Smiley

Only those mixers that allow themselves to be exposed to the reach of the authorities can be banned, and let someone tell me how any government in the world will ban something that is completely out of its reach?

According to what most governments in the world think today, any mixer is basically illegal - but it is also illegal to share copyrighted content and torrents still work - just as it is illegal to sell weapons on the black market, and that market literally blooming. I think that they (the authorities) will try to fight coin mixing in another way - and I think that they will condition the analysis of transactions and every coin they find to have passed through the mixer will be marked tainted.

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May 08, 2021, 11:22:55 AM
#28


Do you think there's a possibility this will happen in the future? If not, why? What do you think will happen once mixers (both custodial and non-custodial) are banned by the government? Will this force people to use privacy coins more thoroughly? Or will everything remain the same? Any input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance Smiley

Well, if Bitcoin keeps having such allegations then there's a possibility that its mixers could become illegal in the future. It's been hard for the government to monitor illegal in this network so certainly, it will be imposed as illegal, it just a matter of time unless the government can pull something to halt illegal operations. I was not so sure what will happen if mixers will get banned but perhaps it will reduce the number of users I guess. Using privacy coins would be an alternative though but the pretty sure government will still do something about it.

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May 08, 2021, 11:37:22 AM
#29

The recent popularity of Bitcoin has brought the attention of governments and central banks worldwide. We've seen certain opposition from countries like India, China, and Russia against the pioneer cryptocurrency. Countries that are friendly towards Bitcoin (like the US and UK), are constantly surveilling its citizens for any suspicious activity. I've seen that some countries have taken action against Bitcoin mixing services with the excuse that they're used for money laundering and terrorist financing. Since most (if not all) of these centralized mixers don't comply with KYC/AML regulations, they're subject to being shut down by the government. Imagine if criminals begin using Bitcoin mixers in mass for money laundering purposes. If the trend continues, mixing Bitcoin may turn out to become illegal.

Do you think there's a possibility this will happen in the future? If not, why? What do you think will happen once mixers (both custodial and non-custodial) are banned by the government? Will this force people to use privacy coins more thoroughly? Or will everything remain the same? Any input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance Smiley
Actually this is one that we are afraid of for too long now , Because Lets admit the fact that While Bitcoin/crypto mixer is really helpful to many of us (We as Not having any bad transactions) but the problem is those who taking advantage of this disguising , They are using the opportunity to Make their dealings and Illegal businesses hide from this Mixer characteristics .
I'm afraid that in the near future , government will do their Best just to prevent people from Mixing coins and will ended for closure of all Mixing businesses in the world.
But i hope this will take into consideration and will only target those who must be banned, But the question is how would the government do such.

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May 08, 2021, 12:05:19 PM
#30

Do you think there's a possibility this will happen in the future? If not, why? What do you think will happen once mixers (both custodial and non-custodial) are banned by the government? Will this force people to use privacy coins more thoroughly? Or will everything remain the same? Any input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance Smiley

They can't really make all mixing illegal in future but they can improve tracking and tracing transactions and freeze coins on exchanges if they want, however that will only result in making better mixers that will have improved mixing.
Bitcoin is public blockchain but privacy is basic human right and Bitcoin mixers will surely evolve and be more decentralized in future, and nobody will be able to do anything about that.
I can imagine future of mixing of Bitcoins inside wallet with other privacy oriented coins that will make it virtually impossible to track anything and there will be no website or central place to shut down.
Chipmixer is doing a great work so far and I would love to see something like Chipmixer 2.0 wallet that would remove the need of using any website (I know about old Chipmixer extension for Electrum wallet).

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May 08, 2021, 12:09:07 PM
#31

I think that they (the authorities) will try to fight coin mixing in another way - and I think that they will condition the analysis of transactions and every coin they find to have passed through the mixer will be marked tainted.
They'll fight mixing and the rich will still mix their coins while the poor will hand out every single little detail about their txs to the government as if that's completely normal. Laws are almost always just for the poor. The rich are always privileged. Just think of how much hassle there is to launch a company and get a profit while billionaires have privileges such as tax exemptions through tax havens. Meanwhile, while we are considered criminals if we ever think of not paying taxes no more, they're in fully legal conditions although they're doing exactly that, lol.

Blockchain analysis is gonna suck if that's what they're going to do. The worst thing is, you can be asked about a transaction they've marked which happened years ago. They'll know you've used a mixer at least once in your past, and they're going to hate it.

Hopefully though, Bitcoin's fungibility will be solved in the mid-term. We need that, before they start acting for real against "tainted" coins.
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May 08, 2021, 12:22:59 PM
#32

Well mixing bitcoin could be Moundy loundry and its clearly against law of many country. in my country bitcoin regulation for trading only no other service allowed Legally except trading or for asset only. and im agree with you mixing bitcoin could be illegal in many states.
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May 08, 2021, 12:43:01 PM
#33

If you want to not worry about being charged of a ridiculous crime, I suggest that you move to my country the Philippines, the laws being implemented don't last long so you don't have to worry about it plus if you aren't a big target, you won't probably be bothered and you can pay police for protections.
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May 08, 2021, 12:56:10 PM
#34

Do you think there's a possibility this will happen in the future? If not, why? What do you think will happen once mixers (both custodial and non-custodial) are banned by the government? Will this force people to use privacy coins more thoroughly? Or will everything remain the same? Any input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance Smiley

How will you be able to stop the bitcoin mixers from operating ? Government can't stop bitcoin mixer service and also they can stop people using these services so making it illegal is not practical. On the other hand, centralized exchanges may delist privacy coins, but privacy coins  will continue to exists on decentralized exchanges and their use cases is very strong. So also don't expect privacy coins to be dead in the future.



