Need advice

[Robinson66]

Excuse me I usually want to use Bitcoin to buy things, but using Bitcoin for small transactions will incur a handling fee. Is it not cost-effective to make a small payment? Transaction costs are relatively high. If I use the Lightning Network, will I double spend?What do you recommend? Thanks！

[1714857526]

1714857526

[NeuroticFish]

Excuse me I usually want to use Bitcoin to buy things, but using Bitcoin for small transactions will incur a handling fee. Is it not cost-effective to make a small payment? Transaction costs are relatively high. If I use the Lightning Network, will I double spend?What do you recommend? Thanks！

I cannot advise on LN since I didn't test it out yet, but I can tell that right now the mempool is empty, hence if you want to do "small transactions", the fee should be minimal (1 sat/vByte) if you use a stand alone wallet (Bitcoin core, Electrum, and some others).
If you spend on-chain (normally) I can advise, where possible, to use SegWit (send from bc1* to bc1* addresses) and group transactions (send to multiple recipients in one transaction).
It could also be a good idea to consolidate the funds you have if you know that you have many small inputs, this should help lower the fees for future transactions.

PS. Follow sites like https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#0,24h and https://mempool.space/ before sending and check for the current network fees.

[mocacinno]

I do have some LN experience... And no, using the LN is not double spending...

You can use the LN for micro payments, hundreds of other people are doing it...

[BlackHatCoiner]

If I use the Lightning Network, will I double spend?

Have you understood how the lightning network works? In a nutshell, it is a second layer consisted of nodes which maintain payment channels with funds deposited in multi-sig addresses from participants. Read the basics here: Basics of the Lightning Network.

What do you recommend?

I recommend you to start using it. Then, once you're get used to it, try convincing others to use it too. By spreading it, merchants will sooner or later adopt it.

[Robinson66]

If I use the Lightning Network, will I double spend?

Have you understood how the lightning network works? In a nutshell, it is a second layer consisted of nodes which maintain payment channels with funds deposited in multi-sig addresses from participants. Read the basics here: Basics of the Lightning Network.

What do you recommend?

I recommend you to start using it. Then, once you're get used to it, try convincing others to use it too. By spreading it, merchants will sooner or later adopt it.

Thank you for your suggestion, I am a little worried about double payment. They said they would double the payment. Is it better to use cash instead of Bitcoin for micropayments?

[mocacinno]

--snip--
Thank you for your suggestion, I am a little worried about double payment. They said they would double the payment. Is it better to use cash instead of Bitcoin for micropayments?

Please read my reply... it was only the second one in this thread.

No, you are not double spending when you pay an invoice using the lightning network... The lightning network is in use since a couple of years, i'm running a lightning node since the time you could only run on the testnet chain: you can use it and you will not double spend. I'd even go as far as stating that you could not create a succesfull on-chain confirmed double spend even if you really tried...

That being said, it would be wise to read up before you start using the LN, it's relatively new compared to bitcoin, and i personally find it's tooling not as mature and user-friendly as on-chain wallets.

I don't know who has been feeding you FUD about the LN, but i'd suggest stop listening to him/her.

If you really don't want to use bitcoin for micropayments, you could always switch to litecoin (or a different mature, relatively stable altcoin).

[NeuroticFish]

Thank you for your suggestion, I am a little worried about double payment. They said they would double the payment. Is it better to use cash instead of Bitcoin for micropayments?

1. On Lightning Network there won't be double spend. Just you'll need a learning curve or a wallet that handles LN payments for you.
2. I don't know who are "they".
    * Will somebody request more money just because it's sent over Lightning Network? That's not normal.
    * Or did somebody scare you about Lightning Network? That's misinformation.


My advises are:
* If you are in a hurry, take a look at the current network fees and see if they are good enough for you to send normally today.
* Then learn a little about Lightning Network and try to start using that for micropayments, since that's the whole reason for Lighting Network existence.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Thank you for your suggestion, I am a little worried about double payment. They said they would double the payment.

