Legacy Wallet on Android app?

[nc50lc]

-snip-

Huh.  I actually named the wallet "Non Segwit" and created it to be such, so I'm not sure what happened.  I'll take a second look and try restoring the wallet from the seed phrase, but I'm 99.9% sure it should be non-segwit.  Weird.

Edit:  Nope, I checked the seed phrase and it matches.  That wallet was created as a non-segwit one, and I also noticed that creating a new non-segwit wallet isn't even an option anymore.  Are you sure Electrum would not be able to do that?

On which version did you created the wallet?
Because I'm thinking that this might be what happened if you're using Electrum v4.1.0+: In the "Install wizard", you typed "Non Segwit" as the wallet name due to the intention of creating a legacy Electrum wallet.
After selecting "Standard wallet->Create a new seed", there's no 'seed type' options since it was removed in that version but finished creating the wallet anyways.
Since it's v4.1.0, the created wallet is native SegWit regardless of the "Non Segwit" wallet name.

Perhaps you mistook the option "Standard wallet" as the option to create legacy wallet at that time?
Memory of seeing legacy addresses in the 'Addresses' tab may be a vague memory of you checking your other wallet.

[undefinedd]

I didn't want to create the seed on the PC because it is easier to catch a malware there than on a phone I think, but I don't do anything weird on the PC so I guess I will be fine.

Why not download and verify the desktop version, create a legacy wallet, send the funds there, then immediately send them out to a segwit mobile wallet, if that's where you want your coins to ultimately end up. Wait until the fees are lower to do this though if you are not in a hurry, to save yourself as much as possible on the two transactions.

I can download and verify the desktop version in my current PC, but how can I know that I don't have a keylogger or something like that. Although, if I had one, I probably would have my funds stolen from other sites by now.

Also, what would be the safest way to create a seed for "long storage" (don't plan to use the funds in the near future) beside a hardware wallet? I can format a PC, install Windows from Microsoft, download Electrum for desktop, create the seed, format the pc again. Would that be "enough"?

This all depends. What are you planning to do with the seed phrase once you have created it? Are you making a paper wallet? Do you want to import the seed phrase to a wallet you can access?
You are thinking along the right lines, but you have got some things incorrect. The OS you use should not be Windows, but rather an open source Linux distro. You shouldn't download anything to the computer after you have formatted it - it shouldn't even have an internet connection. You should remove any WiFi hardware and unplug any ethernet cables or similar before you start the process to ensure it is permanently disconnected from the internet. Any software, such as Electrum, should be downloaded and verified on a different device and then transferred to your airgapped device using a USB drive.

After I create the long hodl wallet, I would just delete it from the PC (well, I would format that pc) and just save the mnemonic phrase elsewhere.
Maybe save same public addresses to be able to send money there without having to re-entering the seed in an app again.

I understand the airgapped concept, I just don't have a spare PC. I would do this with my laptop that I don't use much, so I can format it, download app, create seed and format it again without losing anything important (unlike my desktop/primary PC).

[o_e_l_e_o]

I can download and verify the desktop version in my current PC, but how can I know that I don't have a keylogger or something like that.

By formatting. You can run virus scans, malware scans, run in a VM, and all the rest of it, and be pretty sure you are safe, but you will never be 100% sure there is no keylogger. The safest way will be to use an airgapped computer, permanently isolated from the internet, format it, and then install a verified open source OS, verified Electrum, and nothing else.

After I create the long hodl wallet, I would just delete it from the PC (well, I would format that pc) and just save the mnemonic phrase elsewhere.
Maybe save same public addresses to be able to send money there without having to re-entering the seed in an app again.

Yeah, this is a good way of doing it. Make sure you have more than one back up of your seed phrase, as you don't want to lose access to all your coins should you lose or damage that one back up. Also be careful how you restore your seed phrase when you come to spending those coins - again, you should ideally only restore it on an airgapped computer for maximum safety.