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May 08, 2021, 01:22:47 PM
#35

Then make cash illegal too.  Cheesy
How about physical casinos? Thieves also used that service to mix their cash and they will accept it as long as it is a legitimate money and not a counterfeit.
This is just another way to say "we should be in control of your money" or "we should know how much you are keeping".
They want everything to be following taxation which will make them more money for their pockets to be filled and not for the people.

I bet they will use the mixing services for corruption in case people starts paying with Bitcoin.  Grin It takes a thief to catch another thief.

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May 08, 2021, 01:52:57 PM
#36

I think it It's  not happen. Cryptocurrencys are almost used to many companies and It's regulated. A lot of countries are using bitcoin now.I think Government cannot stop bitcoin mixer service.

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May 08, 2021, 02:00:18 PM
#37

Bitcoin mixers have one job: To disguise the original source of Bitcoin funds. ... this is the very definition of money laundering.

That is not true. In order to be considered as money laundering, the money must be involved in a crime. If the money is not involved in a crime, then it is not money laundering.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/money_laundering

You got a point but the thing is how can the person who uses the mixer say that the money is clean and not from money laundering.  Remember he hides the origin of the coin and the government is very suspicious in this kind of activity.  Using a mixer is the same as inviting the government to suspect us of money laundering.  And the government is well aware of this possibility that they may be wasting time investigating transactions that they thought is used in money laundering but ending up wrong.  So they would like to avoid this as much as possible, and the solution is shutting down mixing services.

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May 08, 2021, 02:24:53 PM
#38

Do you think there's a possibility this will happen in the future? If not, why? What do you think will happen once mixers (both custodial and non-custodial) are banned by the government? Will this force people to use privacy coins more thoroughly? Or will everything remain the same?
In the space of decentralization and P2P environment, all the regulations and prohibitions are are least bothered. I believe everything will remain same as of now regardless of whatever stand governments will take in future.

How government will know that I am mixing my coins through onion version of mixing. Tor network based mixing services are already in used widely hence even governments think about regulating mixing services, they will slowly understand and will classify it as a basic and privacy oriented human right. No democratic government will dare to interfere into the privacy of individuals.

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May 08, 2021, 02:35:21 PM
#39

bitcoins popularity is not recent but govt's and banks are already at the chase for bitcoin ever since the btc world began . some years ago there was a restriction for mixers and lots of mixers have taken down but most of them continued normally  . mixers complying for kyc is a silly idea because mixers are meant to mask the users privacy if they are not contented on the anonymity btc has to offer .

What do you think will happen once mixers (both custodial and non-custodial) are banned by the government? Will this force people to use privacy coins more thoroughly? Or will everything remain the same?
the anonymity wont be the same of course if no more mixers but aside from mixer , privacy coins have the same issue like this  . it will be a headache for users that wants extra privacy

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May 08, 2021, 07:53:05 PM
#40

I doubt that governments are interested in regulating what people do with their coins, because it's unrealistic to enforce it, but they can tell exchanges and other services that accept crypto to refuse accepting mixed coins, or demand users to show their inputs before mixing. Or maybe they won't even have to, because exchanges already do chainanalysis and some even ban their users from using CoinJoin.

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May 08, 2021, 08:24:06 PM
#41

I think it will have some adjustment in the future not totally illegal because we need to hide our identity with the help of those mixers. We can't just normally send any huge amount of transactions without using any of those mixers. we will be hunted by those who want to steal our money. In some cases, mixers are much helpful because you become anonymous at some point. You are not just letting others track you freely. I'm sure they won't make any hasty decisions like that, as I said, there are good things about using BTC mixers as well.

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May 08, 2021, 08:31:32 PM
#42

I think it will have some adjustment in the future not totally illegal because we need to hide our identity with the help with those mixers. We can't just normally send any huge amount of transaction without using any of those mixers. we will be hunted by those who want to steal our money. In some cases, mixers are much helpful because you become anonymous at some point. You are not just letting others track you freely. I'm sure they won't make any hasty decision like that, as I said, there are good things in using BTC mixers as well.
^ We want all to become anonymous in crypto, of course for us to have a safety for all cost while holding our crypto asset that will probably scammers will take advantage and the only way that we can hide is using mixer service. But how about if this is frequently used by those scammers too?  To clean up their mess and to have a clean coin leaving without a track to the authorities. Since KYC now is very common, I think in the future, even how we can mix our coin but it always ends up caught by the authority if you have done something stupid.

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May 08, 2021, 08:50:20 PM
#43

Mixers are purposefully being represented as a loophole to get away by doing fraudulent activities and not being caught. But mixers are not responsible for that as they do their work and some of them don't even charge. Mixers may shut down but it is not justice to the users who use it because it is the intention that makes the transaction look suspicious or not, and mixers are so good that they don't even keep track of where the coins are going. If governments will shut down mixers, I think they should go for darknet coins like xmr and dash first.

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May 08, 2021, 10:55:33 PM
#44

Do you think there's a possibility this will happen in the future? If not, why? What do you think will happen once mixers (both custodial and non-custodial) are banned by the government? Will this force people to use privacy coins more thoroughly? Or will everything remain the same? Any input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance Smiley
It already happens since the mixer is available and continues to happen in the future, even if the government is trying to interfere or surveilling their citizens for suspicious activity. If that is about money launder, the criminals will find a way out how they can get and use the money without the government knows. The criminals can use the Darkweb to make a transaction, including money laundering or other illegal things because they do not want the government to track them.