“Ipsa scientia potestas est.” — Francis Bacon.

You can't double spend bitcoins if you transact through the lightning network just like you can't double spend cash in real life. You should make your own research for everything and let no people manipulate you with their opinions.

Is it better to use cash instead of Bitcoin for micropayments?

Better in what extent? Privacy? Well, obviously, if you pay someone hand-in-hand, you leave no footprints to the internet about that transaction. But, LN makes Bitcoin more private. Your transactions aren't publicly announced and thus, no authority can analyze them for their purposes.

[Bitfort]

Excuse me I usually want to use Bitcoin to buy things, but using Bitcoin for small transactions will incur a handling fee. Is it not cost-effective to make a small payment? Transaction costs are relatively high. If I use the Lightning Network, will I double spend?What do you recommend? Thanks！

Try coinbase.com
If seller has coinbase account you can transfer funds without fees. Check if your favorite shops accepts coinbase payments.

[CryptocurencyKing]

Using bitcoin for payment have been the goal of bitcoin as a currency but, the issue has always been about the fees and having a merchant that actually incorporates bitcoin as a payment media.
Well, I've heard but had practically zero experience with the lightening network, I guess that's due to safety i find in sticking to what I'm familiar with and to avoid complications as, the anonymous nature of the sustained having virtually no support system in place could mean irreversible transactions in a lot of ways and that would mean loses. So, I won't be advising you on anything about the LT network but then, should you wish to pay in cryptos,

For bitcoin, you've got to always consider the depth of the mempool and practically where your transaction would be positioned if initiated. You can know that and its calculated in relation to the fees. Should the fee be fair and the delivery time cool, then by all means you could go ahead with it. Other means I use is also, should the Mempool be congested and I really need to pay in crypto though, it works when you've got your coin on an exchange, you trade BTC fir another alt of equivalent value and then pay with that. Though, it depends on if the alt is valued and accepted in that place or by the merchant.
For me, its usually with the individual I'm transacting with though.

[ROBERT B]

The Lightning Network is OK. I have learned about it for a while and found it to be pretty good. You can try it.

[Pmalek]

There is nothing wrong in using the Lightning Network. You are being mislead by someone or something regarding the double spending issues. The Lightning Network is intended for people who transact with the other party on a more regular basis. It's for multiple transactions, not really the best way to send one transaction and close the channel.

You say you want to buy things. Are you buying your goods from various people and shops, or is if from the same party every time? Multiple parties would require multiple payment channels and multiple on-chain transactions to open and close those gateways. You won't be able to save money in that way.

Someone suggested using Litecoin. That's also an option. Look into USDT on the Tron network or dogecoin as cheap alternatives as well if it doesn't have to be bitcoin. 

[mocacinno]

--snip--
 Multiple parties would require multiple payment channels and multiple on-chain transactions to open and close those gateways. You won't be able to save money in that way.
--snip--

I do have 3 addenda (or is it addendums) to this remark:

• A lot of shops use a payment gateway, if you have an open channel to the lightning node of the payment gateway, you can pay all invoices from all vendors using said gateway without routing them trough other nodes. So it's not exactly 1 shop => 1 channel
• It's also not always necessary to open a new channel to somebody you want to pay, as long as you have other channels open with funds on your side of the channel. As long as there is a valid route between you and the person you're paying, it's fine... Sure, the nodes routing your payment will ask for a very small fee, but looking at my node, the average fee is around ~1 sat... So even if your payment gets routed trough 10 nodes, the final fee will be ~10-20 sat's (much cheaper than an on-chain fee). Do realise this scenario isn't always possible: there isn't always a valid route between your node and the receiver's node, even if you have open channels with funds on your side, your node will figure this out for you if you're trying to pay an invoice...
• Even IF there is no route between you and the vendor (or payment gateway), there is no need to open the channel, pay the invoice and immediately close the channel afterwards... You can leave the channel open for future purchases AND for routing payments for people you don't have a direct open channel with