I understand the airgapped concept, I just don't have a spare PC. I would do this with my laptop that I don't use much, so I can format it, download app, create seed and format it again without losing anything important (unlike my desktop/primary PC).

That would be fine, provided you stay disconnected from the internet the entire time between the two formats and install your OS and Electrum from clean removable media.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Perhaps you mistook the option "Standard wallet" as the option to create legacy wallet at that time?
Memory of seeing legacy addresses in the 'Addresses' tab may be a vague memory of you checking your other wallet.

No, it wasn't just that I named the wallet "non segwit".  I created it when you still could create the old-school kind of wallet where the addresses all started with a "1", i.e., non-segwit ones.  If there's no other logical explanation, I guess I must have made an error....but as I said, I could swear I looked at that address list after I created the wallet to verify that they weren't segwit addresses.  That's why I still find it strange.

On which version did you created the wallet?

I forget, but I did update the wallet at least once since I created that non-segwit wallet. 

[o_e_l_e_o]

I forget, but I did update the wallet at least once since I created that non-segwit wallet.

Updating Electrum wouldn't have updated the wallet file, though. Not only that, but it couldn't have updated the wallet file without changing the seed phrase, since Electrum generated seed phrases are specific for one type of address and one type of address only. A legacy Electrum seed phrase will never generate a segwit wallet, and vice versa. If the seed phrase you have backed up for that wallet was generated in Electrum (i.e. not a BIP39 seed phrase imported from somewhere else), then whatever type of address it restores now will be the same type of address it generated when first used.

[hosseinimr93]

I guess I must have made an error....but as I said, I could swear I looked at that address list after I created the wallet to verify that they weren't segwit addresses.  That's why I still find it strange.

Just an assumption:
You opened an existing wallet in which all addresses start with 1.
You clicked on "File" and then "New/restore" and created a new segwit wallet.
Now you have two wallets (the one you just created and the one that already existed) open.
For checking the addresses, you looked at the wrong wallet.

[nc50lc]

Perhaps you mistook the option "Standard wallet" as the option to create legacy wallet at that time?
Memory of seeing legacy addresses in the 'Addresses' tab may be a vague memory of you checking your other wallet.

No, it wasn't just that I named the wallet "non segwit".  I created it when you still could create the old-school kind of wallet where the addresses all started with a "1", i.e., non-segwit ones.  If there's no other logical explanation, I guess I must have made an error....but as I said, I could swear I looked at that address list after I created the wallet to verify that they weren't segwit addresses.  That's why I still find it strange.

Okay, there's one instance that it could happen but that's for version <3.3.4 : electrum/issues/5082#issuecomment-461428986
But It won't fix itself to display the correct addresses after an update or next restart.
Try to check some of the addresses i they belong to your master key, open the console (View->Show Console) and type:

Code:

ismine('bc1address')

(including the quotation marks) and if the results are "true", then those are your seed's addresses and there's nothing wrong with the wallet.

Since you can't remember, let's leave it as "human error" because it's not logical to find a bug without enough/accurate info.

[Pmalek]

I have never used the Copay wallet, but what exactly is preventing OP to restore his wallet from seed and ticking the BIP-39 checkbox in Electrum? My guess is a different derivation path. Can't the correct derivation path be found somewhere online or by reaching out to the developers of the wallet?

What about this source for example for the derivation paths?
https://walletsrecovery.org/

[o_e_l_e_o]

I have never used the Copay wallet, but what exactly is preventing OP to restore his wallet from seed and ticking the BIP-39 checkbox in Electrum?

He said in an earlier post that his seed is in a different language, and so it wouldn't restore properly in to Electrum.

I do wonder if he could navigate to the wordlist directory for his desktop version of Electrum and replace the English BIP39 wordlist with the BIP39 wordlist of the necessary language, and then try restoring his seed phrase. Has anyone any experience of this? I'm not at my desktop at the moment otherwise I would just try it myself.