But for most people, they will not have a problem seeing that thing and they think that is normal if their government wants to know their activity when they use crypto.

I'm sure Criminals will find a way to be able to carry out illegal activities, even though in the future mixers will be banned by the government.
One of them can be through Darkweb, actually the number of criminals who commit crimes using a mixer is very small in my opinion. Since
many criminals prefer to use fiat to carry out criminal transactions, it may be because it is easier to use fiat than crypto. So it is not certain
that mixing Bitcoin will become illegal or not in the future, depending on the number of crimes that have occurred in the crypto world.
If the percentage continues to increase, criminals use mixers to commit crimes, there is a possibility that mixers will be banned by the government.
That is for sure because the criminals also update their ways with the latest ways to do the crime without the government still can track or detect their activities. The Darkweb will still be their way to transact with the others because that is like an untouchable way for them and the safest way to make illegal things without the government knows. We can say that the criminals who commit crimes are not many but we do not know the truth because I think the biggest criminals will not show themselves easily and only a few people or criminals will know who they are.

The existence of bitcoin already takes their attention and they also see the benefits of using the crypto for their activities, so I think they like to use the crypto to transact. But we do not know the right number of criminals who use the mixers for their activities.

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May 08, 2021, 11:22:17 PM
#45

It is difficult to know the people who use bitcoin mixers in order to maintain privacy and those who use the mixer to launder money and support terrorism, mixers are under the eyes of governments because they carry this charge in particular, so some good mixers present a document to customers proving that they have mixed Bitcoin and thus they have obtained According to a legal document, they do not use Bitcoin to launder money.
I do not know if governments accept this type of document, but it seems a good solution from my point of view to maintain privacy on the one hand and avoid accusations of money laundering on the other hand.

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May 09, 2021, 04:54:14 AM
#46

Then make cash illegal too.  Cheesy

agree casino also could be possible for mixing coins . which their will send withdrawal request in many address. but its not specific for money laundry unlike mixing coin services . and might be possible somedays casino wallet will using the same address to sending withdrawal request for their
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May 09, 2021, 06:48:16 AM
#47

We will see more strict regulation with every year

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May 09, 2021, 07:18:15 AM
#48

I guess, it's not easy to prohibit the utilization over the internet network, in this case crypto currency. Although many countries ban bitcoin like has happened a few years ago but, who is really capable of that? I guess there is no single country who is able to really ban the utilization if bitcoin or crypto currency as a whole.

This is will happen to bitcoin mixer as well, although all country ban this service but I doubt it will run perfectly. There will be a way that can access the bitcoin mixer platform so as there will be many bitcoin user who will use the platform easily. As for bitcoin is being used as money loundering, I guess it is just FUD.
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May 09, 2021, 11:08:11 AM
#49

Mixing bitcoin for protecting your privacy is totally fine because you just want to don't let anyone to easily trace your transactions to possibility find your real identify. Actually, in my own idea, that's the whole point of bitcoin to protect your privacy. Obviously, some people will abuse it and do money laundry or use this feature for illegal deals such as gun or drugs. That's why the governments and the related organizations will try to make mixing illegal. For example, In my country, some local exchanges can not accept the mixed bitcoins.

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May 09, 2021, 12:05:04 PM
#50

I doubt that governments are interested in regulating what people do with their coins,

Don't doubt.  The government wants full control especially the financial flow of its citizen.  They also wanted to exploit the power of AML to milk individuals of their money.  If the government is not interested then why they implement AML?

because it's unrealistic to enforce it, but they can tell exchanges and other services that accept crypto to refuse accepting mixed coins, or demand users to show their inputs before mixing. Or maybe they won't even have to, because exchanges already do chainanalysis and some even ban their users from using CoinJoin.

They can enforce it on their jurisdiction, but definitely not on the whole world.  Same thing India and other unfriendly countries that imposed ban on Bitcoin, what more on the mixing service that can be controlled since they are a third party company that have an owner and a base of operation.

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May 09, 2021, 12:31:09 PM
#51

We will see more strict regulation with every year

How they are going to regulate the Mixers? Developers can easily build a mixing site in the TOR and there is hardly anything that the FBI or the IRS can do about it. And if somehow they seize the domain and shut it down, the promoters behind the mixer will simply set up another domain offering the same service. "Strict" regulations have their own limits, especially when it comes to cryptocurrency. Once in a while, they may have some success (such as the seizure of BTC-e in 2017), but right now cryptocurrency sector has grown too big for them to enforce their control.



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May 09, 2021, 12:45:01 PM
Merited by bryant.coleman (2)
#52

We will see more strict regulation with every year

How they are going to regulate the Mixers? Developers can easily build a mixing site in the TOR and there is hardly anything that the FBI or the IRS can do about it. And if somehow they seize the domain and shut it down, the promoters behind the mixer will simply set up another domain offering the same service. "Strict" regulations have their own limits, especially when it comes to cryptocurrency. Once in a while, they may have some success (such as the seizure of BTC-e in 2017), but right now cryptocurrency sector has grown too big for them to enforce their control.

They can't regulate it, mixers can be created by a simple script just installed in the server and it could work already. If they ever put down the website, another will be created. Its a wild goose chase. But government can create pose a mixer of their own to watch criminals.

The rumors I've read were that its the mining that is going to be regulated. Coins mined in US, can circulate in US, and coins from Iran can circulate in Iran. That's is what Kevin Olery said which virgin coins will be regulated.


