Gov must have power to reverse transactions, says co-chair of blockchain caucus

[hatshepsut93]

Sooner or later we'll see a fully compliant shitcoin where FBI or some other agency will hold a master key that would allow them to do whatever they want with transactions and coins. And of course this coin will be advertised as a coin for mass adoption, and I'm pretty sure it will fail just like CBDC will fail, because crypto enthusiasts are not interested in this centralized crap, and regular people are not interested in crypto in general.

[1714877145]

1714877145

[1714877145]

1714877145

[1714877145]

1714877145

[1714877145]

1714877145

[1714877145]

1714877145

[1714877145]

1714877145

[Sithara007]

Bill Foster from the deep blue state of Illinois, representing the Democrat party. No surprises there. The day Joe Biden was elected, I had told my friends that there will be a rise in harassment from the authorities directed towards Bitcoin users. And Boden immediately appointed Janet Yellen as the secretary of the treasury. Yellen and Elizabeth Warren have made repeated threats to cryptocurrency users since the beginning of this year. They can do whatever they want, but so far their actions had zero impact on the growth of Bitcoin adoption.

[o_e_l_e_o]

But i expect newer cryptocurrency which controlled by few company/group wiull have built-in protocol to reverse transaction easily.

The current legacy banking system we have could already be used for that.

We also already have a bunch of shitcoins which can be used for that. Coins like XRP are completely centralized, all stablecoins can be frozen by their creators, and even coins considered "major" alts like Bcash and ETH have had transactions reversed after consensus from the miners.

Sooner or later we'll see a fully compliant shitcoin where FBI or some other agency will hold a master key that would allow them to do whatever they want with transactions and coins. And of course this coin will be advertised as a coin for mass adoption, and I'm pretty sure it will fail just like CBDC will fail, because crypto enthusiasts are not interested in this centralized crap, and regular people are not interested in crypto in general.

I'm pretty sure any and all CBDCs (in the US, at least) will be fully compliant with whatever the FBI wants, including complete power to deanonymize, freeze, reverse, or seize transactions and coins.

[leea-1334]

I agree, there are several major bug within smart contract which causes big loss (such as Parity Wallet vulnerability which lock at least half million ETH). But in the end, ETH community decline to reverse the damage.

But i expect newer cryptocurrency which controlled by few company/group wiull have built-in protocol to reverse transaction easily.

And now that we even have governments who are making CBDCs to have reversible transactions,,, and now in defi you also have certain projects already working to reverse decisions (up to a certain limit in layer 2) I guess this will become the norm. Back in the day immutability was a big thing but I guess practical considerations mean we have to make concessions on some of these traits. Or do we?

[o_e_l_e_o]

Back in the day immutability was a big thing but I guess practical considerations mean we have to make concessions on some of these traits. Or do we?

What practical considerations? What the government sees as practical is not the same as what we see as practical. Bitcoin has functioned just fine for 12 years being immutable, being censorship resistant, being free of third parties, and being decentralized. Obviously the government isn't keen on any of these things, but that's a problem for them, not us. They can rant and rave all they want - at the end of the day, we do not need their permission to continue to use bitcoin as a peer to peer currency as it was designed to be.

If the government want to launch their own centralized shitcoin, taking in to account these "practical considerations", then of course they are free to do so. Just don't expect me to use it.

[Lee_Mire]

It fascinates how desperately some humans want to control other humans. Crypto and blockchain technology is sticking it to these power hungry people, lets hope more tech emerges that completely levels the playing field.

[hatshepsut93]

I'm pretty sure any and all CBDCs (in the US, at least) will be fully compliant with whatever the FBI wants, including complete power to deanonymize, freeze, reverse, or seize transactions and coins.

Of course they will be, but I was thinking more about privately created cryptocurrencies, maybe managed by a company, or even decentralized like the real cryptocurrencies, but with this backdoor for governments. They will try to sell it as a more decentralized alternative to CBDC, though of course it wouldn't matter with this full backdoor.

[Maxine4466]

Back in the day immutability was a big thing but I guess practical considerations mean we have to make concessions on some of these traits. Or do we?

What practical considerations? What the government sees as practical is not the same as what we see as practical. Bitcoin has functioned just fine for 12 years being immutable, being censorship resistant, being free of third parties, and being decentralized. Obviously the government isn't keen on any of these things, but that's a problem for them, not us. They can rant and rave all they want - at the end of the day, we do not need their permission to continue to use bitcoin as a peer to peer currency as it was designed to be.