Edit: Actually, now that I think about it, the language shouldn't matter. Electrum only uses the wordlist when generating seed phrases, not when restoring them. OP should be able to restore his seed phrase regardless of the language. Electrum will be unable to confirm the checksum is correct without the wordlist, but that won't prevent him from restoring the wallet.

[ranochigo]

Ok, thanks to both. I guess I will have to download the desktop app. Once I create the wallet and transfer the funds there. Will I be able to transfer the funds in the future, out of that new wallet, using bench32 addresses? Or are those funds stuck to legacy addresses?

I didn't want to create the seed on the PC because it is easier to catch a malware there than on a phone I think, but I don't do anything weird on the PC so I guess I will be fine.

OP, if you really prefer Electrum over other wallets, then you can probably use an older APK to generate a legacy seed. Electrum stores the historical releases here: https://download.electrum.org/4.0.9/. Together with the signatures but I'm not sure how to verify PGP signatures on a mobile with a file. It shouldn't present much risks as long as you can validate the authenticity of a download, certainly more secure than Google Play anyways.

[Pmalek]

Edit: Actually, now that I think about it, the language shouldn't matter. Electrum only uses the wordlist when generating seed phrases, not when restoring them. OP should be able to restore his seed phrase regardless of the language.

With that in mind, he might have not tried to restore his Copay wallet in Electrum properly the first time. That's why it didn't work.

@undefinedd
When you tried to restore your seed in Electrum, did you click on the BIP39 checkbox in the settings menu? After you click on "I already have a seed", you will notice a gear icon above the box where you need to enter your seed. Click on it to get into the settings.

@o_e_l_e_o
What about the derivation path?

[o_e_l_e_o]

@o_e_l_e_o
What about the derivation path?

As far as I am aware, as long as his Copay wallet is not multisig, then it should follow the standard m/44'/0'/0' derivation path, so should restore no problem to Electrum. OP can always use the "Detect Existing Accounts" button if he is unsure.

[HCP]

I downloaded Electrum since is one of the recommended in bitcoin.org, but the problem is I can't recover my wallet from Copay to Electrum because the seed is in another language.

What language is the seed in? You should be able to simply import the seed directly into Electrum, at least the desktop version, to recover your wallet... you'll then be able to send from Electrum to any wallet that you choose.

Choose "I already have a seed", enter the seed, click "options" select BIP39... you'll probably get the "BIP39: unknown wordlist" warning... click next, select "Legacy" (or click "detect accounts")... it should create the wallet with the same addresses as CoPay (assuming your CoPay wallet wasn't a multisig).

I've done some quick tests... and Electrum seems to support BIP39 seeds in any of the languages that the Ian Coleman tool can create seeds in:
- English
- 日本語
- Español
- 中文(简体)
- 中文(繁體)
- Français
- Italiano
- 한국어
- Čeština
- Português

I was able to generate a 12 word seed in ALL of these languages and the addresses created were the same as displayed on the Ian Coleman tool.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Try to check some of the addresses i they belong to your master key, open the console (View->Show Console) and type:

Code:

ismine('bc1address')

(including the quotation marks) and if the results are "true", then those are your seed's addresses and there's nothing wrong with the wallet.

I did that, and the result came back as false.  What does that mean, exactly?

[nc50lc]

Try to check some of the addresses i they belong to your master key, open the console (View->Show Console) and type:

Code:

ismine('bc1address')

(including the quotation marks) and if the results are "true", then those are your seed's addresses and there's nothing wrong with the wallet.

I did that, and the result came back as false.  What does that mean, exactly?

Whoa, that's unexpected.
If the used 'console' tab is from the same wallet where the addresses are copied, then the addresses truly changed,
ismine: "false" means that the address doesn't belong to the wallet or wasn't in the keypool yet.

If you can check all of the 20 "receiving" in the address tab and all result with "false", then there's certainly something wrong with that wallet.
Thankfully, you haven't used it.

Since you're uncertain when you've created the wallet, there wont be enough info to create a bug report in github.