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May 09, 2021, 01:06:07 PM
#53

We cannot stop them if they want bitcoin to become illegal because indeed ever since before they trying to stop the suspicious activity of some enthusiast who use bitcoin in any illegal transaction because of being so untraceable.. For what i know its already banned in some countries because of that reason... So we cannot blame them since this things is really can cause something bad that's why governments is against on it wherein even before.
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May 09, 2021, 01:51:20 PM
#54

The recent popularity of Bitcoin has brought the attention of governments and central banks worldwide. We've seen certain opposition from countries like India, China, and Russia against the pioneer cryptocurrency. Countries that are friendly towards Bitcoin (like the US and UK), are constantly surveilling its citizens for any suspicious activity. I've seen that some countries have taken action against Bitcoin mixing services with the excuse that they're used for money laundering and terrorist financing.
Money laundering or terrorist financing wasn't started with crypto nor will it end with fiat. And for the record these illegal activities should involve huge sums of money which means exchanges wouldn't be their preferred choice as these could subject them to KYC and AML and a money trail.


Since most (if not all) of these centralized mixers don't comply with KYC/AML regulations, they're subject to being shut down by the government. Imagine if criminals begin using Bitcoin mixers in mass for money laundering purposes. If the trend continues, mixing Bitcoin may turn out to become illegal.
Are mixers some sort of registered company, I don't think so which is why I do see any line to separate these by legality.

Do you think there's a possibility this will happen in the future? If not, why? What do you think will happen once mixers (both custodial and non-custodial) are banned by the government? Will this force people to use privacy coins more thoroughly? Or will everything remain the same? Any input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance Smiley
Anyone that needs privacy at its highest level should consider privacy coins and a combination of mixers and btw these banners of mixers won't happen.

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May 09, 2021, 02:04:19 PM
#55

They can't regulate it, mixers can be created by a simple script just installed in the server and it could work already. If they ever put down the website, another will be created. Its a wild goose chase. But government can create pose a mixer of their own to watch criminals.

The rumors I've read were that its the mining that is going to be regulated. Coins mined in US, can circulate in US, and coins from Iran can circulate in Iran. That's is what Kevin Olery said which virgin coins will be regulated.

The last part is also not very practical. The miners are not answerable to the American authorities, especially since >95% of the coins are mined outside the US. Anyone can purchase the fresh coins from miners in China or Iran, or even Venezuela, and use them to fund the mixers. How the Americans are going to prevent this? And how many of the mining pools have KYC activated? Even if KYC is mandatory, will the mining pools in China be willing to give that information to the IRS?



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May 09, 2021, 04:34:58 PM
#56

I doubt that governments are interested in regulating what people do with their coins, because it's unrealistic to enforce it, but they can tell exchanges and other services that accept crypto to refuse accepting mixed coins, or demand users to show their inputs before mixing. Or maybe they won't even have to, because exchanges already do chainanalysis and some even ban their users from using CoinJoin.
Well, governments can enforce the bans on mixers by literally making it illegal for such companies to exist and prosecuting anyone who offers such services. Surely, some companies would still exist and have their customers under such circumstances, but many people will feel discouraged to use something if it's explicitly illegal rather than in the gray area, so introducing such a ban could accomplish some goals. I personally wouldn't care much because I've never used a Bitcoin mixer, but I'm not sure if it's something that should be illegal. I mean, companies do it all the time when they want to hide something, and while offshore schemes are frowned upon (when a company is a part of a company which is in turn owned by a bunch of other companies), they don't seem to be illegal.

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May 09, 2021, 06:14:34 PM
#57

Well, from what I have seen so far, nobody is ready to make use of privacy coins; peopleís choice of coin when it comes to daily transactions has been Bitcoin, then followed by coins like Ethereum and Tron, which are not privacy coins, unless things are going to change now that Bitcoin has a higher fees.

Then Iíd like to add that I havenít seen the need for making use of coin mixers, I do understand that there are lots of people who take their privacy seriously, but most of them are doing shady business and so they are trying to cover up their sources of income so that no one finds out. Most people really donít care about the privacy thing, they just like cryptocurrency and since it makes transactions easy and fast, so they make use of it.

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May 09, 2021, 07:52:43 PM
#58

Well, governments can enforce the bans on mixers by literally making it illegal for such companies to exist and prosecuting anyone who offers such services. Surely, some companies would still exist and have their customers under such circumstances, but many people will feel discouraged to use something if it's explicitly illegal rather than in the gray area, so introducing such a ban could accomplish some goals. I personally wouldn't care much because I've never used a Bitcoin mixer, but I'm not sure if it's something that should be illegal. I mean, companies do it all the time when they want to hide something, and while offshore schemes are frowned upon (when a company is a part of a company which is in turn owned by a bunch of other companies), they don't seem to be illegal.

Mixers are not companies, they are online services that operate without any registrations and don't pay taxes. They wouldn't care much if they were outlawed, they are already hiding from the government, because government would like them to snitch on their users.

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May 09, 2021, 08:26:58 PM
#59

The more governments poke their noses into this topic and try to regulate it with strict restrictive measures, the stronger the demand for anonymous coins that cannot be tracked at all will be. This is logical and I think that this will not happen. Smart people first thoroughly study the issue before making any decisions, especially at such a high level. On the other hand, time passes and while someone is thinking, who else is acting at this time. I do not know how it will be, but I think that governments should act carefully and gently.