If the government want to launch their own centralized shitcoin, taking in to account these "practical considerations", then of course they are free to do so. Just don't expect me to use it.

no practical consideration ever exists. there's no reason for governments to have the power to reverse transactions, otherwise one of the best advantages will be destroyed. Governments strive to impose control on people so that they can steal money from them and that's what we definitely refuse to accept! Satoshi gave us the chance to get rid of the control from centralization and we must spare no effort to seize it.
Personally, I love the tamper proof mechanism in blockchain coz I really hate government's judging my action. I live in the shelter of my government in some way so I pay taxes and fulfill my obligation as a citizen and follow the laws it made, that's all I do and I'm willing to do that. Depriving my freedom in crypto world is unforgivable and I will not let that happen! I'm sure folks in this field will do the same and stand with me.

[Wind_FURY]

I agree, there are several major bug within smart contract which causes big loss (such as Parity Wallet vulnerability which lock at least half million ETH). But in the end, ETH community decline to reverse the damage.

But i expect newer cryptocurrency which controlled by few company/group wiull have built-in protocol to reverse transaction easily.

And now that we even have governments who are making CBDCs to have reversible transactions,,, and now in defi you also have certain projects already working to reverse decisions (up to a certain limit in layer 2) I guess this will become the norm. Back in the day immutability was a big thing but I guess practical considerations mean we have to make concessions on some of these traits. Or do we?
 

“Back in the day”? “Was a big thing”? I believe you don’t truly understand, ser. It still remains to be a very big thing. Where do you think Bitcoin’s main value proposition truly comes from?

[PrivacyG]

One thing is certainly known, and it is that you can not stop illegal activity by restricting everyone from using a system the way they want to.  It is extremely stupid to say that banning something slows down criminals.  It is even more stupid to think that anonymity is by default a craving only of the criminal mind.  We all have a moment in which we want privacy, but big words influence minds and this is what governments are doing with the average people now.  It is a mind game where you are falsely taught that looking for privacy means you are becoming a criminal.  Wake the freak up!

In fact, I am convinced such rules actually make MORE people look for ways to avoid the system than prior to the change of rules.  If I was to commit a crime, I would definitely not be scared away by new laws because I knew there are ways out.  There is always a way out if you search long enough for one.

What such laws do is they force everyone to comply and accept the idea that we are all treated as criminals straight from the start.  In consequence, the burden sits onto the regular users rather than the criminals.  The regular users have to comply, the criminals will just avoid.

I know the best days of this world will come when and if people will ever understand that governments only pretend to care about us when the reality is the exact opposite.  They do not care, they just want to take your rights and freedom away from you.

-
Regards,
PrivacyG

[imstillthebest]

Is he telling everyone that if someone is using bitcoin and other cryptocoins, he or she will be a willing participant in a conspiracy to commit crime? I am shaking my head.

judging in his qoute yes he almost says that but he was refering only to anonymous crypto transactions .
 i guess this means if your using a full private coins like monero or your using a mixing service for your btc but not all that does that are criminals right ? . some just like their transactions to be more discreet

The congressman also said that cryptocoins must become compliant with federal regulations and laws for them to ever become mainstream instruments for conducting transactions. Does everyone really want regulations or do those people only want a pump and thought regulations would bring it?

no thanks because cryptos were in their way in the mainstream even without it .
not all loves regulations . we dont need cryptos be like a fiat because they created differently

[o_e_l_e_o]

Of course they will be, but I was thinking more about privately created cryptocurrencies, maybe managed by a company, or even decentralized like the real cryptocurrencies, but with this backdoor for governments.

I would like to say that no one in their right mind would use such a currency, but given that people are already perfectly happy to use centralized bankers' coins like XRP and are perfectly happy giving all their details to centralized exchanges to pass on to the government and let their assets be frozen if the government says so, then unfortunately we both know that that's not the case.

It is a mind game where you are falsely taught that looking for privacy means you are becoming a criminal.

This kind of mindset is a direct attack on the Constitution. Whatever happened to due process? Whatever happened to a fair trail? Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? We have serving members of Congress openly stating that even just looking to maintain your privacy (a right protected by the Fourth Amendment) makes you a criminal, which flies in the face of due process as established in the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments.

If you are to be scared of anyone, be scared of the dinosaurs in power trying to strip away your rights, your liberty, your freedom, and not of the person next door who just doesn't want these same people spying on them.

[maxreish]

When it comes to implementing laws because of the criminal reasons, then this must be something they will push into considerations. But I dont quite understand that they are making this as a big issue and to make it a mainstream transactions?

Afterall, they have to make a wise decisions if they are planning to make another implementations about cryptocurrency.

[nelson4lov]

Not everyone is smart enough to understand cryptocurrency and its technological benefits. Being a congressman, doesn't make you smart! Being a politician, doesn't make you knowledgeable enough to comment on anything. Even in my country, a politician compared bitcoin with ponzi scheme in parliament back in 2017. Stupid pople are everywhere and we must ignore them for our own benefit. This is one of such cases!