[o_e_l_e_o]

-snip-

Thanks for testing that out. I'm stuck at work on mobile all weekend, and Electrum on mobile only lets you enter words from the BIP39 English wordlist.

Good to know it works as expected though. Since Electrum devs were all about not requiring a fixed wordlist for seed phrases, it makes sense I guess that they wouldn't enforce that on BIP39 seeds either. I've also since found a couple of closed GitHub issues where they confirm that the language does not matter:

https://github.com/spesmilo/electrum/issues/2691
https://github.com/spesmilo/electrum/issues/3552

[The Sceptical Chymist]

I did that, and the result came back as false.  What does that mean, exactly?

Whoa, that's unexpected.

Whoops--I screwed up and didn't enter one of the addresses from the wallet when I used the console, so forget what I wrote.  I just did, and the result came back as true.  The wallet is undoubtedly mine.  Thanks again for the tutelage, though, I appreciate it.  As a lot of people around here already know, I'm a complete moron when it comes to code and computing, so you just taught me something basic (and thanks again for that).

I wonder what happened to that wallet that I swore had the non-segwit addresses in it?  I'm certain I created one before the update that did away with them all, but all evidence points to me remembering things wrongly.  I had the seed phrase written down for the non-segwit wallet, and I've restored it from that phrase, yet all the addresses are segwit ones.  Looks like I didn't see what I thought I was sure I'd seen.  Yikes.

I apologize for derailing this thread with my foolishness but thank everyone who tried to help me out.

[HCP]

... and Electrum on mobile only lets you enter words from the BIP39 English wordlist.

That's good to know... I didn't think to try (actually, I was just too lazy to try because entering the words on the mobile is a pain in the ass! ) creating wallets using non-english BIP39 seeds on the mobile version.

I'll file that piece of info away for future reference

[undefinedd]

Sorry I was away for some days.

As someone already said, I can't import my seed because the phone wallet only allows english words. I don't know why make it like this tho. So yeah, I will have to create another wallet and transfer the funds there.

I didn't want to create the seed on the PC because it is easier to catch a malware there than on a phone I think, but I don't do anything weird on the PC so I guess I will be fine.

Why not download and verify the desktop version, create a legacy wallet, send the funds there, then immediately send them out to a segwit mobile wallet, if that's where you want your coins to ultimately end up. Wait until the fees are lower to do this though if you are not in a hurry, to save yourself as much as possible on the two transactions.

Also, what would be the safest way to create a seed for "long storage" (don't plan to use the funds in the near future) beside a hardware wallet? I can format a PC, install Windows from Microsoft, download Electrum for desktop, create the seed, format the pc again. Would that be "enough"?

This all depends. What are you planning to do with the seed phrase once you have created it? Are you making a paper wallet? Do you want to import the seed phrase to a wallet you can access?
You are thinking along the right lines, but you have got some things incorrect. The OS you use should not be Windows, but rather an open source Linux distro. You shouldn't download anything to the computer after you have formatted it - it shouldn't even have an internet connection. You should remove any WiFi hardware and unplug any ethernet cables or similar before you start the process to ensure it is permanently disconnected from the internet. Any software, such as Electrum, should be downloaded and verified on a different device and then transferred to your airgapped device using a USB drive.

Hey, I got my hand on an old laptop with the plan of making an "airgapped wallet". What open source Linux distro do you recommend? Or any tutorial you can point my at? Thanks!

[BlackHatCoiner]

As someone already said, I can't import my seed because the phone wallet only allows english words. I don't know why make it like this tho. So yeah, I will have to create another wallet and transfer the funds there.

Your seed is a BIP39 one, isn't it?

If you don't want to go with that way, which is not recommended unless you want to save some sats from the transaction fee, you should do the following;

1) Open bip-0039.
2) Open two tabs, one will be the English wordlist and the other your language's wordlist.
3) Find the line of your first word from your language's mnemonic. Then go on that line from the english wordlist. That will be your english word. Redo it for every word.

Example:

(Your language's word)


(The english word of the same position)