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May 09, 2021, 09:30:29 PM
#60

Well, governments can enforce the bans on mixers by literally making it illegal for such companies to exist and prosecuting anyone who offers such services. Surely, some companies would still exist and have their customers under such circumstances, but many people will feel discouraged to use something if it's explicitly illegal rather than in the gray area, so introducing such a ban could accomplish some goals. I personally wouldn't care much because I've never used a Bitcoin mixer, but I'm not sure if it's something that should be illegal. I mean, companies do it all the time when they want to hide something, and while offshore schemes are frowned upon (when a company is a part of a company which is in turn owned by a bunch of other companies), they don't seem to be illegal.

Mixers are not companies, they are online services that operate without any registrations and don't pay taxes. They wouldn't care much if they were outlawed, they are already hiding from the government, because government would like them to snitch on their users.

Well, perhaps that is the reason why there are still mixing services that exist even though some countries are still fighting how to regulate bitcoin by their government which the fact they can't even control it. At some point, the bitcoin mixer service can be used for a good purpose not only in a bad but sometimes due to its feature that can boost your anonymity, this service has been used too in illegal activity. In fact, an illegal activity not only in crypto but also in using fiat.
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May 09, 2021, 09:51:08 PM
#61

The recent popularity of Bitcoin has brought the attention of governments and central banks worldwide. We've seen certain opposition from countries like India, China, and Russia against the pioneer cryptocurrency. Countries that are friendly towards Bitcoin (like the US and UK), are constantly surveilling its citizens for any suspicious activity. I've seen that some countries have taken action against Bitcoin mixing services with the excuse that they're used for money laundering and terrorist financing. Since most (if not all) of these centralized mixers don't comply with KYC/AML regulations, they're subject to being shut down by the government. Imagine if criminals begin using Bitcoin mixers in mass for money laundering purposes. If the trend continues, mixing Bitcoin may turn out to become illegal.

Do you think there's a possibility this will happen in the future? If not, why? What do you think will happen once mixers (both custodial and non-custodial) are banned by the government? Will this force people to use privacy coins more thoroughly? Or will everything remain the same? Any input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance Smiley
This is the first thing that would and I somewhere feel should happen. Believe it or not Cryptocurrency mixers really promote money laundering. Some would argue that it helps in decentralisation and anonymity but with this level of widespread usage of Cryptos, anonymity will be sacrificed to some extent to maintain traceability. Mixers hamper this great feature that Cryptocurrency offers to us. Moreover recent exchange hacks and extortions have also used these Crypto mixers to get past the traceability of authorities. So very soon crypto mixers can be banned completely in many countries if cryptos have to stay.

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May 09, 2021, 09:52:06 PM
#62

Governments want to control, crypto is the way of avoiding it and having some privacy. However, everyone knows that Bitcoin transactions can be traceable and the only way to avoid it is to either create a large number of crypto wallets, don't connect them, use different exchanges, etc. or, the more efficient way - use mixing services.
Simply, the govs want to keep the control they have at the moment, so they'll have to enforce a ban on such services.
I think it's very much a possibility. And not only in countries like Russia, but the US as well, because all this crypto-friendly stuff is bs, they only want us to believe we've gained some freedom here, while the truth is quite different. Don't want to sound paranoid, but it's just the way things are.
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May 10, 2021, 01:21:21 AM
#63

Yes from start we are not sure that bitcoin will play big role in our business. Bitcoin has been a scary project for us to hold because of different type of government news and social media effects. Sometimes we sell in panic and the buy at high prices. With more people and organizations taking part in bitcoin now it's looking good future in bitcoin now and every government should make some regulation to understand this mechanism.
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May 10, 2021, 07:55:03 AM
#64

The more governments poke their noses into this topic and try to regulate it with strict restrictive measures, the stronger the demand for anonymous coins that cannot be tracked at all will be. This is logical and I think that this will not happen. Smart people first thoroughly study the issue before making any decisions, especially at such a high level. On the other hand, time passes and while someone is thinking, who else is acting at this time. I do not know how it will be, but I think that governments should act carefully and gently.
Even if the government doesn't, I am sure that there will still be people that are going to build a more anonymous coin than the previous. I think that mixing should be regulated because it is a really useful tool for criminal purposes and I think that if something is more useful to do crimes then that thing shouldn't even exist in the first place.
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May 10, 2021, 08:16:41 AM
#65

The recent popularity of Bitcoin has brought the attention of governments and central banks worldwide. We've seen certain opposition from countries like India, China, and Russia against the pioneer cryptocurrency. Countries that are friendly towards Bitcoin (like the US and UK), are constantly surveilling its citizens for any suspicious activity. I've seen that some countries have taken action against Bitcoin mixing services with the excuse that they're used for money laundering and terrorist financing. Since most (if not all) of these centralized mixers don't comply with KYC/AML regulations, they're subject to being shut down by the government. Imagine if criminals begin using Bitcoin mixers in mass for money laundering purposes. If the trend continues, mixing Bitcoin may turn out to become illegal.

Do you think there's a possibility this will happen in the future? If not, why? What do you think will happen once mixers (both custodial and non-custodial) are banned by the government? Will this force people to use privacy coins more thoroughly? Or will everything remain the same? Any input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance Smiley
this is already expected since then , I might not say that Mixing is not a good business because this helps people a lot .
But the reality speaks , because abuse from syndicates and criminals are into crypto mixing.

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May 10, 2021, 09:21:30 AM
#66

I don't think that this will come any time soon , Mixing company is also being very helpful and we don't know if some government is also using Mixing company for their own country's benefit?

