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Author Topic: Mixing your Bitcoin might become illegal in the future  (Read 834 times)
jellylily
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May 29, 2021, 08:07:27 AM
 #101

Just imagine the amount of laundering with fiat money (offshores and other "legal" schemes)... There are evil actors in both sides...
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June 03, 2021, 02:33:01 PM
 #102

There could be more Bitcoin mixers later if the mining regulation will affect the fungibility of the BTC mined from China or from the regulated pools. Mixers will probably go underground.

I'm not sure if mixers will still be effective if the BTC regulations track the origins of the coins before it could get into the exchanges, it could be scary in the end to send your coins when they could just say the coins we own comes out fro the mixers.

There's a huge probability mixers will go underground once they're declared illegal by mainstream governments. Mixing services might operate on the TOR network, or become non-custodial (decentralized) in the long run. In the worse case scenario, people could simply "anonymize" their Bitcoin by exchanging it in-person to a privacy-oriented cryptocurrency like Monero. It's also possible to enjoy privacy in Bitcoin by performing "off-chain" transactions. I believe that governments will eventually give up as their efforts become in vain.

With or without regulations, Bitcoin will be here to stay thanks to its decentralized and censorship-resistant design. Centralized mixing services will have no choice but to enforce KYC/AML or face a full government crackdown. I'm pretty sure they'll go the KYC route, greatly defeating the purpose of a mixer. Just my thoughts Grin

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June 03, 2021, 02:39:36 PM
 #103

The darkweb is being used for illegal activities.Is the darkweb shutdown by any government?
The Tor browser and Tails OS are the main tools used to access the darkweb.
Are Tor browser and Tails OS shut down by any government?
The question here is HOW the governments can shut down Bitcoin mixing services?Is this even possible?
I don't see how any government in the world can effectively shut down all BTC tumblers,that are used by it's citizens.



Correct.  The best they can do is take down a couple of large mixing houses to make an example.  But that doesn't prevent anyone from mixing themselves.
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June 03, 2021, 02:41:29 PM
 #104

I don't agree with this view, even in some countries that support BTC today, they have been used to do something illegal.

It's not illegal to mix bitcoins, but it's important to see what people who own bitcoins are doing. It's not about now or the future

I wouldn't say is not illegal to do it now... Some weeks in the news we read articles like:

Prosecutions of Bitcoin Mixers Raise Crypto Privacy Questions
https://www.law.com/newyorklawjournal/2021/05/17/prosecutions-of-bitcoin-mixers-raise-crypto-privacy-questions/?slreturn=20210503103845

There they explain how the Mixing process goes against the money laundering laws, and that's why it's considered an illegal activity:

Quote
The Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN), the enforcement arm of the U.S. Department of Treasury, considers anyone that transmits a virtual currency that is not a party to the transaction to be a “money transmitter” for the purposes of regulation. Based on this framework, FinCEN defines cryptocurrency mixers as money transmitters, which subject mixers to FinCEN’s anti-money laundering (AML), Bank Secrecy Act (BSA) know-your-customer (KYC) checks, and combating the financing of terrorism (CFT) program requirements that have long been applied to financial entities.

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June 03, 2021, 07:16:27 PM
 #105

The recent popularity of Bitcoin has brought the attention of governments and central banks worldwide. We've seen certain opposition from countries like India, China, and Russia against the pioneer cryptocurrency. Countries that are friendly towards Bitcoin (like the US and UK), are constantly surveilling its citizens for any suspicious activity. I've seen that some countries have taken action against Bitcoin mixing services with the excuse that they're used for money laundering and terrorist financing. Since most (if not all) of these centralized mixers don't comply with KYC/AML regulations, they're subject to being shut down by the government. Imagine if criminals begin using Bitcoin mixers in mass for money laundering purposes. If the trend continues, mixing Bitcoin may turn out to become illegal.

Do you think there's a possibility this will happen in the future? If not, why? What do you think will happen once mixers (both custodial and non-custodial) are banned by the government? Will this force people to use privacy coins more thoroughly? Or will everything remain the same? Any input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance Smiley

I always thought filtering 'acquired' through the XMR network always did a good job of covering tracks. Wouldn't this completely obfuscate the funds if you are exchanging the 'dirty' funds through XMR. I feel as though this works the same as a mixer. Maybe I am looking at this wrong.

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June 03, 2021, 11:19:40 PM
 #106

If it finds legal today, that be going to impossible but it remains legal unless if it was run by illegal mixing sites that the government is on the hunt with these services.
However, the situation might be changing as well. It is to know that some illegal activities are using mixing services to keep them anonymous (at this time). Maybe it was needed for all Bitcoin mixers to ask KYC to everyone uses their services to avoid such a thing and to help the authorities solve the problem otherwise, these mixing platforms will become a part of the conspiracy.


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June 03, 2021, 11:36:35 PM
 #107

I always thought filtering 'acquired' through the XMR network always did a good job of covering tracks. Wouldn't this completely obfuscate the funds if you are exchanging the 'dirty' funds through XMR. I feel as though this works the same as a mixer. Maybe I am looking at this wrong.

You are identified by the exchange when you do BTC->XMR as well as when you do XMR->BTC. If you go through a mixer, then ideally only the mixer can identify you.

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June 08, 2021, 03:10:20 PM
 #108

You are identified by the exchange when you do BTC->XMR as well as when you do XMR->BTC. If you go through a mixer, then ideally only the mixer can identify you.

You can get easily identified with a centralized exchange when trading XMR to BTC. But with decentralized exchanges, atomic swaps, and even in-person trades, that's another story. I'd suggest anyone to stay away from centralized mixing services since they're subject to the risks of a single point of failure. You can easily expose your identity using such services. Not to mention, it's easy enough for governments to shut down a centralized mixer. You're better off using a non-custodial mixer (Wasabi Wallet, Samourai's Whirlpool privacy technique) to obfuscate Bitcoin transactions. I believe such mixers will survive in the long run regardless of governments' stance against them. That's thanks to the decentralized and open source nature of crypto. It wouldn't be possible to overcome government regulations if the whole crypto/Blockchain space was centralized. Just my opinion Smiley

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