Bill Foster is just making a wild assumption while putting everyone in the same basket. The fact that everyone uses and participates in anonymous transactions doesn't mean that they're willing to take part in criminal activities using cryptocurrencies. It's just wrong to make such assumptions as stuffs like these usually boils down to choice. I've experienced something similar to this ~ where the central bank assumed that citizens in the country are using crypto for illegal activities just because they opt for crypto instead of patronizing government products like treasury bills, shares, mutual funds, etc.

[Coin_trader]

When it comes to implementing laws because of the criminal reasons, then this must be something they will push into considerations. But I dont quite understand that they are making this as a big issue and to make it a mainstream transactions?

Afterall, they have to make a wise decisions if they are planning to make another implementations about cryptocurrency.

Because stealing money is not possible for them if they allow Bitcoin and other Decentralized cryptocurrency to become mainstream money. All transaction will be recorded on the blockchain so having an under the table transaction can be easily spot since all transactions from the government needs a documentation. This is my opinion on this issue since they already have a solution on applying tax on crypto.

[cheezcarls]

The government must have the power to reverse transactions? They’re so delusional! They should realize that they can’t control the blockchain themselves. They can only regulate, but not controlling them and it’s not possible to reverse transactions. This is what the blockchain was built in the decentralized world.

[pawanjain]

I am quite sure he would not even have read the bitcoin whitepaper and understood it's fundamentals before making that kind of a statement.
Obviously the government would need the power to reverse the transactions because if they mess up somewhere then they will have to reverse the transactions.
They can simply create private blockchain with a stable coin instead if they want to control it completely.

[PrivacyG]

This kind of mindset is a direct attack on the Constitution. Whatever happened to due process? Whatever happened to a fair trail? Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? We have serving members of Congress openly stating that even just looking to maintain your privacy (a right protected by the Fourth Amendment) makes you a criminal, which flies in the face of due process as established in the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments.

Sadly, they are all gone.  Furthermore, the process of making privacy illegal is seemingly a global attempt rather than just the United States government's.  Innocent until proven guilty has been reversed.  You are guilty of crime until you prove otherwise.

-----

I would like to say that no one in their right mind would use such a currency, but given that people are already perfectly happy to use centralized bankers' coins like XRP and are perfectly happy giving all their details to centralized exchanges to pass on to the government and let their assets be frozen if the government says so, then unfortunately we both know that that's not the case.

Love how you specifically mentioned "would like to".

Most of the gadgets we own and use today have government backdoors inside them.  It is just that they managed to make us all comply to it and subconsciously accept the idea.  Today's fiat system already has a direct access for governments to our personal accounts, so the transition from that to backdoor-enabled currencies will likely be so smooth they will not even feel it.

Convincing a mass of people to stop accepting and supporting backdoors is a difficult task. Even getting Messenger users to move on to Signal is a burden.  Now I will repeat your words..: I would like to think I am just the pessimistic one and things are not as bad as they seem.

-
Regards,
PrivacyG

[Ozero]

Governments always seek to control the world of finance because finance gives them power. So far, the only thing they cannot do is control the cryptocurrency. Of course, people in power will always try to subjugate cryptocurrency. Moreover, they themselves define the concept of crime. However, you cannot provide them with the ability to suspend transactions in cryptocurrency. This is the main feature of the cryptocurrency so far. The confrontation between people in power and cryptocurrency in this regard will be and it will be long. It is difficult to say how all this will end.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Sadly, they are all gone.  Furthermore, the process of making privacy illegal is seemingly a global attempt rather than just the United States government's.

I'm not sure I would say they are gone just yet, but we are certainly heading in that direction, and people's general ambivalence about everything privacy is only hastening this. When you look at revelations from Snowden and things like the 5-, 9-, and 14-eyes, then yes, it is a clear and obvious trend across the Western world, but there is no doubt the US government is leading the way. For all we like to go on about our freedoms and look down on places like China for their lack of said freedoms, most don't realize our government is doing many of the exact same things as China's. But who cares if the government listens to all your conversations if it means you can ask your home assistant to turn the lights off because you are too lazy to stand up and do it yourself, right!?

Convincing a mass of people to stop accepting and supporting backdoors is a difficult task. Even getting Messenger users to move on to Signal is a burden.

It is difficult for sure. Changing your own habits is one thing - leaving social media, stop using Google, Microsoft, Apple products, not completing KYC, using Tor, etc. Convincing other people to start using open source encrypted messaging apps like Signal instead of backdoored WhatsApp is another thing, particularly when all their contacts still use WhatsApp, or whatever. The herd mentality of "nothing to hide" is strong.