The more governments poke their noses into this topic and try to regulate it with strict restrictive measures, the stronger the demand for anonymous coins that cannot be tracked at all will be. This is logical and I think that this will not happen. Smart people first thoroughly study the issue before making any decisions, especially at such a high level. On the other hand, time passes and while someone is thinking, who else is acting at this time. I do not know how it will be, but I think that governments should act carefully and gently.
Reality talks lol.

People wants privacy and Hope that government will not deny this.

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May 10, 2021, 12:13:46 PM
#67

The recent popularity of Bitcoin has brought the attention of governments and central banks worldwide. We've seen certain opposition from countries like India, China, and Russia against the pioneer cryptocurrency. Countries that are friendly towards Bitcoin (like the US and UK), are constantly surveilling its citizens for any suspicious activity. I've seen that some countries have taken action against Bitcoin mixing services with the excuse that they're used for money laundering and terrorist financing. Since most (if not all) of these centralized mixers don't comply with KYC/AML regulations, they're subject to being shut down by the government. Imagine if criminals begin using Bitcoin mixers in mass for money laundering purposes. If the trend continues, mixing Bitcoin may turn out to become illegal.

Do you think there's a possibility this will happen in the future? If not, why? What do you think will happen once mixers (both custodial and non-custodial) are banned by the government? Will this force people to use privacy coins more thoroughly? Or will everything remain the same? Any input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance Smiley

What will they do about decentralized trading?
Or, for example, I can exchange Bitcoin for RenBTC token, and then exchange RenBTC for Ethereum
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May 10, 2021, 12:49:38 PM
#68

Bitcoin mixers have one job: To disguise the original source of Bitcoin funds.
Yeah, I do something similar to this with fiat too by withdrawing cash from my bank and preferring to pay in cash in order not to have a traceable history of my funds. Yes, I do this with usual stuff such as grocery shopping. And no, I don't have cannabis or LSD in my grocery store.

Cash is the best mixer you can get because although bills are numbered, nobody writes down the numbers when you withdraw from an ATM or when they pay you your wage.
Bills are not connected with your real life ID.

I do the same when I transact. I buy coins with cash and sell them for cash. Then I spend cash in stores. I barely have any money in the bank and my transaction history is non-existent.

Even if mixing becomes illegal in 1 country it will never be illegal worldwide. Mixers will move from one country to another and so will the exchanges.



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May 10, 2021, 01:05:17 PM
#69

The recent popularity of Bitcoin has brought the attention of governments and central banks worldwide. We've seen certain opposition from countries like India, China, and Russia against the pioneer cryptocurrency. Countries that are friendly towards Bitcoin (like the US and UK), are constantly surveilling its citizens for any suspicious activity. I've seen that some countries have taken action against Bitcoin mixing services with the excuse that they're used for money laundering and terrorist financing. Since most (if not all) of these centralized mixers don't comply with KYC/AML regulations, they're subject to being shut down by the government. Imagine if criminals begin using Bitcoin mixers in mass for money laundering purposes. If the trend continues, mixing Bitcoin may turn out to become illegal.

Do you think there's a possibility this will happen in the future? If not, why? What do you think will happen once mixers (both custodial and non-custodial) are banned by the government? Will this force people to use privacy coins more thoroughly? Or will everything remain the same? Any input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance Smiley

I don't really get any of the governments that does crack down on mixers. Let's say they do, well then just switch over to Monero and period. It is a race that governments can't win. With the technologies advancing on a daily basis I don't how they are ever going to be able to stop anonymous transactions from happening.
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May 10, 2021, 01:31:50 PM
#70

If I were the team who were able to found the mixing platform, I think it would be wiser if I kept it a secret, speak with the whales one by one and provide them a private service that will help them with their Bitcoins.

Publishing this actually ruined their very good system as it as now getting a lot of bad impressions and a lot of eyes seeing them as something that has to be stopped.

The only worry the government have with these mixers is that, if this went to a bad hand, this would be very dangerous and it would be hard for them to control the mass.

Finance has been established to control the resources of everyone and of course manipulate it. Having these mixers existence is like, someone is trying to steal some of their market shares that they used to have solo.

Money Laundering would always be there, mixer isnít a new thing and it is as good as great and talented accountants. So I think this will still be kept existing but will soon become private. Possibly that governments will be the one who would host the services like this soon.
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May 10, 2021, 01:51:43 PM
#71

...

Money Laundering would always be there, mixer isnít a new thing and it is as good as great and talented accountants. So I think this will still be kept existing but will soon become private. Possibly that governments will be the one who would host the services like this soon.
And if that be going to happen, then it means that the Government will support laundering as you have said? Coz I don't believe that all people who use mixing services are to find guilty of such illegality and I don't think this could get the interest of the authorities to stop this. They just wanted to keep it untraceable, that is the main reason why using it.

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May 10, 2021, 03:10:00 PM
#72

humans will always do everything so that they can benefit, those who are greedy will mix in bitcoin for money laundering so that their actions are not known by the police.
if the police already know that many money laundering occurs in bitcoin, it will be difficult for bitcoin to develop because the government will monitor the movement of bitcoin so that no more criminal acts occur in bitcoin.
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May 10, 2021, 05:51:20 PM
#73

Never really liked mixers that much, until I realize that it has some good purposes, for example, how do you handle a situation where someone with lots of bitcoins has his/her coin unfairly blacklisted? I think mixer could help in this case.
 I just hope future mixers would be able to  link the data of mixed coins, which should be immutable, to customers unique ID(decentralized/privacy-friendly ID) . The customers can always provide the data when required by the court or law enforcement agencies.
The data has to be Hidden/Private (accessible only to their owners/customers), and Immutable
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May 10, 2021, 08:25:07 PM
#74

Money Laundering would always be there,

If only most countries treated Bitcoin like money. You can't do money laundering if you're mixing something that is not money Cheesy

With money it's much easier to stop you from doing something illegal, but bitcoin is global in the way that it functions in the same form all around the world. Even if most countries ban mixers there will be a place where they can legally function, even if its a third world country.



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May 10, 2021, 09:56:51 PM
#75

The recent popularity of Bitcoin has brought the attention of governments and central banks worldwide. We've seen certain opposition from countries like India, China, and Russia against the pioneer cryptocurrency. Countries that are friendly towards Bitcoin (like the US and UK), are constantly surveilling its citizens for any suspicious activity. I've seen that some countries have taken action against Bitcoin mixing services with the excuse that they're used for money laundering and terrorist financing. Since most (if not all) of these centralized mixers don't comply with KYC/AML regulations, they're subject to being shut down by the government. Imagine if criminals begin using Bitcoin mixers in mass for money laundering purposes. If the trend continues, mixing Bitcoin may turn out to become illegal.

Do you think there's a possibility this will happen in the future? If not, why? What do you think will happen once mixers (both custodial and non-custodial) are banned by the government? Will this force people to use privacy coins more thoroughly? Or will everything remain the same? Any input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance Smiley
As we know governments have always been against this and that is because they want to know every single thing you are doing with your money and they do not like people making an effort of hiding this.

However they are making a false equivalence, they are trying to make it seem as if every single person that is doing that is a criminal and as such they are tying to make the act of mixing your coins illegal, but there are many people that simply do it because they do not want private companies and governments using chain analysis to try to figure out what they are doing with their coins.

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May 10, 2021, 10:30:26 PM
#76

Never really liked mixers that much, until I realize that it has some good purposes, for example, how do you handle a situation where someone with lots of bitcoins has his/her coin unfairly blacklisted? I think mixer could help in this case.
 I just hope future mixers would be able to  link the data of mixed coins, which should be immutable, to customers unique ID(decentralized/privacy-friendly ID) . The customers can always provide the data when required by the court or law enforcement agencies.
The data has to be Hidden/Private (accessible only to their owners/customers), and Immutable

this is why a lot of governments don't like the mixer services. right now, they have no way of extracting more details from their clients so some prefer to shut them down completely. maybe, in the future, if they found a way how to regulate them in such a way they can prove something of ownership in a case to case basis, maybe mixers will thrive. but right now, their one hope is to do business under jurisdictions that are loose with this kind of restriction, which i believe, there's always be a country or area that will willingly accept this kind of business

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May 11, 2021, 02:23:40 AM
#77

Never really liked mixers that much, until I realize that it has some good purposes, for example, how do you handle a situation where someone with lots of bitcoins has his/her coin unfairly blacklisted? I think mixer could help in this case.
 I just hope future mixers would be able to  link the data of mixed coins, which should be immutable, to customers unique ID(decentralized/privacy-friendly ID) . The customers can always provide the data when required by the court or law enforcement agencies.
The data has to be Hidden/Private (accessible only to their owners/customers), and Immutable

this is why a lot of governments don't like the mixer services. right now, they have no way of extracting more details from their clients so some prefer to shut them down completely. maybe, in the future, if they found a way how to regulate them in such a way they can prove something of ownership in a case to case basis, maybe mixers will thrive. but right now, their one hope is to do business under jurisdictions that are loose with this kind of restriction, which i believe, there's always be a country or area that will willingly accept this kind of business

Mixers are fully centralized correct? Could the person operating the mixing service steal the coins at anytime or is there a way for the guys using the mixer to have a layer of security for themselves?
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May 11, 2021, 04:10:56 AM
#78

What will they do about decentralized trading?
Or, for example, I can exchange Bitcoin for RenBTC token, and then exchange RenBTC for Ethereum
Decentralized Tokenized BTC                           
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5288914
Decentralized bitcoin trading                           
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5290331
About "decentralized trading"? Absolutely nothing.
About trading using "centralized tokens"? A lot of things.
For example they could also enforce the same restrictions on the other token including the token itself and the Ether tokens. They can also force the owners of the centralized token or the centralized platform (in this case the ethereum foundation) to freeze or reverse a transaction they deem "illegal" and they would have no choice but to obey.

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May 11, 2021, 06:47:09 AM
Merited by vapourminer (1)
#79

Let's look at it like this.

Money laundering will always be illegal, regardless of fiat or crypto. You're trying to hide dirty money, that's always a crime today in the past and in the future.

But mixing Bitcoin does not equal money laundering and the mere activity of going into a business and making your money trail more private? That can't ever be a crime. Otherwise our regular use of fiat is wrong.

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May 12, 2021, 04:51:51 AM
Merited by vapourminer (1)
#80

Let's look at it like this.

Money laundering will always be illegal, regardless of fiat or crypto. You're trying to hide dirty money, that's always a crime today in the past and in the future.

But mixing Bitcoin does not equal money laundering and the mere activity of going into a business and making your money trail more private? That can't ever be a crime. Otherwise our regular use of fiat is wrong.

It is even understandable that you don't want anyone else to know with whom you are doing business or with whom you are in touch. If you see a doctor and it would be possible to pay with Bitcoin on day, nobody wants that to be stored in the blockchain available for anyone to see and identify you. Even if you just buy a pack of cigarettes or alcohol, there is no point why anyone should be able to fully identify and analyze your behavior.
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May 12, 2021, 08:22:05 AM
#81

Let's look at it like this.

Money laundering will always be illegal, regardless of fiat or crypto. You're trying to hide dirty money, that's always a crime today in the past and in the future.

But mixing Bitcoin does not equal money laundering and the mere activity of going into a business and making your money trail more private? That can't ever be a crime. Otherwise our regular use of fiat is wrong.
The problem with mixing though is that there is no other way for it so it can compromise with authorities, for me I wouldn't risk letting mixers loose knowing that they can be used for crimes like money laundering or tax evasions. Think of it like this, there is a bowl of with 100 M&Ms and around 20 of them are poisonous and will kill you instantly, no way to tell if they are poisonous, I am sure that no one is going to risk taking it unless they are suicidal or have a death wish.

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May 12, 2021, 09:18:48 AM
#82

Yes, this is likely to happen. KYC will become the norm for the crypto industry, licensing (as binance, ownr and others) and other regulatory means.
Well this was expected long time ago, it's just that there are some preventing that happening now but in the end? this will be implemented.

So be ready for the mixing activities because sooner or later you will be needing to present KYC before doing mixing

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May 12, 2021, 05:06:31 PM
Merited by vapourminer (1)
#83

Bitcoin mixers have one job: To disguise the original source of Bitcoin funds. While the medium (Bitcoin) is new, this is the very definition of money laundering. I don't know of a single good reason to use a mixing service, other than to try to hide ill gotten gains, although I'm sure someone will come up with an excuse or two. If the government actually cared enough to look that deeply into peoples finances, it is likely they would come to the same conclusion already, however the vast majority of people using these services are doing it with such small amounts that they will probably get ignored. They'll also be ignored, because unless they are moving very large sums around and converting them into fiat, the resources required to piece together such criminal actions will not be worth it to the taxman. It is very likely these sites are already covered by existing anti-money laundering laws, however they can reside in internet grey areas and likely have servers in countries that are a bit more lenient when it comes to finances.

Mixers have legitimate use cases in the mainstream world. People can use them to preserve privacy in order to prevent other third parties from knowing the account's holdings. Businesses will benefit the most from mixers, as they protect their transaction history from being accessed by malicious actors in cyberspace. Of course, governments don't see it this way. They believe mixers will be solely used for money laundering and tax evasion. We cannot blame them since the majority of people use mixers and privacy-oriented cryptocurrencies for illicit purposes. Considering that most (if not all) mixers don't comply with KYC/AML, governments could shut down them for good in the not-so-distant future. It'll be a much more difficult task to do this with a non-custodial mixer (aka decentralized mixer) though. I guess that governments will hunt down developers of the non-custodial mixer to held them accountable for their actions. With Bitcoin becoming more popular in the mainstream world, mixing will become illegal faster than you could've ever imagined.

Nonetheless, no one knows what will happen in the future. How governments are willing to deal with mixers in the long run is yet to be seen. They could either approve the use of mixers (by forcing KYC/AML) or shut them down for good. In case everything goes down the drain, there's always a "Plan B". Off-chain transactions, privacy-oriented cryptocurrencies (Monero, Zcash, etc.) and non-custodial mixers will help people preserve their anonymity regardless of government regulations. That's because it's practically impossible to take down decentralized services. It shouldn't be long enough before governments admit defeat, giving the "green light" for the growth of the entire crypto/Blockchain industry. Just my thoughts Grin

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May 12, 2021, 06:52:34 PM
#84

Yes, this is likely to happen. KYC will become the norm for the crypto industry, licensing (as binance, ownr and others) and other regulatory means.

It's already the norm. Most exchanges require KYC and what about it?

You can still trade in person, you can still do it using trading groups, you can trade stuff on this forum with no KYC involved. KYC only made it more difficult for newcomers, especially those who value privacy. It did nothing to people who really wanted to trade illegal goods or launder money. They were doing it anonymously outside centralized exchanges before KYC became mandatory.



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May 13, 2021, 05:16:29 PM
#85

It's already the norm. Most exchanges require KYC and what about it?

You can still trade in person, you can still do it using trading groups, you can trade stuff on this forum with no KYC involved. KYC only made it more difficult for newcomers, especially those who value privacy. It did nothing to people who really wanted to trade illegal goods or launder money. They were doing it anonymously outside centralized exchanges before KYC became mandatory.

That's certainly true, mate. Before the rise of crypto exchanges, all trades were conducted in a peer-to-peer manner. Mixing is only necessary when you want to obfuscate your Bitcoin transaction activities on the Blockchain. There are other methods of "anonymizing" your Bitcoin without the need to go through a mixer. The real concern is that once governments declare "mixers" as illegal, they can hunt you down if they suspect you're obfuscating your Bitcoin transactions. It wouldn't be worth "anonymizing" your Bitcoin via other means if you get caught in the long run. This will lead you to face fines or even jail time. Knowing that most people don't care about their privacy, a "mixer ban" will do little to no difference in the pioneer cryptocurrency's mainstream adoption.

Nonetheless, the future of crypto is widely unpredictable. We're going to have to see what happens over time as governments devise new regulations that could either stimulate or stifle the growth of the entire crypto/Blockchain industry. The more Bitcoin becomes popular, the more governments and central banks will see it as a threat to the very existence of the current monetary system. Their excuse will always be that crypto serves as the ideal tool for money laundering and tax evasion. They don't care about the legitimate use cases of crypto since they don't want people to use anything outside of their reach. In order to enforce the use of CBDCs (Central Bank Digital Currencies), governments will need to stifle the growth of crypto as much as possible. Mixers will eventually be declared as "illegal", leading us to wonder what will come up next? Just my opinion Smiley

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